I have been on a weight reduction program, ditched 300watts of solar and 200ah of batteries from the van, to get the van well under the GTM.
When I feel the need to free camp out come the 3.5kva generator.
Less batteries & solar, adding generator & fuel, what was the net weight saving?
The generator and fuel are and never have been part of the caravan weight, batteries 60kg, panels not sure 15 or 20 kg, I also removed other dead weight, like 2nd spare wheel, BBQ and other assorted rarely or never used stuff.
But lets get this thread back on track this is about fridge choice, instead of 3Way v 12v Compressor v House fridge
Mike Harding said
01:49 PM Feb 13, 2022
It comes down to a simple equation:
A compressor fridge/freezer uses around 1kWh of energy per 24 hours therefore you must be *certain* your system can generate (guessing) around 50% more than this amount of energy *every single day* - the extra energy replaces battery charge for cloudy days. Unless your system can do this you run a very significant risk of losing your freezer contents. Whether you do this with solar alone or use a generator too is up to you but those are the mathematics and they are not open for debate... unless you have a confirmed patent on a perpetual energy machine...?
Whenarewethere said
01:53 PM Feb 13, 2022
We had 2 x 8kg batteries. Needed to save weight to add more batteries, so replaced roof platform with 2 additional crossbars. Net weight saving was 16kg. So now have another 2 batteries, 4 x 8kg.
Technically we can run our fridge for a week, but after the fourth day we pull out the solar panels, 13.5kg, typically charges at 9 amps or drive & charge.
We have a small fridge but we only have 104AH, fridge draws about 15AH per 24 hours. We are also drawing well below the batteries 20 hour rating when the compressor is running.
We cook with metho, so no need to have the cost weight & inconvenience of gas.
yobarr said
06:29 PM Feb 13, 2022
Gundog wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
Gundog wrote:
I have been on a weight reduction program, ditched 300watts of solar and 200ah of batteries from the van, to get the van well under the GTM.
When I feel the need to free camp out come the 3.5kva generator.
Less batteries & solar, adding generator & fuel, what was the net weight saving?
The generator and fuel are and never have been part of the caravan weight, batteries 60kg, panels not sure 15 or 20 kg, I also removed other dead weight, like 2nd spare wheel, BBQ and other assorted rarely or never used stuff.
But lets get this thread back on track this is about fridge choice, instead of 3Way v 12v Compressor v House fridge
"Are and never have been".Sorry Graham,but could you please explain the highlighted text above? Cheers
Whenarewethere said
08:37 PM Feb 13, 2022
Tony LEE wrote:
My current bus conversion is all 230 volt electric but doesn't even have a shore power connection, but it has 3200 watts of solar, 560Ah @ 24 volt battery and a 5000VA inverter which wouldn't be possible in most normal caravans or motorhomes. Point is that compressor fridges have to be supplied with electricity 24/7 so careful consideration is required rather than just running out and buying a compressor fridge and hoping for the best
With the resources you have you could stick in a 75L -86°C medical freezer 870 x 555 x 555mm. 5kWh per 24 hours. That would be a cool feature!
gdayjr said
07:22 AM Feb 14, 2022
Well thanks everyone for the opinions.
A compressor fridge is ordered.
Gundog said
08:17 AM Feb 14, 2022
yobarr wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
Gundog wrote:
I have been on a weight reduction program, ditched 300watts of solar and 200ah of batteries from the van, to get the van well under the GTM.
When I feel the need to free camp out come the 3.5kva generator.
Less batteries & solar, adding generator & fuel, what was the net weight saving?
The generator and fuel are and never have been part of the caravan weight, batteries 60kg, panels not sure 15 or 20 kg, I also removed other dead weight, like 2nd spare wheel, BBQ and other assorted rarely or never used stuff.
But lets get this thread back on track this is about fridge choice, instead of 3Way v 12v Compressor v House fridge
"Are and never have been".Sorry Graham,but could you please explain the highlighted text above? Cheers
part of the ute weight ie GVM
yobarr said
08:18 AM Feb 14, 2022
gdayjr wrote:
Well thanks everyone for the opinions.
A compressor fridge is ordered.
Well done with ordering a compressor fridge.You certainly won't regret not buying old technology.Cheers
Gundog said
08:29 AM Feb 14, 2022
I no longer have the exact figures available but from memory my 228ltr Samsung DI fridge running off the battery via a Victron 350Va Inverter drew 65ah per 24 hours.
