Seems a few of these self contained camp sites are around now. Will soon be doing a few more trips, including free camping.
I'm just wondering if a modified jerry can (or similar container) would be acceptable for an over night stay. It would be easy to ensure a decent seal and an air bleed. Just what are the requirements, as a general rule.
I wont be fitting one to the van if I can help it.
MapleHunter25 said
12:34 PM Dec 7, 2019
From what I've seen the approach varies from 'please take it back out with you' to 'if you dump, expect hell to be unleashed'. The sites who are serious about it want you to have a properly plumbed tank. No idea what proportion are serious.
dabbler said
01:48 PM Dec 7, 2019
As already mentioned, it will still depend on the site and how trusting they are when it comes to human beings.
Relax-n said
02:54 PM Dec 7, 2019
We are members of CMCA and our set has been approved for their self contained policy
Have added a shut off tap to wateroutlet. Have 2 20lt plastic drums, (square style) fitted with breather and screw on fitting, to attach to short hose, attaching to water outlet.
2nd bottle is useful as can attach when 1st needs emptying, and no one can winge that there is no catch tank.
Portable grey water tanks are available to buy, if you dont want the hassle of putting bits together.
The bottles have also got screw on caps on the inlet. They get rinsed thoroughly and are stored under the bed when not in use.
Have found that 20lt is a good size, and can be easy to empty. (for me, I empty when only half full as lighter)
I think bought portable grey water tanks start at 50lt, but I could be wrong.
Most good van supply stores sell them, or can get them in
Possum3 said
03:57 PM Dec 7, 2019
I made a portable one that folds down to nothing and weighs about 1 kg; One only collapsible water container see lcpshop.net/product/collapsible-water-container-bag/ One only 1m Pool vacuum hose poolandspawarehouse.com.au/genuine-hose-blue-barracuda-pool-cleaner-part.html%253C%253C%2520Shopping&utm_term=1101300411273&utm_content=All%2520Products
Easier than a solid portable or plumbed tank. It has a handle to carry to dump point the pool hose section fits into the tap/bung and reinforced end fits over discharge spiggot Simple and effective.
Eaglemax said
07:08 PM Dec 7, 2019
Best idea Possum.
The Travelling Dillberries said
07:46 PM Dec 7, 2019
oldbloke wrote:
Seems a few of these self contained camp sites are around now. Will soon be doing a few more trips, including free camping.
I'm just wondering if a modified jerry can (or similar container) would be acceptable for an over night stay. It would be easy to ensure a decent seal and an air bleed. Just what are the requirements, as a general rule.
I wont be fitting one to the van if I can help it.
Olbloke we have travelled for 5 months this year from North Coast NSW to Melbourne, over to Tassie for 8 weeks then western to North NSW, Southern QLD, North Coast NSW and from our experience there aren't many places with that requirement, and the ones we have stayed at with that requirement ask for the grey water to be placed on the shrubs or garden. So i use a bucket, had no issues. In fact most places use common sense in asking for the grey water to be beneficially used. I have not seen many Dump Points that will accept Grey water either, just adds unwanted load to their Septic or Sewer Systems. Just a waste of water.
Cheers
Chris.
Cupie said
08:13 PM Dec 7, 2019
Eaglemax wrote:
Best idea Possum.
X2 ... I'll mod my 'CMCA Compliant' set up to use a couple of these containers.
ps we rarely 'free camp' so my set up is for 'just in case' so the smaller the better. I was almost going to say that IMHO it's all a crock of ... , but that would only start an argument. So I'll say WHAT A GREAT IDEA THIS GREY WATER CONTAINMENT IS. LOL
oldbloke said
11:02 PM Dec 7, 2019
I do like Possums idea. I just want to be prepared for the odd occassion i may need one.
Cupie said
11:21 PM Dec 7, 2019
oldbloke wrote:
I do like Possums idea. I just want to be prepared for the odd occassion i may need one.
