I realise this varies from person to person, but how do you all cope with back issues?
The severity will vary, as will the way you manage it.
What makes the back pain worse and better?
I have several issues - disc degeneration which varies from disc to disc through most of my spine.
I have arthritis across the upper back and neck to the shoulders.
Sitting too long and/or in the wrong type of chair will intensify my discomfort.
Standing too long will do it too.
Walking, short distances are good, long distances not. The quality of footwear is important. Good foot and arch support are vital.
Swimming is good to maintain the strength and flexibility.
Pain killers do the rest.
I try not to let it affect me too much in my day to day activities, and I work within my capabilities. As long as I'm upright and breathing I'm in front.
Ma said
02:29 PM Jan 18, 2010
Ditto all of the above Christine with the exception of the area of the arthritis. Mine is across the hips and general pelvic area.
Really great when you go to get out of bed in the morning and your legs are numb from the hips to the knees. Almost like they aren't there and you end up flat on your back on the floor.
Osteo-Ease does help a fair bit as do pain killers and anti inflammatories.
JRH said
02:36 PM Jan 18, 2010
Ginger helps with the arthritis, osteoarthritis that is.
Cruising Granny said
03:02 PM Jan 18, 2010
I'm a ginger-holic. I eat it in my food, I drink it in the refresher cordial.
It won't heal, but it, like the fish oil and celery, relieves the extreme pain.
Glucosamine didn't help me, but I've met doesn't it has helped or relieved.
My feet and pelvic region are very painful when I get up in the morning.
It seems tolerance perserverance is the key to managing back probs.
ibbo said
04:02 PM Jan 18, 2010
Chris.When my backwas bad during my weight lifting days and still suffer somtimes.I had an old Chinese bloke who put me on to a rub called Wong To Yick.It was woodlock medicated balm made in Hong Kong but available in Sydney.Worked wonders for me.I have a fax number.....02 9416 9827.or phone.02 9416 9831.Addres 1,Clarke St.Guildford.NSW.2161.They may have a distributor up your way.Then the only other thing that gave me any relief was a drug called endone,I think that was the spelling,but at the time it was the strongest pain killer that could be prescribed.The only other way was to have a drip feed of Bundy.Cheers.Ibbo.Oh and no Nookie.lol(Smutty).
twobob said
11:26 PM Jan 18, 2010
The 'new kid on the block', for bone density and bone pain, is 'Maca Root Powder'. I have no knowledge of it, other than a read. Its available outside of Brisbane.
DYOR, and if its of interest, PM me or Mon, for the address.
Cruising Granny said
11:31 AM Jan 19, 2010
I was prescribed Endone after my surgery, and it worked a treat without any unpleasant side effects.
I'm taking 6-8 Pan Forte a day just to manage the pain. I can't tolerate anti-inflammatories anymore, and pain killing patches give me a rash. (Yes, I'm sure it was the patches).
I can't take any morphine derivitives because I get vague-outs where I don't lose consciousness and I know what's going on, but I can't participate. I've tried reading and writing while I'm having one of those episodes and it doesn't make sense.
"Nothing new about that", I hear you say.
Ma said
11:37 AM Jan 19, 2010
I was told by a VERY reliable source - professional - that Endone is a morhpine derivitive
ibbo said
01:14 PM Jan 19, 2010
Ma,your info is spot on.Chris Endone is a moprhine derivative.Please go to Google and explore Endone.You will find so much to help you with pain management.Consultant Duck and myself would encourage you to see your local GP about your rash.You have been to Mexico recently and I believe that Syndrochytititus is in epidemic proportions down there.Oh by the way,your cheque has been banked,just waiting for it to be cleared.Cheers.Ibbo.
ibbo said
01:24 PM Jan 19, 2010
Chris.Some of the symptoms that you have described are similar to the ones that affect Ecstasy pill takers.It is not the reading and writing that should concern you,but the none participating is a real worry.Stay away from the Flesh Pots of Carnal Cairns Night life.Consultant Duck and myself will be available for home visits as soon as we get our licences back..........A long and sorid story.Cheers.Ibbo.
Ma said
01:31 PM Jan 19, 2010
ibbo wrote:
Ma,your info is spot on.Chris Endone is a moprhine derivative.
