So let us cut ourselves off from the rest of the world. Simple hey? No Australians allowed to return home. No air traffic. Passenger or freight. No ships. Nothing. Yup. Very simplistic view. Doing nothing is easy. Anyone can do it.
Jump down off your high horse bgt....these overseas travellers, if in fact they are Australian Citizens and not Dual Citizens have had over 12 months to come back.
The international borders remaining open is to keep Alan Joyce and cohorts in business...it has nothing to do with the health and welfare of the 26 million Aussies that are trying to survive these continual shut downs, lock downs, and lock outs.
Once the vaccine is rolled out then our situation may be different but until that time all your grandstanding on how we need to bring citizens back home does not cut it with the majority. The people coming in are the ones introducing the Covid virus to our population.
Regards
Angie
msg said
02:30 PM Mar 31, 2021
good one Angie
TheHeaths said
03:37 PM Mar 31, 2021
Some have not had 12 months to get home.
Many have been on contracts working overseas and are only able to look to come back when those contracts are finished.
As Australians, whether you like it or not, they are entitled and welcome to come home.
I only hope you never face an issue like this, as you may think and feel differently with the boot on the other foot.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Wednesday 31st of March 2021 03:38:00 PM
bgt said
03:57 PM Mar 31, 2021
bentaxlebabe you really do need to open your eyes and mind. Australia has a legal responsibility to allow Australians to return home. Period. Your response 're QANTAS and profits disregards the thousands of others who rely on travel for their livelihoods and shows a complete misunderstanding of what covid has done to all of our lives. It's beyond me to understand how some folks think that simply shutting down everything will work. It won't. The vaccine won't stop covid or it spreading. We will have to learn to live with. How hard is it to understand that simple concept?
Rob Driver said
04:57 PM Mar 31, 2021
The Heaths,
Point taken but I only hope that you don't lose a loved one to Covid.
Bgt,
Oh my eyes are open.
From the last 19 cases that we have now in Qld due to contact with the two that I mentioned in my post above, they have visited up until now, 81 venues, not including those in NSW.
81 venues which potentially could then spread the virus to hundreds and if not thousands.
It has been proven that locking our interstate borders has prevented the virus spreading so it only goes that closing an international border will again prevent the spread.
While repatriation of genuine overseas aussies is important have a read of the loopholes that anyone may use to get into Australia without a test.
Overseas, read chinese uni students, are automatically given dual citizen status in Australia. Many others have dual citizen status from other countries as well.
I am sure if I was an Indian national with dual citizenship I would be pretty sure which country I would rather be in.
I have nowhere said to shut down everything.
So in your view those who rely on overseas travel for their livelihood are all ok even though their actions are extremely high risk to the 26 million Aussies, but, the livelihood of all those who have businesses or work for, or rely on Australian businesses that have been forced to close because of two international travellers just doesn't matter to you......and you say that I dont understand.
You and some others have jumped to the conclusion that the vaccinations arent going to work.
That is your view along with thousands of other anti vaxers but medical opinion indicates that it will work and for our own good we need to at least give it a go.
While I don't know wether the federal govt is required by law to let all these travellers into the country they should be held morally responsible for ensuring that 100% of them aren't coming in with Covid. This is something that they cant or arent doing currently, and have not done so since day one.
I have noted from posts from last year that you don't seem to worry wether you contract this disease but I can assure you that if you had a loved one pass away because of this virus you might just change your attitude.
Oh and regarding Qantas, if our govt had not propped up this international carrier and gave more assistance to businesses to help them through all these forced closures we would have all been better off. Did you not note the grossly inflated prices that Mr Joyce was charging *Aussies* to get home. Not bad after he was gifted a bag full of money.....I bet you don't remember that before our taxes propped the company up, he sacked 6000 employees just to show Morrison he meant business.
So bgt, I am not prepared to just live with Covid or any other virus that another country inflicts on us and I don't support a govt who can see how to fix this but decides not to.
