EUROPE OFFICIALY BANS ICE CARS FOR SALE AFTER 2035.
yobarr said
02:56 PM Mar 5, 2023
Wizardofoz wrote:them
Sure, they can build them, but Australia's problem is charging them not supply of the vehicles...we are miles short of the necessary supply right now, and it is long time from being serviceable Country wide. Not only that, for the average Joe, battery replacements range from $20,000 to $50,000 (Tesla), and that may occur from 10 years of purchase...a killer for most and a certain killer for the next buyer.
Settle back Ray! Way too much logic in the post above, and your post at 4.49am today, for the average EV dreamer to comprehend. Cheers
Whenarewethere said
03:21 PM Mar 5, 2023
On average the km done by Australian cars works out to less than 8kWh of overnight charging. A 10amp outlet is more than adequate.
This can also be easily managed in blocks of units with timed outlets for the owners. Actually had this discussion with my electrician who was putting in a new 80L Rheem Stellar hot water system 3.6kW load. When everyone turns them on in the morning there is a pretty intense load after the first few litres of one's shower.
If every car in Australia was an EV the additional energy load is a bit less than the drop in energy in 2021 due to Covid reduction of energy usage.
So as far as EVs refer to Dad's Army: 'Don't Panic, don't panic!'
Are We Lost said
03:41 PM Mar 5, 2023
Wizardofoz wrote:
........ battery replacements range from $20,000 to around $50,000 (Tesla), and that may occur from 10 years of purchase...a killer for most and a certain killer for the next buyer.
So, around the same cost as a new engine for todays' vehicles. I wonder what the value of a 10 year old EV with original battery will be? At 10 years old for my vehicle it would be borderline whether to scrap it or get a similar 10 year old engine from a wrecker. Not justifiable to fit a new one. Can't do the same for EV because all 10 year old batteries would be end of life.
So, who would buy that 10 year old EV? Only someone with limited budget, but that may be a very expensive mistake.
Motoring is going to get very expensive.
For those interested, here is a video of an EV test, comparing consumption towing vs not towing. The vehicle is a BMW iX M60 towing a 26 foot but lightweight van for 150 kilometres.
It's a long video and I skipped plenty. The summary is around the 32:00 mark. The tow vehicle is a beast with huge 116kwh battery and the van light. The roads were mainly motorway and flat so a really easy drive. Estimated range with full battery not much over 200 kilometres. I wonder what the range would be in hilly country.
Wizardofoz said
09:29 PM Mar 5, 2023
I have 2 motor vehicles, I in my FNQ home, a 2009 Hyundai Santa Fe (diesel), it has 140,000 on the clock...my Car in my Illawarra NSW home was my former work and then caravan vehicle, a 2007 Toyota Landcruiser (petrol), it has 185,000 on the clock. Both vehicles are going as well as ever and in their present state and condition, will see me out to the end so no need to replace...if I did, the cost would be huge to do so. It is only my opinion, but I believe that most EV's would have had at best, major updates battery wise at this age...it is all debatable and subjective as the future is a forecast and yet to unfold....for me, I'll remain an EV dinosaur with no regrets!!!
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Sunday 5th of March 2023 09:30:24 PM
deverall11 said
10:16 AM Mar 6, 2023
Wizardofoz wrote:
I'll remain an EV dinosaur with no regrets!!!
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Sunday 5th of March 2023 09:30:24 PM
Do not understand the need for such negative outlooks. No one, but no one is forcing you, telling
you, making you sell your cars. What's your problem. I have a 200 series Landcruiser. This is the
only car we have. It has to be shared between us to get to various activities. Am I about to sell
this and buy an EV. An emphatic no as we cannot afford it. As you, our Landcruiser works
perfectly well in its present state and condition. Further more, we have enough solar on the
roof that would make charging an EV free. Free Ray. The prohibitive purchase cost of an EV
precludes us from buying one even though 'fuel' costs would be free. Registration and
insurance be about the same. Regular service would also be a thing of the past. Would I miss
having to purchase 10 litres of diesel oil, a filter and spend time under the car performing
an oil change every 10k km? No. There are many benefits for many to be had. Obviously
out of the immediate city boundaries it is different. No one is holding a gun to my head or
forcing me to sell my beloved Landcruiser for an EV. But the option is there. No need to
knock it. Yes a dinosaur in your view but perhaps a case of head in the sand.
TimTim said
07:47 PM Mar 6, 2023
Interesting video on the battery converted trucks. They have an upfront charge and a charge per km for battery use. It appears they have done a capitol raising and plan to put battery changeover facilities between Sydney and Melbourne. Of course once in the market the prices per km will rise and to maximise their profits they will only do what they consider the most profitable on the most economical routes. The rest of the country can then find their own solutions. I love how they say there will be cheaper supermarket prices. Yeah and pigs can fly!