I also recall an occasion in March 2019 after a move, arriving at a CP in SA after setting up I neglected to change over to shore power for the fridge by pure chance 3 days later I had noticed the change over hadnt been done, upon checking the battery state it was ok the solar panels had kept the batteries at 100%.
Whenarewethere said
08:52 AM Feb 14, 2022
yobarr wrote:
gdayjr wrote:
Well thanks everyone for the opinions.
A compressor fridge is ordered.
Well done with ordering a compressor fridge.You certainly won't regret not buying old technology.Cheers
Get capital expenditure right & avoid expensive cyclic consumable costs.
gdayjr said
12:50 PM Feb 14, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
Tony Lee put it very well I thought.
It is not just a simple choice of which is the better device fridge-ing wise, there is a lot more to consider; the first things being where do you intend to spend most of your time and what is your style of camping?
In the southern parts of Oz solar panels are much less effective than in the northern parts. If you camp in forests solar panel become very poor energy producers and if you camp in southern forests in winter they are all but useless and a generator is essential.
Your 400Ah of battery should be OK and I suggest at the very least 1000W of free standing solar with all panels wired in parallel and long leads. Also ensure you buy a top quality MPPT controller. Expect to move the panels twice a day, more in winter and a lot more in forests.
Packing up/putting out that much solar is a pain when doing short trips and you'll be employing it at the wrong times of the day too; I often move only 150km or so a day and then camp for a night or two, this is not enough for the vehicle to charge a large battery bank and not enough sun for the solar. Generator time - so no National Parks et al.
Compressor fridges are certainly more effective coolers but they require a life support system, gas fridges are poor when ambient is over about 33C but they run silently for two weeks from a 9kg gas bottle.
I have a 184L gas fridge/freezer and a 60L compressor fridge/freezer which lives in the car and is not often used (good for shopping) but if ambient is above 35C for a run of days I move freezer stuff from gas fridge to compressor fridge.
I was going to change to a compressor fridge in the van but despite having 800W of solar am not sure I want the hassle of maintaining power to it 24/7/365.
NB: my 200W panels weigh 16kg each and are difficult to pack in the vehicle in order to ensure no damage and they take up a lot of space.
As I said at the beginning; this is not a simple yes/no question.
It really was a yes or no question. I thought i worded it in such a way that all i was asking for was a simple answer, 3way, or compressor?
Whenarewethere said
03:40 PM Feb 14, 2022
For those with room in the engine bay & very large battery setup, you could install a second alternator.
thomas01 said
08:23 PM Feb 14, 2022
To those people that do have a compressor fridge, does the starting/stopping of the compressor during the night affect your sleeping?
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Monday 14th of February 2022 08:51:00 PM
Whenarewethere said
08:49 PM Feb 14, 2022
We mostly sleep in the car & the fridge sits on the front passenger seat, a foot from our heads.
We can hear it, but it's not irritating, but I did put a quieter fan in it. The cover makes the compressor quieter & a bit of accoustic foam in a few gaps in compressor area.
It's a very quiet fridge.
If you have a noise issue use accoustic foam.
Mike Harding said
06:31 AM Feb 15, 2022
gdayjr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
As I said at the beginning; this is not a simple yes/no question.
It really was a yes or no question. I thought i worded it in such a way that all i was asking for was a simple answer, 3way, or compressor?
When I answer such questions I give freely of my knowledge and experience not only so the original poster may utilise it but, more importantly, in order that the many who subsequently find the thread via Google et al will have access to a wider knowledge base than simply yes or no which, mostly, is all but useless.
Cuppa said
11:38 AM Feb 15, 2022
Compressor, without hesitation.
We had a gas fridge once. It struggled in the heat & required exta fans. The day that we stayed at a friends home & left the motorhome parked on the road outside, returning in the moring to find that the motorhome floor was wet & the contents of the freezer compartment had thawed out, my wife said "I just want a fridge that works". The problem was that the road outside our friends home was a moderate sloping hill.
We fitted a compressor fridge & suitable solar/batteries to run it. Having had a gas fridge originally, we had the original vent panels in the side of the vehicle. This became an issue eventually after driving on a lot of dusty outback roads. The dust got into the fan bearing & eventually created sufficient drag on the fan to need replacing it. After that we made a easily fitted & removeable cover in place of the vent, & fitted an interior vent. It was easy to swap between the two depending on whether we were driving on dusty roads or not. On the basis of sucessfully travelling for 18 months without needing any other power input, we chose again to go with a compressor fridge & a separate compressor freezer in out current travel rig. In the past 4 years+ that we have been 'on the road' full time -we have never 'needed' to plug into mains power, and we don't carry a generator.
