Nissan Patrol ST TD4.2 Turbo Diesel.....best Patrol ever built! Well chosen.Cheers
Thank goodness you approve - I was fearful of a sleepless night if you didn't.
No problem there Possum....all is good! I can well imagine how much sleep an ex-army man would lose if someone had the temerity to disagree with his choice of car! As Peter iin SA has said,your car doesn't have the "Look at me" appeal of the pretenders that abound,but you can be sure that it still will be going when the others have died.Cheers
bgt said
12:26 PM Jan 14, 2021
yobbar I have no issue with your logic. But governments will never upset the retiree vote.
It wont be governments that act. It will be the insurance companies.
I have a HR license. I've had a trailer pass me going around and around in the grass. I've changed my undies more than once while towing. I get it. But 'Bill Smith' doesn't get it. So pressure those who insure RVs. Pressure dealers to tell the truth. When an insurance company refuses to pay and the owner then takes action against the dealer things may change. MAY.
dogbox said
12:40 PM Jan 14, 2021
if you changed your undies more than once for the same reason, you didn't get it the first time
Possum3 said
12:47 PM Jan 14, 2021
Pusser!
bgt said
12:48 PM Jan 14, 2021
dogbox it's call young and stupid.
dogbox said
01:08 PM Jan 14, 2021
bgt wrote:
dogbox it's call young and stupid.
we have all been there
Craig1 said
02:31 PM Jan 14, 2021
B I L who passed away just over 12 months ago had one of the last Cab Chassis with the 4.2T. His family had lots of offers from young fella's. New owner maybe 28
dogbox said
06:47 PM Jan 14, 2021
Possum3 wrote:
Pusser!
please explain ?
yobarr said
07:10 PM Jan 14, 2021
bgt wrote:
yobbar I have no issue with your logic. But governments will never upset the retiree vote.
It wont be governments that act. It will be the insurance companies.
I have a HR license. I've had a trailer pass me going around and around in the grass. I've changed my undies more than once while towing. I get it. But 'Bill Smith' doesn't get it. So pressure those who insure RVs. Pressure dealers to tell the truth. When an insurance company refuses to pay and the owner then takes action against the dealer things may change. MAY.
Because I have held an MC (Road train) for many years,not much bothers me with weights.However,I don't know that it is the dealer's responsibility to ensure that any buyer is compliant with all towing laws?....at some stage one surely must put-on one's "Big Boy" pants,and assume responsibility for one's action? The modern way of doing things is to blame someone....anyone..... for any problems that are encountered after purchase. I once bought a 3500kg ATM van,and when the vendor asked what vehicle I proposed to tow it with,,I pointed to my runabout,a Mazde Tribute with a towing capacity of 10kg? His response? "Geez mate?..I think it'll struggle"? I was,of course,not serious,but it surely is not the dealer's responsibility to deal with the apparent lack of knowledge exhibited by any purchaser? With today's culture,if a person buys something,and it turns out to be a bargain,the purchaser will tell all and sundry that it was a bargain because of his superior negotiating skills.However,if said purchase turns out to be a "lemon", you can be sure that it was the fault of somebody...anybody... else,and not of the purchaser.Big Boy pants? Despite posting information that is 100% correct,I sometimes despair that other members just do not WANT to learn? C'est la vie.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 14th of January 2021 07:13:02 PM
bgt said
07:20 PM Jan 14, 2021
Yobbar dream on. Take responsibility for your own actions. When's this going to happen? People have to fear consequences before they take any responsibility.
yobarr said
07:27 PM Jan 14, 2021
bgt wrote:
Yobbar dream on. Take responsibility for your own actions. When's this going to happen? People have to fear consequences before they take any responsibility.
You are,of course,100% correct.Always a problem is someone else's fault.Cheers
montie said
07:51 PM Jan 14, 2021
M80 D wrote:
My new van has a ball tare weight of 160 kg
GTM 2970 kg
ATM 3300 kg
Tare 2584 kg
Our current tug 2009 NT Pajero is unsuitable for this van and we are looking at either the Mazda BT 80 or the Ford Ranger Raptor with a GVM upgrade on either. I need to know if one is better than the other for ease of towing. The ford is a big unit with only a 2.0 lt turbo 10 speed motor and I'm leaning more to the BT 50. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have added redarc brakes, 12 pin plug and clearview mirrors to the pajero in readiness for the van and have just been given the weights.
