My 2018 Y62 has a sticker inside the engine bay that says do not exceed 85kg (weight) on front the axle.
I have a roo bar and spotties on the roo bar which weights 75kg total.
Whilst I do not plan to add any more permanent weight to the roo bar (or front axle) I see that some people have front Hayman Reece type tow bar sleaves mounted underneath their front roo bars to facilitate easy short term backing of their caravans into parking spots.
I am assuming that this adds the caravan towball weight to the front axle when in use.
Does this matter for only a few minutes of very slow backing in terms of additional weight to the front axle?
Just curious.
Regards
David
yobarr said
06:44 PM Nov 28, 2019
Pradokakadudavid wrote:
Front axle weight y62.
My 2018 Y62 has a sticker inside the engine bay that says do not exceed 85kg (weight) on front the axle.
I have a roo bar and spotties on the roo bar which weights 75kg total.
Whilst I do not plan to add any more permanent weight to the roo bar (or front axle) I see that some people have front Hayman Reece type tow bar sleaves mounted underneath their front roo bars to facilitate easy short term backing of their caravans into parking spots.
I am assuming that this adds the caravan towball weight to the front axle when in use.
Does this matter for only a few minutes of very slow backing in terms of additional weight to the front axle?
Just curious.Regards.David
Hi David....In my humble opinion,its not even worth worrying about,but if you really want to reassure yourself,you might like to weigh your front axle without the van on,then add towball weight.Your front axle is rated at 1650kg...... Seriously though,it's a non-event! My neighbour has a Y62 and it has so much stuff hanging off the front that it's not funny!Just do it. Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 28th of November 2019 06:45:57 PM
Iva Biggen said
07:00 PM Nov 28, 2019
Hi David
While weight on the front axle may or may not be worth worrying about you are getting very close to maximum if your figures are correct. The simple addition of 10 kg could easily be exceeded with a big fella sitting in the passenger seat. It appears that exceeding the specified axle weight now is not an issue which is confusing.
The ability to reverse a van or trailer while pointing the way you want to go is a terrific advantage, but you may find that your Y62 and most if not all modern vehicles are impact sensitive to lateral loads applied at the front of the vehicle.
This lateral load in certain circumstances will activate your front airbag which, apart from the dangerous situation that may place you in, it will render your vehicle inoperable until it is towed to a repairer and the airbag replaced.
So in real terms respect the axle ratings of the manufacturer but I would be placing a lot more respect for the air bag mechanism.
Be very careful. Incorrect advice could cost you in the long term.
-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Thursday 28th of November 2019 07:02:48 PM
Baz421 said
09:17 PM Nov 28, 2019
I experimented with my 79 series a few years ago to manoevre in a tight spot inside our yard with 260kg ball weight. I anchored to winch mounts.
Was not very successful s excessively hard on steering as you need to have ball too far forward to allow any angle on turn, plus bull bar was feeling the strain.
Is it worth it?????
dabbler said
02:40 AM Nov 29, 2019
Just buy an eBay or Kogan electric jockey wheel. I power mine with a jump starter for now. It easily handles soft wet grass, rough gravel surfaces and tight manouvres. It cost under $200 about 6 months ago. No vehicle wt issues, no welding required.
Kebbin said
10:41 AM Nov 29, 2019
Not only could it set off the airbag but putting it on and taking it off every use will wear thin, even if by some miracle it is legal to leave in place.
outlaw40 said
01:10 PM Nov 29, 2019
Of course it would not be legal to leave it on as it would protrude beyond the bullbar . Also to add to that if the vehicle has airbags then any modification to the bullbar would render the bullbar noncompliant and therefore the vehicle unroadworthy. A defect notice is the potential outcome.
diggerop said
06:17 PM Nov 29, 2019
As I understand airbags need an impact to set them off, if a bit o excess weight set them off just driving through some of the dips on some of our Roads would set them off or hitting a decent bump.
yobarr said
08:04 PM Nov 29, 2019
diggerop wrote:
As I understand airbags need an impact to set them off, if a bit o excess weight set them off just driving through some of the dips on some of our Roads would set them off or hitting a decent bump.