I have had many years experience with morphine and its extended family of pills, potions and such. I nursed my late husband through his terminal illness and HAD to know what I was doing etc.
He couldn't take Endone as it sent him on a bad "trip". There are other things out there as I'm sure you are all aware of.
Cruising Granny said
04:45 PM Jan 19, 2010
Well there you go. No more Endone for this little white duck - no relation.
Maybe that does explain a couple of vague-outs in hospital and when I first came home.
I didn't get the nausea I usually get from morph or other related medication.
Damn drugs!
I've done quite a bit of research about pain management, but alternative medicines are very expensive and once again, only work on some people.
It's too much money to experiment and risk serious side effects.
Has anyone had successful pain management with alternative treatment?
goinsoon said
11:06 PM Jan 19, 2010
I have a close friend with severe back problems and he is on TREMEL as an alternative to morphene, have a yak to your doc
twobob said
10:14 AM Jan 20, 2010
Chris, I do not suffer from pain, but have used 'Devils Claw' (DC) for the cortisone. DC has more effective cortisone than the Western equivelent.
Here is a quote re DC
Back and neck pain
Although study results have been somewhat conflicting, evidence suggests that devil's claw may help relieve low back and neck pain. In a small study of 63 people with mild-to-moderate back, neck, or shoulder pain, 4 weeks of treatment with a standardized extract of devil's claw root provided moderate relief from muscle pain. In a larger study of 197 men and women with chronic low back pain, those who received daily doses of a commercialized devil's claw extract every day for a month reported experiencing less pain and needing fewer painkilling medications than those who received placebo.
Another study followed 73 patients. Thirty-eight patients took a standardized devil's claw supplement, while 35 taking the COX-2 inhibitor medicine rofecoxib, also known as Celebrex, for up to 54 weeks. Results inidicated that devil's claw was as effective in relieving pain as the rofecoxib.
Edit as I forgot the referenece : http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/devils-claw-000237.htm
-- Edited by twobob on Wednesday 20th of January 2010 09:16:27 AM
Gary and Kerry said
06:39 PM Jan 20, 2010
I don't have a serious back problem but do get the occassional twinge. My chiropractor (spelling) put me onto Zhitong GAO patches and for me, they work a treat. Available in asian grocery stores, or at least thats where I get them from in adelaide.
Cruising Granny said
08:15 PM Jan 20, 2010
goinsoon wrote:
I have a close friend with severe back problems and he is on TREMEL as an alternative to morphene, have a yak to your doc
Tramil is another morphine derivitive and I've had side effects using this drug as well.
Cruising Granny said
08:17 PM Jan 20, 2010
Celebrex is no longer useful to me. It's also an anti-inflammatory and my kidneys are intolerant of anti-inflam's.
What is devil's claw? It doesn't sound like a good thing.
xina said
08:59 PM Jan 20, 2010
It's a [South African I think] Herb Chris. Supposed to be very good.
Cheers,
xina.
ElBe said
10:44 AM Jan 25, 2010
Hi all, I have osteo arthritis resulting in bi lateral hip replacements, lower back and neck pain, before the hip replacements I was taking Tramal and was totally out of it , non compis. The surgeon recomended and oldie but goodie, anti inflamatory Indocid, suppository. doesn't go through the stomach so is more affective with less damage. It was a lifesaver. After the first hip op I used the self admin pump but once again non compis. the second op I chose to use just Indocid and valium. no pain no after op mussiness, stunned hospital staff. Worth looking into even if you are skweemish, the pain relief is well worth it
Cruising Granny said
05:21 PM Jan 25, 2010
Be careful with that wonder drug indocid. Even the rear access version can do damage.
I can no longer take any anti-inflammatories because of the damage.
No morph or its derivitives either. Just Pan Forte 3 or 4 times a day, and keep up the fluids and fruit.
Not only am I reliable, I'm regular.
ElBe said
08:54 PM Jan 25, 2010
Thats true Chris, all anti inflamatories get ya in the end, tee hee didn't mean that to be funny. At the moment I can get away with 1 every 3 days so I'm hoping that will slow down the damage. already got stomach damage from oral meds. Had arthritis in left hip since I was 19. some of them older drugs were really brutal
Cruising Granny said
11:15 PM Jan 26, 2010
All anti-flams do is reduce the immediate inflammation, but you already know that.
