And 2 the muppets that though it would be good idea to dump millions of litres of SALT yes salt water on it to try and stop it .
You do realise that every day the winds dump salt spray on the Island and has been doing so since the formation of the Island. I doubt that the few plane loads will have any impact.
yes I do realise that there is salt spray at a beach Which is why there is different vegetation along the shore line to farther inland the salt spay on a normal day would be lucky to get 100 yards inland . few plane loads you say .... Do some research ... currently approaching 3 million litres and rising , if that's your idea of a few plane loads
No more comment from me on this environmental vandalism , time will tell .
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Sunday 6th of December 2020 09:22:06 AM
rgren2 said
09:19 AM Dec 6, 2020
I live inland a few k from the ocean, still get sand and salt around the house. The car windscreen needs to be cleaned whenever we get ocean breezes.
Aus-Kiwi said
01:55 PM Dec 6, 2020
Yea let the fires burn . Fair dinkum keyboard experts !! No wander we are in the trouble we are in ! Too many pit street experts, lobbyists pushing their agenda . Who have no idea !! Worst part is some are on gov payroll !!
yobarr said
02:34 PM Dec 6, 2020
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Yea let the fires burn . Fair dinkum keyboard experts !! No wander we are in the trouble we are in ! Too many pit street experts, lobbyists pushing their agenda . Who have no idea !! Worst part is some are on gov payroll !!
Graeme,what you say is absolutely true,but is apparently beyond the comprehension of many greenies and their ilk.Common sense dictates that if there is no fuel,there is no fire! Unfortunately,common sense is increasingly conspicuous by its absence among these clowns. Some years ago I read that there was a major blaze in a state forest,so one of the neighbouring farmers started using his D9 bulldozer to cut a fire trail to make access easier for the fire crews to get to the heart of the blaze,but somebody in "authority" decided that the blade was 300mm too wide,and stopped him.Details may not be 100% correct,but this event did take place.The problem is exacerbated by our children continually having all this climate change garbage shoved down their throats.....and they will one day become voters.Cheers
Aus-Kiwi said
02:52 PM Dec 6, 2020
Yes same with fires down Vic a few years back . A guy was fined for clearing around his house . His was one of very few that didnt burn !! Seems if its not done by Aboriginal people its illegal! Thats not a nark on them !! Theres no b common sense !! Back where I came from . We where never allowed long grass as its a vermin, fire hazard !! We had to top many acres! Which actually makes the grass grow sweeter anyway !! Another thing . What most DONT realise . Aust has very little to no top soil . Only in valleys ! Its washed down over the years . We have the highest erosion in the world ! Its always been that way way due to long periods of no rain then heaving down pours . So no matter how much is mulched or left on the hard clay ? It washes off the next down pour of rain !! Why gun type trees grow out in bush as its very few plants can tolerate having no top soil !! If greenies where so concerned about wildlife etc ? Why dont they practice what they preach and make nests , bird, animal breeding homes for them ? Instead of procrastinating what others are trying to achieve ! Yes there should be fire breaks out there ! Imo Atleast 300m wide . To prevent ground fire . Once it gets to tree tops it requires a larger gap !! But it all helps !
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Sunday 6th of December 2020 02:55:38 PM
Brodie Allen said
07:48 PM Dec 6, 2020
Here's some figures relating to my post that 85%of fires are started by humans:
Suspicious 37%
Deliberate 13%
Accidental 35%
Adds up to 85% on my calculator.
Natural 6%, Re-ignition 5%, Other 4%
and Mike Harding:
And as far as the kindergarten lighting fires - THINK EDUCATION! about managing and lighting in the first place.
Same with littering and other basic common sense matters that are sadly overlooked in our indoc - er - education system.
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Sunday 6th of December 2020 07:49:46 PM
Brodie Allen said
07:54 PM Dec 6, 2020
Something else comes to mind - I haven't got the reference handy, but it was reported that
salt water had to be used because the water on the island is somehow sacred or similar.
How many fair dinkum indigenous live on the island? anybody know?
Aus-Kiwi said
10:58 PM Dec 6, 2020
Like anything on ABC is fact these days ! Sheesh !
Possum3 said
11:17 AM Dec 7, 2020
Brodie Allen wrote:
Something else comes to mind - I haven't got the reference handy, but it was reported that salt water had to be used because the water on the island is somehow sacred or similar.
How many fair dinkum indigenous live on the island? anybody know?
Salt water extinguishes fires similarly to fresh, no bigee. Why waste fresh when brine is readily available around the island.