Pajero is no chance of safely or legally towing that van.
200 series or similar at least.
montie said
08:01 PM Jan 14, 2021
bgt wrote:
yobbar I have no issue with your logic. But governments will never upset the retiree vote.
It wont be governments that act. It will be the insurance companies.
I have a HR license. I've had a trailer pass me going around and around in the grass. I've changed my undies more than once while towing. I get it. But 'Bill Smith' doesn't get it. So pressure those who insure RVs. Pressure dealers to tell the truth. When an insurance company refuses to pay and the owner then takes action against the dealer things may change. MAY.
Bad news 'ol mate.
Dealers will advise the van's ATM and the possible tow vehicles that can do the job. They will not sell you a van unless you have the tug with the appropriate towing capacity.
The rest is up to you...if you have questions just ask...You will get the answer...
Don't pass the buck for your ignorance, that's not an excuse.
travelyounger said
08:50 PM Jan 14, 2021
montie wrote:
M80 D wrote:
My new van has a ball tare weight of 160 kg
GTM 2970 kg
ATM 3300 kg
Tare 2584 kg
Our current tug 2009 NT Pajero is unsuitable for this van and we are looking at either the Mazda BT 80 or the Ford Ranger Raptor with a GVM upgrade on either. I need to know if one is better than the other for ease of towing. The ford is a big unit with only a 2.0 lt turbo 10 speed motor and I'm leaning more to the BT 50. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have added redarc brakes, 12 pin plug and clearview mirrors to the pajero in readiness for the van and have just been given the weights.
Pajero is no chance of safely or legally towing that van.
200 series or similar at least.
Question
Why the 2 litre ranger and not the 3.2 litre M80 D just curious
Craig1 said
08:51 PM Jan 14, 2021
Montie,
At the last show we attended in Wodonga, I think 2018, we entered a monster van, around 8 metres, almost full slide out, tv on rails, etc etc. What sort of vehicle do you have mate?, 2017 gxl 200 series I reply, no worries mate , you can tow this easy!. So whilst there are plenty of reputable sales people, there are some duds who start with a fib and down hill from there.
montie said
09:28 PM Jan 14, 2021
Craig1 wrote:
Montie, At the last show we attended in Wodonga, I think 2018, we entered a monster van, around 8 metres, almost full slide out, tv on rails, etc etc. What sort of vehicle do you have mate?, 2017 gxl 200 series I reply, no worries mate , you can tow this easy!. So whilst there are plenty of reputable sales people, there are some duds who start with a fib and down hill from there.
And Craig you had obviously done your homework so you knew the difference...my point exactly.
Information is available for any consumer these days...it's called the internet.
Moral of the story....do your homework and avoid shows.
Bill B said
10:38 PM Jan 14, 2021
montie wrote:
Moral of the story....do your homework and avoid shows.
It is much easier to blame someone else, than to take responsibility for their own decisions/actions or lack thereof.
Greg 1 said
11:25 PM Jan 14, 2021
Montie, you are obviously a knowledgeable and responsible dealer but you are one of few.
I have met many that will tell you anything to sell a van and others who would be battling to tell you what end of the tug you hooked the van on.
It's these ones who are the worry because many people rely on the dealer being knowledgeable and honest to steer them in the right direction. Not everyone is an internet junkie.
It's the dodgy dealers that need to be drummed out of the industry. I know too many people who have been caught out by these people. The caravan industry is rife with them.
bgt said
08:56 AM Jan 15, 2021
Ask the average dealer if they go camping and if so what in. You'll be surprised at how many have no idea of tow ratings let alone solar, batteries etc.
But buried within Australian consumer laws is something along the lines of 'fit for purpose'. So if that could be applied to RVs would it be the dealer who sold you the heavy caravan or would it be the dealer who sold you the under rated tow vehicle that is responsible? If I buy a new RAM and say nothing about what I want it for it can hardly be the RAM dealers fault. If I buy a heavy caravan I have to turn up in sometime to tow it away. So is that where the bucks stops? Can/should the dealer take responsibility and say 'no you can't tow that away from here with that'?
