Back home, the daily grind of driving down community transmission in Victoria has authorities worried because testing rates have been low.
Only one fresh local case was recorded in the state on Saturday, and none on Friday, but testing commander Jeroen Weimar indicated this was of little comfort.
"Our concern at the moment is there may well be more out there," he told reporters.
He encouraged Victorians to call each other out about virus symptoms to boost testing numbers.
I don't know how to feel about this. I am disturbed though. Is this a case of dobbing? Thats un-Australian, it makes me sad to think that this is happening. We should be getting tested and in times gone past we would have. Oh how our communities have changed. Hitler started this way by getting the youngsters to tell on their parents also likewise Mao. but..... Do people need to get dobbed in for not getting tested if they sneeze?
What is rot? The report or what I said. You can't just say something is rot without saying why. Suggest you "get real"yourself.
msg said
02:36 PM Jun 14, 2021
Commodore Eric Young from the Vaccine Operations Centre.
Along with commander we now have a commoodore giving orders on medical issues in victoria. Why the distinctly military impression to a medical issue?
Dicko1 said
03:59 PM Jun 14, 2021
msg wrote:
What is rot? The report or what I said. You can't just say something is rot without saying why. Suggest you "get real"yourself.
Your comment about people being dobbers. Absolute load of crap. People were simply asked to have a word in the ear of friends/family /mates/ work colleagues etc. to get the vaccine. Who are they going to dob to ? What law would they be breaking that results in a dobbing?
oldbloke said
09:46 PM Jun 15, 2021
You don't need to be a Dr to manage contact tracing. Its got nothing to do with medicine.
dorian said
03:14 AM Jun 16, 2021
msg wrote:
Commodore Eric Young from the Vaccine Operations Centre.
Along with commander we now have a commoodore giving orders on medical issues in victoria. Why the distinctly military impression to a medical issue?
It does seem an inappropriate choice, but our former Governor General was Chief of Army, so it's not unusual. Perhaps a military man possesses the organisational skills required to mobilise people in a crisis?
Craig1 said
09:21 AM Jun 16, 2021
And now a Victorian school has told "work experience kids" do not do this, work from home!!
Santa said
09:40 AM Jun 16, 2021
msg wrote:
Commodore Eric Young from the Vaccine Operations Centre.
Along with commander we now have a commoodore giving orders on medical issues in victoria. Why the distinctly military impression to a medical issue?
It was the organisational expertise of the Australian military that sorted out the mess after Cyclone Tracy on Christmas day 1974, don't be so quick to judge.
"The Director General of the National Disasters Organisation, Major General AB Stretton, DSO, arrived in Darwin on 26 December with his staff officers to establish an Emergency Services Organisation Committee. Captain EE Johnston, OBE, RAN, Naval Officer Commanding the North Australia Area (NOCNA), was appointed to the committee as Port Controller, with responsibility for controlling the port and its approaches, and for drafting an Emergency Plan in the event of a further cyclone.
As preparations were made for the arrival of the naval task group, Captain Johnston relocated the naval headquarters to his residence, Admiralty House. Following an exchange of signal traffic between FOCAF and NOCNA, it was agreed that the RAN relief force would be allocated responsibility for clearing and restoring 4740 houses in the northern suburbs of Nightcliff, Rapid Creek and Casuarina. HS748 aircraft continued to ferry personnel and stores to Darwin and evacuees south. Evacuees were accommodated in HMAS Kuttabul, HMAS Penguin and HMAS Watson in Sydney; and HMAS Moreton in Brisbane. CDT1 was surveying damage to the patrol boats and civilian craft, searching for missing vessels, clearing Stokes and Fort Hill Wharves, and assessing how to extract the wreck of Arrow."
DMaxer said
10:41 AM Jun 16, 2021
Whilst I do not doubt the expertise of the military to undertake and complete these tasks it is my view that the more people that can be involved the easier it is to spread the blame and avoid scrutiny when things go wrong.
If and when these tasks are successfully completed there will be one person claiming responsibility for any successes.
No prizes for guessing who that will be.
bgt said
11:17 AM Jun 16, 2021
Would someone please define for me the title "medical expert"?
Each state has elected politicians to run their respective states. Yet, according to the politicians, they are relying on unelected "medical experts" to advise them.
Now tell me that the politicians and "medical experts" aren't speaking to each other before any actions are taken. Are politicians guided by the "experts" or are the "experts" guided by the politicians?
