Is Sir David Attenborough included in those "with no real understanding of the subject" Yobarr? I suggest that those scientists who do understand the subject speak with a very clear and consistent voice and have been doing so for many years.
And Mike, when we are out and about in our OKA our emissions are less than when we are at home, but yes, within a couple of decades all vehicles will powered by clean renewable energy and our OKA and your RV will be dead and gone. Bring it on. Cheers, Peter
"bring it on", steady on Pete, that's like wishing your life away.
Mike Harding said
05:13 PM Oct 29, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
And Mike, when we are out and about in our OKA our emissions are less than when we are at home, but yes, within a couple of decades all vehicles will powered by clean renewable energy and our OKA and your RV will be dead and gone. Bring it on.
Peter (and Margaret, would be good to hear her side) - iirc recently you were telling us about a new vehicle you are building. Is it electric? And if not, why not? And If so what is its carbon footprint? Damn! but this stuff becomes tedious.
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:54 PM Oct 29, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
And Mike, when we are out and about in our OKA our emissions are less than when we are at home, but yes, within a couple of decades all vehicles will powered by clean renewable energy and our OKA and your RV will be dead and gone. Bring it on.
Peter (and Margaret, would be good to hear her side) - iirc recently you were telling us about a new vehicle you are building. Is it electric? And if not, why not? And If so what is its carbon footprint? Damn! but this stuff becomes tedious.
I wish.
Long range heavy vehicles (including interstate freight) will use hydrogen to convert to electricity. There are several manufacturers developing products at this time.
Maybe by the time it is getting close to finished there will be conversion products readily available.
You can already buy a Tesla "crate" motor to bolt into your old US V8. https://www.caradvice.com.au/890136/company-offering-tesla-electric-crate-motor-to-fit-older-v8-cars/
Cheers,
Peter
bgt said
11:24 AM Oct 30, 2020
When I was a little kid way back in the 1950's they had books about cars and trucks that didn't need fossil fuels. They said we would all have vehicles that followed the white lines in the roads or we would have our own helicopters. Hasn't happened!! The new whizz bang batteries have been coming for 20 years now. Hasn't happened. Hydrogen hasn't happened. Solar has been racing from Darwin south for years but where's the solar car? Hasn't happened. The hole in the ground to dump the old batteries and solar panels hasn't been dug yet either. So many bright ideas. So much talk. Mind you all with other peoples money. But I guess talks cheap. Peter's a good example of do as I say not as I do. Sorry Peter but you set yourself up.
Now back to the OP. The debate isn't really about generators. It's about common courtesy. If you're first into a site then ok set up the genny on the end of a 200mtr lead. (200mtr cos it makes a bloody noise that annoys you). If you come in and someones already there then set up camp at you own peril.
Those advocating for generators please explain why you put them on the longest lead you have as far away from your own RV as possible?
Aussie1 said
11:38 AM Oct 30, 2020
bgt wrote:
When I was a little kid way back in the 1950's they had books about cars and trucks that didn't need fossil fuels. They said we would all have vehicles that followed the white lines in the roads or we would have our own helicopters. Hasn't happened!! The new whizz bang batteries have been coming for 20 years now. Hasn't happened. Hydrogen hasn't happened. Solar has been racing from Darwin south for years but where's the solar car? Hasn't happened. The hole in the ground to dump the old batteries and solar panels hasn't been dug yet either. So many bright ideas. So much talk. Mind you all with other peoples money. But I guess talks cheap. Peter's a good example of do as I say not as I do. Sorry Peter but you set yourself up.
Now back to the OP. The debate isn't really about generators. It's about common courtesy. If you're first into a site then ok set up the genny on the end of a 200mtr lead. (200mtr cos it makes a bloody noise that annoys you). If you come in and someones already there then set up camp at you own peril.
Those advocating for generators please explain why you put them on the longest lead you have as far away from your own RV as possible?
I use a short lead. I don't have any problem with our nice quiet Honda. That way I get good power (as recommended) for the air conditioner as well. Also don't even take of the Cruiser on many occasions, very convenient.
yobarr said
12:02 PM Oct 30, 2020
bgt wrote:
The debate isn't really about generators. Its about common courtesy. If you're first into a site then ok set up the genny on the end of a 200mtr lead. (200mtr cos it makes a bloody noise that annoys you). If you come in and someones already there then set up camp at you own peril.
Those advocating for generators please explain why you put them on the longest lead you have as far away from your own RV as possible?
Brilliant post Bruce,but unfortunately "common courtesy" is not at all common these days. As for your question about the "longest lead",this question is probably too hard.Cheers
Mike Harding said
12:55 PM Oct 30, 2020
bgt wrote:
Those advocating for generators please explain why you put them on the longest lead you have as far away from your own RV as possible?
Hi bgt
I did answer this question when you posed it in the last thread we had about generators and, no doubt, will probably answer it again in the next one :)
I often chain my gen (Honda EU20i) to a stabilizer leg of my van, the noise really doesn't bother me much as it's a constant sound and the brain is very good at filtering such sounds which is why people living near busy roads don't hear the traffic... but their visitors do.
This is different, for example, to people who play music or TVs which can be heard outside their van (so they don't need to be very loud), such sounds are almost impossible for others to ignore and, indeed, the brain often struggles to make sense of them thus making them particularly annoying yet I suspect most on here who complain of gens have no hesitation running their TVs or hi-fi.
As with all things in life; let's just be nice to one-another and try to accommodate reasonable expectations of others - although we should keep in mind some people have unreasonable expectations of how their particular demands ought to be adhered to by others.