Regardless of how many indigenous now live permanently on Fraser (K'gari) the Butchulla people are the indigenous people of Fraser Island. Documented early history of the people of Fraser Island is incomplete and open to debate and discussion. Aboriginal people closely guard many of their traditions, legends and laws and after European settlement much of the evidence of the Fraser Island people's way of life was destroyed either intentionally or through ignorance.
outlaw40 said
11:43 AM Dec 7, 2020
Possum the problem with using salt water is the residually salt lelf behind when used in large quantities . Not sure what the count is up to now but yesterday alone there was approx 1.3 million litres dumped on the island . On my place i have a brackish creek , not saltjust brackish and as the water level drop there is a white salt layer left behind , nothing grows ....
outlaw40 said
11:45 AM Dec 7, 2020
Will be keeping screen shots of this thread for reference in a few years time when people are asking why there is so little vegetation on the island
Possum3 said
12:41 PM Dec 7, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
Possum the problem with using salt water is the residually salt lelf behind when used in large quantities .
1. Salt from ocean spray over generations would far surpass any residual from fire fighting.
2. Native flora and mangroves ingest salt.
3. Fraser's Lakes are elevated which would make it more difficult to load aerial tankers, than at sea level
4. To take large quantities of water from any of Fraser's Lakes would significantly alter water table of the surrounding areas. Fraser Island has over 40 lakes that can be found all over the island. It also is home to over half of the world's population of perched lakes, making it a unique and sought after destination.
outlaw40 said
12:59 PM Dec 7, 2020
I am not suggesting water should be take from the lakes .
Possum3 said
02:31 PM Dec 7, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
I am not suggesting water should be take from the lakes .
Burdekin Dam perhaps? Only adding approx. 2,000 Klm per refill.
outlaw40 said
03:34 PM Dec 7, 2020
Going to write this slowly for you possum .... I NEVER suggested that water from anywhere should be use so get off your high horse . As a matter of fact the island SHOULD have been burned 4 months ago when it was cool so it could have been done in a controlled manner . Now they are just wasting time , fuel and manpower trying to stop this . Get real protect the houses and let the rest burn out like they should have been doing all alone if the bleeding hearts had stayed out of it . The situation on the island right now can be blamed squarely at the feet of national parks and the green lobby .
Aus-Kiwi said
03:38 PM Dec 7, 2020
Just think before commenting ! What is Fraser Island made of ? Its NOT like the mainland !! If the fires are put out !! Which should have been done long ago . There would be little damage . But no do nothing blame, blame while sitting on their bums !
blaze said
03:52 PM Dec 7, 2020
fraser island will disapear from erosion caused by wind and rain, nothing holding the sand together
cheers
blaze
Kebbin said
04:27 PM Dec 7, 2020
Being the expert Graeme how are they going to put the fire out, it's a sand island many have already said dumping water on it is not going to stop it because it soaks in immediately, because it's a sand island!
They aren't going to put lives at risk by putting firefighters on the ground it's heavily vegetated with bush that is always tinder dry, because it's a sand island Graeme.
Give us mere mortals an idea of how it can be controlled. Maybe a weather witch Graeme, that could work.
The island will regenerate but that is little comfort for residents. I hope the red necked moron who started the fire suffers everytime he lights another campfire.
Idiots that think it's their right no matter the conditions.
outlaw40 said
04:34 PM Dec 7, 2020
Aus-kiwi ,thats very true BUT the problem isnt academic is it here and now and there are only 2 options available
1 let it burnout , yes there will be erosion and it will years to recover or.
2 chase your tail , throwmillions of gallons of salt water at it ,you may slow it but you will not stop it in the current conditions up here and itwill take twice as long to recover consequently twice as much erosion. They are the only 2 option for this fire , future management of the island needs to be hand back to the butchella people as a people who understand the management of the island
outlaw40 said
04:49 PM Dec 7, 2020
As a side note within the last 12 months management of moreton island was take off national parks after a bushfire this time last year and handed back to the original owners .
yobarr said
06:37 PM Dec 7, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
Going to write this slowly for you possum .... I NEVER suggested that water from anywhere should be use so get off your high horse . As a matter of fact the island SHOULD have been burned 4 months ago when it was cool so it could have been done in a controlled manner . Now they are just wasting time , fuel and manpower trying to stop this . Get real protect the houses and let the rest burn out like they should have been doing all alone if the bleeding hearts had stayed out of it . The situation on the island right now can be blamed squarely at the feet of national parks and the green lobby.
