I note consumerman has not commented on the thread, sometimes, I think it is up to the original poster to reply and also steer the thread to get the answer he/she was looking for. It could be that this thread was just a set up, but assuming it wasn't, then to get the ball weight all you have to do is use a pair of bathroom scales, I was doing this, the brought one of those fancy tow ball weight measuring thingys, and found a 17kg difference in the weights. Haven't used either method since. How ever we do have much useful talent and expertise through the members, lets just ease off, and accept that sometimes the messages get sent wrong, or interpreted wrongly. We just bend a little and except that things can't always be perfect, we wouldn't consume so much popcorn!
-- Edited by iana on Friday 14th of February 2020 05:51:41 PM
aussie_paul said
07:11 PM Feb 14, 2020
iana wrote:
I note consumerman has not commented on the thread, sometimes, I think it is up to the original poster to reply and also steer the thread to get the answer he/she was looking for. It could be that this thread was just a set up, but assuming it wasn't, then to get the ball weight all you have to do is use a pair of bathroom scales, I was doing this, the brought one of those fancy tow ball weight measuring thingys, and found a 17kg difference in the weights. Haven't used either method since. How ever we do have much useful talent and expertise through the members, lets just ease off, and accept that sometimes the messages get sent wrong, or interpreted wrongly. We just bend a little and except that things can't always be perfect, we wouldn't consume so much popcorn!
-- Edited by iana on Friday 14th of February 2020 05:51:41 PM
Aussie Paul.
Brenda and Alan said
10:10 PM Feb 14, 2020
Yobarr I understand perfectly. Cheers.
Alan
outlaw40 said
08:32 AM Feb 15, 2020
And here we go again . just like .....Ground hog day .
Magnarc said
10:40 AM Feb 15, 2020
To weigh hitched or unhitched? Is van level or skewed? Does the AGM have any bearing on the ball weight?.That is the question. Is it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged posters or, by closing the IPad, end them? Could this topic have run its course?? (Apologies to Bill Shakespeare)
Brenda and Alan said
11:03 AM Feb 15, 2020
I am very real.
Cheers.
Alan
montie said
11:45 AM Feb 15, 2020
I'm not surprised the OP has not returned.
His original question regarding ball weight measurement was clearly explained by a number of posters including myself but others have chosen to complicate the issue by introducing unrelated topic and drawing red herrings for the sake of argument. This does not help the OP.
Just to clarify there are only two ways to accurately determine actual ball download...1) Calculate at a weighbridge by weighing the hitched and unhitched van (Tug) or measure it at the coupling. (Measuring at the jockey wheel will not produce an accurate reading).
It is not a complicated issue.
Greg 1 said
11:46 AM Feb 15, 2020
As several have pointed out, the van must be unhitched for the second weight. To leave it hitched up and jack the jockey wheel up as high as it will go would be adding some of the cars weight to the measurement.
Really not suprising that you got a very high towball weight. The scales operator needs to go back to school.
Tow ball weight is important, if not for any other reason than to check that you are not exceeding the ball weight capacity of the tow vehicle. Pajero's towing more than 2500kgs comes to mind.
jontee said
12:47 PM Feb 15, 2020
G`day,
What an entertaining thread !
Cheers,
Jontee
yobarr said
02:34 PM Feb 15, 2020
Magnarc wrote:
To weigh hitched or unhitched? Is van level or skewed? Does the AGM have any bearing on the ball weight?.That is the question. Is it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged posters or, by closing the IPad, end them? Could this topic have run its course?? (Apologies to Bill Shakespeare)
Hi Phil.......If my memory serves me correctly, "....to take arms against a sea of troubles,and,by opposing,end them.To die,to sleep" completes that verse? It is over 50 years since I learnt Hamlet,so that may not be exactly correct? Cheers
Cupie said
03:07 PM Feb 15, 2020
Actual Text from "Hamlet" Act 3, Scene 1
To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause: there's the respect That makes calamity of so long life; For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office and the spurns That patient merit of the unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscover'd country from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of action.--Soft you now! The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons Be all my sins remember'd.
It is a soliloquy, which means that the character is letting the audience know his thoughts at that moment in the play. He is talking to himself, and we are hearing his internal dialogue. He is considering suicide upon learning that his uncle has killed his father and has taken his mother as his consort.
I just knew that you all wanted to know this .... it rounds out the discussion on Tow Ball Weights & everything else.
I think that I will unsubscribe to this thread or just let it go to its rightful place .. my junk folder.
Magnarc said
04:41 PM Feb 15, 2020
Post was not intended to be accurate, just an attempt to bring some levity to the discussion.
