one thing about the anti smoke brigade is they will sit drinking coffee anf eating in aa foootath dining are in the city happily sniffin exhaust fumes all day. Go figure
cheers
blaze
montie said
08:10 AM Feb 20, 2021
The reality is there are people who smoke regardless of your opinion or distaste for the habit. It is not illegal to do so and many venues recognise this fact and provide facilities.
Caravan parks do not provide any designated smoking areas so my question to the anti smoking brigade is what would you suggest should be done about anybody smoking there.
Firing squad?
If a smoker in a caravan park has the courtesy to inform others by erecting a sign then don't park next to him and complain. Bit like the airport anology, build next to it and then whinge about the noise.
When we walk down the street we encounter all sorts of smells and aromas, carbon monoxide, cigarette, cooking, antiperspirants not to mention the noise and the list goes on. Get over it...life's too short.
Probably shorter for the smoker!
DMaxer said
09:35 AM Feb 20, 2021
I don't think they need do anything regarding the smokers, Montie. The smokers will do it all for us. If you recall a few years back it commenced with banning smoking from public transport then moved on to buildings, parks, beaches and finally clubs and pubs. This was brought about mainly from the injuries suffered by workers and patrons being subjected to passive smoking. Such things as the mess and pollution caused by discarded butts also assisted the move to ban smoking. The inconsiderate amongst the smoking brigade will soon bring this on themselves and we will find that smoking will be banned in all outdoor places leaving the smoker to sit at home and smoke to his heart's content (no pun intended).
The ridiculous analogy of considering it to be the same as buying land near an airport is beyond my comprehension. I don't recall at any time when checking in to a caravan park the manager informing me that I would be placed in the chain smoking or loud noise or generator section. One just goes in and then finds that one has encountered one of these selfish morons.
The other bleat about parking well away from everyone is wonderful. If you can park well away from everyone all that means is that you have arrived before others. When the park or free camp or whatever starts to fill up, does that mean that you can still do whatever it is that required you to be a distance away. I guess the old "I was here first so you all have to cop it or leave" mentality applies.
Using this logic of moving away from everyone and being there first and having signs erected or a visible indication of your intentions, does that mean if I get there first and put a sign up that says "No blowing smoke over me, no loud music and no generators" that everyone has to either obey my wishes or just move on?
One of the reasons that I bought my tug and caravan was that in my travels beforehand I had met so many wonderful and considerate people travelling in caravans. I didn't meet bogans or inconsiderate people, just nice people. I still think this way except every so often I meet a few and find it really disappointing.
montie said
10:23 AM Feb 20, 2021
DMaxer wrote:
I don't think they need do anything regarding the smokers, Montie. The smokers will do it all for us. If you recall a few years back it commenced with banning smoking from public transport then moved on to buildings, parks, beaches and finally clubs and pubs. This was brought about mainly from the injuries suffered by workers and patrons being subjected to passive smoking. Such things as the mess and pollution caused by discarded butts also assisted the move to ban smoking. The inconsiderate amongst the smoking brigade will soon bring this on themselves and we will find that smoking will be banned in all outdoor places leaving the smoker to sit at home and smoke to his heart's content (no pun intended).
The ridiculous analogy of considering it to be the same as buying land near an airport is beyond my comprehension. I don't recall at any time when checking in to a caravan park the manager informing me that I would be placed in the chain smoking or loud noise or generator section. One just goes in and then finds that one has encountered one of these selfish morons.
The other bleat about parking well away from everyone is wonderful. If you can park well away from everyone all that means is that you have arrived before others. When the park or free camp or whatever starts to fill up, does that mean that you can still do whatever it is that required you to be a distance away. I guess the old "I was here first so you all have to cop it or leave" mentality applies.
Using this logic of moving away from everyone and being there first and having signs erected or a visible indication of your intentions, does that mean if I get there first and put a sign up that says "No blowing smoke over me, no loud music and no generators" that everyone has to either obey my wishes or just move on?
One of the reasons that I bought my tug and caravan was that in my travels beforehand I had met so many wonderful and considerate people travelling in caravans. I didn't meet bogans or inconsiderate people, just nice people. I still think this way except every so often I meet a few and find it really disappointing.