Regards
Angie
bgt said
05:22 PM Mar 31, 2021
Angie the simple fact is that the covid vaccine will not stop the spread. Check your facts. Not one manufacturer has said it would.
Recoup said
06:45 PM Mar 31, 2021
From the CDC Webside , COVID-19 vaccines are effective at protecting you from getting sick. Based on what we know about COVID-19 vaccines, people who have been fully vaccinated can start to do some things that they had stopped doing because of the pandemic.
Were still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After youve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions in public places like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces until we know more.
From the CDC Webside , COVID-19 vaccines are effective at protecting you from getting sick. Based on what we know about COVID-19 vaccines, people who have been fully vaccinated can start to do some things that they had stopped doing because of the pandemic.
Were still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After youve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions in public places like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces until we know more.
So what is the point of having the vaccine
montie said
07:43 PM Mar 31, 2021
Plain Truth wrote:
Recoup wrote:
From the CDC Webside , COVID-19 vaccines are effective at protecting you from getting sick. Based on what we know about COVID-19 vaccines, people who have been fully vaccinated can start to do some things that they had stopped doing because of the pandemic.
Were still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After youve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions in public places like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces until we know more.
So what is the point of having the vaccine
Getting vaccinated is not compulsory.....it's your choice.
If you do get vaccinated covid cannot hurt you....same as the flu vax.
For those people who choose not to get vaccinated...... the risk is yours and participating in many activities may be denied to you....again your choice.
For those of us who choose to get vaccinated.....we don't really care what choice you make!
Rob Driver said
07:58 PM Mar 31, 2021
bgt wrote:
Angie the simple fact is that the covid vaccine will not stop the spread. Check your facts. Not one manufacturer has said it would.
You know what bgt, I wasn't even going to answer you because you are so ill informed you need to have a read of at least this link.
From the CDC Webside , COVID-19 vaccines are effective at protecting you from getting sick. Based on what we know about COVID-19 vaccines, people who have been fully vaccinated can start to do some things that they had stopped doing because of the pandemic.
Were still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After youve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions in public places like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces until we know more.
So what is the point of having the vaccine
Getting vaccinated is not compulsory.....it's your choice.
If you do get vaccinated covid cannot hurt you....same as the flu vax.
For those people who choose not to get vaccinated...... the risk is yours and participating in many activities may be denied to you....again your choice.
For those of us who choose to get vaccinated.....we don't really care what choice you make!
One word montie...
Yes..
Regards
Angie
bgt said
09:42 PM Mar 31, 2021
It's time folks learnt to take some responsibility for their own welfare and not rely on governments who are playing politics.
FWIW I'm not anti vax. I'm in a very high risk group and should have already had the shot. My hemotologist gave me clearances weeks ago. But I would rather give my shot to a frontline worker and take responsibility for my own protection.
Mamil said
12:05 AM Apr 1, 2021
bentaxlebabe wrote:
While repatriation of genuine overseas aussies is important have a read of the loopholes that anyone may use to get into Australia without a test. Overseas, read chinese uni students, are automatically given dual citizen status in Australia. Many others have dual citizen status from other countries as well. I am sure if I was an Indian national with dual citizenship I would be pretty sure which country I would rather be in.
As someone who originally came to Australia as an International student I can assure you that they are definitely not "automatically given dual citizen status in Australia". International students are temporary residents on a fixed term student visa under condition that they are studying full time and pass their exams or their visas are revoked. They also have to have private health insurance so they don't burden our healthcare system, have limitations on the hours and type of work they can do, and their fees are three times that of Australian students. On graduation there are pathways to permanent residence, and eventually citizenship, but is all based on the points system and list of 'in demand' skills, no different to any other aspiring immigrant. The only difference is that as they are already here, have gained an Australian degree, and have probably worked part time to finance their studies, they have a better chance of being sponsored by an Australian employer for their visa application.
