Simple Weights Calculator for Car, Axle Loads and Caravan
Mike Harding said
06:09 PM Nov 19, 2020
yobarr wrote:
Mike's figures come from the owners manual of a car with rear axle capacity of a very low 1600kg.Do you really think they're going to say he should run 300kg ball weight? (10%)
So you are suggesting Holden are being deceptive and deceiving customers in their Trailblazers owner's manual?
yobarr said
06:23 PM Nov 19, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike's figures come from the owners manual of a car with rear axle capacity of a very low 1600kg.Do you really think they're going to say he should run 300kg ball weight? (10%)
So you are suggesting Holden are being deceptive and deceiving customers in their Trailblazers owner's manual?
Of course not...why would any manufacturer possibly seek to deceive customers? Cheers
Mike Harding said
06:29 PM Nov 19, 2020
yobarr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike's figures come from the owners manual of a car with rear axle capacity of a very low 1600kg.Do you really think they're going to say he should run 300kg ball weight? (10%)
So you are suggesting Holden are being deceptive and deceiving customers in their Trailblazers owner's manual?
Of course not...why would any manufacturer possibly seek to deceive customers? Cheers
But, Yobarr, they do say 10% or 300kg for single axel trailers?
Or have I misunderstood things?
yobarr said
06:46 PM Nov 19, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike's figures come from the owners manual of a car with rear axle capacity of a very low 1600kg.Do you really think they're going to say he should run 300kg ball weight? (10%)
So you are suggesting Holden are being deceptive and deceiving customers in their Trailblazers owner's manual?
Of course not...why would any manufacturer possibly seek to deceive customers? Cheers
But, Yobarr, they do say 10% or 300kg for single axel trailers?
Or have I misunderstood things?
Hi Mike...so a car manufacturer has the ability to change the laws of physics? With a dual axle caravan,the lower the ball weight the greater is the ability of the van to control the car because of the extra weight carried on the lead axle,and the lower weight on the car's rear axle. Simple physics again.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 20th of November 2020 06:20:59 AM
Mike Harding said
07:07 PM Nov 19, 2020
yobarr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike's figures come from the owners manual of a car with rear axle capacity of a very low 1600kg.Do you really think they're going to say he should run 300kg ball weight? (10%)
So you are suggesting Holden are being deceptive and deceiving customers in their Trailblazers owner's manual?
Of course not...why would any manufacturer possibly seek to deceive customers? Cheers
But, Yobarr, they do say 10% or 300kg for single axel trailers?
Or have I misunderstood things?
Hi Mike...so a Chinese/Korean car manufacturer has the ability to change the laws of physics? With a dual axle caravan,the lower the ball weight the greater is the ability of the van to control the car because of the extra weight carried on the lead axle,and the lower weight on the car's rear axle. Simple physics again.Cheers
So is my Holden Trailblazer owner's manual right or wrong Yobarr?
yobarr said
07:25 PM Nov 19, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Mike's figures come from the owners manual of a car with rear axle capacity of a very low 1600kg.Do you really think they're going to say he should run 300kg ball weight? (10%)
So you are suggesting Holden are being deceptive and deceiving customers in their Trailblazers owner's manual?
Of course not...why would any manufacturer possibly seek to deceive customers? Cheers
But, Yobarr, they do say 10% or 300kg for single axel trailers?
Or have I misunderstood things?
Hi Mike...so a car manufacturer has the ability to change the laws of physics? With a dual axle caravan,the lower the ball weight the greater is the ability of the van to control the car because of the extra weight carried on the lead axle,and the lower weight on the car's rear axle. Simple physics again.Cheers
So is my Holden Trailblazer owner's manual right or wrong Yobarr?
Hi Mike...only you can make that decision,but a bit of reasearch into physics may help you reach a conclusion.Good luck.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 19th of November 2020 07:44:21 PM
Mike Harding said
07:32 PM Nov 19, 2020
yobarr wrote: Hi Mike...only you can make that decision,but a bit of reasearch into physics may help you reach a conclusion.Good luck.Cheers
Not at all, you can make it too, as you often have.
Yobarr: if you set yourself up as an arbiter of all things weights then you have to be prepared to put up or shut up....