And for people with a pathological hatred of generators (Peter?) perhaps you should camp in National Parks - there are one hell of a lot of them - where generators are not permitted and leave the gen. areas to those of use who are comfortable with them? That way you won't be annoyed by the gen and you won't have to waste time pointlessly whinging on internet forums.
Whenarewethere said
01:14 PM Oct 30, 2020
Whitworths Marine sell 25mm thick engine room acoustic insulation. I have bought some mass loaded & non mass loaded foam. Good stuff.
Knock up a box out of 25mm plywood & line it with 25mm foam & another sheet of mass loaded foam. Vent exhaust to the ground & intake facing away from people, also with a baffle.
No one will complain about noise.
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 30th of October 2020 01:27:57 PM
You did post this "idea" as a solution recently and were taken to task for it by another at the time but appear not to have taken that rebuttal on board.
Encasing a small air cooled engine in such a box will lead to significantly increased heat within the engine and *seriously* shorten its life - do not do it!
Hopefully you will not post this most ill-advised suggestion again.
DMaxer said
01:38 PM Oct 30, 2020
A "pathological hatred of generators"..I quite like that phrase Mike. I wonder if there is an actual diagnosis that can be made. Imagine a psychiatrist visiting a mental institution and being informed by the resident doctor that the patient was suffering from a "pathological hatred of generators" brought on by free camping.
Onedodger said
01:45 PM Oct 30, 2020
Come on you people this has turned into a ****e fight.
We are all different with different needs so let it be.
You did post this "idea" as a solution recently and were taken to task for it by another at the time but appear not to have taken that rebuttal on board.
Encasing a small air cooled engine in such a box will lead to significantly increased heat within the engine and *seriously* shorten its life - do not do it!
Hopefully you will not post this most ill-advised suggestion again.
Vent
Mike Harding said
01:46 PM Oct 30, 2020
DMaxer wrote:
A "pathological hatred of generators"..I quite like that phrase Mike. I wonder if there is an actual diagnosis that can be made. Imagine a psychiatrist visiting a mental institution and being informed by the resident doctor that the patient was suffering from a "pathological hatred of generators" brought on by free camping.
You may jest Dmaxer!
But! There is a diagnosable philia for the disorder of sexual attraction to machines. I kid you not.
Perhaps ten years past a guy in the UK was arrested whilst attempting to become intimate with the exhaust pipe of, it must be admitted, a rather sexy parked sports car. He was charged with something or other (use your imagination Dmaxer) and convicted. I think the magistrate recommended a diversion programme.
So you never know... perhaps some of the strongly expressed anti generator sentiment on this site is simply repressed desire...? :)
Edit: as opposed to a deviation programme.
(Sorry, didn't think of that until later but it was just too good to let go :) )
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Friday 30th of October 2020 01:53:02 PM
bgt said
01:48 PM Oct 30, 2020
Mike I post the same question simply because the same debate goes around and around and around.
I have no issue with generators as such. My issues is with users/campers who disregarded other campers. This applies to lots of things not just generators.
That's life now days. "Stuff everyone I'm ok mate".
KJB said
01:59 PM Oct 30, 2020
No "overheat" problems putting it in a box providing you have an intake vent and an exhaust vent for the cooling air ..I have two in similar situations (2Kva and 3Kva Hondas) and both have operated without problems for 8 years......
markf said
02:04 PM Oct 30, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
..
And for people with a pathological hatred of generators (Peter?) perhaps you should camp in National Parks - there are one hell of a lot of them - where generators are not permitted and leave the gen. areas to those of use who are comfortable with them? .
And that is a bit of wishful thinking.
Many times we have been to National Parks where no generators are permitted only to have someone pull out some old noisy two stroke thing and run it for a few hours of an evening. Same in areas clearly sign posted "No Generators". Of course if we say something all we get is a heap of abuse.
Maybe we've been lucky but we've never needed one so we don't have one.
Whenarewethere said
02:31 PM Oct 30, 2020
KJB wrote:
No "overheat" problems putting it in a box providing you have an intake vent and an exhaust vent for the cooling air ..I have two in similar situations (2Kva and 3Kva Hondas) and both have operated without problems for 8 years......
It's the same as a computer room. I had a spare bedroom set up as a 3D render farm. When the room was not vented the computers overheated & shutdown.
I stuck a fan in to get air to flow through the room & the bank of dual Xeon CPU computers worked fine. Including one period 24 hours a day for 3 weeks in January spitting out frame after frame. It got up to 38°C in the room but there was enough airflow to remove all the heat from the computers.
& I had acoustic insulation in the room to quieten the computers so as not to annoy the neighbours. The common wall is one brick thick & it was their bedroom. They never heard the computers.
You can have as much acoustic insulation as you want. Simply vent the space.
Aussie1 said
02:40 PM Oct 30, 2020
I am hoping to have available sometime next year some portable "acoustic panels" to sell to anyone camped near us to wrap around their little space if they don't like the sound of our Honda purring away. Pete, special price for you cobber :)
GarrynLyn said
05:54 PM Oct 31, 2020
We carry our gennie, mostly to charge batteries if needed (compressor fridge), but are considerate of other travellers.
Have also used in free camps in northern WA during summer for the air con. Parked well away from others.
Will continue to take our gennie when we travel.
Rob Driver said
06:06 AM Nov 1, 2020
I have already stated my views on a generator.