Just recently our fridge at around 12 years old began to freeze it's contents unexpectedly. $45 & a new thermistor/temp sensor has got it running like a champ again.
If you have room, I am a believer in keeping fridge & freezer separate as our previous experience with a fridge freezer with a single temp sensor whilst useable was always a bit too much of a compromise. Vegies like cucumber sometimes would partially freeze at the bottom of the upright fridge. For us a freezer is an essential aspect of our food storage as we prefer to remain off grid for extended periods between re-supplying.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 11:39:22 AM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 04:54:42 PM
iana said
02:02 PM Feb 15, 2022
I am not sure whether Graham is just going to go to his caravan supplier and just say "Install a compressor fridge", or is he going to say "Install a compressor fridge, but I have been advised do have this and do this etc." . Us making suggestions may be a waste of time, the experience we have gained, those of us actually using the compressor type fridges will fall on deaf ears :- the caravan suppler.
Cuppa makes some good points, particularly on the venting, and the idea of having two separate fridges. Be interested to see what eventuates.
Whenarewethere said
02:36 PM Feb 15, 2022
Cuppa wrote:
We had a gas fridge once. It struggled in the heat & required exta fans. The day that we stayed at a friends home & left the motorhome parked on the road outside, returning in the moring to find that the motorhome floor was wet & the contents of the freezer compartment had thawed out, my wife said "I just want a fridge that works". The problem was that the road outside our friends home was a moderate sloping hill.
Could have installed a vehicle auto leveling system!
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:49 PM Feb 15, 2022
We spent almost 24 hours like this... The compressor fridge (bottom LH of the pic) and DIY compressor freezer continued to operate as normal.
Compressor, they just work like your one at home and you can rely on a rock steady 4C fridge and -15C freezer.
Would never go back to an absorption fridge. They can only effectively cool down to approx. 28 to 30 degrees below ambient, yep, even the T rated ones. That means on a 40C day your fridge just cant cut it.
Over the years I've buggerised around with shades and fans and maybe got an extra 2-3C cooler, which helped, a bit.
A 90L absorption will chew through a 9kg gas bottle every 3 weeks. At $60 a fill in woop-woop that's a lot of $$$ doing a lap.
Our 190L Dometic uses 40-50 amps per 24 hours, regardless of the ambient temp, just depends on how many times I go get the mixer out for my scotch.
I have 450W solar and 200ah LiFePO4, so, 4 days in heavy shade depletes the batteries when combined with lights, tv, phones, etc.
Whenarewethere said
06:38 PM Feb 15, 2022
Hylife wrote:
Compressor, they just work like your one at home and you can rely on a rock steady 4C fridge and -15C freezer.
Would never go back to an absorption fridge. They can only effectively cool down to approx. 28 to 30 degrees below ambient, yep, even the T rated ones. That means on a 40C day your fridge just cant cut it.
Over the years I've buggerised around with shades and fans and maybe got an extra 2-3C cooler, which helped, a bit.
A 90L absorption will chew through a 9kg gas bottle every 3 weeks. At $60 a fill in woop-woop that's a lot of $$$ doing a lap.
Our 190L Dometic uses 40-50 amps per 24 hours, regardless of the ambient temp, just depends on how many times I go get the mixer out for my scotch.
I have 450W solar and 200ah LiFePO4, so, 4 days in heavy shade depletes the batteries when combined with lights, tv, phones, etc.
I extensively tested my compressor fridge, it will get down to 45° below ambient. Even a bit more if you push it, so about 47° if you cool the condenser really effectively.
I doubt that you will regret your decision to go for a compressor fridge. When I ordered my caravan, I was told that the 190 litre compressor fridge was fitted because it was more efficient than a 3-way. We have 300W solar and 240 Ah batteries. After a 5 month trip including weeks in 40 degrees plus, the fridge was perfect - freezer and fridge always cold and no spoiled food. Now in the driveway at home, the solar powers the fridge constantly during Melbourne summer and only in the depths of grey winter do I bother with 240V connection. The other consideration is that we only use gas for heating, cooking and HWS when free camping. A gas bottle seems to last several months. Getting Fridge fuel from the sun works for me...
gdayjr said
07:30 AM Feb 16, 2022
I have asked the manufacturer to put a compressor fridge in the new build.