Bill B said
07:40 PM Nov 19, 2020
Mike Harding wrote: eers
So is my Holden Trailblazer owner's manual right or wrong Yobarr?
It must be wrong Mike
Radar said
09:08 PM Nov 19, 2020
Bill B wrote:
Mike Harding wrote: eers
So is my Holden Trailblazer owner's manual right or wrong Yobarr?
It must be wrong Mike
Well! For what its worth, I am giggling.
Just luv the humour.
Gundog said
10:03 AM Nov 20, 2020
I have intentionally stayed out of this thread for as long as I could, too much miss information is being written.
In the first place your owners manual is the the bible (because I dont think they pull the numbers out of their backsides, a certain amount of R&D must be done to support their limits.)
Secondly there is far too much BS about towball weights being written, and its not just a one size fits all consideration, what is the dfference of cause and effect between load sharing and non load sharing axles.
There is one major failing when ball weight is discussed, Towball weight is a static weight of a trailer when loaded, as soon as it is attached to a vehicle it becomes irrelevant.
For what its worth I would rather have the weight removed from the front axle returned to it when load is applied to the towbar and ensuring both the tow vehicle and trailer(caravan aka pig trailer) are level.
Mike Harding said
01:42 PM Nov 20, 2020
Gundog wrote:In the first place your owners manual is the the bible
Yep.
HandyWalter said
03:33 PM Nov 20, 2020
Gundog wrote:
For what its worth I would rather have the weight removed from the front axle returned to it when load is applied to the towbar and ensuring both the tow vehicle and trailer(caravan aka pig trailer) are level.
Gundog, I would like to know how you could do this. Is it possible? FWIW, I only know of one or two brands of vehicle that state reducing GVM when you load up the tow bar or in fact go off road with anything hooked up to the towbar. I am sure that is something to do with rear axle loads, and chassis protection. Having seen many a bent chassis in the outback, I am sure that is not written in the "bibles" of a lot of brands. Peanuts on order as I dont like popcorn!!
jontee said
03:37 PM Nov 20, 2020
G`day Yobar ,
I think it`s more to do with common sense than physics .
Cheers,
Jontee .
yobarr said
03:50 PM Nov 20, 2020
jontee wrote:
G`day Yobar , I think it`s more to do with common sense than physics . Cheers, Jontee .
Agreed John....just seems that common sense is not too common.Cheers
Mike Harding said
04:10 PM Nov 20, 2020
yobarr wrote: Agreed John....just seems that common sense is not too common.Cheers
And is it only the people who agree with you who have it?
yobarr said
05:18 PM Nov 20, 2020
HandyWalter wrote:
Gundog wrote:
For what its worth I would rather have the weight removed from the front axle returned to it when load is applied to the towbar and ensuring both the tow vehicle and trailer(caravan aka pig trailer) are level.
Gundog, I would like to know how you could do this. Is it possible? FWIW, I only know of one or two brands of vehicle that state reducing GVM when you load up the tow bar or in fact go off road with anything hooked up to the towbar. I am sure that is something to do with rear axle loads, and chassis protection. Having seen many a bent chassis in the outback, I am sure that is not written in the "bibles" of a lot of brands. Peanuts on order as I dont like popcorn!!
Walter,might I suggest that you're venturing in to areas where some may be totally confused? If you're running at your ATM,and you then fit a WDH,and tension it,instantly you are over your ATM,overloaded,unsafe and uninsured.Keeping the car level is of little importance in the scheme of things,but may be an issue on caravans without load sharing suspension.Some people will believe anything that is written by car manufacturers whose sole aim is to sell cars.Cheers
Maccanak said
08:18 PM Nov 20, 2020
Arnt you just returning the towball weight to the vans axles meaning your still with in your ATM? If your ball weight was 300 kg surely you don't transfer more than 300kg to the vans axles with a WDH as some of the weight is also pushed forward on front axles.
Obviously you possibly could if you tensioned it up to the nines
-- Edited by Maccanak on Friday 20th of November 2020 11:03:00 PM
yobarr said
08:43 PM Nov 20, 2020
Maccanak wrote:
Arnt you just returning the towball weight to the vans axles meaning your still with in your ATM? If your ball weight was 300 kg surely you don't transfer more than 300kg to the vans axles with a WDH as some of the weight is also pushed forward on front axles.