I'm down to ice or hot packs to soothe those touchy places.
I've tried pain patches but I'm allergic to the glue not the drug. Bugger!
Unfortunately those alternate herbal remedies are usually very expensive and sometimes hard to find.
"What price health?" You say.
Only what I can afford and learn to tolerate the rest.
And now with this heavy weather, my back pain is very high profile. Ouch!
justcruisin01 said
08:47 PM Jan 27, 2010
This boat is bigger than the Ark & we are all in it .The only thing that me on my feet while working was chiro treatment every mth & inbetween when ness ,
I have a lot of serious mussle problems as well , as far as a heat rub releif goes the best I found is Metsol .
My wife worked in aged care & its used alot there . I have to be very carefull of what I do & how I do it ,one mistake & i,m on the floor going nowhere .
I,ve since worked out the cause of it all , Strong in the armes & week in the head ,lol
Now trying to reverse it but a bit too late .
Rolly said
08:59 PM Jan 27, 2010
I must be the lucky one, relatively speaking. I have CFS/ME and fibromyalgia to accompany the arthritis and osteo arthritis but the good bit is that tramadol, especially the slow release variety, not only relieves the aches but also lessens the fatigue and lethargy. The warnings on the packaging about drowsiness and increasing the sedative effects of alcohol made me query my GP about this, but he was unable to give any explanation. Undesirable side effects from paracetamol and codeine are now avoided as I am able to reduce their use quite considerably. Even the morphine administered in hospital a little while ago for relief from the pain of renal stones gave no noticeable "highs" and no withdrawals afterwards.
Arsy-tarsy, as usual.
My mother always reckoned that I was all upside down the way my feet smelt and my nose ran
seonau said
11:22 PM Jan 27, 2010
I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis when i turned 21. Without medication i can not walk and when i have a bad flair up just lying down some times makes me cry out in pain. For 34 years now i have taken indocid, usually 6 x 25mg some times as many as 8. For me its a wonder drug, no side effects and no one can even tell i have any problems at all. On a few occasion like when I have a particularly bad flair up i stop the indocid and take steroids for a short time. I play sport, I can run, I can work, thanks to the indocid. I have only ever found one natural remedy that helps. Its got a great name thats easy to remember too.......ZHITONG GAO......Its a patch, its not nearly as good as the drug i take but does work. It comes from your friendly Chinese medicine man.
If you send me a postal address Chris i will post a pack to you.
Cruising Granny said
02:56 PM Jan 28, 2010
Thanks Pete, but I'm not game to muck around with my spine or the drugs which may, or may not relieve the pain and pressure.
Most of my problem is disc degeneration. When the disc has completely collapsed the vertebrae start grinding together, calcify and squeezing the nerve.
It only hurts a little bit, NOT! That's when I get "back-bum ache" down both legs to my feet.
I had surgery in 06 to clear the calcification, remove the remnant disc squeezed out, and a spacer inserted.
No back-bum ache anymore, until recently anyhow.
The back-bum ache has returned, but no where near as severe as before, yet.
I can't handle any morphine derivitives, especially if I'm driving long distances. I'm not game to try anything which hasn't been approved for my use, or which may cost my the arms and legs I'm trying to keep working.
I have a lot of "put up with", so I'll just have to put up with it, and manage it the best way I can.
Palebushman said
10:44 PM Jan 28, 2010
" but I'm not game to muck around with my spine or the drugs which may, or may not relieve the pain and pressure."
Well said Chris,
And please don't think this is a joke, but I had a dear friend of mine, who was in a similar situation such as yours, who invested in a couple of 'Bean-Bags' for relaxation, and when she was driving. Her 'Armchair' bean-bag was ernormous but provided her with good firm all round support while reading, writing and relaxing. The one for the car had to be purpose made to take into account seat to pedal reach and safety belt length.
But all in all, they both helped her reduce her suffering.
Catweazle said
10:46 PM Feb 27, 2010
Cruising Granny wrote:
I realise this varies from person to person, but how do you all cope with back issues? The severity will vary, as will the way you manage it. What makes the back pain worse and better?
I meant to respond to this when I first read it, and just now realised that I hadn't.