Craig1 said
04:53 PM Feb 15, 2020
Thanks Cupie, more than a few quotes are taken from the soliioquay
montie said
07:19 PM Feb 15, 2020
Cupie wrote:
Actual Text from "Hamlet" Act 3, Scene 1
To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause: there's the respect That makes calamity of so long life; For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office and the spurns That patient merit of the unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscover'd country from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of action.--Soft you now! The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons Be all my sins remember'd.
It is a soliloquy, which means that the character is letting the audience know his thoughts at that moment in the play. He is talking to himself, and we are hearing his internal dialogue. He is considering suicide upon learning that his uncle has killed his father and has taken his mother as his consort.
I just knew that you all wanted to know this .... it rounds out the discussion on Tow Ball Weights & everything else.
I think that I will unsubscribe to this thread or just let it go to its rightful place .. my junk folder.
What a load of cobblers!
montie said
07:21 PM Feb 15, 2020
yobarr wrote:
Magnarc wrote:
To weigh hitched or unhitched? Is van level or skewed? Does the AGM have any bearing on the ball weight?.That is the question. Is it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged posters or, by closing the IPad, end them? Could this topic have run its course?? (Apologies to Bill Shakespeare)
Hi Phil.......If my memory serves me correctly, "....to take arms against a sea of troubles,and,by opposing,end them.To die,to sleep" completes that verse? It is over 50 years since I learnt Hamlet,so that may not be exactly correct? Cheers
Your no Shakespeare mate....but keep trying!
montie said
07:09 AM Feb 16, 2020
Somebody in this thread asked the question why not many are posting on this forum anymore....well I think this discussion answers that question.
A poster asked a simple question which was correctly answered by Yobarr, myself and other posters. Then the thread get's hijacked by a bunch of idiotic posters quoting Shakespeare!
The OP seems to be long gone and those of us who made an effort to assist him are probably rightfully wondering if we should have bothered.
For those wondering why people are not posting.....therein lies your answer and I doubt if Shakespeare can help!
Delta18 said
08:59 AM Feb 16, 2020
I wonder, relating to the original post and ignoring the irrelevant replies, if the weighbridge operator actually did know his stuff.
He no doubt needs to keep the customers moving to prevent holdups.
I wonder if his plan for towBALL weight is to (a) weigh the car alone with the van connected but not on the scales, then (b) use jockey wheel (off the scale) to raise the van to the point that there is no weight of the van on the car. In my case, I could see this sweet spot when the towbar shank just starts to lift in the receiver. At his point the van weight is off the car.
The difference between the 2 weights is towBALL mass.
This method speeds up because one doesnt have to unhook the van, chains, wiring etc then drive on the scales.
To an inexperienced eye, this method could look to be lifting the car when in fact it is just the car raising as the van weight comes off it.
If done carefully this method would give a very accurate reading in minimum time, the possible addition of some chain weight would be negligible.
Just my thoughts outside the square
Neil
montie said
09:28 AM Feb 16, 2020
Delta18 wrote:
I wonder, relating to the original post and ignoring the irrelevant replies, if the weighbridge operator actually did know his stuff.
He no doubt needs to keep the customers moving to prevent holdups.
I wonder if his plan for towBALL weight is to (a) weigh the car alone with the van connected but not on the scales, then (b) use jockey wheel (off the scale) to raise the van to the point that there is no weight of the van on the car. In my case, I could see this sweet spot when the towbar shank just starts to lift in the receiver. At his point the van weight is off the car.
The difference between the 2 weights is towBALL mass.
This method speeds up because one doesnt have to unhook the van, chains, wiring etc then drive on the scales.
To an inexperienced eye, this method could look to be lifting the car when in fact it is just the car raising as the van weight comes off it.
If done carefully this method would give a very accurate reading in minimum time, the possible addition of some chain weight would be negligible.
Just my thoughts outside the square
Neil
Neil,
I doubt it would give an accurate reading but would serve as an approximate figure.
Obviously the weighbridge is very busy and don't want to waste time unhitching.
Most dealers use a calibrated scales that measures the weight at the coupling.
Brenda and Alan said
10:52 PM Feb 16, 2020
Montie as Delta18 has posted would give an ATM weight regardless of how high the van was lifted off the tow ball. The only weight on the scale would be that of the van. The only inaccuracy would be due to the weight of the jockey wheel. If you really want an accurate figure of all weights to do with your setup to do the following when using a weighbridge.
(1) drive front axle of tug onto bridge and record
(2) drive forward until both axles are on plate and record
(3) drive forward until front axle of van is also on plate and record
(4) drive forward until all axles are on the plate and record
(5) drive off bridge and un-hitch van
(6) drive back onto bridge front axle only and record
(7) drive tug fully onto bridge and record
From these weights you can calculate the following
(a) front, rear axle load and gvm of tug when hitched and unhitched
(b )tow ball weight and ATM of van as hitched (when unhitched these weights are meaningless with regards law)
(c) front and rear axle weights of van when hitched to aid in adjusting tyre pressures on the van for non load sharing suspensions
It is this simple with little hold up to trucks and others who may also wish to use the weigh bridge and the weight of the jockey wheel stays with where you store it when hitched.