None of my cars has airbags,and I have no interest in having them fitted,but something didn't sit right in this thread,so I did a bit of research. The RACQ website provided these details,which may be of interest?
For the driver or passenger airbags to deploy in a crash,all the following minimum criteria must be met.
1) The vehicle must be travelling at more than about 25km/hr.
2) The angle of impact is within around 30 degrees of either side of the car's centreline.(Around 60 degrees in total).
3) The decelaration forces produced are at least equal to those produced when the car collides head-on with an immovable barrier at approximately 25km/hr.
Note:- Front airbags will not be deployed in the event of a side or rear end collision,or in a rollover,as they would provide no additional protection.
However,I could find no reference to front towballs or lateral forces......
So David,it seems that you will be OK provided you do not try to reverse your van at more than 25km/hr? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 29th of November 2019 08:11:10 PM
Iva Biggen said
08:32 PM Nov 29, 2019
diggerop wrote:
As I understand airbags need an impact to set them off, if a bit o excess weight set them off just driving through some of the dips on some of our Roads would set them off or hitting a decent bump.
You are possibly correct that the airbag needs an impact but dips and bumps in a road would not normally set off the airbag unless the bull bar became non compliant by modification. The mounting of modern bull bars is extremely important to ensure that the safety aspect of the bar and the air bags is not compromised by any modification.
Modification is what the OP has suggested he may be doing to his bull bar on his Y62.
The impact you mention to set them off is correct but lateral loads particularly in the direction of, and toward the vehicles front is what also may set them off.
This lateral load may never cause a problem with a bull bar that is fitted with a tow hitch mounting while the vehicle is travelling along a road but when it is pushing a heavy van along an into a parking spot, then that may just be an entire different situation.
If someone decided to fit a hitch receiver onto the bull bar of a modern vehicle bull bar then immediately this bull bar would no longer comply. This has already been quoted by other members above.
The lateral load my be something as simple as the van wheels encountering a pot hole while pushing it or any restriction to their smooth travel which would then result in a lateral load being applied back to the sensors that incorporate the operation of the airbag. In the situation where the van is directly connected to the bull bar then any energy transferred back through the bull bar into the sensors will, or at least may, set off the air bags.
The effect of the actual weight on the steering effort is real and that has been quoted above with a member and his van on a late model Toyota ute.
Even something as simple as pushing the van uphill may trigger the deployment of the airbag due to the load placed against the sensors.
While it has been mentioned in a post above that this is not worth worrying about I dont think the contributor had or has any idea how the modern vehicle has to comply with Aus Design and Safety Standards.
To recommend anyone doing this on a modern vehicle such as a Y 62 Nissan or similar is irresponsible in the least as the unnecessary deployment of the air bags can be extremely expensive to rectify as well as impose a level of danger in some situations.
Road bumps generally wouldnt set off air bags but modifications are illegal and can be dangerous to any bull bar fitted to a vehicle with air bags.
Iva Biggen said
09:18 PM Nov 29, 2019
yobarr wrote:
diggerop wrote:
As I understand airbags need an impact to set them off, if a bit o excess weight set them off just driving through some of the dips on some of our Roads would set them off or hitting a decent bump.
None of my cars has airbags,and I have no interest in having them fitted,but something didn't sit right in this thread,so I did a bit of research. The RACQ website provided these details,which may be of interest?
For the driver or passenger airbags to deploy in a crash,all the following minimum criteria must be met.
1) The vehicle must be travelling at more than about 25km/hr.
2) The angle of impact is within around 30 degrees of either side of the car's centreline.(Around 60 degrees in total).
3) The decelaration forces produced are at least equal to those produced when the car collides head-on with an immovable barrier at approximately 25km/hr.
Note:- Front airbags will not be deployed in the event of a side or rear end collision,or in a rollover,as they would provide no additional protection.
However,I could find no reference to front towballs or lateral forces......
So David,it seems that you will be OK provided you do not try to reverse your van at more than 25km/hr? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 29th of November 2019 08:11:10 PM
Well here we go again, this will probably result in yet another topic being locked.