To make it (almost) compliant, just put an in line tap in the sullage outlet pipe so that you can switch off the flow when you remove the container. It seems that that is a requirement. Only a few dollars at Bunnings & a few minutes to install.
Because of the crappy Jayco plumbing, I had to put one in each of my two outlets. I've only used mine twice in 2 years but it's nice to have.
Aus-Kiwi said
12:32 AM Dec 8, 2019
Plastic petrol tank from 90s Falcon Sedan work fine .
dieseltojo said
04:26 PM Dec 8, 2019
I have been to many sites that claim to be a fully self contained sites. In 8 years only a couple actually checked and I might have been one in 20 with a tank on board. Vans which either had the hose on the ground or a bucket every where.
The buckets are popular as they sit nice and full over flowing and they just kick them over when they go.
One day it will matter, but my experience is no one is around to enforce their own rules. You see many rules like that are actually in place to get approval from councils, like show grounds and out of the way pubs. If the owner doesn't worry about checking the campers certainly don't.
If you camp on a hard bitumen council area, expect problems. Other wise, zero will be said to you. I have had blokes want to argue with me for having the tank.....
The reason the real hard ground camps want the tanks is buckets and tanks overflow into storm water. I watch the neighbors go out at night and chuck it even under their vans.
The motto is give em an inch and they wanna be a ruler. I have given up on talking to campers about it unless I feel like a good fight.
Pariss said
09:35 AM Dec 9, 2019
We use a 20ltr square drum, available from most Hardware stores. In outback and regional areas, the ground is just so dry, that a little bit of shower or washing up water spilled onto the parched ground is welcomed. Camps next to creeks, rivers, Lakes etc, should always be captured. Most outback van parks encourage you to run you're water waste at the base of their trees.
Bello said
05:25 PM Dec 9, 2019
I have a 20lt plastic black fuel jerry can, with a fitting that goes to the drain from the van. The drum has a air valve other wise the shower doesn't drain.
When carrying full or empty it fits into a jerry can holder on the back of the van
.
Have had no complaints anywhere I have been.
Good luck.
oldbloke said
05:29 PM Dec 9, 2019
Bello, that sounds simple. Looking like thats all thats required in the most situations.
elliemike said
09:06 PM Dec 9, 2019
Bello wrote:
I have a 20lt plastic black fuel jerry can, with a fitting that goes to the drain from the van. The drum has a air valve other wise the shower doesn't drain. When carrying full or empty it fits into a jerry can holder on the back of the van . Have had no complaints anywhere I have been.
Good luck.
That's what I have used for a few years, although it is a Green Jerry Can with a tiny air vent hole drilled in the handle. 2 mm hole I think. We do not have a shower of course so it is only Sink Water.
Also clearly signed GREY WATER in white letters on both sides.
-- Edited by elliemike on Monday 9th of December 2019 09:08:27 PM
oldbloke said
09:28 PM Dec 9, 2019
Was in the garage today and remembered i have a comtainer similar to the one pictured. 20 ltrs. Will look into making use of that. A nice light weight solution.
How a council could come to that decision confounds me.
Sounds to a biased person like me that they are making it as difficult as they can for caravanners while giving an appearance of being RV friendly(ish).
Perhaps that's the best that the CMCA could negotiate. LOL
Just as well we have no need to free/bush camp & certainly never in that area. LOL x 2
BTW .. IMHO a built in grey water tank can overflow almost as easily as a 'compliant' tote tank.
oldbloke said
03:13 AM Dec 10, 2019
I cant read t h e fine print
Cupie said
10:05 AM Dec 10, 2019
oldbloke wrote:
I cant read t h e fine print
I just clicked on the attachment (not the insertion) and enlarged it ... "Control +" or "control & Mouse wheel" on my laptop .
The relevant sections are the rather confusing point 2 that seems to say -
"Sealed grey water tank to vehicle" Whatever that means
and the large red printing at the bottom
"No discharge of Grey Water, Black Water or Effluent permitted into any external receptacle at any time"
It's the last one that gets up my nose. It seems to suggest that tote tanks are not permitted, including I presume, the type suggested in this thread.