Dmaxer,
That is your view to which you are entitled.
Can you or somebody offer a solution.....It's easy to complain. Are you suggesting that the smoker be evicted? Should the CP provide a dedicated smoking area like most other venues.?
Should smokers be banned from CP's?
There is no point in complaining unless you can offer a solution....otherwise you are just whinging for the sake of it.
So the question is what can be done about smokers, generators, engine warming, loud music, dogs barking, loud sex, early morning crows or kookaburra etc.,etc.,at CP's
And don't forget the guy cooking that garlic infused meal on his Webber or the guy down the back murdering a joint of weed!
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 20th of February 2021 10:26:22 AM
msg said
11:44 AM Feb 20, 2021
I suggest DMaxer only choose non-smoking camps. They are around. Those that don't like generators, fires or dogs there are those camps that cater for them as well. Or, as I said before, dob them into the cops that might be better than causing you upset and disharmony on the road.
DMaxer said
11:49 AM Feb 20, 2021
Montie, you seem to miss the point completely. Society does not have to have a solutions book for everything that may or may not eventuate. It just comes down to common courtesy. If you are in a group of people I imagine you don't start breaking wind, belching and picking your nose, common habits amongst people but something most don't do when around others. You do not need to be Einstein to understand that smoking is no longer socially acceptable by the majority and therefore if one wants to smoke, go away from the others and do it. If you are by yourself or out in the bush away from everyone else, then by all means drag away until your teeth are even yellower and your cough could wake the dead, but when others are around or decide to legally share your space, just appreciate that they don't share your love of a filthy habit.
No one has to be evicted or any other dramatical posturing. All that is needed is a bit of consideration that others are about who may not share your addiction. If one is unable to not smoke when people venture near or are around, then obviously their condition is much more severe and requires some serious therapy.
dogbox said
12:23 PM Feb 20, 2021
so should caravan parks impose conditions like
no smoking
no dogs (can't wash dog bed in laundry if no dogs)
no cats
no kids
no starting engines before 9 am
no cooking spicy meals
lights out 9 pm
no a/c before 9 am
a/c off 9 pm
no generators period
no noisy sex
TheHeaths said
12:29 PM Feb 20, 2021
Considerate people - Those who think like me and do what I think to be reasonable and acceptable.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 20th of February 2021 12:30:54 PM
DMaxer said
01:16 PM Feb 20, 2021
I don't think caravan parks should have to impose any conditions at all dogbox. I find that conditions or regulations are only ever imposed when people are either too brainless or inconsiderate to monitor their own behaviour that someone has to do it for them.
As to your definition The Heaths, if that is your view then so be it. My definition is different but there you go.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 20th of February 2021 01:17:06 PM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 20th of February 2021 01:17:24 PM
Mike Harding said
01:21 PM Feb 20, 2021
TheHeaths wrote:
Considerate people - Those who think like me and do what I think to be reasonable and acceptable.
I like it :)
It's the same logic as is used in classifying an alcoholic:
Clearly, it is someone who drinks more than I do :)
Dick0 said
04:22 PM Feb 20, 2021
vince56 wrote:
I don't smoke but I must say that we are becoming soooooo intolerant nowadays, for all who complain about smokers, how's, your generator? your loud music? your parking right next to another van when you don't need to? your huge over the top fire? your loud exhaust on the tug? your screaming kids? your loud chatting late at night? your treatment of facilities? your chainsaw? your early morning shuffling around the van? your leaving the site early, loudly!?
It goes on, we all have our issues........
And if you are parked in a caravan park like a sardine and paying dearly for it then don't also forget the...
Arguments
Burps
Farts
Noisy sex
Sometimes it can be quite entertaining listening to all that....and smelling the ciggy smoke at the same time.
orid said
05:58 PM Feb 20, 2021
Some people are just plain ignorant, I live opposite a national park ,there is a lady around the corner that walks her dog in the national park every day off the lead,
Infact its never on a lead she walks it on the beach just down the road off the lead ,big white thingy it is.
There are signs everywhere of course stating "no dogs allowed" in the national park .