To answer a few of the issues raised here are the specs on the caravan.
The caravan is a new Crusader Excalibur Prince.
It is a full composit build. It has a full Enerdrive battery and solar system with a Simarine upgrade.
2x 200ah Lithium batteries, 4x 180w Enerdrive solar panels, and another 200w portable panel that will be used in the prime mover as well.
Apart from the fridge, the only electrical draw will be with whatever domestic appliances i decide to use, which will not be a lot.
Wanda said
08:44 AM Feb 16, 2022
Power to burn, seriously, ask for an access door on the outside(small) and vent the fridge inside
Ian
Whenarewethere said
09:40 AM Feb 16, 2022
Wanda wrote:
Power to burn, seriously, ask for an access door on the outside(small) and vent the fridge inside Ian
Agree.
& replace the fan with a Noctua industrial fan, might as well do two of them while at it.
The generator and fuel are and never have been part of the caravan weight, batteries 60kg, panels not sure 15 or 20 kg, I also removed other dead weight, like 2nd spare wheel, BBQ and other assorted rarely or never used stuff.
But lets get this thread back on track this is about fridge choice, instead of 3Way v 12v Compressor v House fridge
It comes down to a simple equation:
A compressor fridge/freezer uses around 1kWh of energy per 24 hours therefore you must be *certain* your system can generate (guessing) around 50% more than this amount of energy *every single day* - the extra energy replaces battery charge for cloudy days. Unless your system can do this you run a very significant risk of losing your freezer contents. Whether you do this with solar alone or use a generator too is up to you but those are the mathematics and they are not open for debate... unless you have a confirmed patent on a perpetual energy machine...?
We had 2 x 8kg batteries. Needed to save weight to add more batteries, so replaced roof platform with 2 additional crossbars. Net weight saving was 16kg. So now have another 2 batteries, 4 x 8kg.
Technically we can run our fridge for a week, but after the fourth day we pull out the solar panels, 13.5kg, typically charges at 9 amps or drive & charge.
We have a small fridge but we only have 104AH, fridge draws about 15AH per 24 hours. We are also drawing well below the batteries 20 hour rating when the compressor is running.
We cook with metho, so no need to have the cost weight & inconvenience of gas.
"Are and never have been".Sorry Graham,but could you please explain the highlighted text above? Cheers
With the resources you have you could stick in a 75L -86°C medical freezer 870 x 555 x 555mm. 5kWh per 24 hours. That would be a cool feature!
Well thanks everyone for the opinions.
A compressor fridge is ordered.
part of the ute weight ie GVM
Well done with ordering a compressor fridge.You certainly won't regret not buying old technology.Cheers
I no longer have the exact figures available but from memory my 228ltr Samsung DI fridge running off the battery via a Victron 350Va Inverter drew 65ah per 24 hours.
I also recall an occasion in March 2019 after a move, arriving at a CP in SA after setting up I neglected to change over to shore power for the fridge by pure chance 3 days later I had noticed the change over hadnt been done, upon checking the battery state it was ok the solar panels had kept the batteries at 100%.
Get capital expenditure right & avoid expensive cyclic consumable costs.
It really was a yes or no question. I thought i worded it in such a way that all i was asking for was a simple answer, 3way, or compressor?
For those with room in the engine bay & very large battery setup, you could install a second alternator.
Just curious.
Regards Robert.
No and its right beside my bed . Its 12v system. In cupboard with single lining . If I wanted it quieter I guess I could fit light liner on the inside ? I did fit some insulation over whole fridge inside cabinet for good insulation . Good Installation helps . Its on thick rubber mat . https://www.outbackequipment.com.au/vitrifrigo-dp2600-2-door-fridge-freezer-230l-12-24?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5NDrgfX-9QIVwjUrCh1KoAMhEAQYISABEgJuEPD_BwE
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Monday 14th of February 2022 08:51:00 PM
We mostly sleep in the car & the fridge sits on the front passenger seat, a foot from our heads.
We can hear it, but it's not irritating, but I did put a quieter fan in it. The cover makes the compressor quieter & a bit of accoustic foam in a few gaps in compressor area.
It's a very quiet fridge.
If you have a noise issue use accoustic foam.
When I answer such questions I give freely of my knowledge and experience not only so the original poster may utilise it but, more importantly, in order that the many who subsequently find the thread via Google et al will have access to a wider knowledge base than simply yes or no which, mostly, is all but useless.