And if the "medical experts" are the "experts" then please explain why each state is getting different advice?
I would suggest that the "medical experts" are 'encouraged" to follow a political line.
Cupie said
11:20 AM Jun 16, 2021
It really gets on my goat when the media & others suggest that this immunisation program is such a momentous, bound to fail project.
As a senior Operations Manager in a previous life, I can tell you from experience that this sort of thing is not really rocket science but rather the bread & butter of Operations Management.
Sometimes as I doze in my squatters chair out in the beautiful Qld. winter sun I war game how I would go about it's implementation using tried and tested systems & processes. Back in the day I/we successfully tackled numerous such projects (of course not as substantial as this one) & I reckon that there are many Operations Managers who could comfortably handle this.
But where are they.
In the good old days we had a highly competent Public Service that had that expertise .. ie Implementing Govt Policy. But parties of all persuasions took razor gangs to the Public Service, decimating them & turfing out their invaluable experts, installing in their place loyal party hacks with bull****e degrees and usually buggar all operational expertise. Of course the answer to every difficult task became 'Employ Contractors' Buggar me they even lack the expertise to effectively draw up appropriate contracts & then manage the contractors.
I do see however that perhaps one of the last remaining centres of Operational effectiveness under Govt control is our armed forces, under manned as they may be. I am confident in their ability to get this job done & should have been involved way back when.
Sure, once the program is successfully implemented that guy will certainly push others out of the way to claim credit, but not taking responsibility for his stumbles/failures along the way.
There are just so many examples of projects that our various Govts have stuffed up due to poor implementation.
End of Rant.
bgt said
01:35 PM Jun 16, 2021
Cupie I think it's even more simple than that. No one wants the responsibility. Sure they will take the credit but hide when it goes pear shaped. (I don't recall). We are now seeing tasks that 'should' be simple, being made harder simply because those with the responsibility wont, or can't, solve a problem.
eg, why did the Victorian government/public servants, lock down regional Victoria along with Melbourne. The simple answer isn't to control covid. The answer is that they couldn't solve the problems of differing solutions. So rather than work out a system that addressed the local situation they threw up their collective hands and figured that one response would be easier to figure out. So those who were 100's of k away from the problem were subjected to the same solution.
msg said
02:34 PM Jun 16, 2021
Jeroen is Commander of the COVID-19 Response, working with a team of clinicians, public health experts, and operations specialists to protect the Victorian community.
Prior to joining the Department of Health in July 2020, Jeroen was Chief Executive Officer for Public Transport Victoria and VicRoads.
A graduate of the London School of Economics, Jeroen first began his career in management consulting, working with clients in the United Kingdom, Europe and the United States.
He then held several high-profile roles over ten years with Transport for London (TfL) including Chief of Staff and Chief Operating Officer (Surface Transport).
Following his time with TfL, Jeroen served as Managing Director, UK Transport for Serco Group plc, and then Chief Operating Officer - UK Bus at FirstGroup plc.
It would seem Commander is a role within The COVID Responce. Weimar is no more a Military Commander than I am. He has a degree in Economics. A beancounter that every one despises if you please.
" the only taste of success some people get is to take a bite out of you". - Zig Ziglar
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 02:36:15 PM
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 02:53:12 PM
Cupie said
07:02 PM Jun 16, 2021
My post was in relation to the appointment of Lt. Gen JJ Frewen to lead the Vaccination task force.
If indeed Jeroen Weimar's responsibilities extended to include the National Vaccination Implementation, then despite his impressive CV, it seems that he may well have not delivered in that part of his duties.
I have observed first hand, countless executives who contributed nothing, except to add yet another page to their CV. Many of them moved on before the consequences of their decisions were revealed. I tend to favour those who stay for the long haul.
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 07:11:05 PM
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 07:14:45 PM
msg said
07:57 PM Jun 16, 2021
Stop Prevaricating. Cupie. You know very well that I could care less about the quals. it was about the fact that the Victorian Govt felt it necessary to create positions with inferred military titles. Why? They already have the biggest bullies on the streets anyway. Is Victoria under military control? (being facetious if you can't work that out either.)
Santa said
09:55 PM Jun 16, 2021
If the past 18 months have taught us anything.
It's that stupidity spreads faster than any virus ever could.