You, my friend are a very dangerous man when it comes to many of your comments and recommendations on this and at least on some other forums.
The OP clearly stated he had a Y62 which has air bags.
He clearly stated he wanted to fit a receiver to mount a hitch which would allow him to push a van in a forward direction thus applying a lateral load to the mounting and the sensors for the bull bar and the air bags.
Your words.
However I could find no reference to front tow balls or lateralforces.
Did you find any reference where a hitch or for that matter, any other modification the a bull bar on a compliant vehicle was permitted.
Police are currently defecting light bars and rod holders fitted to bull bars so why for one minute would you recommend anyone fitting a hitch receiver to their bull bar.
Can you possibly guarantee that while anyone pushing a van with a bull bar hitch as you have suggested will not become close to reproducing a situation which will or may replicate a front end crash at 25 kph. For example, what if the van hits something unseen or the wheels strike a rock or curb?
Can you possibly guarantee that while this same person pushing his van may or may not re create this 30 degree angle of which you have quoted.
You claim you drive semi trailers so therefore you should realise that a 30 degree angle when positioning any trailer may not be abnormal in many situations.
I dont think your comments are helpful. What you do or do not do is fine for you, but suggesting that all will be OK for the OP will be fine because you said so, is extremely dangerous.
The reason you found no reference to front tow balls is because on a vehicle with a bull bar that is compliant with air bags, they are non approved.
In your words from many of your other posts.
Spare me or at least Spare Us All.
diggerop said
10:33 PM Nov 29, 2019
Pradokakadudavid, a few links you can look at. First two look like the same product from different sites. Watling is an aussie site for an English mob selling/available in Australia. I'm sure none of them would be selling these products if the air bags were being set off.
My issue would be that any modification could in fact STOP or hinder the airbags from deploying . that is why in illegal to modify any airbag compliant accessory .suggesting anyone do such a mod to a vehicle with airbags is irresponsible .
Iva Biggen said
08:45 AM Nov 30, 2019
Quote from a reputable caravan repairer taken from another site.
I'm not seeing a problem with the general idea. So long as the permanent fittings are compliant, that is, do not protrude forward, and speed is kept sane (very low).
My problem is the cost (weight and gold) for the dubious benefit. I can see a case for say a caravan parks vehicle, and perhaps if you have a mad driveway where the van is usually stored, but otherwise it's a big no from me.
Pradokakadudavid said
01:19 PM Dec 8, 2019
Hmmmm all very interesting.
Thanks to everyone for your comments.
Regards
David
Pradokakadudavid said
01:22 PM Dec 8, 2019
Thanks!
Aus-Kiwi said
11:12 PM Dec 8, 2019
Um ? How strong is the bull
Bar ?
Baz421 said
11:19 PM Dec 8, 2019
Yeh, not designed for vertical load. Tested mine, not a good result.
Aus-Kiwi said
11:25 PM Dec 8, 2019
Um ? How strong is the bull
Bar ?
MapleHunter25 said
12:03 AM Dec 9, 2019
I've only seen versions mounted to the chassis rails like the Reese, or the below for a Ranger.
I would be extremely surprised if that modification was approved in Australia.
I had a quick read of instructions and in some instances holes in the chassis have to be drilled out on certain vehicles.
I could not find any listing for a Y62 Nissan.
Until an Aus supplier comes out with a legal solution and can provide an approved method with documentation for being ADR compliant, then I would be just backing it in or if necessary, buying a motorised jockey wheel.
Regards
Rob
blaze said
09:19 AM Dec 9, 2019
bentaxlebabe wrote:
Baz421 wrote:
Very light duty,,, weight in lbs not kg.
The above link is for a site in the U.S.A.
I would be extremely surprised if that modification was approved in Australia.
I had a quick read of instructions and in some instances holes in the chassis have to be drilled out on certain vehicles.
I could not find any listing for a Y62 Nissan.
Until an Aus supplier comes out with a legal solution and can provide an approved method with documentation for being ADR compliant, then I would be just backing it in or if necessary, buying a motorised jockey wheel.