Compressor, without hesitation.
We had a gas fridge once. It struggled in the heat & required exta fans. The day that we stayed at a friends home & left the motorhome parked on the road outside, returning in the moring to find that the motorhome floor was wet & the contents of the freezer compartment had thawed out, my wife said "I just want a fridge that works". The problem was that the road outside our friends home was a moderate sloping hill.
We fitted a compressor fridge & suitable solar/batteries to run it. Having had a gas fridge originally, we had the original vent panels in the side of the vehicle. This became an issue eventually after driving on a lot of dusty outback roads. The dust got into the fan bearing & eventually created sufficient drag on the fan to need replacing it. After that we made a easily fitted & removeable cover in place of the vent, & fitted an interior vent. It was easy to swap between the two depending on whether we were driving on dusty roads or not. On the basis of sucessfully travelling for 18 months without needing any other power input, we chose again to go with a compressor fridge & a separate compressor freezer in out current travel rig. In the past 4 years+ that we have been 'on the road' full time -we have never 'needed' to plug into mains power, and we don't carry a generator.
Just recently our fridge at around 12 years old began to freeze it's contents unexpectedly. $45 & a new thermistor/temp sensor has got it running like a champ again.
If you have room, I am a believer in keeping fridge & freezer separate as our previous experience with a fridge freezer with a single temp sensor whilst useable was always a bit too much of a compromise. Vegies like cucumber sometimes would partially freeze at the bottom of the upright fridge. For us a freezer is an essential aspect of our food storage as we prefer to remain off grid for extended periods between re-supplying.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 11:39:22 AM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 04:54:42 PM
Cuppa makes some good points, particularly on the venting, and the idea of having two separate fridges. Be interested to see what eventuates.
Could have installed a vehicle auto leveling system!
We spent almost 24 hours like this...
The compressor fridge (bottom LH of the pic) and DIY compressor freezer continued to operate as normal.
Cheers,
Peter
Compressor, they just work like your one at home and you can rely on a rock steady 4C fridge and -15C freezer.
Would never go back to an absorption fridge. They can only effectively cool down to approx. 28 to 30 degrees below ambient, yep, even the T rated ones.
That means on a 40C day your fridge just cant cut it.
Over the years I've buggerised around with shades and fans and maybe got an extra 2-3C cooler, which helped, a bit.
A 90L absorption will chew through a 9kg gas bottle every 3 weeks. At $60 a fill in woop-woop that's a lot of $$$ doing a lap.
Our 190L Dometic uses 40-50 amps per 24 hours, regardless of the ambient temp, just depends on how many times I go get the mixer out for my scotch.
I have 450W solar and 200ah LiFePO4, so, 4 days in heavy shade depletes the batteries when combined with lights, tv, phones, etc.
I extensively tested my compressor fridge, it will get down to 45° below ambient. Even a bit more if you push it, so about 47° if you cool the condenser really effectively.
I doubt that you will regret your decision to go for a compressor fridge. When I ordered my caravan, I was told that the 190 litre compressor fridge was fitted because it was more efficient than a 3-way. We have 300W solar and 240 Ah batteries. After a 5 month trip including weeks in 40 degrees plus, the fridge was perfect - freezer and fridge always cold and no spoiled food. Now in the driveway at home, the solar powers the fridge constantly during Melbourne summer and only in the depths of grey winter do I bother with 240V connection. The other consideration is that we only use gas for heating, cooking and HWS when free camping. A gas bottle seems to last several months. Getting Fridge fuel from the sun works for me...
I have asked the manufacturer to put a compressor fridge in the new build.
To answer a few of the issues raised here are the specs on the caravan.
The caravan is a new Crusader Excalibur Prince.
It is a full composit build. It has a full Enerdrive battery and solar system with a Simarine upgrade.
2x 200ah Lithium batteries, 4x 180w Enerdrive solar panels, and another 200w portable panel that will be used in the prime mover as well.
Apart from the fridge, the only electrical draw will be with whatever domestic appliances i decide to use, which will not be a lot.
Ian
Agree.
& replace the fan with a Noctua industrial fan, might as well do two of them while at it.
Photo of fan down this page:
https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65059593/extra-fridge-insulation-wattage-test/
One less hole in the hull.
You are only looking at about 40 watts an hour on a large compressor fridge. You will have far more heat gain through a single window in an hour.