The only inaccuracy is that of the weigh bridge not some irrelevant angle of the van in an ATM weighing.
Alan
Greg 1 said
12:57 PM Feb 17, 2020
Alan, you need to weigh the van both hitched and unhitched. You cannot get accurate ATM and ball weights without doing so.
The best way is to employ a mobile weighing service with racecar corner weight scales. These give you axle weights and total weights of vehicle and caravan in one weigh without all the messing about. One unhitch to get ball weight and calculate ATM.
Brenda and Alan said
01:01 PM Feb 17, 2020
Greg that is precisely what I have stated, see point 5.
Alan
ConsumerMan said
03:30 PM Feb 18, 2020
Thanks for all comments. Ill have the rig weighed again as soon as possible and next time ensure the operator allows me to unhitch instead of the jockey wheel acting like a crane trying to lift the rear of my vehicle off the ground.
yobarr said
05:58 PM Feb 18, 2020
ConsumerMan wrote:
Thanks for all comments. Ill have the rig weighed again as soon as possible and next time ensure the operator allows me to unhitch instead of the jockey wheel acting like a crane trying to lift the rear of my vehicle off the ground.
Happy to have been able to help Alan.It would be great if you could let us know the results of the new weighing exercise......could be very interesting,and possibly will help prevent others from being misled? Cheers
Delta18 said
08:10 PM Feb 18, 2020
Brenda and Alan wrote:
. The only inaccuracy would be due to the weight of the jockey wheel. If you really want an accurate figure of all weights to do with your setup to do the following when using a weighbridge.
(
Alan
In my case the jockey wheel stays in its clamp always.
ConsumerMan said
02:42 PM Feb 28, 2020
So what does the tow ball mass stamped on the compliance plate mean? In my case the stamp reads 135kg. Is this the minimum or maximum weight allowed on the tow ball? My tow vehicle has a 300Kg TBM rating.
ConsumerMan said
02:57 PM Feb 28, 2020
montie wrote:
Somebody in this thread asked the question why not many are posting on this forum anymore....well I think this discussion answers that question.
A poster asked a simple question which was correctly answered by Yobarr, myself and other posters. Then the thread get's hijacked by a bunch of idiotic posters quoting Shakespeare!
The OP seems to be long gone and those of us who made an effort to assist him are probably rightfully wondering if we should have bothered.
For those wondering why people are not posting.....therein lies your answer and I doubt if Shakespeare can help!
I am still here Montie and very interested in everybodys comments. I must say I am still confused, and have always hated Shakespeare.
Radar said
03:04 PM Feb 28, 2020
ConsumerMan wrote:
So what does the tow ball mass stamped on the compliance plate mean? In my case the stamp reads 135kg. Is this the minimum or maximum weight allowed on the tow ball? My tow vehicle has a 300Kg TBM rating.
At tare when the caravan was built the towball weight was x a mount.
my own experience with 2 caravans it was of very little help. the stamped weight on the plate was with in 100kgs when weighed Just after buying second hand.
Greg 1 said
02:18 AM Feb 29, 2020
The tow ball weight on the compliance plate is usually with an empty van so tits on a bull comes to mind as it can alter dramatically when loaded depending on how you load the van.
For example my plate shows 180kgs which is a wish made in heaven I can tell you. I weighed the van just before setting off on my last trip east and it weighed in loaded at 308kgs which is a smidge over 10% of ATM.
ConsumerMan said
08:43 AM Feb 29, 2020
OK, finally I am having that lightbulb moment. TBM on the compliance plate means nothing but TBM must not exceed the TBM of the tow vehicle. The caravans GVM + TBM = ATM. ATM as stamped on the compliance plate must not be exceeded. I think I have finally got it. Thanks for everybodys help.
Help yourselves everyone.
I note consumerman has not commented on the thread, sometimes, I think it is up to the original poster to reply and also steer the thread to get the answer he/she was looking for. It could be that this thread was just a set up, but assuming it wasn't, then to get the ball weight all you have to do is use a pair of bathroom scales, I was doing this, the brought one of those fancy tow ball weight measuring thingys, and found a 17kg difference in the weights. Haven't used either method since.
How ever we do have much useful talent and expertise through the members, lets just ease off, and accept that sometimes the messages get sent wrong, or interpreted wrongly. We just bend a little and except that things can't always be perfect, we wouldn't consume so much popcorn!
-- Edited by iana on Friday 14th of February 2020 05:51:41 PM
Aussie Paul.
Yobarr I understand perfectly. Cheers.