The beach also has a large sign stating "dogs on a lead at all times"
She is very nice to talk to ,Doctors wife .
What can you do ? Don't want to dob her in .
I have spoken to her a couple times ,so now she tries to avoid me ,but still she does the same .
It is one reason why in the end ,the signs go up "NO DOGS"
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Regards Orid
-- Edited by orid on Saturday 20th of February 2021 06:00:30 PM
dogbox said
07:47 PM Feb 20, 2021
TheHeaths wrote:
Considerate people - Those who think like me and do what I think to be reasonable and acceptable.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 20th of February 2021 12:30:54 PM
what a boring place we would be in, if everyone was considerate . we would have to find some else to whinge an whine about or we could all stay home do nothing an all be happy
TheHeaths said
08:14 PM Feb 20, 2021
DMaxer wrote:
I don't think caravan parks should have to impose any conditions at all dogbox. I find that conditions or regulations are only ever imposed when people are either too brainless or inconsiderate to monitor their own behaviour that someone has to do it for them.
As to your definition The Heaths, if that is your view then so be it. My definition is different but there you go.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 20th of February 2021 01:17:06 PM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 20th of February 2021 01:17:24 PM
DMaxer,
not my definition or understanding, or expectation of others I meet, but is what I am gathering from many on this forum, is theirs.
Dogbox,
I agree, and as I say, my approach has always been to try and accept the actions of others, so long as they are legal. Sometimes of course, you do need to act to contain the very extreme and rare activities.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 20th of February 2021 08:16:06 PM
Craig1 said
09:18 PM Feb 20, 2021
Orid, does she pick up the inevitable barker eggs?
montie said
09:39 PM Feb 20, 2021
I live in a court beachside in a suburban community.
The guy next door (would you believe a doctor) is a smoker and the smoke obviously drifts over the wall to my place when he has a drag.
Neighbour on the other side has a very noisy air conditioner. Just about every home in the court has at least one dog....and guess what they bark..funny about that.
The guy across the court starts his diesel cruiser at 5 am....gives it a couple of revs before he sets off. Surfers arrive at 5am on weekends...pretty noisy lot and they smoke..not always cigarettes either.
Of course we have the occasional party.
And then we have those kookaburras and crows at daybreak...noisy bunch.
Now I haven't mentioned the green algie that hits the beach once a year....you worried about fag smoke? Cop this stuff for a month!
What a shxt place I live .....5 mins walk from the beach....but I do have a choice if I don't like the neighbours or their habits...I can sell up and move on. 10 acres in the middle of nowhere and 75% of my problems are solved.
You know what .....we've got a great lifestyle in Australia...stop whinging!
orid said
12:16 AM Feb 21, 2021
Craig dunno about that never followed her ,
knowing my luck she would put a restraining order on me for stalking !
Orid
Mike Harding said
08:38 AM Feb 21, 2021
orid wrote:
I live opposite a national park ,there is a lady around the corner that walks her dog in the national park every day off the lead,
Infact its never on a lead she walks it on the beach just down the road off the lead ,big white thingy it is.
My thought is: is she doing any harm by allowing her dog off lead?
DMaxer said
08:52 AM Feb 21, 2021
Montie, all the poster did was report on how his holiday was ruined by people next to him chain smoking. What relevance is your crusade of self righteousness in surviving urban living got to do with his health and holiday. The things you talk about happen in all suburban settings. Isn't that one of the reasons people get a van and go and enjoy natural settings and beauty? Or do you just look for something or somewhere that is identical in sound and conditions to where you live?
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 21st of February 2021 08:55:02 AM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 21st of February 2021 08:55:52 AM
DMaxer said
09:08 AM Feb 21, 2021
I think where the problem lies Mike is that the dog is then free to kill wildlife if that is the dog's disposition. The dog may well attack another person which brings in liability issues for the National Parks Service. Whilst most people with dogs are responsible there are always the boofheads that are irresponsible that results in these conditions being imposed.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 21st of February 2021 09:29:59 AM
Brodie Allen said
11:33 AM Feb 21, 2021
Bobdown wrote:
Brodie Allen wrote:
Stay out of sardine tin van parks and enjoy the fresh air.