Many older folk have degenerative conditions which contribute to back and associated pain. Many folk think they have such conditions but actually don't.
But whether we do or not there's an approach to treatment which I think is neglected as we get into middle age and beyond. Deep tissue massage/manipulation. The correct name for the treatment is myotherapy. It's often called 'sports massage' or 'remedial massage'. When we experience pain in the back/neck/shoulders/hips it should really be our first port of call, rather than the doctor. More often than not the doctor simply prescribes pain medication and rest. More often than not the myotherapy fixes our pain (if it's not associated with a genuine underlying condition) or alleviates our pain (if it is associated with such).
(Oh! And the doctors don't refer you to the people who can fix you, because they're pharmaceutical company pimps!)
As our bodies age we can become even more prone than before to having ligaments popping outta place, muscles knotting up, and all sorts of soft tissue woes occurring. We get referred pain occurring as a result, and if there's a pinched nerve or several involved that pain can be excruciating.
My last effort was a year or so back. My lower back was screaming agony. I couldn't stand up straight. I had trouble walking. A couple or three sessions of being abused on the massage table (yeah it hurts a bit, but no pain no gain) and I wasn't just walking again - I was running!
I'd been to see the doctor. The doctor's remedy was to swallow some panadol and rest. The real problem was knotted up muscles in my buttocks and upper legs whoch had me contorted so bad I'd pulled one hip a bit awry in its socket!
Edit: When we do have genuine underlying conditions we often hold ourselves unnaturally against the pain experienced, by the way, and cause ourselves soft tissue damage in doing so.
-- Edited by Catweazle on Saturday 27th of February 2010 09:48:06 PM
Cruising Granny said
08:02 PM Feb 28, 2010
You're right about that. I'm in a funny position when I first put my feet on the floor in the morning and that first walk in the morning is very uncomfortable.
There's no shortage of massages in Cairns. A chinese massage couch on every corner, and they're cheap. I had one at the Night Markets and it really helped. Maybe I should go again.
I put things off until I can't handle it.
I do a lot of water exercises - hydrotherapy and a sort of aqua yoga to kep things stretched and flexible while I build up strength.
My back is its worst in the morning. It doesn't hurt at all when I'm sitting or lying still. When I get up to walk is something else, and turning over in bed is a bit of an ordeal. I sleep frowning, so I guess it hurts when I sleep.
That theory about GP's being agents of the drug companies may be right, but since the surgery I had before Christmas, I'm down 16 pills a day. The potassium and blood pressure medication supplier may go broke now. I expect to lose another half BP pill soon.
I'm down one adrenal gland, but I feel amazing. No bloating, clearer head (no comments please).
Thank God for medical science.
petengail said
04:15 PM Sep 1, 2010
I have spinal spondilitis. Trauma to the lower back from walking into a hatchway on a dark and stormy night in the navy. When my brother and sister in law were up here a few weeks ago, she had me sit in her seat in their Rodeo (same as ours) her seat has been raised about 2 inches at the back. This raises your bum up to about the level of your knees, and makes the seat more "bench like". I sat in that seat all day while we drove over sand tracks on the southern end of Fraser Island. I am so impressed that my mechanic is going to raise my seat next week. Just a thought, but may be good for those with lower back pain. cheers pete
Really great when you go to get out of bed in the morning and your legs are numb from the hips to the knees. Almost like they aren't there and you end up flat on your back on the floor.
Osteo-Ease does help a fair bit as do pain killers and anti inflammatories.
DYOR, and if its of interest, PM me or Mon, for the address.
He couldn't take Endone as it sent him on a bad "trip". There are other things out there as I'm sure you are all aware of.
Here is a quote re DC
Back and neck pain
Although study results have been somewhat conflicting, evidence suggests that devil's claw may help relieve low back and neck pain. In a small study of 63 people with mild-to-moderate back, neck, or shoulder pain, 4 weeks of treatment with a standardized extract of devil's claw root provided moderate relief from muscle pain. In a larger study of 197 men and women with chronic low back pain, those who received daily doses of a commercialized devil's claw extract every day for a month reported experiencing less pain and needing fewer painkilling medications than those who received placebo.