I suppose that you could argue that the pipe from the van's greywater outlet fixes the van to the tote tank making it part of the van & therefore not 'external' to it.
BYW, I saw that JayDee had made a cradle that sat under the rear of his van that he can slide his 'tote tank' into. This would conform I think.
Possum3 said
10:10 AM Dec 10, 2019
The fine print of the sign says; "Sealed Grey Water tank to vehicle", whereas "Permanent Back water tank fitted to vehicle". My collapsible tank for grey water would be compliant to their regulation (if in fact it is a Regulation), it only says to be compliant with our friendly obligations (not regulations).
Cupie said
10:27 AM Dec 10, 2019
Possum3 wrote:
The fine print of the sign says; "Sealed Grey Water tank to vehicle", whereas "Permanent Back water tank fitted to vehicle". My collapsible tank for grey water would be compliant to their regulation (if in fact it is a Regulation), it only says to be compliant with our friendly obligations (not regulations).
I have trouble interpreting the phrase "Sealed Grey Water tank to vehicle".
Do you understand this to mean that 'the grey water tank must be sealed to the vehicle'. Which in itself is a bit clumsy.
Whereas 'Permanent Black water tank fitted to vehicle' is quite clear.
If you are correct then presumably, properly attached Tote Tanks (including yours) are OK whereas open buckets under the outlet are not. That would be a sensible requirement.
Who knows? A call to the council may settle the issue.
Possum3 said
10:33 AM Dec 10, 2019
My interpretation is no overflow or leakage of grey water i.e. the tank attached to vehicle with no leakage.
Cupie said
10:48 AM Dec 10, 2019
Possum3 wrote:
My interpretation is no overflow or leakage of grey water i.e. the tank attached to vehicle with no leakage.
Yes, seems sensible
But
How does that fit with the bit in red at the foot of the sign that says
"No discharge of Grey Water, Black Water or effluent permitted into ANY EXTERNAL RECEPTACLE at any time"
I would have thought that a container sitting on the ground next to the van (even if attached by a sealed pipe) may be considered by some to be an EXTERNAL RECEPTACLE.
It's just yet another crap sign .. or perhaps it's me being pedantic/argumentative.
Tony Bev said
01:24 PM Dec 10, 2019
Not trying to be funny, about anyone not being able to read the fine print
I am interested in the Ravensthorpe RV stop, as I shall be passing that way in mid January, and just may use it for an overnight stop, this is what I think the sign means
Showers and toilet facilities to be contained in vehicle Probably means, no shower tents allowed
Sealed Grey Water tank to vehicle Probably means, grey water tank must be out of sight, with a sealed hose/pipe to container. (On a shelf/rack under the van, (not on the ground) would be out of sight) This rule is probably to stop people opening their grey water tank valve, just after they have packed up, and are leaving the site
Permanent Black Water tank fixed to vehicle Probably means, a permanent built in toilet. (Using a shower tent type portaloo toilet, inside the RV, would be out of sight, and out of mind, if the Ranger walked passed)
Sufficient battery and/or solar generation capacity to preclude use of generator (or minimal use of generator) Probably means, if they find you running a genset all day, (to watch TV, or to keep your 3 way fridge going on 240 volt), they could/will ask you to leave
Rubbish to be taken from site or disposed in bins supplied Probably means, if they see you dropping rubbish, they could/will ask you to leave
No Tent or Annex, permitted in 48 hour stay area Probably means, if you put up a tent, (for your grand kids), or run out your awning (for shade), they could/will ask you to leave
The bit in red, at the bottom of the sign is self explanatory, but probably means that No moveable bucket/container, which is not a fixed part of the RV, is allowable to catch your grey water This rule would probably assist those, who for whatever reason, always seem to accidentally kick their bucket over, just as they bend down to put the full bucket inside their vehicle
oldbloke said
03:00 PM Dec 10, 2019
Seemes to me the rules or regulations are not black & white but pretty grey. (Pun intended). Also apears often not policed and not a lot around.