If a bum comes close and blows smoke, farts or music or other inconsiderate activities, he's obviously a dope and needs a bit of a slap to convince him to move on.
It's useless to argue with bogans.
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Wednesday 17th of February 2021 07:45:35 PM
Very opinionated there Brodie, who made you the bogan police ?
Cheers Bob
Both my mum and a cousin - both died from lung cancer from second hand smoke.
second hand is more dangerous than the original to non smokers because non-smokers
have not developed the mucous that assists in insulating the lung from the poisons.
And if you can see/smell the smoke, you want to hope that there's no china virus along
for the ride! Shows how far the virus can travel, too.
montie said
11:45 AM Feb 21, 2021
DMaxer wrote:
Montie, all the poster did was report on how his holiday was ruined by people next to him chain smoking. What relevance is your crusade of self righteousness in surviving urban living got to do with his health and holiday. The things you talk about happen in all suburban settings. Isn't that one of the reasons people get a van and go and enjoy natural settings and beauty? Or do you just look for something or somewhere that is identical in sound and conditions to where you live?
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 21st of February 2021 08:55:02 AM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 21st of February 2021 08:55:52 AM
I am simply pointing out that if you park next to a smoker expect to smell some smoke!
DMaxer said
01:37 PM Feb 21, 2021
And if one comes and parks next to you, then sets up and starts chain smoking as in the case of Derek, what then Montie? Pack up and move to demonstrate to society how tolerant you are?
montie said
02:12 PM Feb 21, 2021
DMaxer wrote:
And if one comes and parks next to you, then sets up and starts chain smoking as in the case of Derek, what then Montie? Pack up and move to demonstrate to society how tolerant you are?
I haven't felt the need to demonstrate my tolerance to anybody.
-- Edited by montie on Sunday 21st of February 2021 06:03:52 PM
Wanda said
04:51 PM Feb 21, 2021
Its all about showing consideration and respecting others around you.
Its obvious from some of the replies on here that some of the forumites lack some of these qualities
Or
Arguing just for the sake of it
Ian
msg said
05:02 PM Feb 21, 2021
Wanda " arguing for the sake of it" epitomises you I think.
Mike Harding said
05:19 PM Feb 21, 2021
DMaxer wrote:
I think where the problem lies Mike is that the dog is then free to kill wildlife if that is the dog's disposition. The dog may well attack another person which brings in liability issues for the National Parks Service. Whilst most people with dogs are responsible there are always the boofheads that are irresponsible that results in these conditions being imposed.
Dogs, in Victoria (maybe other states?) are permitted to roam free in State Forests and those pet dogs don't seem to be a threat to wildlife and I expect any responsible dog carer to prevent their dog from doing such.
Again: the legal liability of government does not seem to be an issue in State Forests so I fail to see why it should in National Parks?
As for the ferals: Dmaxer as you well know there is nothing legislation can do to restrain such people - all we can do is punish them after the event - which often will have little effect and we should not dumb down society in order to deal with 2% of the population.
DMaxer said
08:18 PM Feb 21, 2021
In NSW the areas administered by State Forests are free entry Mike. National Parks charge and therein lies the difference in potential liability for occupiers liability.
As for ferals and bogans, you are absolutely right. Even if prosecuted very hard to get the penalty paid even if taken incrementally out of their dole.
cheers
blaze
Caravan parks do not provide any designated smoking areas so my question to the anti smoking brigade is what would you suggest should be done about anybody smoking there.
Firing squad?
If a smoker in a caravan park has the courtesy to inform others by erecting a sign then don't park next to him and complain. Bit like the airport anology, build next to it and then whinge about the noise.
When we walk down the street we encounter all sorts of smells and aromas, carbon monoxide, cigarette, cooking, antiperspirants not to mention the noise and the list goes on. Get over it...life's too short.
Probably shorter for the smoker!