Battery technology will change long before they are all battery operated trucks in 40 years time, the issue is there is no plan and never will be. We build cities and expand them without any planning and the politicians cause all sorts of issues but as long as the politicians are not affected then all is good. Do you really believe that is all going to change for rural Australia?
Meanwhile, I will dream about flying in my battery powered aeroplane and cruising on a battery operated cruise ship because fossil fuels are here for a very long time yet.
Whenarewethere said
09:18 PM Mar 6, 2023
Those electric cruise ships are starting to happen!
We went on an electric ferry in France in 2011, ok only a ferry but it worked perfectly ok & it mostly charged itself with solar panels.
Those two headed people in Tasmania are showing where there brain power is going!
'Amongst vessels under construction at the shipyard is a 130 metre lightweight ferry, originally intended to be powered by LNG, that will carry 2100 passengers and 226 vehicles'
Wizardofoz said
04:42 AM Mar 7, 2023
deverall11 wrote:
Wizardofoz wrote:
I'll remain an EV dinosaur with no regrets!!!
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Sunday 5th of March 2023 09:30:24 PM
Do not understand the need for such negative outlooks. No one, but no one is forcing you, telling
you, making you sell your cars. What's your problem. I have a 200 series Landcruiser. This is the
only car we have. It has to be shared between us to get to various activities. Am I about to sell
this and buy an EV. An emphatic no as we cannot afford it. As you, our Landcruiser works
perfectly well in its present state and condition. Further more, we have enough solar on the
roof that would make charging an EV free. Free Ray. The prohibitive purchase cost of an EV
precludes us from buying one even though 'fuel' costs would be free. Registration and
insurance be about the same. Regular service would also be a thing of the past. Would I miss
having to purchase 10 litres of diesel oil, a filter and spend time under the car performing
an oil change every 10k km? No. There are many benefits for many to be had. Obviously
out of the immediate city boundaries it is different. No one is holding a gun to my head or
forcing me to sell my beloved Landcruiser for an EV. But the option is there. No need to
knock it. Yes a dinosaur in your view but perhaps a case of head in the sand.
"Head in the sand"....Nah, Who said anybody was forcing me too change...just my choice and I am happy, what's wrong with that, are personal choice and options now dead, it seems so by the comments!!!
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Tuesday 7th of March 2023 04:44:36 AM
vince56 said
08:27 AM Mar 8, 2023
All the above has it's merits, but WHY do governments have to LEGISLATE change? If this EV push is a no-brainer then let the market decide when they will buy one, STOP telling us how to live!!
Been doing a bit of research, with all the scare mongering by climate alarmists I am scared stiff that my grandkids are going to be fried to a crisp if they so much as walk outside to get grandad's paper from the garden. Also concerned about the shutting down of reliable power and lining the pockets of elites who are heavily invested in renewables.
From what I have recently read, CO2 in the atmosphere is 3 to 4% of Trace Gasses. Trace Gasses make up 0.1% of the atmosphere. Human-created CO2 makes up 3% of CO2 going into the air . So, correct me if I'm wrong, does that mean all of this Climate Change is brought on by us making 3% of 3-4% of 0.1%?
-- Edited by vince56 on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:51:03 AM
Whenarewethere said
08:48 AM Mar 8, 2023
We don't have children so couldn't give a stuff about the future!
Actually we do, worried about our nieces & nephews & great neices & nephews.
Not only climate change but how we have vastly shortened the long term effectiveness of antibiotics due to pointless overuse, including stuffing them into animals & fish farms by the thousands of tonnes.
Next generation, hip replacement & heart surgery may have gone out the window.
vince56 said
05:36 PM Mar 8, 2023
BTW Germany has just put the brakes on this 2035 ban on ICE, they want synthetic fuels to be allowed.
Craig1 said
09:54 AM Mar 9, 2023
Wow, 100 posts and the thread still goes, a few comments a bit off, but in general quite polite. Is this a sign for the better?
TimTim said
05:52 PM Mar 13, 2023
Electric cruise ships are a long way off and the same with commercial aircraft. Yes electric ferries are being built but they have their limitations and the same with aircraft.
Interestingly I once read an article that stated that will all the wind farms in the US they did not generate enough power to close one power station. I have no idea whether that is correct though.
Settle back Ray! Way too much logic in the post above, and your post at 4.49am today, for the average EV dreamer to comprehend. Cheers
On average the km done by Australian cars works out to less than 8kWh of overnight charging. A 10amp outlet is more than adequate.
This can also be easily managed in blocks of units with timed outlets for the owners. Actually had this discussion with my electrician who was putting in a new 80L Rheem Stellar hot water system 3.6kW load. When everyone turns them on in the morning there is a pretty intense load after the first few litres of one's shower.
If every car in Australia was an EV the additional energy load is a bit less than the drop in energy in 2021 due to Covid reduction of energy usage.
So as far as EVs refer to Dad's Army: 'Don't Panic, don't panic!'