-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:47:21 PM
Stewart said
08:19 AM Apr 1, 2021
If we want a quick vaccine process we need some one like McDonald's or coke to do it. Govt will only slow it down with lack of decision and too much administration. Has anyone had the vaccine yet? We are booked in for next Tuesday for the first jab. Cheers Stewart
DMaxer said
08:34 AM Apr 1, 2021
My aged mum and the other residents of her aged care facility together with the nursing staff and admin staff are still waiting for notification as to when they will receive the vaccination.
Meanwhile, motor mouth had his on the first day and if that was not sufficiently galling he also had a major photo session just to ram it home. Pity his wasn't administered by way of a suppository launched from a shanghai.
Stewart said
08:59 AM Apr 1, 2021
If we want a quick vaccine process we need some one like McDonald's or coke to do it. Govt will only slow it down with lack of decision and too much administration. Has anyone had the vaccine yet? We are booked in for next Tuesday for the first jab. Cheers Stewart
yobarr said
09:30 AM Apr 1, 2021
DMaxer wrote:
My aged mum and the other residents of her aged care facility together with the nursing staff and admin staff are still waiting for notification as to when they will receive the vaccination. Meanwhile, motor mouth had his on the first day and if that was not sufficiently galling he also had a major photo session just to ram it home. Pity his wasn't administered by way of a suppository launched from a shanghai.
As a Lawyer,you would perhaps understand that no matter what was done by "Motor Mouth",who I assume to be Scott Morrison,he would have incurred the wrath of serial moaners? If he had chosen to NOT get the jab,immediately the naysayers would have decided that the vaccine must be unsafe,but when he leads by example,and gets his jab early,he is then accused of "jumping the queue".Any thinking person would understand that the photo session simply made the public aware that the vaccine was available,and was indeed safe.Damned if he does,damned if he doesn't.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 1st of April 2021 09:33:29 AM
DMaxer said
10:48 AM Apr 1, 2021
I don't think being a lawyer brought this to my attention. All motor mouth needed to say was that he would have the vaccination at the first opportunity when it became available in his classification or age group.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:05:39 AM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:58:54 AM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:59:19 AM
Wanda said
10:56 AM Apr 1, 2021
Magnarc wrote:
We can all be grateful that bgt and msg are not in a position of power, political or otherwise. Some people can't see further than their nose unforunately. No further comment from me.
(shotguns at the ready!)
So So true, yes they are entitled to their opinion but they do both go on and on and on about this issue.
Have they not yet figured out they are in the minority, and maybe, just maybe they have got it wrong on this issue!.......Nope!
As you said above, thank whoever they are not in power!
Ian
montie said
11:14 AM Apr 1, 2021
DMaxer wrote:
I don't think being a lawyer brought this to my attention Montie. All motor mouth needed to say was that he would have the vaccination at the first opportunity when it became available in his classification or age group.
The law, medicine, political machinations, is there anything you are not an authority on or perhaps you just like getting a reaction. Oh well, I guess you give your employees something to laugh about behind your back.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:05:39 AM
Don't know why you are addressing your reply to me...I didn't post.
I made my point earlier....go and get vaccinated and stop moaning!
DMaxer said
11:57 AM Apr 1, 2021
My apologies Montie. I would like to get vaccinated but can't get in for several weeks.
I have edited my post and will save that up for another occasion.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 12:00:14 PM
montie said
12:39 PM Apr 1, 2021
DMaxer wrote:
My apologies Montie. I would like to get vaccinated but can't get in for several weeks.
I have edited my post and will save that up for another occasion.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 12:00:14 PM
No probs DMaxer.
peter67 said
05:36 PM Apr 1, 2021
Stewart wrote:
If we want a quick vaccine process we need some one like McDonald's or coke to do it. Govt will only slow it down with lack of decision and too much administration. Has anyone had the vaccine yet? We are booked in for next Tuesday for the first jab. Cheers Stewart
I'll have a large fries and coke with that too.
