I know this has been discussed many many times but seeing as I'm a real dumbo when it comes to legal towing weights I need some professional advice pls. So i have booked a weigh bridge time after Christmas.
Attached Van compliance plate [New Age Bigred 17ft] & Pajero 2012 weight list. Go easy with me please LOL
yobarr said
09:10 AM Dec 13, 2019
Hi David...PM sent.Cheers
Iva Biggen said
10:01 AM Dec 13, 2019
yobarr wrote:
Hi David...PM sent.Cheers
Why??
Dougwe said
10:05 AM Dec 13, 2019
Hi Dave,
Mate, to cut an extremely long story very short, keep under that ATM listed on the plate and your van should be OK.
Me, that's what I do and keep my tow ball weight under its max allowed for the tow bar on the Collie.
For example, I have a 2720kg plated ATM and actual is 2660kg. My Tow Bar says 3000kg max van and 300kg tow ball weight and actual is 250kg tow ball weight.
DOUG
yobarr said
10:07 AM Dec 13, 2019
miroku12g wrote:
Hi all,
I know this has been discussed many many times but seeing as I'm a real dumbo when it comes to legal towing weights I need some professional advice pls. So i have booked a weigh bridge time after Christmas.
Attached Van compliance plate [New Age Bigred 17ft] & Pajero 2012 weight list. Go easy with me please LOL
Depending on how you want to travel,and where you plan to stay,I think that you will have big problems staying under your 2500kg ATM,which is total weight of van,including towball weight and weight on van wheels. Your tare is allegedly 2100kg,leaving only 400kg for everything,including water,gas bottles,food,clothes,bedding,tools etc.Your Pajero has maximum towball weight of 250kg up to 2500kg ATM,but a 250kg towball weight puts around 350kg onto your car's rear axle,which is rated at only 1780kg.The other 100kg comes off your front axle,which now would weigh 1230kg,assuming that you had indeed managed to load it to its maximum capacity of 1330kg prior to connecting the van.Some will say to fit a WDH,but this will not solve the problem, for two reasons.The first is that,at 3010kg (1230kg front and 1780kg rear axle) you are within 20kg of your car's 3030kg GVM figure,so you have only 20kg to 'play with'.The second is that a WDH puts even more weight onto your van's wheels,which is likely to put you over your 2500kg ATM. You cannot realistically increase your ATM,even though there is 470kg spare (2750kg axle capacity minus 2280kg GTM) because to do so would put you over your Pajero's 2500kg ATM towing limit for a 250kg towball weight.Once your van's ATM is over 2500kg your car's maximum towball weight drops to an unsafe 180kg.If,for example,your ATM was 3000kg,your towball weight would be 6%.....stupidity in the extreme. Happy to help if you reply to my PM.Cheers
Rob Driver said
10:21 AM Dec 13, 2019
Hi Yobarr,
I note that each time you answer one of these weight questions you seem to be able to quote the axle ratings of any vehicle that is mentioned to be assessed.
Would you mind sharing with us all where you get this information so readily when, at least when I search manufacturers specifications, very few actually state these axle weight specifications?
Thanks
Regards
Rob
yobarr said
10:47 AM Dec 13, 2019
bentaxlebabe wrote:
Hi Yobarr, I note that each time you answer one of these weight questions you seem to be able to quote the axle ratings of any vehicle that is mentioned to be assessed. Would you mind sharing with us all where you get this information so readily when, at least when I search manufacturers specifications, very few actually state these axle weight specifications? Thanks Regards Rob
If you read Daves (Mazs?) post,you will note that the figures you seek are within. Cheers
-- Edited by Webmaster on Friday 13th of December 2019 11:30:26 AM
KevinJ said
10:51 AM Dec 13, 2019
I'd be keen to know if the attached spreadsheet helps in any way.
Hi Yobarr, I note that each time you answer one of these weight questions you seem to be able to quote the axle ratings of any vehicle that is mentioned to be assessed. Would you mind sharing with us all where you get this information so readily when, at least when I search manufacturers specifications, very few actually state these axle weight specifications? Thanks Regards Rob
If you care to read Daves (Mazs?) post,you will note that the figures you seek are within. Cheers
As well as Rob and probably others I certainly have noted that you regularly quote maximum axle weights on any vehicle that is mentioned on here even when posters dont quote these figures.
-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Friday 13th of December 2019 11:03:01 AM
-- Edited by Webmaster on Friday 13th of December 2019 11:31:20 AM
montie said
11:46 AM Dec 13, 2019
miroku12g wrote:
Hi all,
I know this has been discussed many many times but seeing as I'm a real dumbo when it comes to legal towing weights I need some professional advice pls. So i have booked a weigh bridge time after Christmas.