Im at my van today and looks like i have a workable system using the collapsable bucket. Just need a short length of hose to make it neater & more effective. I wont bother with the tap on the outlet, the shorter hose will minimise the spillage. Besides my outlet is a bit of an odd size.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Tuesday 10th of December 2019 03:02:37 PM
Possum3 said
03:26 PM Dec 10, 2019
oldbloke wrote:
Just need a short length of hose to make it neater & more effective. I wont bother with the tap on the outlet, the shorter hose will minimise the spillage. Besides my outlet is a bit of an odd size.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Tuesday 10th of December 2019 03:02:37 PM
One section Barracuda pool cleaner hose ideal size. Plastic tube (joiner) from Bunnings adjusts to outlet spigot size - need to keep tap as the only way to seal whilst taking to suitable dump point.
Relax-n said
03:47 PM Dec 10, 2019
Most Councils / Shires get their standards from the CMCA requirements, so one would have to think that if CMCA approved for self contained, then there might not be too much of an issue
We have been to lots of spots that state totally self contained, and it is amazing how many still put buckets out. Restriction in these sorts of parks will get harsher if people dont comply with regulations, then it will be worse for all
Cupie said
04:01 PM Dec 10, 2019
For those who place great store in CMCA 'Policy/Code of Conduct' or whatever, you may be interested in this bit from their code WRT Grey water & Tote tanks in particular ..
No grey water is to be discharged from a self-contained vehicle unless allowable by local authorities or access to a dump point is impractical.
Sinks, and where fitted hand basins and showers, shall be drained to either an on-board (fitted) grey water tank or an external (non-fitted) grey water tank (tote)
A tote shall be connected to the vehicle by a drainage pipe with a water tight seal and have a working shut off valve to avoid overflow.
(Don't know where you get one of these ... perhaps that info is in their DIY paper .. Cupie)
A tote may be used for discharging and transporting of grey water from any vehicle to a disposal point, providing the vehicle discharge point has a permanently installed shut off valve and the drainage pipe to the tote is connected by a water tight seal.
(I put a tap in both the pipe to the tote & in the van discharge pipes just to be sure .. I think that they mean the latter .. Cupie )
When travelling, a portable grey water tote shall be securely fastened within the confines of the vehicle so as not to cause any hazard.
Liquid waste is not to be collected or removed in open buckets or containers.
Seems a few of these self contained camp sites are around now. Will soon be doing a few more trips, including free camping.
I'm just wondering if a modified jerry can (or similar container) would be acceptable for an over night stay. It would be easy to ensure a decent seal and an air bleed. Just what are the requirements, as a general rule.
I wont be fitting one to the van if I can help it.
From what I've seen the approach varies from 'please take it back out with you' to 'if you dump, expect hell to be unleashed'. The sites who are serious about it want you to have a properly plumbed tank. No idea what proportion are serious.
We are members of CMCA and our set has been approved for their self contained policy
Have added a shut off tap to wateroutlet. Have 2 20lt plastic drums, (square style) fitted with breather and screw on fitting, to attach to short hose, attaching to water outlet.
2nd bottle is useful as can attach when 1st needs emptying, and no one can winge that there is no catch tank.
Portable grey water tanks are available to buy, if you dont want the hassle of putting bits together.
The bottles have also got screw on caps on the inlet. They get rinsed thoroughly and are stored under the bed when not in use.
Have found that 20lt is a good size, and can be easy to empty. (for me, I empty when only half full as lighter)
I think bought portable grey water tanks start at 50lt, but I could be wrong.
Most good van supply stores sell them, or can get them in
Easier than a solid portable or plumbed tank. It has a handle to carry to dump point the pool hose section fits into the tap/bung and reinforced end fits over discharge spiggot Simple and effective.