Stop Prevaricating. Cupie. You know very well that I could care less about the quals. it was about the fact that the Victorian Govt felt it necessary to create positions with inferred military titles. Why? They already have the biggest bullies on the streets anyway. Is Victoria under military control? (being facetious if you can't work that out either.)
Ha Ha ... I wrote out about a page in reply to this but on reflection I think that the most appropriate response is LOL
ps Are you being facetious in your suggestion that I was prevaricating? LOL again
pps .. I am completely unaware of the Victorian Covid Response Group structure or the nomenclature that they have chosen.
Trevor 57 said
06:09 AM Jun 17, 2021
I laugh when I read 'military people are the best at logistics' - what a crock - they have a million resources sitting there waiting to be used, no push-back from customers, nothing - you people need to go and sit in the operations room of any large road transport business or the operations centre of any of Australia's ports and see 'real' logistics in place
oldbloke said
03:23 PM Jun 17, 2021
I've worked with a few x military personnel.
My conclusion was the higher the rank the bigger the bully. And not particularly competent.
But I'm sure many are ok.
Dicko1 said
03:50 PM Jun 17, 2021
bgt wrote:
Would someone please define for me the title "medical expert"?
Each state has elected politicians to run their respective states. Yet, according to the politicians, they are relying on unelected "medical experts" to advise them.
Now tell me that the politicians and "medical experts" aren't speaking to each other before any actions are taken. Are politicians guided by the "experts" or are the "experts" guided by the politicians?
And if the "medical experts" are the "experts" then please explain why each state is getting different advice?
I would suggest that the "medical experts" are 'encouraged" to follow a political line.
Good luck with that..
I,m totally perplexed as to the status of "guru" on this forum...surely sarcasm...
Trevor 57 said
03:54 PM Jun 17, 2021
oldbloke wrote:
I've worked with a few x military personnel.
My conclusion was the higher the rank the bigger the bully. And not particularly competent.
But I'm sure many are ok.
well said.
I use to be responsible for employing people into a particular specialised industry and as soon as I received an application from anyone ex-ADF who had been in the ADF for longer than 10 years I would just send them a 'Dear John' letter, they never got past go - we got burnt too many times
oldbloke said
07:10 PM Jun 17, 2021
msg wrote:
Commodore Eric Young from the Vaccine Operations Centre.
Along with commander we now have a commoodore giving orders on medical issues in victoria. Why the distinctly military impression to a medical issue?
Yes, I laughed when those "ranks" were used.
msg said
10:18 PM Jun 17, 2021
Greater Darwin Area · Acting Commander - Incident Controller - Emergency Operation Centre (EOC), COVID-19 Response · Northern Territory Police, Fire and Emergency Services
Sachin Sharma | Greater Darwin Area | Acting Commander - Incident Controller - Emergency Operation Centre (EOC), COVID-19 Response at Northern Territory ...
Looks like this military theme is growing. Bad. I wonder if N.T. are being encouraged to dob people in as well?
dorian said
06:00 AM Jun 18, 2021
msg wrote:
Greater Darwin Area · Acting Commander - Incident Controller - Emergency Operation Centre (EOC), COVID-19 Response · Northern Territory Police, Fire and Emergency Services Sachin Sharma | Greater Darwin Area | Acting Commander - Incident Controller - Emergency Operation Centre (EOC), COVID-19 Response at Northern Territory ...
Looks like this military theme is growing. Bad. I wonder if N.T. are being encouraged to dob people in as well?
What a bizarre, paranoid rant. You really have lost the plot. I agree that the military aren't the best people to be in charge of vaccine deployment, but to imply that there is some covert Hitler-esque agenda is just too stupid for words. Maybe you've forgotten that the same military resources were employed during last year's bushfire crisis?
BTW, I do wish that the authorities would hold down the antivaxxers and give them a jab where it hurts the most, but I'm not running the country.
Trevor 57 said
06:22 AM Jun 18, 2021
msg wrote:
Greater Darwin Area · Acting Commander - Incident Controller - Emergency Operation Centre (EOC), COVID-19 Response · Northern Territory Police, Fire and Emergency Services Sachin Sharma | Greater Darwin Area | Acting Commander - Incident Controller - Emergency Operation Centre (EOC), COVID-19 Response at Northern Territory ...
Looks like this military theme is growing. Bad. I wonder if N.T. are being encouraged to dob people in as well?