Obviously you possibly could if you tensioned it up to the nines
-- Edited by Maccanak on Friday 20th of November 2020 08:19:21 PM
Brad,it seems that you have little idea of the workings of a WDH,which does NOT change towball weight.What a WDH does,when tensioned,is remove weight from the rear axle of the car.Some of that weight....around 70% is returned to the car's front axle,with the rest being transferred to the van's axle group.The percentage of weight that is transferred to these axles is dependent on wheelbase,TBO,and the distance from the hitch point to the. van's axle group.With my car,removing 100kg from the car's rear axle resulted in the front axle gaining 66kg and the van's axle group gaining 34kg. Because the van already was at its ATM rating of 3500kg before that weight was transferred,instantly it was over its ATM. The weight on the wheels of the car had reduced by 34kg and the weight on van wheels had increased by 34kg.Towball weight did not change.Cheers
P.S If you enter "The effects of using a WDH" into the search box above,you will find a thread dated May 6 2020 where all is explained.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 21st of November 2020 03:09:05 AM
Maccanak said
08:56 PM Nov 20, 2020
No worries cheers for that, I don't use a WDH and don't plan to.
yobarr said
09:05 PM Nov 20, 2020
Maccanak wrote:
No worries cheers for that, I don't use a WDH and don't plan to.
Good decision....many times I have said that a WDH is used only by those who are trying to make a car do things for which it was not designed. Cheers
Gundog said
05:47 PM Nov 21, 2020
yobarr wrote:
Maccanak wrote:
No worries cheers for that, I don't use a WDH and don't plan to.
Good decision....many times I have said that a WDH is used only by those who are trying to make a car do things for which it was not designed. Cheers
Seems you are a self confessed expert about almost everything in regards to weights and distribution, please expand how you return weight that was revoved from the front axle when the pig trailer is attached to the towing vehicle.
Oh I forgot many vehicle manufactures require the use of a weight distribution device, when certain towing loads are exceeded, duh again I will beleive the vehicles owners manual and manufacturers towing guide before some self proclaimed expert.
HandyWalter said
06:31 PM Nov 21, 2020
Gundog wrote:
Oh I forgot many vehicle manufactures require the use of a weight distribution device, when certain towing loads are exceeded, duh again I will beleive the vehicles owners manual and manufacturers towing guide before some self proclaimed expert.
And some car manufacturers say NEVER to use a WDH. And as I said before, some say to reduce payload (ie GVM) when going over certain weights and on certain terrain. It seems to me that there is no general rule you can apply that suits all vehicles. As I said I dont think some manufacturers print the whole picture (truth) on what their vehicle can tow or be loaded up with on all terrain, other than to print the whole grail of the vehicle can tow 3.5T. Too many fail not even loaded to the max to suggest that the handbook was written for certain road/conditions, not all conditions. Those that think the manufacturers print the truth only have to see the claimed KLH as apposed to what we all really get on the open road or around town, So do they tell the truth? Only for clinical conditions not real life conditions. I think the same can be said on what cars can tow or not tow and what loads they can carry or not carry IN ALL CONDITIONS.!!
Peanut bowl replenished!!
yobarr said
07:43 PM Nov 21, 2020
Gundog wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Maccanak wrote:
No worries cheers for that, I don't use a WDH and don't plan to.
Good decision....many times I have said that a WDH is used only by those who are trying to make a car do things for which it was not designed. Cheers
Seems you are a self confessed expert about almost everything in regards to weights and distribution, please expand how you return weight that was revoved from the front axle when the pig trailer is attached to the towing vehicle.
Oh I forgot many vehicle manufactures require the use of a weight distribution device, when certain towing loads are exceeded, duh again I will beleive the vehicles owners manual and manufacturers towing guide before some self proclaimed expert.