It's all very well for us old farts to look into the right and wrong ways of going RVing. But with covid the trip to Bali or Whistler is off. So mum n dad go and buy a caravan and hit the road with the 2 kids. At what point does someone step in and say "NO"? Who takes that responsibility?
I have an answer but it will never see the light of day. Simple solution is the have a new towing license. If you tow before you go you have to pass the test and have an endorsed towing license. That's where the s#@t will hit the fan. But it is the only way I can see that you can make folks aware of towing safety issue.
Years ago they tried it in Oregon. The government quickly backed down when the grey nomads rioted. I was at a motorhome factory in the USA. An old guy came in. He was 92. He was complaining that his new motorhome couldn't cruise at 80mph. That's just a sample of what you are dealing with.
montie said
09:30 AM Jan 15, 2021
bgt wrote:
Ask the average dealer if they go camping and if so what in. You'll be surprised at how many have no idea of tow ratings let alone solar, batteries etc.
But buried within Australian consumer laws is something along the lines of 'fit for purpose'. So if that could be applied to RVs would it be the dealer who sold you the heavy caravan or would it be the dealer who sold you the under rated tow vehicle that is responsible? If I buy a new RAM and say nothing about what I want it for it can hardly be the RAM dealers fault. If I buy a heavy caravan I have to turn up in sometime to tow it away. So is that where the bucks stops? Can/should the dealer take responsibility and say 'no you can't tow that away from here with that'?
It's all very well for us old farts to look into the right and wrong ways of going RVing. But with covid the trip to Bali or Whistler is off. So mum n dad go and buy a caravan and hit the road with the 2 kids. At what point does someone step in and say "NO"? Who takes that responsibility?
I have an answer but it will never see the light of day. Simple solution is the have a new towing license. If you tow before you go you have to pass the test and have an endorsed towing license. That's where the s#@t will hit the fan. But it is the only way I can see that you can make folks aware of towing safety issue.
Years ago they tried it in Oregon. The government quickly backed down when the grey nomads rioted. I was at a motorhome factory in the USA. An old guy came in. He was 92. He was complaining that his new motorhome couldn't cruise at 80mph. That's just a sample of what you are dealing with.
Dealers will always ask what tow vehicle you havs and advise accordingly. It is of course the buyer's responsibility to verify that advice by referring to the owners handbook or referencing the info online.
If a dealer advises that your tug does not have the tow capacity and you insist on proceeding he will very likely ask you to sign a disclaimer to cover himself under the ACA. It is then your responsibility to upgrade your tug to operate legally.
Greg 1 said
11:32 AM Jan 15, 2021
Montie you may ask what they intend to tow it with but many dealers do not.
I would have to say from my experience that you are in the minority when it comes to things like that.
If all dealers took a responsible attitude like yourself then there may well be far less problems when it comes to issues of weights.
Gundog said
12:32 PM Jan 15, 2021
Greg 1 wrote:
Montie you may ask what they intend to tow it with but many dealers do not. I would have to say from my experience that you are in the minority when it comes to things like that. If all dealers took a responsible attitude like yourself then there may well be far less problems when it comes to issues of weights.
Greg I disagree with you totally its not the dealers responsibility to advise you of what you should tow with it. It is you the buyer who should do your do diligance to buy what fits within the capacity of you tow vehicle or vice versa buy the correct tow vehicle to suit your choice of caravan.
Todays world is no one wants to take responsibility for their choices, the buck stops with you and blame shifting is just an excuse because of poor choice.
Hydeeeho said
05:28 PM Jan 17, 2021
Anyone have a LDV T60 to tow a van ??????? If so could they please let me know it goes
Gundog, you have entirely missed the point. Yes, ultimately the responsibility to obey the law rests with the driver, but the dealers selling the van's need to bear some responsibility to at least educate buyers as to their legal responsibilities when it comes to weights. If not, who does?
We get lots of new chums on here trying to find out and from the many discussions about the subject on this forum, it is patently obvious to me that a good few members here still do not have a grasp of the concept.
For all of peoples criticism of yobarr on here, at least he has a pretty good understanding of the weight issue and does try to educate those that don't.