It is unfortunate but human nature is a strange thing at times. When someone has built, or bought something to suit their needs then it can become common for them to insist their choices to other people with total disregard to those others ACTUAL needs. In the case of generators vs solar, which by the way was not what was asked by the OP, the old chestnut of noise and air pollution are the topics of defence raised against the use of generators,
In actual fact the vehicles driven by the naysayers, the production and disposal of solar panels and associated batteries is reported to be far worse for the environment than running a small modern and very efficient 4 STROKE ENGINE (I have not seen a two stroke generator in the last 15 years)
The people who build these elaborate solar powered systems in some instances have a need for them as they work or travel in remote areas where petrol becomes a problem with purchase and storage. Their choice not to use a diesel generator is theirs even though the vehicles that they are using will be in 99% of cases, be diesel. In many cases the same people have built their own solar systems and this raises another argument when they quote what a system costs but neglect to mention that there was little to no labour costs figured into the comparable equation.
So, here comes the human nature bit.....They are camped with full access to the sun and sitting there with a beer in hand contemplating just how clever they were to be able to build a solar system when a fellow who has no need for such a system turns up and starts a generator to cool his van prior to retiring....Remember what I pointed out in my first post that GENERATORS ARE NOT ILLEGAL.
At this point maybe Mr Solar is peed off because he cant run his air conditioner or if he can, he at that moment realises how simple his life would have been for the sake of a generator in his kit.
Most caravans sold new these days have some form of solar charging. Our previous van had 3 Solar Panels and two AGM batteries and we could camp easily for five days off grid. Our current van has one solar panel and one battery and we need to charge or drive after the second day to charge the van battery back to full. This was our choice when buying the new van as we rarely camped for five days off grid without moving. Our other choice is to connect the Honda 2kva and charge it up while staying put and while using the air con, washing machine and coffee maker. Again, this is not illegal but is apparently of some annoyance to those with the Supa Solar Systems.
The noise of a generator is hardly the problem as has been pointed out in other posts with guitar playing yodellers, TVs and Radios even if the radio is tuned to Macca and my pet hate is the phone call that is so loud the caller did not need to use a phone as he could be heard in the next state without it. I have often wondered if the same people that insist on parking next to truck with a fridge van running in a truck rest stop are the same ones complaining about a generator.
Mike is correct when he says that a constant source of noise such as a generator is nowhere near as bad as the other noises we may be subject to. You only need to ask any transport driver that has towed fridge vans how he sleeps with the fridge noise.
Then comes some more input where it is suggested that extension leads of massive length should be used. Or we have the guy who has reportedly got a solar system that will run a small country town but is based along the eastern seaboard and sits dreaming of one day getting his big boy pants on, getting off of fora and actually going out bush and using his system.
A generator is a useful piece of equipment for camping and if it fits your needs then use it. If generators arent for you because you have a solar fit up that would equal Bunnerong output, ( is Bunnerong still operating?) then dont come up with lame excuses about air and noise pollution when it is actually only your need to feed your own ego.
Remember GENERATORS AND THEIR USE ARE NOT ILLEGAL. And generators can be moved from van to van.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 1st of November 2020 06:15:21 AM
TheHeaths said
09:06 AM Nov 1, 2020
My experience with generators.
In the last 10 years while travelling, we have heard them perhaps 3 or 4 times and always shut down by 1900. Hardly a problem, and hardly the issue many who talk against them seem to encounter.
Like many things, it is good that we are all different, and there is not just one correct way to camp.
Will leave you with our funniest story re solar.
4 years ago we were camped at Marys Pool in the Kimberley. The camp was full, and near us was an obvious long term traveller and camper with a 4wd and van covered with solar panels. Also a couple of portable ones deployed to top up the battery bank. The ones on the 4wd were on a frame allowing him to adjust them every 1/2 hour or so to maximise solar collection. He worked hard during the afternoon to top up his batteries, and good luck to him.
During the afternoon, we sat outside and enjoyed the area, until Kathy went inside to get our dinner ready. We have no generator, and just a basic solar panel setup to allow us to do about 10% of our camping off grid, but Kathy worked with what we have, and got a nice meal ready for us. The irony was, about 10 minutes after sundown, I watched Mr Solar go into his van to start to get his meal ready. The first thing he did was turn on all the lights, and fire up the generator! Having watched his efforts to capture solar all the afternoon, Kathy and I had a laugh.
As a final observation, I also enjoy the irony of those who say consider the rights of others as they completely disregard the rights of those they berate. I will now retire once and for all from the generator debate, or is that debacle!
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Sunday 1st of November 2020 09:08:12 AM
DMaxer said
09:17 AM Nov 1, 2020
I understand your view on this topic Rod but it is not a question of whether something is legal or illegal, it is more about consideration for the people around you and the habitat.
Practising the bag pipes or the bass drum is not illegal but I am sure if someone pulled up next to you and advised you that they were about to commence a two hour practice session then you would not be too impressed.
One of the joys of the caravanning life is being able to listen to and enjoy the sounds of nature. The noise of someone's generator humming away so some air head can watch television or run the air conditioner is infuriating to me. I wonder why these people need to go bush. Why not just camp out in the loungeroom or sit in their caravan underneath their car port at home if they can't survive without the suburban pleasures.
If I stop at a truck stop and the refrigerated vehicle is next to me, well so be it. That is their domain.