Attached Van compliance plate [New Age Bigred 17ft] & Pajero 2012 weight list. Go easy with me please LOL
Dave on the face of it you have a tow capacity of 3000kg and a van ATM of 2500kg so that's ok.
Your towball weight cannot exceed 250kg which is 10% of ATM so that's ok.
Van ATM 2500kg minus Tare 2100kg gives you 400kg payload which you will need to manage.
Your combination measured weight cannot exceed 5280kg (ATM + GVM - Ball weight) which is well below the tug rating of 6030kg so thats ok.
Load your van for travel and check all of the above at the weighbridge plus your axle weights before setting off.
Happy travels.
Greg 1 said
01:50 AM Dec 14, 2019
With reference to using a weight distribution hitch, Mitsubishi recommends the use of one for towing a heavy trailer with the Pajero. I think you will find that recommendation in the owners handbook.
Having owned a Pajero, I would certainly take heed of that recommendation.
yobarr said
07:26 AM Dec 14, 2019
Greg 1 wrote:
With reference to using a weight distribution hitch, Mitsubishi recommends the use of one for towing a heavy trailer with the Pajero. I think you will find that recommendation in the owners handbook. Having owned a Pajero, I would certainly take heed of that recommendation.
Good point Greg,but in this case the van's limited carrying capacity means that a WDH would easily cause the ATM to be exceeded. Unless Dave is able to carefully "manage" (Monty's words!) his payload,he certainly will have overloading issues towing this van with a Pajero.Cheers
Iva Biggen said
01:31 PM Dec 14, 2019
yobarr wrote:
Greg 1 wrote:
With reference to using a weight distribution hitch, Mitsubishi recommends the use of one for towing a heavy trailer with the Pajero. I think you will find that recommendation in the owners handbook. Having owned a Pajero, I would certainly take heed of that recommendation.
Good point Greg,but in this case the van's limited carrying capacity means that a WDH would easily cause the ATM to be exceeded. Unless Dave is able to carefully "manage" (Monty's words!) his payload,he certainly will have overloading issues towing this van with a Pajero.Cheers
In the real world 400kg of payload in a van was, until recent times quite the norm.
My first van fell into this category and to quote Monties terminology it was manageable.
To suggest that the owner of a vehicle should ignore the manufacturers recommendations is, once again, extremely irresponsible to say the least.
To just automatically assume that anyone who asks a question on weights when towing will be overloaded, is at the least, very unhelpful.
Cheers
Ivan
boab said
08:23 PM Dec 14, 2019
I hope your not questioning the policeman's opinion there Ivan you will get a please explain if your not careful
Greg 1 said
02:15 AM Dec 15, 2019
Unless you are using the WDH incorrectly, I quite frankly fail to see how the correct use of one will put the van over it's ATM.
yobarr said
05:53 AM Dec 15, 2019
Greg 1 wrote:
Unless you are using the WDH incorrectly, I quite frankly fail to see how the correct use of one will put the van over it's ATM.
Using the fully loaded 2500kg ATM subject vehicle as an example,assuming 10% towball weight,(250kg)we obviously would have 2250kg GTM.(Weight on van wheels). A WDH takes weight off the car's rear axle and transfers a percentage of that weight back to the front axle of the car,with the rest of the transferred weight being applied to the van's axle group.Towball weight is not changed by the WDH,but the GTM has increased,so immediately the van is over its legal ATM.Hope this helps? Cheers
Iva Biggen said
08:52 AM Dec 15, 2019
boab wrote:
I hope your not questioning the policeman's opinion there Ivan you will get a please explain if your not careful
Iva Biggen said
09:08 AM Dec 15, 2019
Greg 1 wrote:
Unless you are using the WDH incorrectly, I quite frankly fail to see how the correct use of one will put the van over it's ATM.
Hi Greg 1,
You are correct.
There is someone who has to make something simple into something complicated on a repetitive basis.
A vehicles ATM has nothing whatsoever to do with the use of a WDH.
From a google search hilighting the first comment on the subject of ATM from the RACQ.
This is no secret that the ATM of a vehicle is measured when it is NOT COUPLED to a tow vehicle.
It has been said before that the OPs weight needs to be measured and managed and the recommendations of any vehicle manufacturer needs to be adhered to.
Anyone who decides to operate outside these parameters or takes advice from someone who suggests they do so is leaving themselves in a potentially dangerous situation.