Do you actually know what those titles actually mean? I do
Trevor 57 said
06:27 AM Jun 18, 2021
The whole 'using military' since the pandemic started has been a Furphy - people were/are chanting "USE THE ARMY TO CONTROL . . . . . . . ." Fact is the Australian ADF CANNOT turn on their own in any sort of military action, i.e. carry guns to ward off Australians, they cannot take any combat role against their own citizens, all they can do is provide manpower to get stuff done and to look important - in the last 18 months you would not have seen one ADF person carrying a weapon in any pandemic role
People get all excited with themselves
-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Friday 18th of June 2021 06:27:53 AM
msg said
06:50 AM Jun 18, 2021
Who said it had anything to do with the Australian Defence Forces ?
Cupie said
07:58 AM Jun 18, 2021
That's enough for me. I'll unsubscribe from this thread.
I wish I could but I am not allowed out to even escape we are all locked up!! And no one wants us Mexicans!!!
Deleted
-- Edited by oldbloke on Monday 14th of June 2021 03:20:20 AM
What a load of rot. Get real.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Along with commander we now have a commoodore giving orders on medical issues in victoria. Why the distinctly military impression to a medical issue?
Your comment about people being dobbers. Absolute load of crap. People were simply asked to have a word in the ear of friends/family /mates/ work colleagues etc. to get the vaccine. Who are they going to dob to ? What law would they be breaking that results in a dobbing?
It does seem an inappropriate choice, but our former Governor General was Chief of Army, so it's not unusual. Perhaps a military man possesses the organisational skills required to mobilise people in a crisis?
It was the organisational expertise of the Australian military that sorted out the mess after Cyclone Tracy on Christmas day 1974, don't be so quick to judge.
https://www.navy.gov.au/history/feature-histories/disaster-relief-cyclone-tracy-and-tasman-bridge
"The Director General of the National Disasters Organisation, Major General AB Stretton, DSO, arrived in Darwin on 26 December with his staff officers to establish an Emergency Services Organisation Committee. Captain EE Johnston, OBE, RAN, Naval Officer Commanding the North Australia Area (NOCNA), was appointed to the committee as Port Controller, with responsibility for controlling the port and its approaches, and for drafting an Emergency Plan in the event of a further cyclone.
As preparations were made for the arrival of the naval task group, Captain Johnston relocated the naval headquarters to his residence, Admiralty House. Following an exchange of signal traffic between FOCAF and NOCNA, it was agreed that the RAN relief force would be allocated responsibility for clearing and restoring 4740 houses in the northern suburbs of Nightcliff, Rapid Creek and Casuarina. HS748 aircraft continued to ferry personnel and stores to Darwin and evacuees south. Evacuees were accommodated in HMAS Kuttabul, HMAS Penguin and HMAS Watson in Sydney; and HMAS Moreton in Brisbane. CDT1 was surveying damage to the patrol boats and civilian craft, searching for missing vessels, clearing Stokes and Fort Hill Wharves, and assessing how to extract the wreck of Arrow."
Whilst I do not doubt the expertise of the military to undertake and complete these tasks it is my view that the more people that can be involved the easier it is to spread the blame and avoid scrutiny when things go wrong.
If and when these tasks are successfully completed there will be one person claiming responsibility for any successes.
No prizes for guessing who that will be.
Each state has elected politicians to run their respective states. Yet, according to the politicians, they are relying on unelected "medical experts" to advise them.
Now tell me that the politicians and "medical experts" aren't speaking to each other before any actions are taken. Are politicians guided by the "experts" or are the "experts" guided by the politicians?
And if the "medical experts" are the "experts" then please explain why each state is getting different advice?
I would suggest that the "medical experts" are 'encouraged" to follow a political line.
It really gets on my goat when the media & others suggest that this immunisation program is such a momentous, bound to fail project.
As a senior Operations Manager in a previous life, I can tell you from experience that this sort of thing is not really rocket science but rather the bread & butter of Operations Management.
Sometimes as I doze in my squatters chair out in the beautiful Qld. winter sun I war game how I would go about it's implementation using tried and tested systems & processes. Back in the day I/we successfully tackled numerous such projects (of course not as substantial as this one) & I reckon that there are many Operations Managers who could comfortably handle this.
But where are they.
In the good old days we had a highly competent Public Service that had that expertise .. ie Implementing Govt Policy. But parties of all persuasions took razor gangs to the Public Service, decimating them & turfing out their invaluable experts, installing in their place loyal party hacks with bull****e degrees and usually buggar all operational expertise. Of course the answer to every difficult task became 'Employ Contractors' Buggar me they even lack the expertise to effectively draw up appropriate contracts & then manage the contractors.