The one thing that really irritates me is when some clown pulls up, presents the generator and looks about as if to say,"the gennie is going on soon. You're all warned, if you don't like it leave now". Another one is the mealy mouthed moron that announces in a mealy mouthed voice that they need the generator for the breathing machine. Funnily enough, the breathing machine must also need the air conditioner and the television going full blast for it to operate properly.
It is not a question of legality. It is a question of consideration. There is a reason why most people like to go bush and experience nature and it is not to hear someone's generator. There is a reason why they are not allowed in National Parks and it is not just the comfort of other campers.
Generators were made for a purpose. Usually it was for work related operations when mains power was not available or for areas that either did not have mains power or an unreliable connection to mains power. The fact that some of the camping community latched onto them and now cannot survive without them does not give them legitimacy.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 1st of November 2020 09:20:05 AM
hufnpuf said
09:31 AM Nov 1, 2020
I doubt I'll ever need a generator, I'll probably always be staying places with services (although on my recent trip I had issues accessing them), but I like to learn things. I've seen for sale Honda generators described as "silent". People in this thread have referred to their Honda generators as "quiet". What sort of noise levels are we talking about here? Is it brands/types other than these Honda "silent" ones that are annoying? Are the Honda silent ones the answer to using a generator without annoying other people?
yobarr said
09:59 AM Nov 1, 2020
DMaxer wrote:
I understand your view on this topic Rod but it is not a question of whether something is legal or illegal, it is more about consideration for the people around you,and the habitat.
Practising the bag pipes or the bass drum is not illegal but I am sure if someone pulled up next to you and advised you that they were about to commence a two hour practice session then you would not be too impressed.
One of the joys of the caravanning life is being able to listen to and enjoy the sounds of nature.The noise of someone's generator humming away so some air head can watch television or run the air conditioner is infuriating to me. I wonder why these people need to go bush. Why not just camp out in the loungeroom or sit in their caravan underneath their car port at home if they can't survive without the suburban pleasures.
If I stop at a truck stop and the refrigerated vehicle is next to me, well so be it. That is their domain.
The one thing that really irritates me is when some clown pulls up, presents the generator and looks about as if to say,"the gennie is going on soon. You're all warned, if you don't like it leave now". Another one is the mealy mouthed moron that announces in a mealy mouthed voice that they need the generator for the breathing machine. Funnily enough, the breathing machine must also need the air conditioner and the television going full blast for it to operate properly.
It is not a question of legality.It is a question of consideration.There is a reason why most people like to go bush and experience nature and it is not to hear someone's generator. There is a reason why they are not allowed in National Parks and it is not just the comfort of other campers.
Generators were made for a purpose. Usually it was for work related operations when mains power was not available or for areas that either did not have mains power or an unreliable connection to mains power. The fact that some of the camping community latched onto them and now cannot survive without them does not give them legitimacy.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 1st of November 2020 09:20:05 AM
What an absolutely brilliant post,DMaxer! (Do you have a name?) I have highlighted a couple of points that,to me,are simple logic,but many of the points you raise may be beyond the comprehension of some? Great post! As an aside,somewhere I noticed a mention of Bunnerong Power Station, which was demolished in 1987,amid a huge cloud of Asbestos-ridden dust. Coincidentally,I was actively involved in this demolition,with my excavator and hammer (rockbreaker) lifted,by crane,waaaay up on to the top floor.Working almost blindly in pitch black,with coal and asbestos dust making the headlights almost useless,it was my job to hammer the concrete off the dozens of huge support columns to expose the steel beams inside,so that the demolition experts could affix their "jelly" to them,to blow the place up. Over a period of weeks we worked our way down to the ground floor,and at night there were armed guards on site to prevent any sabotage attempts.When it all was blown up,in about June 1987,from memory,there was a huge dust cloud over Sydney for some time.With all the OH&S garbage these days,we would never be allowed to do it the way we did. Oh,the good old days! Once again,DMaxer,thanks for this great post.Just because something is legal does not necessarily make it right.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 1st of November 2020 07:47:14 PM
I certainly agree that there are different circumstances may exist when someone is using a generator for camping. Your view and input certainly reinforces that situation.
From my first post on page one of this topic I said........
Be considerate with its use if others choose to camp near you.
With every post on the topic of generators for camping there are a certain few on these forums that insist on defending their choice of solar with ridicule rather than consider the fact that most vans do have some solar and to carry and use a generator is generally for a back up situation. If the average traveller can do an overnight or two or as in my case with my old van up to 5 days when sunny conditions prevail this is what they do and the generator stays in the boot or as some now claim, at home.
Unfortunately the use or lack of use by the majority is completely overlooked by some contributors and their method is to state the worse case scenarios, probably a bit similar to the constant debate how there is only one ute that can tow certain weights regardless of how another person loads and uses his vehicle. But lets not bring that up as it is the same ridicule that some are forced to bear by a minority who push their barrow because it what is they have done, purchased or built and not how another operates his equipment.
The view of being critical about generators is more about satisfying the value of their decisions than is the actual assessment of the value of having a generator when you have not built a solar powerhouse on top of your van and vehicle and hence my comment in my post above....
A generator is a useful piece of equipment for camping and if it fits your needs then use it.
If generators arent for you because you have a solar fit up that would equal Bunnerong output, ( is Bunnerong still operating?) then dont come up with lame excuses about air and noise pollution when it is actually only your need to feed your own ego.
My point is if someone needs a generator to be used with consideration and its use is to supplement there power supply then they should be able to make a decision based on fact rather than hype or ridicule.
Colin, I would be most upset if I camped next to a bagpiper, definitely a lot more than the bloke with the foghorn voice that talks for an hour on his phone.