Alan
To weigh hitched or unhitched? Is van level or skewed? Does the AGM have any bearing on the ball weight?.That is the question. Is it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged posters or, by closing the IPad, end them? Could this topic have run its course?? (Apologies to Bill Shakespeare)
I am very real.
Cheers.
Alan
I'm not surprised the OP has not returned.
His original question regarding ball weight measurement was clearly explained by a number of posters including myself but others have chosen to complicate the issue by introducing unrelated topic and drawing red herrings for the sake of argument. This does not help the OP.
Just to clarify there are only two ways to accurately determine actual ball download...1) Calculate at a weighbridge by weighing the hitched and unhitched van (Tug) or measure it at the coupling. (Measuring at the jockey wheel will not produce an accurate reading).
It is not a complicated issue.
What an entertaining thread !
Cheers,
Jontee
Hi Phil.......If my memory serves me correctly, "....to take arms against a sea of troubles,and,by opposing,end them.To die,to sleep" completes that verse? It is over 50 years since I learnt Hamlet,so that may not be exactly correct? Cheers
Actual Text from "Hamlet" Act 3, Scene 1
To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.--Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.
It is a soliloquy, which means that the character is letting the audience know his thoughts at that moment in the play. He is talking to himself, and we are hearing his internal dialogue. He is considering suicide upon learning that his uncle has killed his father and has taken his mother as his consort.
I just knew that you all wanted to know this .... it rounds out the discussion on Tow Ball Weights & everything else.
I think that I will unsubscribe to this thread or just let it go to its rightful place .. my junk folder.
What a load of cobblers!
Your no Shakespeare mate....but keep trying!
Somebody in this thread asked the question why not many are posting on this forum anymore....well I think this discussion answers that question.
A poster asked a simple question which was correctly answered by Yobarr, myself and other posters. Then the thread get's hijacked by a bunch of idiotic posters quoting Shakespeare!
The OP seems to be long gone and those of us who made an effort to assist him are probably rightfully wondering if we should have bothered.
For those wondering why people are not posting.....therein lies your answer and I doubt if Shakespeare can help!
I wonder, relating to the original post and ignoring the irrelevant replies, if the weighbridge operator actually did know his stuff.
He no doubt needs to keep the customers moving to prevent holdups.
I wonder if his plan for towBALL weight is to (a) weigh the car alone with the van connected but not on the scales, then (b) use jockey wheel (off the scale) to raise the van to the point that there is no weight of the van on the car. In my case, I could see this sweet spot when the towbar shank just starts to lift in the receiver. At his point the van weight is off the car.
The difference between the 2 weights is towBALL mass.
This method speeds up because one doesnt have to unhook the van, chains, wiring etc then drive on the scales.
To an inexperienced eye, this method could look to be lifting the car when in fact it is just the car raising as the van weight comes off it.
If done carefully this method would give a very accurate reading in minimum time, the possible addition of some chain weight would be negligible.
Just my thoughts outside the square
Neil
Neil,
I doubt it would give an accurate reading but would serve as an approximate figure.
Obviously the weighbridge is very busy and don't want to waste time unhitching.
Most dealers use a calibrated scales that measures the weight at the coupling.
Montie as Delta18 has posted would give an ATM weight regardless of how high the van was lifted off the tow ball. The only weight on the scale would be that of the van. The only inaccuracy would be due to the weight of the jockey wheel. If you really want an accurate figure of all weights to do with your setup to do the following when using a weighbridge.
(1) drive front axle of tug onto bridge and record
(2) drive forward until both axles are on plate and record
(3) drive forward until front axle of van is also on plate and record
(4) drive forward until all axles are on the plate and record
(5) drive off bridge and un-hitch van
(6) drive back onto bridge front axle only and record
(7) drive tug fully onto bridge and record
From these weights you can calculate the following
(a) front, rear axle load and gvm of tug when hitched and unhitched
(b )tow ball weight and ATM of van as hitched (when unhitched these weights are meaningless with regards law)
(c) front and rear axle weights of van when hitched to aid in adjusting tyre pressures on the van for non load sharing suspensions
It is this simple with little hold up to trucks and others who may also wish to use the weigh bridge and the weight of the jockey wheel stays with where you store it when hitched.
The only inaccuracy is that of the weigh bridge not some irrelevant angle of the van in an ATM weighing.
Alan
Greg that is precisely what I have stated, see point 5.
Alan
Happy to have been able to help Alan.It would be great if you could let us know the results of the new weighing exercise......could be very interesting,and possibly will help prevent others from being misled? Cheers
In my case the jockey wheel stays in its clamp always.
I am still here Montie and very interested in everybodys comments. I must say I am still confused, and have always hated Shakespeare.
At tare when the caravan was built the towball weight was x a mount.
my own experience with 2 caravans it was of very little help. the stamped weight on the plate was with in 100kgs when weighed Just after buying second hand.