So, around the same cost as a new engine for todays' vehicles. I wonder what the value of a 10 year old EV with original battery will be? At 10 years old for my vehicle it would be borderline whether to scrap it or get a similar 10 year old engine from a wrecker. Not justifiable to fit a new one. Can't do the same for EV because all 10 year old batteries would be end of life.
So, who would buy that 10 year old EV? Only someone with limited budget, but that may be a very expensive mistake.
Motoring is going to get very expensive.
For those interested, here is a video of an EV test, comparing consumption towing vs not towing. The vehicle is a BMW iX M60 towing a 26 foot but lightweight van for 150 kilometres.
EV Towing test
It's a long video and I skipped plenty. The summary is around the 32:00 mark. The tow vehicle is a beast with huge 116kwh battery and the van light. The roads were mainly motorway and flat so a really easy drive. Estimated range with full battery not much over 200 kilometres. I wonder what the range would be in hilly country.
I have 2 motor vehicles, I in my FNQ home, a 2009 Hyundai Santa Fe (diesel), it has 140,000 on the clock...my Car in my Illawarra NSW home was my former work and then caravan vehicle, a 2007 Toyota Landcruiser (petrol), it has 185,000 on the clock.
Both vehicles are going as well as ever and in their present state and condition, will see me out to the end so no need to replace...if I did, the cost would be huge to do so. It is only my opinion, but I believe that most EV's would have had at best, major updates battery wise at this age...it is all debatable and subjective as the future is a forecast and yet to unfold....for me, I'll remain an EV dinosaur with no regrets!!!
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Sunday 5th of March 2023 09:30:24 PM
Do not understand the need for such negative outlooks. No one, but no one is forcing you, telling
you, making you sell your cars. What's your problem. I have a 200 series Landcruiser. This is the
only car we have. It has to be shared between us to get to various activities. Am I about to sell
this and buy an EV. An emphatic no as we cannot afford it. As you, our Landcruiser works
perfectly well in its present state and condition. Further more, we have enough solar on the
roof that would make charging an EV free. Free Ray. The prohibitive purchase cost of an EV
precludes us from buying one even though 'fuel' costs would be free. Registration and
insurance be about the same. Regular service would also be a thing of the past. Would I miss
having to purchase 10 litres of diesel oil, a filter and spend time under the car performing
an oil change every 10k km? No. There are many benefits for many to be had. Obviously
out of the immediate city boundaries it is different. No one is holding a gun to my head or
forcing me to sell my beloved Landcruiser for an EV. But the option is there. No need to
knock it. Yes a dinosaur in your view but perhaps a case of head in the sand.
Those electric cruise ships are starting to happen!
We went on an electric ferry in France in 2011, ok only a ferry but it worked perfectly ok & it mostly charged itself with solar panels.
Those two headed people in Tasmania are showing where there brain power is going!
https://incat.com.au/incat-poised-to-deliver-the-worlds-largest-zero-emissions-lightweight-ferry/
'Amongst vessels under construction at the shipyard is a 130 metre lightweight ferry, originally intended to be powered by LNG, that will carry 2100 passengers and 226 vehicles'
"Head in the sand"
....Nah, Who said anybody was forcing me too change
...just my choice and I am happy, what's wrong with that, are personal choice and options now dead, it seems so by the comments!!!
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Tuesday 7th of March 2023 04:44:36 AM
All the above has it's merits, but WHY do governments have to LEGISLATE change? If this EV push is a no-brainer then let the market decide when they will buy one, STOP telling us how to live!!
Been doing a bit of research, with all the scare mongering by climate alarmists I am scared stiff that my grandkids are going to be fried to a crisp if they so much as walk outside to get grandad's paper from the garden. Also concerned about the shutting down of reliable power and lining the pockets of elites who are heavily invested in renewables.
From what I have recently read, CO2 in the atmosphere is 3 to 4% of Trace Gasses. Trace Gasses make up 0.1% of the atmosphere. Human-created CO2 makes up 3% of CO2 going into the air
.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, does that mean all of this Climate Change is brought on by us making 3% of 3-4% of 0.1%?
-- Edited by vince56 on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:51:03 AM
We don't have children so couldn't give a stuff about the future!
Actually we do, worried about our nieces & nephews & great neices & nephews.
Not only climate change but how we have vastly shortened the long term effectiveness of antibiotics due to pointless overuse, including stuffing them into animals & fish farms by the thousands of tonnes.
Next generation, hip replacement & heart surgery may have gone out the window.
Electric cruise ships are a long way off and the same with commercial aircraft. Yes electric ferries are being built but they have their limitations and the same with aircraft.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=electric+aeroplanes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:437a2d85,vid:YdfYXlUK6is
Vince56 has posted a link on another thread that provides some basic statistics that I feel should be included in this thread.
Thank you Vince.
https://www.prageru.com/video/whats-wrong-with-wind-and-solar
Interestingly I once read an article that stated that will all the wind farms in the US they did not generate enough power to close one power station. I have no idea whether that is correct though.