Regards
Rob
I worked for a company in Perth that was a third party manufacturer who fitted the approval plates on completion of jobs and can assure you from memory, prados and 200 series had holes drilled in their chassis to fit bullbars and towbars. There was other models also but they were the worst to do
Front axle weight y62.
My 2018 Y62 has a sticker inside the engine bay that says do not exceed 85kg (weight) on front the axle.
I have a roo bar and spotties on the roo bar which weights 75kg total.
Whilst I do not plan to add any more permanent weight to the roo bar (or front axle) I see that some people have front Hayman Reece type tow bar sleaves mounted underneath their front roo bars to facilitate easy short term backing of their caravans into parking spots.
I am assuming that this adds the caravan towball weight to the front axle when in use.
Does this matter for only a few minutes of very slow backing in terms of additional weight to the front axle?
Just curious.
Regards
David
Hi David....In my humble opinion,its not even worth worrying about,but if you really want to reassure yourself,you might like to weigh your front axle without the van on,then add towball weight.Your front axle is rated at 1650kg...... Seriously though,it's a non-event! My neighbour has a Y62 and it has so much stuff hanging off the front that it's not funny!Just do it. Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 28th of November 2019 06:45:57 PM
Hi David
While weight on the front axle may or may not be worth worrying about you are getting very close to maximum if your figures are correct. The simple addition of 10 kg could easily be exceeded with a big fella sitting in the passenger seat.
It appears that exceeding the specified axle weight now is not an issue which is confusing.
The ability to reverse a van or trailer while pointing the way you want to go is a terrific advantage, but you may find that your Y62 and most if not all modern vehicles are impact sensitive to lateral loads applied at the front of the vehicle.
This lateral load in certain circumstances will activate your front airbag which, apart from the dangerous situation that may place you in, it will render your vehicle inoperable until it is towed to a repairer and the airbag replaced.
So in real terms respect the axle ratings of the manufacturer but I would be placing a lot more respect for the air bag mechanism.
Be very careful. Incorrect advice could cost you in the long term.
-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Thursday 28th of November 2019 07:02:48 PM
I experimented with my 79 series a few years ago to manoevre in a tight spot inside our yard with 260kg ball weight. I anchored to winch mounts.
Was not very successful s excessively hard on steering as you need to have ball too far forward to allow any angle on turn, plus bull bar was feeling the strain.
Is it worth it?????
None of my cars has airbags,and I have no interest in having them fitted,but something didn't sit right in this thread,so I did a bit of research. The RACQ website provided these details,which may be of interest?
For the driver or passenger airbags to deploy in a crash,all the following minimum criteria must be met.
1) The vehicle must be travelling at more than about 25km/hr.
2) The angle of impact is within around 30 degrees of either side of the car's centreline.(Around 60 degrees in total).
3) The decelaration forces produced are at least equal to those produced when the car collides head-on with an immovable barrier at approximately 25km/hr.
Note:- Front airbags will not be deployed in the event of a side or rear end collision,or in a rollover,as they would provide no additional protection.
However,I could find no reference to front towballs or lateral forces......
So David,it seems that you will be OK provided you do not try to reverse your van at more than 25km/hr? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 29th of November 2019 08:11:10 PM
You are possibly correct that the airbag needs an impact but dips and bumps in a road would not normally set off the airbag unless the bull bar became non compliant by modification. The mounting of modern bull bars is extremely important to ensure that the safety aspect of the bar and the air bags is not compromised by any modification.
Modification is what the OP has suggested he may be doing to his bull bar on his Y62.
The impact you mention to set them off is correct but lateral loads particularly in the direction of, and toward the vehicles front is what also may set them off.
This lateral load may never cause a problem with a bull bar that is fitted with a tow hitch mounting while the vehicle is travelling along a road but when it is pushing a heavy van along an into a parking spot, then that may just be an entire different situation.
If someone decided to fit a hitch receiver onto the bull bar of a modern vehicle bull bar then immediately this bull bar would no longer comply. This has already been quoted by other members above.