Regards
Rob
Rob Driver said
10:10 AM Nov 1, 2020
Yobarr
Do you still make a living selling solar......asking for a friend?
Regards
Rob
DMaxer said
11:36 AM Nov 1, 2020
That is just the point Rob. In my view there is no consideration for anyone the minute you turn your generator on. It's a bit like saying "I am only hitting my wife lightly" or " I am only stealing things that are not too expensive for the owner to replace". The use shows people don't care less about their fellow campers. The two hours or so they are running the bloody thing might just be the two hours that a fellow camper would have liked to relax and listen to nature, the sound of a river or the sound of the sea. Instead, some moron has their Honda thumping away so they don't get too hot or miss any episodes of The Bachelor.
Rob, it is camping. Living in the great outdoors with all the elements makes camping and caravanning one of the most fabulous pastimes in the World. I am not a solar fanatic. I have one panel on my van and one battery and that runs everything for me. The fridge and HWS work on gas and I have about 200 litres of water. If I want the air conditioner I go to a park or showground. The generator lovers must sit and home and think "I can't wait to go out bush. I can lock myself in the van, turn on the air conditioner and the Tv whilst the generator thumps away outside. That's the life".
Mike Harding said
01:02 PM Nov 1, 2020
TheHeaths: I have a Honda EU20i 2kw generator, it is quiet but certainly not silent. At power levels up to about 500W it cannot be heard more than about 25m distant, as the power drawn increases to maximum that distance probably doubles. At 500W at 10m its noise is noticeable but not uncomfortable.
Dmaxer: You seem like a decent and sensible bloke (I have my fingers crossed) so I ask myself why is it you do not camp further away from others as do I? And I do it for the reasons you mention: I don't wish others intruding into my space and I like to "commune with nature man" but if you camp with others that's rarely going to happen as there are a lot of w@nkers out there. If it's not generators it'll be music or TVs or domestics or feral kids (adults!?). On the rare occasions I do stay in popular sites I simply pack up and move on if someone is doing something which annoys me. This is one of the reasons I chose to go nomad; I did not wish to be stuck with bad neighbours in the final years of my life.
iirc you are in Qld and surely must be able to find remote spots there? I have no trouble doing so in Vic.
I'm currently camped on the bank of the Murray River, 20m from the water. It's a holiday weekend in Vic and there have been perhaps a dozen or more boats sailing up and down with their noisy outboards, I find them a little irritating... should I ask them to stop?
Aussie1 said
02:04 PM Nov 1, 2020
DMaxer wrote:
That is just the point Rob. In my view there is no consideration for anyone the minute you turn your generator on. It's a bit like saying "I am only hitting my wife lightly" or " I am only stealing things that are not too expensive for the owner to replace". The use shows people don't care less about their fellow campers. The two hours or so they are running the bloody thing might just be the two hours that a fellow camper would have liked to relax and listen to nature, the sound of a river or the sound of the sea. Instead, some moron has their Honda thumping away so they don't get too hot or miss any episodes of The Bachelor.
Rob, it is camping. Living in the great outdoors with all the elements makes camping and caravanning one of the most fabulous pastimes in the World. I am not a solar fanatic. I have one panel on my van and one battery and that runs everything for me. The fridge and HWS work on gas and I have about 200 litres of water. If I want the air conditioner I go to a park or showground. The generator lovers must sit and home and think "I can't wait to go out bush. I can lock myself in the van, turn on the air conditioner and the Tv whilst the generator thumps away outside. That's the life".
You are only missing one important point there DMAXER, last time I checked, we still live in a free country. But, I will say you are not alone, some on here (like yourself) struggle with that. Chill Cobber and travel safe.
JayDee said
03:53 PM Nov 1, 2020
Aussie1 wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
It seems that our children and grand children are more concerned about this planet than we are. Sad really, but that is OK because we will all be dead soon and they will take better care of what is left than we ever did. Cheers, Peter
And on that very cheery note I shall just continue with my very happy life. By the way I do not plan to be dead anytime soon, well I hope not anyway because I want to be here long enough to prove generators will never be banned. In fact I would take the opposite approach and wish all campers long and happy lives. Which includes generator users and well as those that appose generators.
I am on your team Aussie 1.
And it is my belief that I have lived through the best years whilst on planet earth.
I am not a supporter of all this climate change and I certainly do not agree with the way our kids are being brain washed about the future.
Jesus, nobody can predict the future . If you think you can then how about giving me the 6 gold lotto numbers in the M$$$$ draw next Saturday.
Yep!!! Hence my view is that I have been one of the many lucky ones to have lived from the 40's to 2020.
"bring it on", steady on Pete, that's like wishing your life away.
Peter (and Margaret, would be good to hear her side) - iirc recently you were telling us about a new vehicle you are building. Is it electric? And if not, why not? And If so what is its carbon footprint? Damn! but this stuff becomes tedious.
I wish.
Long range heavy vehicles (including interstate freight) will use hydrogen to convert to electricity. There are several manufacturers developing products at this time.
Maybe by the time it is getting close to finished there will be conversion products readily available.
You can already buy a Tesla "crate" motor to bolt into your old US V8. https://www.caradvice.com.au/890136/company-offering-tesla-electric-crate-motor-to-fit-older-v8-cars/
Cheers,
Peter
Now back to the OP. The debate isn't really about generators. It's about common courtesy. If you're first into a site then ok set up the genny on the end of a 200mtr lead. (200mtr cos it makes a bloody noise that annoys you). If you come in and someones already there then set up camp at you own peril.