Gaylehere said
06:08 PM Apr 1, 2021
Hubby booked on line yesterday and had his injection this afternoon. In Toowoomba. I'm not old enough yet, so have to wait. Depending where you are. Some places have run out of the vaccine and some places probably haven't got any to start with. Cheers and Happy Easter.
PS. Just looked up the Toowoomba Vaccine Clinic website and their next appointments are on the 12th April, 2021.
-- Edited by Gaylehere on Thursday 1st of April 2021 06:14:14 PM
Aussie1 said
08:07 PM Apr 1, 2021
montie wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
Recoup wrote:
From the CDC Webside , COVID-19 vaccines are effective at protecting you from getting sick. Based on what we know about COVID-19 vaccines, people who have been fully vaccinated can start to do some things that they had stopped doing because of the pandemic.
Were still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After youve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions in public places like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces until we know more.
So what is the point of having the vaccine
Getting vaccinated is not compulsory.....it's your choice.
If you do get vaccinated covid cannot hurt you....same as the flu vax.
For those people who choose not to get vaccinated...... the risk is yours and participating in many activities may be denied to you....again your choice.
For those of us who choose to get vaccinated.....we don't really care what choice you make!
Really well put Montie, 100 % with you on that comment.
Folks who don't get the jab, "suffer in your jocks".
Cupie said
09:41 AM Apr 2, 2021
We had to delay our first Covid shots until SWMBO has completed a course of Cortisone injections. I could have had mine earlier but we chose to have them at the same time.
Our first Covid shots are at 1pm on 7/4
Our Annual Flu shots are 9.20am on 21/4
Our second Covid shots are 3.30pm on 30/6. (after we return home from a holiday with our Children's Families at one of our favourite CPs to celebrate my 80th birthday .. were planning to go to Hawaii but that's out of course)
Our Family GP clinic are very organised.
ps... Our neighbour who uses the same GP Clinic had his first jab yesterday.
pps ... For all those who wish to express an informed opinion on the effectiveness of the Vaccines (or even to have a better personal opinion on the subject) I highly recommend that you visit the Doherty Institute site & at least listen to their podcasts on the subject rather than to listen to the various biased & often uninformed opinion found on various social media.
-- Edited by Cupie on Friday 2nd of April 2021 11:44:07 AM
-- Edited by Cupie on Friday 2nd of April 2021 11:47:23 AM
-- Edited by Cupie on Friday 2nd of April 2021 05:34:50 PM
Izabarack said
09:31 AM Apr 3, 2021
Kinda related, but, apparently the NSW Health Dept is not the big meanie in the cancellation of the Bluesfest event at Byron Bay. The organisers could not get insurance that would cover them if someone at the festival contracted the disease. This despite a comprehensive and complete COVID safe protocol designed by the promotors and touted as the model to be followed elsewhere, it is that good. The could not get bit was that no insurance provider would even give them a quote on coverage Where this relates to the current thread is that even insurance companies agree with the actions of state governments when doing things that stop congregations of people when there is a high likelihood that infected people could be out there. So back to the original argument, yes, business get hurt by lockdowns and the hurt would be much, much greater if they did not happen.
Greg 1 said
02:06 AM Apr 4, 2021
Border closures work. Full stop end of story. Already proven fact.
If you believe otherwise then maybe you need another brain cell to keep the one you have company.
bgt said
08:52 AM Apr 4, 2021
Greg 1 the recent Qld "out break" came from within Qld. So did the SA "out break" and the Victorian one. Ask folks in the UK if lockdowns work.
But we all have our opinions on this subject. Posts above prove that if all else fails get personal rather than debate the facts.
Jump down off your high horse bgt....these overseas travellers, if in fact they are Australian Citizens and not Dual Citizens have had over 12 months to come back.
The international borders remaining open is to keep Alan Joyce and cohorts in business...it has nothing to do with the health and welfare of the 26 million Aussies that are trying to survive these continual shut downs, lock downs, and lock outs.