The lateral load my be something as simple as the van wheels encountering a pot hole while pushing it or any restriction to their smooth travel which would then result in a lateral load being applied back to the sensors that incorporate the operation of the airbag. In the situation where the van is directly connected to the bull bar then any energy transferred back through the bull bar into the sensors will, or at least may, set off the air bags.
The effect of the actual weight on the steering effort is real and that has been quoted above with a member and his van on a late model Toyota ute.
Even something as simple as pushing the van uphill may trigger the deployment of the airbag due to the load placed against the sensors.
While it has been mentioned in a post above that this is not worth worrying about I dont think the contributor had or has any idea how the modern vehicle has to comply with Aus Design and Safety Standards.
To recommend anyone doing this on a modern vehicle such as a Y 62 Nissan or similar is irresponsible in the least as the unnecessary deployment of the air bags can be extremely expensive to rectify as well as impose a level of danger in some situations.
Road bumps generally wouldnt set off air bags but modifications are illegal and can be dangerous to any bull bar fitted to a vehicle with air bags.
Well here we go again, this will probably result in yet another topic being locked.
You, my friend are a very dangerous man when it comes to many of your comments and recommendations on this and at least on some other forums.
The OP clearly stated he had a Y62 which has air bags.
He clearly stated he wanted to fit a receiver to mount a hitch which would allow him to push a van in a forward direction thus applying a lateral load to the mounting and the sensors for the bull bar and the air bags.
Your words.
However I could find no reference to front tow balls or lateral forces.
Did you find any reference where a hitch or for that matter, any other modification the a bull bar on a compliant vehicle was permitted.
Police are currently defecting light bars and rod holders fitted to bull bars so why for one minute would you recommend anyone fitting a hitch receiver to their bull bar.
Can you possibly guarantee that while anyone pushing a van with a bull bar hitch as you have suggested will not become close to reproducing a situation which will or may replicate a front end crash at 25 kph. For example, what if the van hits something unseen or the wheels strike a rock or curb?
Can you possibly guarantee that while this same person pushing his van may or may not re create this 30 degree angle of which you have quoted.
You claim you drive semi trailers so therefore you should realise that a 30 degree angle when positioning any trailer may not be abnormal in many situations.
I dont think your comments are helpful. What you do or do not do is fine for you, but suggesting that all will be OK for the OP will be fine because you said so, is extremely dangerous.
The reason you found no reference to front tow balls is because on a vehicle with a bull bar that is compliant with air bags, they are non approved.
In your words from many of your other posts.
Spare me or at least Spare Us All.
www.toughtoys.com.au/products/front-runner-4x4-heavy-duty-front-tow-hitch-tbar009/
www.frontrunneroutfitters.com/en/au/front-runner-universal-heavy-duty-front-tow-hitch.html
www.watling-towbars.com.au/front-towbars-caravan-mover.html
Quote from a reputable caravan repairer taken from another site.
From here.
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/driving-and-transport/vehicles/vehicle-standards-and-modifications/bull-bars
These are national regulations so all states compliance is the same.
So the OP has a choice.
To modify his bull bar at the recommendation of Yobarr
Or stay within the law and maintain his Y62 to comply with current regulations.
It is his choice.
Good luck with it all David.
My problem is the cost (weight and gold) for the dubious benefit. I can see a case for say a caravan parks vehicle, and perhaps if you have a mad driveway where the van is usually stored, but otherwise it's a big no from me.
Hmmmm all very interesting.
Thanks to everyone for your comments.
Regards
David
Thanks!
www.etrailer.com/Front-Hitch/Curt/C31063.html
The above link is for a site in the U.S.A.
I would be extremely surprised if that modification was approved in Australia.
I had a quick read of instructions and in some instances holes in the chassis have to be drilled out on certain vehicles.
I could not find any listing for a Y62 Nissan.
Until an Aus supplier comes out with a legal solution and can provide an approved method with documentation for being ADR compliant, then I would be just backing it in or if necessary, buying a motorised jockey wheel.
Regards
Rob
I worked for a company in Perth that was a third party manufacturer who fitted the approval plates on completion of jobs and can assure you from memory, prados and 200 series had holes drilled in their chassis to fit bullbars and towbars. There was other models also but they were the worst to do
cheers
blaze