I don't think they need do anything regarding the smokers, Montie. The smokers will do it all for us. If you recall a few years back it commenced with banning smoking from public transport then moved on to buildings, parks, beaches and finally clubs and pubs. This was brought about mainly from the injuries suffered by workers and patrons being subjected to passive smoking. Such things as the mess and pollution caused by discarded butts also assisted the move to ban smoking. The inconsiderate amongst the smoking brigade will soon bring this on themselves and we will find that smoking will be banned in all outdoor places leaving the smoker to sit at home and smoke to his heart's content (no pun intended).
The ridiculous analogy of considering it to be the same as buying land near an airport is beyond my comprehension. I don't recall at any time when checking in to a caravan park the manager informing me that I would be placed in the chain smoking or loud noise or generator section. One just goes in and then finds that one has encountered one of these selfish morons.
The other bleat about parking well away from everyone is wonderful. If you can park well away from everyone all that means is that you have arrived before others. When the park or free camp or whatever starts to fill up, does that mean that you can still do whatever it is that required you to be a distance away. I guess the old "I was here first so you all have to cop it or leave" mentality applies.
Using this logic of moving away from everyone and being there first and having signs erected or a visible indication of your intentions, does that mean if I get there first and put a sign up that says "No blowing smoke over me, no loud music and no generators" that everyone has to either obey my wishes or just move on?
One of the reasons that I bought my tug and caravan was that in my travels beforehand I had met so many wonderful and considerate people travelling in caravans. I didn't meet bogans or inconsiderate people, just nice people. I still think this way except every so often I meet a few and find it really disappointing.
Dmaxer,
That is your view to which you are entitled.
Can you or somebody offer a solution.....It's easy to complain. Are you suggesting that the smoker be evicted? Should the CP provide a dedicated smoking area like most other venues.?
Should smokers be banned from CP's?
There is no point in complaining unless you can offer a solution....otherwise you are just whinging for the sake of it.
So the question is what can be done about smokers, generators, engine warming, loud music, dogs barking, loud sex, early morning crows or kookaburra etc.,etc.,at CP's
And don't forget the guy cooking that garlic infused meal on his Webber or the guy down the back murdering a joint of weed!
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 20th of February 2021 10:26:22 AM
Montie, you seem to miss the point completely. Society does not have to have a solutions book for everything that may or may not eventuate. It just comes down to common courtesy. If you are in a group of people I imagine you don't start breaking wind, belching and picking your nose, common habits amongst people but something most don't do when around others. You do not need to be Einstein to understand that smoking is no longer socially acceptable by the majority and therefore if one wants to smoke, go away from the others and do it. If you are by yourself or out in the bush away from everyone else, then by all means drag away until your teeth are even yellower and your cough could wake the dead, but when others are around or decide to legally share your space, just appreciate that they don't share your love of a filthy habit.
No one has to be evicted or any other dramatical posturing. All that is needed is a bit of consideration that others are about who may not share your addiction. If one is unable to not smoke when people venture near or are around, then obviously their condition is much more severe and requires some serious therapy.
no smoking
no dogs (can't wash dog bed in laundry if no dogs)
no cats
no kids
no starting engines before 9 am
no cooking spicy meals
lights out 9 pm
no a/c before 9 am
a/c off 9 pm
no generators period
no noisy sex
Considerate people - Those who think like me and do what I think to be reasonable and acceptable.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 20th of February 2021 12:30:54 PM
I don't think caravan parks should have to impose any conditions at all dogbox. I find that conditions or regulations are only ever imposed when people are either too brainless or inconsiderate to monitor their own behaviour that someone has to do it for them.
As to your definition The Heaths, if that is your view then so be it. My definition is different but there you go.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 20th of February 2021 01:17:06 PM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 20th of February 2021 01:17:24 PM
I like it :)
It's the same logic as is used in classifying an alcoholic:
Clearly, it is someone who drinks more than I do :)
And if you are parked in a caravan park like a sardine and paying dearly for it then don't also forget the...
Arguments
Burps
Farts
Noisy sex
Sometimes it can be quite entertaining listening to all that....and smelling the ciggy smoke at the same time.
Some people are just plain ignorant, I live opposite a national park ,there is a lady around the corner that walks her dog in the national park every day off the lead,
Infact its never on a lead she walks it on the beach just down the road off the lead ,big white thingy it is.