Those advocating for generators please explain why you put them on the longest lead you have as far away from your own RV as possible?
I use a short lead. I don't have any problem with our nice quiet Honda. That way I get good power (as recommended) for the air conditioner as well. Also don't even take of the Cruiser on many occasions, very convenient.
Brilliant post Bruce,but unfortunately "common courtesy" is not at all common these days. As for your question about the "longest lead",this question is probably too hard.Cheers
Hi bgt
I did answer this question when you posed it in the last thread we had about generators and, no doubt, will probably answer it again in the next one :)
I often chain my gen (Honda EU20i) to a stabilizer leg of my van, the noise really doesn't bother me much as it's a constant sound and the brain is very good at filtering such sounds which is why people living near busy roads don't hear the traffic... but their visitors do.
This is different, for example, to people who play music or TVs which can be heard outside their van (so they don't need to be very loud), such sounds are almost impossible for others to ignore and, indeed, the brain often struggles to make sense of them thus making them particularly annoying yet I suspect most on here who complain of gens have no hesitation running their TVs or hi-fi.
As with all things in life; let's just be nice to one-another and try to accommodate reasonable expectations of others - although we should keep in mind some people have unreasonable expectations of how their particular demands ought to be adhered to by others.
And for people with a pathological hatred of generators (Peter?) perhaps you should camp in National Parks - there are one hell of a lot of them - where generators are not permitted and leave the gen. areas to those of use who are comfortable with them? That way you won't be annoyed by the gen and you won't have to waste time pointlessly whinging on internet forums.
Whitworths Marine sell 25mm thick engine room acoustic insulation. I have bought some mass loaded & non mass loaded foam. Good stuff.
Knock up a box out of 25mm plywood & line it with 25mm foam & another sheet of mass loaded foam. Vent exhaust to the ground & intake facing away from people, also with a baffle.
No one will complain about noise.
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 30th of October 2020 01:27:57 PM
You did post this "idea" as a solution recently and were taken to task for it by another at the time but appear not to have taken that rebuttal on board.
Encasing a small air cooled engine in such a box will lead to significantly increased heat within the engine and *seriously* shorten its life - do not do it!
Hopefully you will not post this most ill-advised suggestion again.
A "pathological hatred of generators"..I quite like that phrase Mike. I wonder if there is an actual diagnosis that can be made. Imagine a psychiatrist visiting a mental institution and being informed by the resident doctor that the patient was suffering from a "pathological hatred of generators" brought on by free camping.
We are all different with different needs so let it be.
Vent
You may jest Dmaxer!
But! There is a diagnosable philia for the disorder of sexual attraction to machines. I kid you not.
Perhaps ten years past a guy in the UK was arrested whilst attempting to become intimate with the exhaust pipe of, it must be admitted, a rather sexy parked sports car. He was charged with something or other (use your imagination Dmaxer) and convicted. I think the magistrate recommended a diversion programme.
So you never know... perhaps some of the strongly expressed anti generator sentiment on this site is simply repressed desire...? :)
Edit: as opposed to a deviation programme.
(Sorry, didn't think of that until later but it was just too good to let go :) )
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Friday 30th of October 2020 01:53:02 PM
No "overheat" problems putting it in a box providing you have an intake vent and an exhaust vent for the cooling air ..I have two in similar situations (2Kva and 3Kva Hondas) and both have operated without problems for 8 years......
..
And that is a bit of wishful thinking.
Many times we have been to National Parks where no generators are permitted only to have someone pull out some old noisy two stroke thing and run it for a few hours of an evening. Same in areas clearly sign posted "No Generators". Of course if we say something all we get is a heap of abuse.
Maybe we've been lucky but we've never needed one so we don't have one.
It's the same as a computer room. I had a spare bedroom set up as a 3D render farm. When the room was not vented the computers overheated & shutdown.
I stuck a fan in to get air to flow through the room & the bank of dual Xeon CPU computers worked fine. Including one period 24 hours a day for 3 weeks in January spitting out frame after frame. It got up to 38°C in the room but there was enough airflow to remove all the heat from the computers.
& I had acoustic insulation in the room to quieten the computers so as not to annoy the neighbours. The common wall is one brick thick & it was their bedroom. They never heard the computers.
You can have as much acoustic insulation as you want. Simply vent the space.
Have also used in free camps in northern WA during summer for the air con. Parked well away from others.
Will continue to take our gennie when we travel.
I have already stated my views on a generator.
It is unfortunate but human nature is a strange thing at times.
When someone has built, or bought something to suit their needs then it can become common for them to insist their choices to other people with total disregard to those others ACTUAL needs.
In the case of generators vs solar, which by the way was not what was asked by the OP, the old chestnut of noise and air pollution are the topics of defence raised against the use of generators,
In actual fact the vehicles driven by the naysayers, the production and disposal of solar panels and associated batteries is reported to be far worse for the environment than running a small modern and very efficient 4 STROKE ENGINE (I have not seen a two stroke generator in the last 15 years)
The people who build these elaborate solar powered systems in some instances have a need for them as they work or travel in remote areas where petrol becomes a problem with purchase and storage. Their choice not to use a diesel generator is theirs even though the vehicles that they are using will be in 99% of cases, be diesel.
In many cases the same people have built their own solar systems and this raises another argument when they quote what a system costs but neglect to mention that there was little to no labour costs figured into the comparable equation.