I have held positions in companies selling products to customers that require compliance to Australian Standards, and always tried to educate potential buyers on what they needed to look out for to ensure that they bought a compliant product. It would be negligent, in my opinion, for a dealer to think that he bears no responsibility in this matter, and in fact, the way things are going in our litigious society, it is only a matter of time before one of the more onerous dealers gets taken to the cleaners. Negligence knows no bounds.
It has already happened in the USA and we are tending to follow them down that path, for better or worse, depending where you stand.
montie said
03:36 PM Jan 19, 2021
Greg 1 wrote:
Gundog, you have entirely missed the point. Yes, ultimately the responsibility to obey the law rests with the driver, but the dealers selling the van's need to bear some responsibility to at least educate buyers as to their legal responsibilities when it comes to weights. If not, who does? We get lots of new chums on here trying to find out and from the many discussions about the subject on this forum, it is patently obvious to me that a good few members here still do not have a grasp of the concept. For all of peoples criticism of yobarr on here, at least he has a pretty good understanding of the weight issue and does try to educate those that don't. I have held positions in companies selling products to customers that require compliance to Australian Standards, and always tried to educate potential buyers on what they needed to look out for to ensure that they bought a compliant product. It would be negligent, in my opinion, for a dealer to think that he bears no responsibility in this matter, and in fact, the way things are going in our litigious society, it is only a matter of time before one of the more onerous dealers gets taken to the cleaners. Negligence knows no bounds. It has already happened in the USA and we are tending to follow them down that path, for better or worse, depending where you stand.
Ok when it comes to education what does a potential caravan buyer need to know?
1) The towing capacity of his vehicle supplied by the vehicle dealer.
2) The ATM of the van supplied by the van dealer
3) The available gross payload of the van calculated by the van dealer for the buyer.
4) GVM, GCM and Ball Rating of the tug provided by the vehicle dealer.
Now that's hardly rocket science.
He researches the caravan ratings with the van dealer and the vehicle ratings with the car dealer.
He would then be advised to go and get himself a comprehensive Tow Ed course so that he can familiarise himself with all of the above ratings and how to fully understand them in a practical situation together with all the other safety information provided by the course.
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 19th of January 2021 03:39:23 PM
7 seat Nissan Patrol ST TD4.2 Turbo diesel - Back row of seats temporarily (read permanent) removed - carries Child brides wine and Honda 2.01 Genny.
Nissan Patrol ST TD4.2 Turbo Diesel.....best Patrol ever built! Well chosen.Cheers
Thank goodness you approve - I was fearful of a sleepless night if you didn't.
Does not fit in with the "In" crowd of Hilux, Ranger, BT50, Mux etc. to me generally owned by someone 55+
www.carsguide.com.au/adventure/advice/td42-engine-your-guide-to-the-nissan-turbo-diesel-motor-81170
No problem there Possum....all is good! I can well imagine how much sleep an ex-army man would lose if someone had the temerity to disagree with his choice of car! As Peter iin SA has said,your car doesn't have the "Look at me" appeal of the pretenders that abound,but you can be sure that it still will be going when the others have died.Cheers
It wont be governments that act. It will be the insurance companies.
I have a HR license. I've had a trailer pass me going around and around in the grass. I've changed my undies more than once while towing. I get it. But 'Bill Smith' doesn't get it. So pressure those who insure RVs. Pressure dealers to tell the truth. When an insurance company refuses to pay and the owner then takes action against the dealer things may change. MAY.
we have all been there
please explain ?
Because I have held an MC (Road train) for many years,not much bothers me with weights.However,I don't know that it is the dealer's responsibility to ensure that any buyer is compliant with all towing laws?....at some stage one surely must put-on one's "Big Boy" pants,and assume responsibility for one's action? The modern way of doing things is to blame someone....anyone..... for any problems that are encountered after purchase. I once bought a 3500kg ATM van,and when the vendor asked what vehicle I proposed to tow it with,,I pointed to my runabout,a Mazde Tribute with a towing capacity of 10kg? His response? "Geez mate?..I think it'll struggle"? I was,of course,not serious,but it surely is not the dealer's responsibility to deal with the apparent lack of knowledge exhibited by any purchaser? With today's culture,if a person buys something,and it turns out to be a bargain,the purchaser will tell all and sundry that it was a bargain because of his superior negotiating skills.However,if said purchase turns out to be a "lemon", you can be sure that it was the fault of somebody...anybody... else,and not of the purchaser.Big Boy pants? Despite posting information that is 100% correct,I sometimes despair that other members just do not WANT to learn? C'est la vie.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 14th of January 2021 07:13:02 PM
You are,of course,100% correct.Always a problem is someone else's fault.Cheers
Pajero is no chance of safely or legally towing that van.