Graham,thankyou for your kind words. You ask how weight is returned to the car's rear axle after a pig trailer has been attached.You may/should know that never will a WDH be able to return ALL the weight that was removed from the front axle of the car.The best figure you will achieve is about 70% of removed/transferred weight.I suggest that if your car is so unbalanced that you need the return of,say,a miserable 100kg (70% of 140kg transferred) to get your weights right,the car is entirely unsuitable for your needs? This question may well confuse you,but do you think that, maybe, car manufacturers recommend the using of a WDH simply to get a bit of weight off the rear axle of a car that they realise is not really up to the task,thus enabling them to claim "3500kg towing capacity". When we see cars with rear axle ratings of 1770kg to 1850kg being promoted as being able to "tow 3500kg",anybody with any understanding of weights would be suspicious. There no doubt are many people that,deep down,know that their car is not really suitable to safely tow 3500kg,but seek reassurance from others who may have an equal lack of knowledge,or any sort of an understanding of physics. Again,I will remind you that,if safety is of any concern, the weight on the wheels of the car should be at least 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van.People who think that they can safely tow a 3500kg van behind a car with a GCM rating of 6000kg are dreaming.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 22nd of November 2020 10:54:29 AM
Gundog said
09:23 AM Nov 23, 2020
yobarr wrote:
Gundog wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Maccanak wrote:
No worries cheers for that, I don't use a WDH and don't plan to.
Good decision....many times I have said that a WDH is used only by those who are trying to make a car do things for which it was not designed. Cheers
Seems you are a self confessed expert about almost everything in regards to weights and distribution, please expand how you return weight that was revoved from the front axle when the pig trailer is attached to the towing vehicle.
Oh I forgot many vehicle manufactures require the use of a weight distribution device, when certain towing loads are exceeded, duh again I will beleive the vehicles owners manual and manufacturers towing guide before some self proclaimed expert.
Graham,thankyou for your kind words. You ask how weight is returned to the car's rear axle after a pig trailer has been attached.You may/should know that never will a WDH be able to return ALL the weight that was removed from the front axle of the car.The best figure you will achieve is about 70% of removed/transferred weight.I suggest that if your car is so unbalanced that you need the return of,say,a miserable 100kg (70% of 140kg transferred) to get your weights right,the car is entirely unsuitable for your needs? This question may well confuse you,but do you think that, maybe, car manufacturers recommend the using of a WDH simply to get a bit of weight off the rear axle of a car that they realise is not really up to the task,thus enabling them to claim "3500kg towing capacity". When we see cars with rear axle ratings of 1770kg to 1850kg being promoted as being able to "tow 3500kg",anybody with any understanding of weights would be suspicious. There no doubt are many people that,deep down,know that their car is not really suitable to safely tow 3500kg,but seek reassurance from others who may have an equal lack of knowledge,or any sort of an understanding of physics. Again,I will remind you that,if safety is of any concern, the weight on the wheels of the car should be at least 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van.People who think that they can safely tow a 3500kg van behind a car with a GCM rating of 6000kg are dreaming.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 22nd of November 2020 10:54:29 AM
You seem to have a fixation about being able to tow 3500kg, there would be very high percentage of vaners who are towing far less than that.
Reality is, if you need to distribute weight back to the front axle then there is only one method in which you can acheive this, and that is the correct setup and installation of a weight distribution hitch. Despite you and many other naysayers who realy dont understand its application, and this is evident by the amount of poorly setup outfits I see everyday.
I am not advocating that everyone should or need to use a WDH, but when they are a requirement then it is prudent that they are setup correctly. Its amazing the lengths that some will go to to avoid using a WDH even when its recommended or a requirement, beefed up springs, helper springs and air bags do nothing just like raising the ball higher than the coupling height.
To those who think I'm blowing wind up your klacker, my Ranger requires the use of weight distribution when towing loads inexcess of 1800kg, I am also limited to a max ball weight of 250kg, and the towing capacity is 2951kg. When coupled the van and ute are 62kg under the GCM at the last time I weighed it, but suspect since cleaning out lots of unused items from the van and ute I would be somewhere around 130kg under.
iana said
10:12 AM Nov 23, 2020
The one problem I have with all this, is that a car or SUV is designed to carry passengers in the back seats, with a reasonable amount of comfort i.e. soft suspension, and perhaps a couple of suit cases. Where as a utility is designed to carry loads on the back, your Ranger is designed to carry a load max of 1200kg. Now surely the manufacturer is not going to send out Utes, light trucks etc, that are dangerous to drive when fully loaded. So what we have are two different types of vehicles, and so the situations must be different. By all means a WDH is necessary for the cars S/W's and SUV's, but vehicles designed to carry a load on the rear are different.