So, here comes the human nature bit.....They are camped with full access to the sun and sitting there with a beer in hand contemplating just how clever they were to be able to build a solar system when a fellow who has no need for such a system turns up and starts a generator to cool his van prior to retiring....Remember what I pointed out in my first post that GENERATORS ARE NOT ILLEGAL.
At this point maybe Mr Solar is peed off because he cant run his air conditioner or if he can, he at that moment realises how simple his life would have been for the sake of a generator in his kit.
Most caravans sold new these days have some form of solar charging.
Our previous van had 3 Solar Panels and two AGM batteries and we could camp easily for five days off grid.
Our current van has one solar panel and one battery and we need to charge or drive after the second day to charge the van battery back to full. This was our choice when buying the new van as we rarely camped for five days off grid without moving.
Our other choice is to connect the Honda 2kva and charge it up while staying put and while using the air con, washing machine and coffee maker.
Again, this is not illegal but is apparently of some annoyance to those with the Supa Solar Systems.
The noise of a generator is hardly the problem as has been pointed out in other posts with guitar playing yodellers, TVs and Radios even if the radio is tuned to Macca and my pet hate is the phone call that is so loud the caller did not need to use a phone as he could be heard in the next state without it.
I have often wondered if the same people that insist on parking next to truck with a fridge van running in a truck rest stop are the same ones complaining about a generator.
Mike is correct when he says that a constant source of noise such as a generator is nowhere near as bad as the other noises we may be subject to. You only need to ask any transport driver that has towed fridge vans how he sleeps with the fridge noise.
Then comes some more input where it is suggested that extension leads of massive length should be used.
Or we have the guy who has reportedly got a solar system that will run a small country town but is based along the eastern seaboard and sits dreaming of one day getting his big boy pants on, getting off of fora and actually going out bush and using his system.
A generator is a useful piece of equipment for camping and if it fits your needs then use it.
If generators arent for you because you have a solar fit up that would equal Bunnerong output, ( is Bunnerong still operating?) then dont come up with lame excuses about air and noise pollution when it is actually only your need to feed your own ego.
Remember GENERATORS AND THEIR USE ARE NOT ILLEGAL. And generators can be moved from van to van.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 1st of November 2020 06:15:21 AM
My experience with generators.
In the last 10 years while travelling, we have heard them perhaps 3 or 4 times and always shut down by 1900. Hardly a problem, and hardly the issue many who talk against them seem to encounter.
Like many things, it is good that we are all different, and there is not just one correct way to camp.
Will leave you with our funniest story re solar.
4 years ago we were camped at Marys Pool in the Kimberley. The camp was full, and near us was an obvious long term traveller and camper with a 4wd and van covered with solar panels. Also a couple of portable ones deployed to top up the battery bank. The ones on the 4wd were on a frame allowing him to adjust them every 1/2 hour or so to maximise solar collection. He worked hard during the afternoon to top up his batteries, and good luck to him.
During the afternoon, we sat outside and enjoyed the area, until Kathy went inside to get our dinner ready. We have no generator, and just a basic solar panel setup to allow us to do about 10% of our camping off grid, but Kathy worked with what we have, and got a nice meal ready for us. The irony was, about 10 minutes after sundown, I watched Mr Solar go into his van to start to get his meal ready. The first thing he did was turn on all the lights, and fire up the generator! Having watched his efforts to capture solar all the afternoon, Kathy and I had a laugh.
As a final observation, I also enjoy the irony of those who say consider the rights of others as they completely disregard the rights of those they berate. I will now retire once and for all from the generator debate, or is that debacle!
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Sunday 1st of November 2020 09:08:12 AM
I understand your view on this topic Rod but it is not a question of whether something is legal or illegal, it is more about consideration for the people around you and the habitat.
Practising the bag pipes or the bass drum is not illegal but I am sure if someone pulled up next to you and advised you that they were about to commence a two hour practice session then you would not be too impressed.
One of the joys of the caravanning life is being able to listen to and enjoy the sounds of nature. The noise of someone's generator humming away so some air head can watch television or run the air conditioner is infuriating to me. I wonder why these people need to go bush. Why not just camp out in the loungeroom or sit in their caravan underneath their car port at home if they can't survive without the suburban pleasures.
If I stop at a truck stop and the refrigerated vehicle is next to me, well so be it. That is their domain.
The one thing that really irritates me is when some clown pulls up, presents the generator and looks about as if to say,"the gennie is going on soon. You're all warned, if you don't like it leave now". Another one is the mealy mouthed moron that announces in a mealy mouthed voice that they need the generator for the breathing machine. Funnily enough, the breathing machine must also need the air conditioner and the television going full blast for it to operate properly.
It is not a question of legality. It is a question of consideration. There is a reason why most people like to go bush and experience nature and it is not to hear someone's generator. There is a reason why they are not allowed in National Parks and it is not just the comfort of other campers.