Olbloke we have travelled for 5 months this year from North Coast NSW to Melbourne, over to Tassie for 8 weeks then western to North NSW, Southern QLD, North Coast NSW and from our experience there aren't many places with that requirement, and the ones we have stayed at with that requirement ask for the grey water to be placed on the shrubs or garden. So i use a bucket, had no issues. In fact most places use common sense in asking for the grey water to be beneficially used. I have not seen many Dump Points that will accept Grey water either, just adds unwanted load to their Septic or Sewer Systems. Just a waste of water.
Cheers
Chris.
X2 ... I'll mod my 'CMCA Compliant' set up to use a couple of these containers.
ps we rarely 'free camp' so my set up is for 'just in case' so the smaller the better. I was almost going to say that IMHO it's all a crock of ... , but that would only start an argument. So I'll say WHAT A GREAT IDEA THIS GREY WATER CONTAINMENT IS. LOL
To make it (almost) compliant, just put an in line tap in the sullage outlet pipe so that you can switch off the flow when you remove the container. It seems that that is a requirement. Only a few dollars at Bunnings & a few minutes to install.
Because of the crappy Jayco plumbing, I had to put one in each of my two outlets. I've only used mine twice in 2 years but it's nice to have.
I have been to many sites that claim to be a fully self contained sites. In 8 years only a couple actually checked and I might have been one in 20 with a tank on board. Vans which either had the hose on the ground or a bucket every where.
The buckets are popular as they sit nice and full over flowing and they just kick them over when they go.
One day it will matter, but my experience is no one is around to enforce their own rules. You see many rules like that are actually in place to get approval from councils, like show grounds and out of the way pubs. If the owner doesn't worry about checking the campers certainly don't.
If you camp on a hard bitumen council area, expect problems. Other wise, zero will be said to you. I have had blokes want to argue with me for having the tank.....
The reason the real hard ground camps want the tanks is buckets and tanks overflow into storm water. I watch the neighbors go out at night and chuck it even under their vans.
The motto is give em an inch and they wanna be a ruler. I have given up on talking to campers about it unless I feel like a good fight.
When carrying full or empty it fits into a jerry can holder on the back of the van
.
Have had no complaints anywhere I have been.
Good luck.
That's what I have used for a few years, although it is a Green Jerry Can with a tiny air vent hole drilled in the handle. 2 mm hole I think. We do not have a shower of course so it is only Sink Water.
Also clearly signed GREY WATER in white letters on both sides.
-- Edited by elliemike on Monday 9th of December 2019 09:08:27 PM
Was in the garage today and remembered i have a comtainer similar to the one pictured. 20 ltrs. Will look into making use of that. A nice light weight solution.
Well there you go.
Where there's one there's probably more.
How a council could come to that decision confounds me.
Sounds to a biased person like me that they are making it as difficult as they can for caravanners while giving an appearance of being RV friendly(ish).
Perhaps that's the best that the CMCA could negotiate. LOL
Just as well we have no need to free/bush camp & certainly never in that area. LOL x 2
BTW .. IMHO a built in grey water tank can overflow almost as easily as a 'compliant' tote tank.
I just clicked on the attachment (not the insertion) and enlarged it ... "Control +" or "control & Mouse wheel" on my laptop .
The relevant sections are the rather confusing point 2 that seems to say -
"Sealed grey water tank to vehicle" Whatever that means
and the large red printing at the bottom
"No discharge of Grey Water, Black Water or Effluent permitted into any external receptacle at any time"
It's the last one that gets up my nose. It seems to suggest that tote tanks are not permitted, including I presume, the type suggested in this thread.
I suppose that you could argue that the pipe from the van's greywater outlet fixes the van to the tote tank making it part of the van & therefore not 'external' to it.
BYW, I saw that JayDee had made a cradle that sat under the rear of his van that he can slide his 'tote tank' into. This would conform I think.
I have trouble interpreting the phrase "Sealed Grey Water tank to vehicle".
Do you understand this to mean that 'the grey water tank must be sealed to the vehicle'. Which in itself is a bit clumsy.