Once the vaccine is rolled out then our situation may be different but until that time all your grandstanding on how we need to bring citizens back home does not cut it with the majority. The people coming in are the ones introducing the Covid virus to our population.
Regards
Angie
Some have not had 12 months to get home.
Many have been on contracts working overseas and are only able to look to come back when those contracts are finished.
As Australians, whether you like it or not, they are entitled and welcome to come home.
I only hope you never face an issue like this, as you may think and feel differently with the boot on the other foot.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Wednesday 31st of March 2021 03:38:00 PM
Point taken but I only hope that you don't lose a loved one to Covid.
Bgt,
Oh my eyes are open.
From the last 19 cases that we have now in Qld due to contact with the two that I mentioned in my post above, they have visited up until now, 81 venues, not including those in NSW.
From here
www.qld.gov.au/health/conditions/health-alerts/coronavirus-covid-19/current-status/contact-tracing
81 venues which potentially could then spread the virus to hundreds and if not thousands.
It has been proven that locking our interstate borders has prevented the virus spreading so it only goes that closing an international border will again prevent the spread.
While repatriation of genuine overseas aussies is important have a read of the loopholes that anyone may use to get into Australia without a test.
Overseas, read chinese uni students, are automatically given dual citizen status in Australia. Many others have dual citizen status from other countries as well.
I am sure if I was an Indian national with dual citizenship I would be pretty sure which country I would rather be in.
I have nowhere said to shut down everything.
So in your view those who rely on overseas travel for their livelihood are all ok even though their actions are extremely high risk to the 26 million Aussies, but, the livelihood of all those who have businesses or work for, or rely on Australian businesses that have been forced to close because of two international travellers just doesn't matter to you......and you say that I dont understand.
You and some others have jumped to the conclusion that the vaccinations arent going to work.
That is your view along with thousands of other anti vaxers but medical opinion indicates that it will work and for our own good we need to at least give it a go.
While I don't know wether the federal govt is required by law to let all these travellers into the country they should be held morally responsible for ensuring that 100% of them aren't coming in with Covid. This is something that they cant or arent doing currently, and have not done so since day one.
I have noted from posts from last year that you don't seem to worry wether you contract this disease but I can assure you that if you had a loved one pass away because of this virus you might just change your attitude.
Oh and regarding Qantas, if our govt had not propped up this international carrier and gave more assistance to businesses to help them through all these forced closures we would have all been better off. Did you not note the grossly inflated prices that Mr Joyce was charging *Aussies* to get home. Not bad after he was gifted a bag full of money.....I bet you don't remember that before our taxes propped the company up, he sacked 6000 employees just to show Morrison he meant business.
So bgt, I am not prepared to just live with Covid or any other virus that another country inflicts on us and I don't support a govt who can see how to fix this but decides not to.
Regards
Angie
Were still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After youve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions in public places like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces until we know more.
Slip of the tongue ?
So what is the point of having the vaccine
Getting vaccinated is not compulsory.....it's your choice.
If you do get vaccinated covid cannot hurt you....same as the flu vax.
For those people who choose not to get vaccinated...... the risk is yours and participating in many activities may be denied to you....again your choice.
For those of us who choose to get vaccinated.....we don't really care what choice you make!
You know what bgt, I wasn't even going to answer you because you are so ill informed you need to have a read of at least this link.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fvaccines%2Fabout-vaccines%2Fvaccine-benefits.html
God help the anti vaxxers..
I wish you well bgt...
Regards
Angie
One word montie...
Yes..
Regards
Angie
As someone who originally came to Australia as an International student I can assure you that they are definitely not "automatically given dual citizen status in Australia". International students are temporary residents on a fixed term student visa under condition that they are studying full time and pass their exams or their visas are revoked. They also have to have private health insurance so they don't burden our healthcare system, have limitations on the hours and type of work they can do, and their fees are three times that of Australian students. On graduation there are pathways to permanent residence, and eventually citizenship, but is all based on the points system and list of 'in demand' skills, no different to any other aspiring immigrant. The only difference is that as they are already here, have gained an Australian degree, and have probably worked part time to finance their studies, they have a better chance of being sponsored by an Australian employer for their visa application.