Generators were made for a purpose. Usually it was for work related operations when mains power was not available or for areas that either did not have mains power or an unreliable connection to mains power. The fact that some of the camping community latched onto them and now cannot survive without them does not give them legitimacy.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 1st of November 2020 09:20:05 AM
What an absolutely brilliant post,DMaxer! (Do you have a name?) I have highlighted a couple of points that,to me,are simple logic,but many of the points you raise may be beyond the comprehension of some? Great post! As an aside,somewhere I noticed a mention of Bunnerong Power Station, which was demolished in 1987,amid a huge cloud of Asbestos-ridden dust. Coincidentally,I was actively involved in this demolition,with my excavator and hammer (rockbreaker) lifted,by crane,waaaay up on to the top floor.Working almost blindly in pitch black,with coal and asbestos dust making the headlights almost useless,it was my job to hammer the concrete off the dozens of huge support columns to expose the steel beams inside,so that the demolition experts could affix their "jelly" to them,to blow the place up. Over a period of weeks we worked our way down to the ground floor,and at night there were armed guards on site to prevent any sabotage attempts.When it all was blown up,in about June 1987,from memory,there was a huge dust cloud over Sydney for some time.With all the OH&S garbage these days,we would never be allowed to do it the way we did. Oh,the good old days! Once again,DMaxer,thanks for this great post.Just because something is legal does not necessarily make it right.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 1st of November 2020 07:47:14 PM
Hi Colin DMaxer,
I certainly agree that there are different circumstances may exist when someone is using a generator for camping.
Your view and input certainly reinforces that situation.
From my first post on page one of this topic I said........
Be considerate with its use if others choose to camp near you.
With every post on the topic of generators for camping there are a certain few on these forums that insist on defending their choice of solar with ridicule rather than consider the fact that most vans do have some solar and to carry and use a generator is generally for a back up situation. If the average traveller can do an overnight or two or as in my case with my old van up to 5 days when sunny conditions prevail this is what they do and the generator stays in the boot or as some now claim, at home.
Unfortunately the use or lack of use by the majority is completely overlooked by some contributors and their method is to state the worse case scenarios, probably a bit similar to the constant debate how there is only one ute that can tow certain weights regardless of how another person loads and uses his vehicle. But lets not bring that up as it is the same ridicule that some are forced to bear by a minority who push their barrow because it what is they have done, purchased or built and not how another operates his equipment.
The view of being critical about generators is more about satisfying the value of their decisions than is the actual assessment of the value of having a generator when you have not built a solar powerhouse on top of your van and vehicle and hence my comment in my post above....
A generator is a useful piece of equipment for camping and if it fits your needs then use it.
If generators arent for you because you have a solar fit up that would equal Bunnerong output, ( is Bunnerong still operating?) then dont come up with lame excuses about air and noise pollution when it is actually only your need to feed your own ego.
My point is if someone needs a generator to be used with consideration and its use is to supplement there power supply then they should be able to make a decision based on fact rather than hype or ridicule.
Colin, I would be most upset if I camped next to a bagpiper, definitely a lot more than the bloke with the foghorn voice that talks for an hour on his phone.
Regards
Rob
Do you still make a living selling solar......asking for a friend?
Regards
Rob
That is just the point Rob. In my view there is no consideration for anyone the minute you turn your generator on. It's a bit like saying "I am only hitting my wife lightly" or " I am only stealing things that are not too expensive for the owner to replace". The use shows people don't care less about their fellow campers. The two hours or so they are running the bloody thing might just be the two hours that a fellow camper would have liked to relax and listen to nature, the sound of a river or the sound of the sea. Instead, some moron has their Honda thumping away so they don't get too hot or miss any episodes of The Bachelor.
Rob, it is camping. Living in the great outdoors with all the elements makes camping and caravanning one of the most fabulous pastimes in the World. I am not a solar fanatic. I have one panel on my van and one battery and that runs everything for me. The fridge and HWS work on gas and I have about 200 litres of water. If I want the air conditioner I go to a park or showground. The generator lovers must sit and home and think "I can't wait to go out bush. I can lock myself in the van, turn on the air conditioner and the Tv whilst the generator thumps away outside. That's the life".
TheHeaths:
I have a Honda EU20i 2kw generator, it is quiet but certainly not
silent. At power levels up to about 500W it cannot be heard more than
about 25m distant, as the power drawn increases to maximum that
distance probably doubles. At 500W at 10m its noise is noticeable but
not uncomfortable.
Dmaxer:
You seem like a decent and sensible bloke (I have my fingers crossed)
so I ask myself why is it you do not camp further away from others as
do I? And I do it for the reasons you mention: I don't wish others
intruding into my space and I like to "commune with nature man" but
if you camp with others that's rarely going to happen as there are a
lot of w@nkers out there. If it's not generators it'll be music or
TVs or domestics or feral kids (adults!?). On the rare occasions I do
stay in popular sites I simply pack up and move on if someone is
doing something which annoys me. This is one of the reasons I chose
to go nomad; I did not wish to be stuck with bad neighbours in the
final years of my life.
iirc you are in Qld and surely must be able to find remote spots
there? I have no trouble doing so in Vic.
I'm currently camped on the bank of the Murray River, 20m from the
water. It's a holiday weekend in Vic and there have been perhaps a
dozen or more boats sailing up and down with their noisy outboards, I
find them a little irritating... should I ask them to stop?
You are only missing one important point there DMAXER, last time I checked, we still live in a free country. But, I will say you are not alone, some on here (like yourself) struggle with that. Chill Cobber and travel safe.
I am on your team Aussie 1.
And it is my belief that I have lived through the best years whilst on planet earth.
I am not a supporter of all this climate change and I certainly do not agree with the way our kids are being brain washed about the future.
Jesus, nobody can predict the future . If you think you can then how about giving me the 6 gold lotto numbers in the M$$$$ draw next Saturday.
Yep!!! Hence my view is that I have been one of the many lucky ones to have lived from the 40's to 2020.
I really fear for my Grandkids and their future.
But it is what it is...
And by the way back to Gennies.
We never leave home without our Gennie.
Happy days
Jay&Dee