So I take my Ute, no passengers, put a ton pallet on the back, and now its unsafe to drive ! That will put all our couriers out of business quick smart.
paulb25 said
05:19 PM Nov 25, 2020
Maccanak wrote:
No worries cheers for that, I don't use a WDH and don't plan to.
Hi Maccanak
Just wondering why do you prefer not to use WDH. I tend not to use them either, as I do not like the amount of torque applied to the rear of the tug. I am relatively new to towing caravans, I had mine for about 2.5 years and done about 30000km. Most of it without WDH. I have probably used it for some 3000km. The only difference I have noticed was less porpoising on uneven roads I have not detected any diference in lateral stability. The combination seem very stable. However I have nothing to compare to as this is my first caravan.
Also in your spreadsheet you seem to use tare / kerb interchangeably. The the definition tare only includes 10l of fuel. Kerb includes a full tank of fuel.
A final point, the kerb weight of the 200 in the Toyota specs is indeed 2740 across the board, however some may be heavier. I have a VX and it is 2820kg, after I have removed the third row of seats (about 19kg each). A most unpleasant surprise for me.
Cheers
Paul
-- Edited by paulb25 on Wednesday 25th of November 2020 05:21:05 PM
NIJ55 said
05:08 PM Jun 3, 2021
Hi, Thanks for the spreadsheet as I have a 2018 LC 200 and ordering a JB Scorpion Sting with adding air, My LC is stock standard and from what I can tell using you sheet I shall require a 3800 GVM upgrade, Thanks again.
yobarr said
05:52 PM Jun 3, 2021
NIJ55 wrote:
Hi, Thanks for the spreadsheet as I have a 2018 LC 200 and ordering a JB Scorpion Sting with adding air, My LC is stock standard and from what I can tell using you sheet I shall require a 3800 GVM upgrade, Thanks again.
Hi Nigel. Because you are a new member,you may not fully understand weights and the effects of GVM upgrades.The BIG problem with the LC200 is its lightweight rear axle,which is rated at a miserable 1950kg.Spending big dollars on a GVM upgrade increases that to 2000kg,a gain of only 50kg! Spare me. A GVM upgrade is great if you plan to use the CAR for touring etc,as you have a much higher carrying capacity,and you can get weight ONTO the front axle,but a PIG trailer (caravan) takes weight OFF that front axle,and transfers it to the rear axle,which is the LC200s weak point. No matter what rubbish you may be fed by people with an agenda,an LC200 cannot ever safely tow more than 3000kg as a PIG trailer.Cheers
P.S Just did a bit of sniffing around,and found these specs that I think are for your proposed van? That being the case,if safety is of ANY concern, forget that van,or buy a more suitable tow vehicle.Happy to give (another) detailed explanation of why this is the case.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 3rd of June 2021 07:18:56 PM
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 3rd of June 2021 07:26:15 PM
So you are suggesting Holden are being deceptive and deceiving customers in their Trailblazers owner's manual?
Of course not...why would any manufacturer possibly seek to deceive customers? Cheers
But, Yobarr, they do say 10% or 300kg for single axel trailers?
Or have I misunderstood things?
Hi Mike...so a car manufacturer has the ability to change the laws of physics? With a dual axle caravan,the lower the ball weight the greater is the ability of the van to control the car because of the extra weight carried on the lead axle,and the lower weight on the car's rear axle. Simple physics again.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 20th of November 2020 06:20:59 AM
So is my Holden Trailblazer owner's manual right or wrong Yobarr?
Hi Mike...only you can make that decision,but a bit of reasearch into physics may help you reach a conclusion.Good luck.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 19th of November 2020 07:44:21 PM
Not at all, you can make it too, as you often have.
Yobarr: if you set yourself up as an arbiter of all things weights then you have to be prepared to put up or shut up....
So is my Holden Trailblazer owner's manual right or wrong Yobarr?
It must be wrong Mike
Well! For what its worth, I am giggling.
Just luv the humour.
I have intentionally stayed out of this thread for as long as I could, too much miss information is being written.
In the first place your owners manual is the the bible (because I dont think they pull the numbers out of their backsides, a certain amount of R&D must be done to support their limits.)