-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:47:21 PM
As a Lawyer,you would perhaps understand that no matter what was done by "Motor Mouth",who I assume to be Scott Morrison,he would have incurred the wrath of serial moaners? If he had chosen to NOT get the jab,immediately the naysayers would have decided that the vaccine must be unsafe,but when he leads by example,and gets his jab early,he is then accused of "jumping the queue".Any thinking person would understand that the photo session simply made the public aware that the vaccine was available,and was indeed safe.Damned if he does,damned if he doesn't.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 1st of April 2021 09:33:29 AM
I don't think being a lawyer brought this to my attention. All motor mouth needed to say was that he would have the vaccination at the first opportunity when it became available in his classification or age group.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:05:39 AM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:58:54 AM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 11:59:19 AM
So So true, yes they are entitled to their opinion but they do both go on and on and on about this issue.
Have they not yet figured out they are in the minority, and maybe, just maybe they have got it wrong on this issue!.......Nope!
As you said above, thank whoever they are not in power!
Ian
Don't know why you are addressing your reply to me...I didn't post.
I made my point earlier....go and get vaccinated and stop moaning!
My apologies Montie. I would like to get vaccinated but can't get in for several weeks.
I have edited my post and will save that up for another occasion.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 1st of April 2021 12:00:14 PM
No probs DMaxer.
I'll have a large fries and coke with that too.
Hubby booked on line yesterday and had his injection this afternoon. In Toowoomba. I'm not old enough yet, so have to wait. Depending where you are. Some places have run out of the vaccine and some places probably haven't got any to start with. Cheers and Happy Easter.
PS. Just looked up the Toowoomba Vaccine Clinic website and their next appointments are on the 12th April, 2021.
-- Edited by Gaylehere on Thursday 1st of April 2021 06:14:14 PM
Really well put Montie, 100 % with you on that comment.
Folks who don't get the jab, "suffer in your jocks".
We had to delay our first Covid shots until SWMBO has completed a course of Cortisone injections. I could have had mine earlier but we chose to have them at the same time.
Our first Covid shots are at 1pm on 7/4
Our Annual Flu shots are 9.20am on 21/4
Our second Covid shots are 3.30pm on 30/6. (after we return home from a holiday with our Children's Families at one of our favourite CPs to celebrate my 80th birthday .. were planning to go to Hawaii but that's out of course)
Our Family GP clinic are very organised.
ps... Our neighbour who uses the same GP Clinic had his first jab yesterday.
pps ... For all those who wish to express an informed opinion on the effectiveness of the Vaccines (or even to have a better personal opinion on the subject) I highly recommend that you visit the Doherty Institute site & at least listen to their podcasts on the subject rather than to listen to the various biased & often uninformed opinion found on various social media.
https://www.doherty.edu.au/news-events/podcast
Hope that I finally got this link to work ....
-- Edited by Cupie on Friday 2nd of April 2021 11:44:07 AM
-- Edited by Cupie on Friday 2nd of April 2021 11:47:23 AM
-- Edited by Cupie on Friday 2nd of April 2021 05:34:50 PM
Kinda related, but, apparently the NSW Health Dept is not the big meanie in the cancellation of the Bluesfest event at Byron Bay. The organisers could not get insurance that would cover them if someone at the festival contracted the disease. This despite a comprehensive and complete COVID safe protocol designed by the promotors and touted as the model to be followed elsewhere, it is that good. The could not get bit was that no insurance provider would even give them a quote on coverage Where this relates to the current thread is that even insurance companies agree with the actions of state governments when doing things that stop congregations of people when there is a high likelihood that infected people could be out there. So back to the original argument, yes, business get hurt by lockdowns and the hurt would be much, much greater if they did not happen.
But we all have our opinions on this subject. Posts above prove that if all else fails get personal rather than debate the facts.