Another study followed 73 patients. Thirty-eight patients took a standardized devil's claw supplement, while 35 taking the COX-2 inhibitor medicine rofecoxib, also known as Celebrex, for up to 54 weeks. Results inidicated that devil's claw was as effective in relieving pain as the rofecoxib.
Edit as I forgot the referenece : http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/devils-claw-000237.htm
-- Edited by twobob on Wednesday 20th of January 2010 09:16:27 AM
Available in asian grocery stores, or at least thats where I get them from in adelaide.
Tramil is another morphine derivitive and I've had side effects using this drug as well.
I have a lot of serious mussle problems as well , as far as a heat rub releif goes the best I found is Metsol .
My wife worked in aged care & its used alot there . I have to be very carefull of what I do & how I do it ,one mistake & i,m on the floor going nowhere .
I,ve since worked out the cause of it all ,
Strong in the armes & week in the head ,lol
Now trying to reverse it but a bit too late .
I have CFS/ME and fibromyalgia to accompany the arthritis and osteo arthritis but the good bit is that tramadol, especially the slow release variety, not only relieves the aches but also lessens the fatigue and lethargy.
The warnings on the packaging about drowsiness and increasing the sedative effects of alcohol made me query my GP about this, but he was unable to give any explanation.
Undesirable side effects from paracetamol and codeine are now avoided as I am able to reduce their use quite considerably.
Even the morphine administered in hospital a little while ago for relief from the pain of renal stones gave no noticeable "highs" and no withdrawals afterwards.
Arsy-tarsy, as usual.
My mother always reckoned that I was all upside down the way my feet smelt and my nose ran
I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis when i turned 21. Without medication i can not walk and when i have a bad flair up just lying down some times makes me cry out in pain. For 34 years now i have taken indocid, usually 6 x 25mg some times as many as 8. For me its a wonder drug, no side effects and no one can even tell i have any problems at all. On a few occasion like when I have a particularly bad flair up i stop the indocid and take steroids for a short time. I play sport, I can run, I can work, thanks to the indocid.
I have only ever found one natural remedy that helps. Its got a great name thats easy to remember too.......ZHITONG GAO......Its a patch, its not nearly as good as the drug i take but does work. It comes from your friendly Chinese medicine man.
If you send me a postal address Chris i will post a pack to you.
Well said Chris,
And please don't think this is a joke, but I had a dear friend of mine, who was in a similar situation such as yours, who invested in a couple of 'Bean-Bags' for relaxation, and when she was driving.
Her 'Armchair' bean-bag was ernormous but provided her with good firm all round support while reading, writing and relaxing. The one for the car had to be purpose made to take into account seat to pedal reach and safety belt length.
But all in all, they both helped her reduce her suffering.
Many older folk have degenerative conditions which contribute to back and associated pain. Many folk think they have such conditions but actually don't.
But whether we do or not there's an approach to treatment which I think is neglected as we get into middle age and beyond. Deep tissue massage/manipulation. The correct name for the treatment is myotherapy. It's often called 'sports massage' or 'remedial massage'. When we experience pain in the back/neck/shoulders/hips it should really be our first port of call, rather than the doctor. More often than not the doctor simply prescribes pain medication and rest. More often than not the myotherapy fixes our pain (if it's not associated with a genuine underlying condition) or alleviates our pain (if it is associated with such).
(Oh! And the doctors don't refer you to the people who can fix you, because they're pharmaceutical company pimps!)
As our bodies age we can become even more prone than before to having ligaments popping outta place, muscles knotting up, and all sorts of soft tissue woes occurring. We get referred pain occurring as a result, and if there's a pinched nerve or several involved that pain can be excruciating.
My last effort was a year or so back. My lower back was screaming agony. I couldn't stand up straight. I had trouble walking. A couple or three sessions of being abused on the massage table (yeah it hurts a bit, but no pain no gain) and I wasn't just walking again - I was running!
I'd been to see the doctor. The doctor's remedy was to swallow some panadol and rest. The real problem was knotted up muscles in my buttocks and upper legs whoch had me contorted so bad I'd pulled one hip a bit awry in its socket!
Edit: When we do have genuine underlying conditions we often hold ourselves unnaturally against the pain experienced, by the way, and cause ourselves soft tissue damage in doing so.
-- Edited by Catweazle on Saturday 27th of February 2010 09:48:06 PM