I do see however that perhaps one of the last remaining centres of Operational effectiveness under Govt control is our armed forces, under manned as they may be. I am confident in their ability to get this job done & should have been involved way back when.
Sure, once the program is successfully implemented that guy will certainly push others out of the way to claim credit, but not taking responsibility for his stumbles/failures along the way.
There are just so many examples of projects that our various Govts have stuffed up due to poor implementation.
End of Rant.
eg, why did the Victorian government/public servants, lock down regional Victoria along with Melbourne. The simple answer isn't to control covid. The answer is that they couldn't solve the problems of differing solutions. So rather than work out a system that addressed the local situation they threw up their collective hands and figured that one response would be easier to figure out. So those who were 100's of k away from the problem were subjected to the same solution.
Jeroen is Commander of the COVID-19 Response, working with a team of clinicians, public health experts, and operations specialists to protect the Victorian community.
Prior to joining the Department of Health in July 2020, Jeroen was Chief Executive Officer for Public Transport Victoria and VicRoads.
A graduate of the London School of Economics, Jeroen first began his career in management consulting, working with clients in the United Kingdom, Europe and the United States.
He then held several high-profile roles over ten years with Transport for London (TfL) including Chief of Staff and Chief Operating Officer (Surface Transport).
Following his time with TfL, Jeroen served as Managing Director, UK Transport for Serco Group plc, and then Chief Operating Officer - UK Bus at FirstGroup plc.
It would seem Commander is a role within The COVID Responce. Weimar is no more a Military Commander than I am. He has a degree in Economics. A beancounter that every one despises if you please.
" the only taste of success some people get is to take a bite out of you". - Zig Ziglar
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 02:36:15 PM
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 02:53:12 PM
My post was in relation to the appointment of Lt. Gen JJ Frewen to lead the Vaccination task force.
If indeed Jeroen Weimar's responsibilities extended to include the National Vaccination Implementation, then despite his impressive CV, it seems that he may well have not delivered in that part of his duties.
I have observed first hand, countless executives who contributed nothing, except to add yet another page to their CV. Many of them moved on before the consequences of their decisions were revealed. I tend to favour those who stay for the long haul.
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 07:11:05 PM
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 16th of June 2021 07:14:45 PM
If the past 18 months have taught us anything.
It's that stupidity spreads faster than any virus ever could.
Ha Ha ... I wrote out about a page in reply to this but on reflection I think that the most appropriate response is LOL
ps Are you being facetious in your suggestion that I was prevaricating? LOL again
pps .. I am completely unaware of the Victorian Covid Response Group structure or the nomenclature that they have chosen.
My conclusion was the higher the rank the bigger the bully. And not particularly competent.
But I'm sure many are ok.
well said.
I use to be responsible for employing people into a particular specialised industry and as soon as I received an application from anyone ex-ADF who had been in the ADF for longer than 10 years I would just send them a 'Dear John' letter, they never got past go - we got burnt too many times
Yes, I laughed when those "ranks" were used.
Sachin Sharma | Greater Darwin Area | Acting Commander - Incident Controller - Emergency Operation Centre (EOC), COVID-19 Response at Northern Territory ...
Looks like this military theme is growing. Bad. I wonder if N.T. are being encouraged to dob people in as well?
What a bizarre, paranoid rant. You really have lost the plot. I agree that the military aren't the best people to be in charge of vaccine deployment, but to imply that there is some covert Hitler-esque agenda is just too stupid for words. Maybe you've forgotten that the same military resources were employed during last year's bushfire crisis?
BTW, I do wish that the authorities would hold down the antivaxxers and give them a jab where it hurts the most, but I'm not running the country.
Do you actually know what those titles actually mean? I do
The whole 'using military' since the pandemic started has been a Furphy - people were/are chanting "USE THE ARMY TO CONTROL . . . . . . . ." Fact is the Australian ADF CANNOT turn on their own in any sort of military action, i.e. carry guns to ward off Australians, they cannot take any combat role against their own citizens, all they can do is provide manpower to get stuff done and to look important - in the last 18 months you would not have seen one ADF person carrying a weapon in any pandemic role
People get all excited with themselves
-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Friday 18th of June 2021 06:27:53 AM
That's enough for me. I'll unsubscribe from this thread.