Secondly there is far too much BS about towball weights being written, and its not just a one size fits all consideration, what is the dfference of cause and effect between load sharing and non load sharing axles.
There is one major failing when ball weight is discussed, Towball weight is a static weight of a trailer when loaded, as soon as it is attached to a vehicle it becomes irrelevant.
For what its worth I would rather have the weight removed from the front axle returned to it when load is applied to the towbar and ensuring both the tow vehicle and trailer(caravan aka pig trailer) are level.
Yep.
Gundog, I would like to know how you could do this. Is it possible? FWIW, I only know of one or two brands of vehicle that state reducing GVM when you load up the tow bar or in fact go off road with anything hooked up to the towbar. I am sure that is something to do with rear axle loads, and chassis protection. Having seen many a bent chassis in the outback, I am sure that is not written in the "bibles" of a lot of brands. Peanuts on order as I dont like popcorn!!
I think it`s more to do with common sense than physics .
Cheers,
Jontee .
Agreed John....just seems that common sense is not too common.Cheers
And is it only the people who agree with you who have it?
Walter,might I suggest that you're venturing in to areas where some may be totally confused? If you're running at your ATM,and you then fit a WDH,and tension it,instantly you are over your ATM,overloaded,unsafe and uninsured.Keeping the car level is of little importance in the scheme of things,but may be an issue on caravans without load sharing suspension.Some people will believe anything that is written by car manufacturers whose sole aim is to sell cars.Cheers
Arnt you just returning the towball weight to the vans axles meaning your still with in your ATM?
If your ball weight was 300 kg surely you don't transfer more than 300kg to the vans axles with a WDH as some of the weight is also pushed forward on front axles.
Obviously you possibly could if you tensioned it up to the nines
-- Edited by Maccanak on Friday 20th of November 2020 11:03:00 PM
Brad,it seems that you have little idea of the workings of a WDH,which does NOT change towball weight.What a WDH does,when tensioned,is remove weight from the rear axle of the car.Some of that weight....around 70% is returned to the car's front axle,with the rest being transferred to the van's axle group.The percentage of weight that is transferred to these axles is dependent on wheelbase,TBO,and the distance from the hitch point to the. van's axle group.With my car,removing 100kg from the car's rear axle resulted in the front axle gaining 66kg and the van's axle group gaining 34kg. Because the van already was at its ATM rating of 3500kg before that weight was transferred,instantly it was over its ATM. The weight on the wheels of the car had reduced by 34kg and the weight on van wheels had increased by 34kg.Towball weight did not change.Cheers
P.S If you enter "The effects of using a WDH" into the search box above,you will find a thread dated May 6 2020 where all is explained.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 21st of November 2020 03:09:05 AM
Good decision....many times I have said that a WDH is used only by those who are trying to make a car do things for which it was not designed. Cheers
Seems you are a self confessed expert about almost everything in regards to weights and distribution, please expand how you return weight that was revoved from the front axle when the pig trailer is attached to the towing vehicle.
Oh I forgot many vehicle manufactures require the use of a weight distribution device, when certain towing loads are exceeded, duh again I will beleive the vehicles owners manual and manufacturers towing guide before some self proclaimed expert.
And some car manufacturers say NEVER to use a WDH. And as I said before, some say to reduce payload (ie GVM) when going over certain weights and on certain terrain. It seems to me that there is no general rule you can apply that suits all vehicles. As I said I dont think some manufacturers print the whole picture (truth) on what their vehicle can tow or be loaded up with on all terrain, other than to print the whole grail of the vehicle can tow 3.5T. Too many fail not even loaded to the max to suggest that the handbook was written for certain road/conditions, not all conditions. Those that think the manufacturers print the truth only have to see the claimed KLH as apposed to what we all really get on the open road or around town, So do they tell the truth? Only for clinical conditions not real life conditions. I think the same can be said on what cars can tow or not tow and what loads they can carry or not carry IN ALL CONDITIONS.!!
Peanut bowl replenished!!