Whereas 'Permanent Black water tank fitted to vehicle' is quite clear.
If you are correct then presumably, properly attached Tote Tanks (including yours) are OK whereas open buckets under the outlet are not. That would be a sensible requirement.
Who knows? A call to the council may settle the issue.
Yes, seems sensible
But
How does that fit with the bit in red at the foot of the sign that says
"No discharge of Grey Water, Black Water or effluent permitted into ANY EXTERNAL RECEPTACLE at any time"
I would have thought that a container sitting on the ground next to the van (even if attached by a sealed pipe) may be considered by some to be an EXTERNAL RECEPTACLE.
It's just yet another crap sign .. or perhaps it's me being pedantic/argumentative.
Not trying to be funny, about anyone not being able to read the fine print
I am interested in the Ravensthorpe RV stop, as I shall be passing that way in mid January, and just may use it for an overnight stop, this is what I think the sign means
Probably means, no shower tents allowed
Probably means, grey water tank must be out of sight, with a sealed hose/pipe to container. (On a shelf/rack under the van, (not on the ground) would be out of sight)
This rule is probably to stop people opening their grey water tank valve, just after they have packed up, and are leaving the site
Probably means, a permanent built in toilet. (Using a shower tent type portaloo toilet, inside the RV, would be out of sight, and out of mind, if the Ranger walked passed)
Probably means, if they find you running a genset all day, (to watch TV, or to keep your 3 way fridge going on 240 volt), they could/will ask you to leave
Probably means, if they see you dropping rubbish, they could/will ask you to leave
Probably means, if you put up a tent, (for your grand kids), or run out your awning (for shade), they could/will ask you to leave
The bit in red, at the bottom of the sign is self explanatory, but probably means that
No moveable bucket/container, which is not a fixed part of the RV, is allowable to catch your grey water
This rule would probably assist those, who for whatever reason, always seem to accidentally kick their bucket over, just as they bend down to put the full bucket inside their vehicle
Seemes to me the rules or regulations are not black & white but pretty grey. (Pun intended). Also apears often not policed and not a lot around.
Im at my van today and looks like i have a workable system using the collapsable bucket. Just need a short length of hose to make it neater & more effective. I wont bother with the tap on the outlet, the shorter hose will minimise the spillage. Besides my outlet is a bit of an odd size.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Tuesday 10th of December 2019 03:02:37 PM
One section Barracuda pool cleaner hose ideal size. Plastic tube (joiner) from Bunnings adjusts to outlet spigot size - need to keep tap as the only way to seal whilst taking to suitable dump point.
Most Councils / Shires get their standards from the CMCA requirements, so one would have to think that if CMCA approved for self contained, then there might not be too much of an issue
We have been to lots of spots that state totally self contained, and it is amazing how many still put buckets out. Restriction in these sorts of parks will get harsher if people dont comply with regulations, then it will be worse for all
For those who place great store in CMCA 'Policy/Code of Conduct' or whatever, you may be interested in this bit from their code WRT Grey water & Tote tanks in particular ..
No grey water is to be discharged from a self-contained vehicle unless allowable by local authorities or access to a dump point is impractical.
Sinks, and where fitted hand basins and showers, shall be drained to either an on-board (fitted) grey water tank or an external (non-fitted) grey water tank (tote)
A tote shall be connected to the vehicle by a drainage pipe with a water tight seal and have a working shut off valve to avoid overflow.
(Don't know where you get one of these ... perhaps that info is in their DIY paper .. Cupie)
A tote may be used for discharging and transporting of grey water from any vehicle to a disposal point, providing the vehicle discharge point has a permanently installed shut off valve and the drainage pipe to the tote is connected by a water tight seal.
(I put a tap in both the pipe to the tote & in the van discharge pipes just to be sure .. I think that they mean the latter .. Cupie )
When travelling, a portable grey water tote shall be securely fastened within the confines of the vehicle so as not to cause any hazard.
Liquid waste is not to be collected or removed in open buckets or containers.