The green lobby.These people are the problem....not a brain between them,and happy without one.Cheers
Yes possum i can use google to BUT the butchella have not been give management of the nation park ,until that happens we will continue to have problems .... back to you .
Brodie Allen said
08:37 PM Dec 7, 2020
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Yep the fuel on the ground sure helped the wildlife the last 12 months !! What a load of rubbish . Fire doesnt burn without fuel !
And fuel doesn't burn without an ignition source.
Geez, what's it take to get the message across?
Phillipn said
09:14 PM Dec 7, 2020
Brodie Allen wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Yep the fuel on the ground sure helped the wildlife the last 12 months !! What a load of rubbish . Fire doesnt burn without fuel !
And fuel doesn't burn without an ignition source.
Geez, what's it take to get the message across?
"What`s it take to get they the message across"
When will they ever learn to do burn offs at least every second year to reduce the fuel load???? When a fire starts by what ever means, regular burn offs would stop tree top fires that are impossible to control.
When will the so called educated [ idoits] learn by their mistakes. My guess is never.
dabbler said
12:59 AM Dec 8, 2020
Write to your state member and demand more staff on the ground and more funding. Successive govts in all states have reduced NP staff and services over the years, probably because most voters don't think it's important. It's been a long time since NP staff numbers allowed more than a few hours in a info centre, a few hours cleaning facilities and a few hours track maintenance each day. There certainly isn't enough boots to perform back burning. Fraser Island was burning this time last year too.
msg said
11:17 AM Dec 8, 2020
Maybe a small bit of leeway. (not too much) We were all locked up etc. for a good part of the year.
Oh, and our first nation's fire policy. After greater than seventy years living in this country how come I have never heard of their methods until this year. I was taught at school they used fire to round up game. Though they have been lighting fires in the NT for some time. Now getting rid of the undergrowth is a good idea but ....
My thoughts, cut undergrowth in urban areas and clear away all debri, cut large firebreaks and maintaining access roads. And, have no urban development near wilderness areas and total fire ban for all of the summer period and long jail sentences for lawbreakers.
-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 8th of December 2020 11:33:58 AM
msg said
11:45 AM Dec 8, 2020
One curious thing about last summer's bush fires. I have never noticed so much smoke for such an extended period. And I was around for the Adelaide bushfires and the Canberra bushfires. Probably for a Dandenong ranges one too just too young to remember and can not remember so much smoke. The canberra fires in 2003 came to within a half a kilometre of home lots of ash but little smoke. Reason for smoke given, "extra hot fire because of climate change." My experience, with campfires, is the better and hotter a fire burns equals less smoke.
-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 8th of December 2020 11:48:07 AM
Kebbin said
12:15 PM Dec 8, 2020
It's called mosaic burning, the fires burnt hotter because most of the country burnt had been in an extended drought, as far as not hearing about different things msg well I could explain why but that would be against forum rules.
As I get older I cannot help but think that the Generations that come after the Builders & the Boomers will be much better equipped to tackle big issues as we are to stubborn and in a lot of cases to Trump like to even care.
Canadian fires.
yes I do realise that there is salt spray at a beach
Which is why there is different vegetation along the shore line to farther inland the salt spay on a normal day would be lucky to get 100 yards inland . few plane loads you say .... Do some research ... currently approaching 3 million litres and rising , if that's your idea of a few plane loads 
No more comment from me on this environmental vandalism , time will tell .
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Sunday 6th of December 2020 09:22:06 AM
Graeme,what you say is absolutely true,but is apparently beyond the comprehension of many greenies and their ilk.Common sense dictates that if there is no fuel,there is no fire! Unfortunately,common sense is increasingly conspicuous by its absence among these clowns. Some years ago I read that there was a major blaze in a state forest,so one of the neighbouring farmers started using his D9 bulldozer to cut a fire trail to make access easier for the fire crews to get to the heart of the blaze,but somebody in "authority" decided that the blade was 300mm too wide,and stopped him.Details may not be 100% correct,but this event did take place.The problem is exacerbated by our children continually having all this climate change garbage shoved down their throats.....and they will one day become voters.Cheers
Yes same with fires down Vic a few years back . A guy was fined for clearing around his house . His was one of very few that didnt burn !! Seems if its not done by Aboriginal people its illegal! Thats not a nark on them !! Theres no b common sense !! Back where I came from . We where never allowed long grass as its a vermin, fire hazard !! We had to top many acres! Which actually makes the grass grow sweeter anyway !! Another thing . What most DONT realise . Aust has very little to no top soil . Only in valleys ! Its washed down over the years . We have the highest erosion in the world ! Its always been that way way due to long periods of no rain then heaving down pours . So no matter how much is mulched or left on the hard clay ? It washes off the next down pour of rain !! Why gun type trees grow out in bush as its very few plants can tolerate having no top soil !! If greenies where so concerned about wildlife etc ? Why dont they practice what they preach and make nests , bird, animal breeding homes for them ? Instead of procrastinating what others are trying to achieve ! Yes there should be fire breaks out there ! Imo Atleast 300m wide . To prevent ground fire . Once it gets to tree tops it requires a larger gap !! But it all helps !