200 series or similar at least.
Bad news 'ol mate.
Dealers will advise the van's ATM and the possible tow vehicles that can do the job. They will not sell you a van unless you have the tug with the appropriate towing capacity.
The rest is up to you...if you have questions just ask...You will get the answer...
Don't pass the buck for your ignorance, that's not an excuse.
Question
Why the 2 litre ranger and not the 3.2 litre M80 D just curious
At the last show we attended in Wodonga, I think 2018, we entered a monster van, around 8 metres, almost full slide out, tv on rails, etc etc. What sort of vehicle do you have mate?, 2017 gxl 200 series I reply, no worries mate , you can tow this easy!. So whilst there are plenty of reputable sales people, there are some duds who start with a fib and down hill from there.
And Craig you had obviously done your homework so you knew the difference...my point exactly.
Information is available for any consumer these days...it's called the internet.
Moral of the story....do your homework and avoid shows.
It is much easier to blame someone else, than to take responsibility for their own decisions/actions or lack thereof.
But buried within Australian consumer laws is something along the lines of 'fit for purpose'. So if that could be applied to RVs would it be the dealer who sold you the heavy caravan or would it be the dealer who sold you the under rated tow vehicle that is responsible? If I buy a new RAM and say nothing about what I want it for it can hardly be the RAM dealers fault. If I buy a heavy caravan I have to turn up in sometime to tow it away. So is that where the bucks stops? Can/should the dealer take responsibility and say 'no you can't tow that away from here with that'?
It's all very well for us old farts to look into the right and wrong ways of going RVing. But with covid the trip to Bali or Whistler is off. So mum n dad go and buy a caravan and hit the road with the 2 kids. At what point does someone step in and say "NO"? Who takes that responsibility?
I have an answer but it will never see the light of day. Simple solution is the have a new towing license. If you tow before you go you have to pass the test and have an endorsed towing license. That's where the s#@t will hit the fan. But it is the only way I can see that you can make folks aware of towing safety issue.
Years ago they tried it in Oregon. The government quickly backed down when the grey nomads rioted. I was at a motorhome factory in the USA. An old guy came in. He was 92. He was complaining that his new motorhome couldn't cruise at 80mph. That's just a sample of what you are dealing with.
Dealers will always ask what tow vehicle you havs and advise accordingly. It is of course the buyer's responsibility to verify that advice by referring to the owners handbook or referencing the info online.
If a dealer advises that your tug does not have the tow capacity and you insist on proceeding he will very likely ask you to sign a disclaimer to cover himself under the ACA. It is then your responsibility to upgrade your tug to operate legally.
Greg I disagree with you totally its not the dealers responsibility to advise you of what you should tow with it. It is you the buyer who should do your do diligance to buy what fits within the capacity of you tow vehicle or vice versa buy the correct tow vehicle to suit your choice of caravan.
Todays world is no one wants to take responsibility for their choices, the buck stops with you and blame shifting is just an excuse because of poor choice.
Anyone have a LDV T60 to tow a van ??????? If so could they please let me know it goes
Cheers
Dave
Ok when it comes to education what does a potential caravan buyer need to know?
1) The towing capacity of his vehicle supplied by the vehicle dealer.
2) The ATM of the van supplied by the van dealer
3) The available gross payload of the van calculated by the van dealer for the buyer.
4) GVM, GCM and Ball Rating of the tug provided by the vehicle dealer.
Now that's hardly rocket science.
He researches the caravan ratings with the van dealer and the vehicle ratings with the car dealer.
He would then be advised to go and get himself a comprehensive Tow Ed course so that he can familiarise himself with all of the above ratings and how to fully understand them in a practical situation together with all the other safety information provided by the course.
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 19th of January 2021 03:39:23 PM