Graham,thankyou for your kind words. You ask how weight is returned to the car's rear axle after a pig trailer has been attached.You may/should know that never will a WDH be able to return ALL the weight that was removed from the front axle of the car.The best figure you will achieve is about 70% of removed/transferred weight.I suggest that if your car is so unbalanced that you need the return of,say,a miserable 100kg (70% of 140kg transferred) to get your weights right,the car is entirely unsuitable for your needs? This question may well confuse you,but do you think that, maybe, car manufacturers recommend the using of a WDH simply to get a bit of weight off the rear axle of a car that they realise is not really up to the task,thus enabling them to claim "3500kg towing capacity". When we see cars with rear axle ratings of 1770kg to 1850kg being promoted as being able to "tow 3500kg",anybody with any understanding of weights would be suspicious. There no doubt are many people that,deep down,know that their car is not really suitable to safely tow 3500kg,but seek reassurance from others who may have an equal lack of knowledge,or any sort of an understanding of physics. Again,I will remind you that,if safety is of any concern, the weight on the wheels of the car should be at least 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van.People who think that they can safely tow a 3500kg van behind a car with a GCM rating of 6000kg are dreaming.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 22nd of November 2020 10:54:29 AM
You seem to have a fixation about being able to tow 3500kg, there would be very high percentage of vaners who are towing far less than that.
Reality is, if you need to distribute weight back to the front axle then there is only one method in which you can acheive this, and that is the correct setup and installation of a weight distribution hitch. Despite you and many other naysayers who realy dont understand its application, and this is evident by the amount of poorly setup outfits I see everyday.
I am not advocating that everyone should or need to use a WDH, but when they are a requirement then it is prudent that they are setup correctly. Its amazing the lengths that some will go to to avoid using a WDH even when its recommended or a requirement, beefed up springs, helper springs and air bags do nothing just like raising the ball higher than the coupling height.
To those who think I'm blowing wind up your klacker, my Ranger requires the use of weight distribution when towing loads inexcess of 1800kg, I am also limited to a max ball weight of 250kg, and the towing capacity is 2951kg. When coupled the van and ute are 62kg under the GCM at the last time I weighed it, but suspect since cleaning out lots of unused items from the van and ute I would be somewhere around 130kg under.
So I take my Ute, no passengers, put a ton pallet on the back, and now its unsafe to drive ! That will put all our couriers out of business quick smart.
Hi Maccanak
Just wondering why do you prefer not to use WDH. I tend not to use them either, as I do not like the amount of torque applied to the rear of the tug. I am relatively new to towing caravans, I had mine for about 2.5 years and done about 30000km. Most of it without WDH. I have probably used it for some 3000km. The only difference I have noticed was less porpoising on uneven roads I have not detected any diference in lateral stability. The combination seem very stable. However I have nothing to compare to as this is my first caravan.
Also in your spreadsheet you seem to use tare / kerb interchangeably. The the definition tare only includes 10l of fuel. Kerb includes a full tank of fuel.
A final point, the kerb weight of the 200 in the Toyota specs is indeed 2740 across the board, however some may be heavier. I have a VX and it is 2820kg, after I have removed the third row of seats (about 19kg each). A most unpleasant surprise for me.
Cheers
Paul
-- Edited by paulb25 on Wednesday 25th of November 2020 05:21:05 PM
Hi, Thanks for the spreadsheet as I have a 2018 LC 200 and ordering a JB Scorpion Sting with adding air, My LC is stock standard and from what I can tell using you sheet I shall require a 3800 GVM upgrade, Thanks again.
Hi Nigel. Because you are a new member,you may not fully understand weights and the effects of GVM upgrades.The BIG problem with the LC200 is its lightweight rear axle,which is rated at a miserable 1950kg.Spending big dollars on a GVM upgrade increases that to 2000kg,a gain of only 50kg! Spare me. A GVM upgrade is great if you plan to use the CAR for touring etc,as you have a much higher carrying capacity,and you can get weight ONTO the front axle,but a PIG trailer (caravan) takes weight OFF that front axle,and transfers it to the rear axle,which is the LC200s weak point. No matter what rubbish you may be fed by people with an agenda,an LC200 cannot ever safely tow more than 3000kg as a PIG trailer.Cheers
P.S Just did a bit of sniffing around,and found these specs that I think are for your proposed van? That being the case,if safety is of ANY concern, forget that van,or buy a more suitable tow vehicle.Happy to give (another) detailed explanation of why this is the case.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 3rd of June 2021 07:18:56 PM
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 3rd of June 2021 07:26:15 PM