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Sunday 6th of December 2020 02:55:38 PM
Here's some figures relating to my post that 85%of fires are started by humans:
Suspicious 37%
Deliberate 13%
Accidental 35%
Adds up to 85% on my calculator.
Natural 6%, Re-ignition 5%, Other 4%
and Mike Harding:
And as far as the kindergarten lighting fires - THINK EDUCATION! about managing and lighting in the first place.
Same with littering and other basic common sense matters that are sadly overlooked in our indoc - er - education system.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-20/bushfire-ignition-source-how-we-know/11701132
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Sunday 6th of December 2020 07:49:46 PM
salt water had to be used because the water on the island is somehow sacred or similar.
How many fair dinkum indigenous live on the island? anybody know?
Salt water extinguishes fires similarly to fresh, no bigee. Why waste fresh when brine is readily available around the island.
Regardless of how many indigenous now live permanently on Fraser (K'gari) the Butchulla people are the indigenous people of Fraser Island. Documented early history of the people of Fraser Island is incomplete and open to debate and discussion. Aboriginal people closely guard many of their traditions, legends and laws and after European settlement much of the evidence of the Fraser Island people's way of life was destroyed either intentionally or through ignorance.
1. Salt from ocean spray over generations would far surpass any residual from fire fighting.
2. Native flora and mangroves ingest salt.
3. Fraser's Lakes are elevated which would make it more difficult to load aerial tankers, than at sea level
4. To take large quantities of water from any of Fraser's Lakes would significantly alter water table of the surrounding areas. Fraser Island has over 40 lakes that can be found all over the island. It also is home to over half of the world's population of perched lakes, making it a unique and sought after destination.
Burdekin Dam perhaps? Only adding approx. 2,000 Klm per refill.
cheers
blaze
They aren't going to put lives at risk by putting firefighters on the ground it's heavily vegetated with bush that is always tinder dry, because it's a sand island Graeme.
Give us mere mortals an idea of how it can be controlled. Maybe a weather witch Graeme, that could work.
The island will regenerate but that is little comfort for residents. I hope the red necked moron who started the fire suffers everytime he lights another campfire.
Idiots that think it's their right no matter the conditions.
The green lobby. These people are the problem....not a brain between them,and happy without one.Cheers
And fuel doesn't burn without an ignition source.
Geez, what's it take to get the message across?
"What`s it take to get they the message across"
When will they ever learn to do burn offs at least every second year to reduce the fuel load???? When a fire starts by what ever means, regular burn offs would stop tree top fires that are impossible to control.
When will the so called educated [ idoits] learn by their mistakes. My guess is never.
Maybe a small bit of leeway. (not too much) We were all locked up etc. for a good part of the year.
Oh, and our first nation's fire policy. After greater than seventy years living in this country how come I have never heard of their methods until this year. I was taught at school they used fire to round up game. Though they have been lighting fires in the NT for some time. Now getting rid of the undergrowth is a good idea but ....
My thoughts, cut undergrowth in urban areas and clear away all debri, cut large firebreaks and maintaining access roads. And, have no urban development near wilderness areas and total fire ban for all of the summer period and long jail sentences for lawbreakers.
-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 8th of December 2020 11:33:58 AM
One curious thing about last summer's bush fires. I have never noticed so much smoke for such an extended period. And I was around for the Adelaide bushfires and the Canberra bushfires. Probably for a Dandenong ranges one too just too young to remember and can not remember so much smoke. The canberra fires in 2003 came to within a half a kilometre of home lots of ash but little smoke. Reason for smoke given, "extra hot fire because of climate change." My experience, with campfires, is the better and hotter a fire burns equals less smoke.
-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 8th of December 2020 11:48:07 AM
As I get older I cannot help but think that the Generations that come after the Builders & the Boomers will be much better equipped to tackle big issues as we are to stubborn and in a lot of cases to Trump like to even care.