There are signs everywhere of course stating "no dogs allowed" in the national park .
The beach also has a large sign stating "dogs on a lead at all times"
She is very nice to talk to ,Doctors wife .
What can you do ? Don't want to dob her in .
I have spoken to her a couple times ,so now she tries to avoid me ,but still she does the same .
It is one reason why in the end ,the signs go up "NO DOGS"
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Regards Orid
-- Edited by orid on Saturday 20th of February 2021 06:00:30 PM
what a boring place we would be in, if everyone was considerate . we would have to find some else to whinge an whine about or we could all stay home do nothing an all be happy
DMaxer,
not my definition or understanding, or expectation of others I meet, but is what I am gathering from many on this forum, is theirs.
Dogbox,
I agree, and as I say, my approach has always been to try and accept the actions of others, so long as they are legal. Sometimes of course, you do need to act to contain the very extreme and rare activities.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 20th of February 2021 08:16:06 PM
I live in a court beachside in a suburban community.
The guy next door (would you believe a doctor) is a smoker and the smoke obviously drifts over the wall to my place when he has a drag.
Neighbour on the other side has a very noisy air conditioner. Just about every home in the court has at least one dog....and guess what they bark..funny about that.
The guy across the court starts his diesel cruiser at 5 am....gives it a couple of revs before he sets off. Surfers arrive at 5am on weekends...pretty noisy lot and they smoke..not always cigarettes either.
Of course we have the occasional party.
And then we have those kookaburras and crows at daybreak...noisy bunch.
Now I haven't mentioned the green algie that hits the beach once a year....you worried about fag smoke? Cop this stuff for a month!
What a shxt place I live .....5 mins walk from the beach....but I do have a choice if I don't like the neighbours or their habits...I can sell up and move on. 10 acres in the middle of nowhere and 75% of my problems are solved.
You know what .....we've got a great lifestyle in Australia...stop whinging!
knowing my luck she would put a restraining order on me for stalking !
Orid
My thought is: is she doing any harm by allowing her dog off lead?
Montie, all the poster did was report on how his holiday was ruined by people next to him chain smoking. What relevance is your crusade of self righteousness in surviving urban living got to do with his health and holiday. The things you talk about happen in all suburban settings. Isn't that one of the reasons people get a van and go and enjoy natural settings and beauty? Or do you just look for something or somewhere that is identical in sound and conditions to where you live?
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 21st of February 2021 08:55:02 AM
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 21st of February 2021 08:55:52 AM
I think where the problem lies Mike is that the dog is then free to kill wildlife if that is the dog's disposition. The dog may well attack another person which brings in liability issues for the National Parks Service. Whilst most people with dogs are responsible there are always the boofheads that are irresponsible that results in these conditions being imposed.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 21st of February 2021 09:29:59 AM
Both my mum and a cousin - both died from lung cancer from second hand smoke.
second hand is more dangerous than the original to non smokers because non-smokers
have not developed the mucous that assists in insulating the lung from the poisons.
And if you can see/smell the smoke, you want to hope that there's no china virus along
for the ride! Shows how far the virus can travel, too.
I am simply pointing out that if you park next to a smoker expect to smell some smoke!
And if one comes and parks next to you, then sets up and starts chain smoking as in the case of Derek, what then Montie? Pack up and move to demonstrate to society how tolerant you are?
I haven't felt the need to demonstrate my tolerance to anybody.
-- Edited by montie on Sunday 21st of February 2021 06:03:52 PM
Its obvious from some of the replies on here that some of the forumites lack some of these qualities
Or
Arguing just for the sake of it
Ian
Dogs, in Victoria (maybe other states?) are permitted to roam free in State Forests and those pet dogs don't seem to be a threat to wildlife and I expect any responsible dog carer to prevent their dog from doing such.
Again: the legal liability of government does not seem to be an issue in State Forests so I fail to see why it should in National Parks?
As for the ferals: Dmaxer as you well know there is nothing legislation can do to restrain such people - all we can do is punish them after the event - which often will have little effect and we should not dumb down society in order to deal with 2% of the population.