I do not wish to further confuse you,but to help prevent others from being confused by this rubbish,I will attempt to explain.ATM is made up of the weight on the trailer's axle group,plus the downforce applied by the towbar.Whether that downforce is applied to a car's towball,a jockey wheel,or a pile of bricks,it still is part of the ATM.For example,if we have a 2500kg trailer loaded to capacity,the total of GTM (weight on wheels) plus towbar downforce always will be 2500kg.If the towbar downforce is zero,the GTM will be 2500kg.If the towball downforce is 350kg,the GTM will be 2150kg . Any weight transferred to that trailer by a WDH will put you over your ATM,making you overloaded,illegal and uninsured. You have an amazing ability to find all sorts of legislation to support your many arguements,but unfortunately you seem to be unable to correctly interpret this information? I have to visit a friend now,to help him with his trailer weights,so I cannot elaborate at this stage,but hopefully this will help you understand a little more?Cheer
Iva Biggen said
10:15 AM Dec 15, 2019
yobarr wrote:
I do not wish to further confuse you,but to help prevent others from being confused by this rubbish,I will attempt to explain.ATM is made up of the weight on the trailer's axle group,plus the downforce applied by the towbar.Whether that downforce is applied to a car's towball,a jockey wheel,or a pile of bricks,it still is part of the ATM.For example,if we have a 2500kg trailer loaded to capacity,the total of GTM (weight on wheels) plus towbar downforce always will be 2500kg.If the towbar downforce is zero,the GTM will be 2500kg.If the towball downforce is 350kg,the GTM will be 2150kg . Any weight transferred to that trailer by a WDH will put you over your ATM,making you overloaded,illegal and uninsured. You have an amazing ability to find all sorts of legislation to support your many arguements,but unfortunately you seem to be unable to correctly interpret this information? I have to visit a friend now,to help him with his trailer weights,so I cannot elaborate at this stage,but hopefully this will help you understand a little more?Cheer
Really, what part of NOT COUPLED TO A VEHICLE dont you understand. See the pic of the RACQ text below.
If the van is not coupled to the vehicle then what on earth does the use of a WDH have to do with ATM.
Your recommendations to many on here are at the least very dangerous.
Mate, to cut an extremely long story very short, keep under that ATM listed on the plate and your van should be OK.
Me, that's what I do and keep my tow ball weight under its max allowed for the tow bar on the Collie.
For example, I have a 2720kg plated ATM and actual is 2660kg. My Tow Bar says 3000kg max van and 300kg tow ball weight and actual is 250kg tow ball weight.
DOUG
Hi Doug,
as you say it can be so simple.
As Montie said in his post, just manage the weight with sensible loading.
The OP has his specifications, he is now aware that the manufacturer recommends the use of a WDH and he is planning a visit to a weighbridge.
I cannot see that we have to hear repeatedly that a members choice of vehicle and caravan will be illegal, dangerous and impossible to load correctly based on one members misguided beliefs.
Could you pass the popcorn please mate.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 15th of December 2019 12:58:28 PM
Dougwe said
01:15 PM Dec 15, 2019
I thought I'd get enough for others while at it.
Iva Biggen said
01:40 PM Dec 15, 2019
With reference to the original post it concerns me is that there just maybe another member on here with a similar vehicle and van who has gone through this exercise and may be able to offer sound and accurate advice but will not participate due to the ridicule that will be dealt out if stating anything that this expert does not agree with.
Even when another owner indicates that what he is advising is wrong he still persists in forcing these incorrect views on us all.
What a shame for the forum and its members.
Cheers
Ivan
Rob Driver said
01:45 PM Dec 15, 2019
Gday Ivan
You most certainly speak the truth mate and I do think that many on here have seen through him and his nonsense.
So come on Doug, tear the top off that big bag and we all might get into it.
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 15th of December 2019 01:48:10 PM
yobarr said
02:18 PM Dec 15, 2019
For the benefit of those who do not,can not,or simply will not understand even the basics of weights,I will again attempt to explain? It should be obvious to anyone with even a minimal understanding of weights that ATM is indeed "......the combined weight of the trailer and its full load when it is not coupled to a tow vehicle." This has never been in dispute,surely? AGAIN I will say that ATM is made up of GTM (weight on trailer wheels) plus towball weight.However,when the trailer is connected to a car,the towball weight becomes part of the car's payload.The ATM does not change,and neither does the GTM,but the weight on the car's rear axle increases,while the load on the front axle is reduced. The trailer still weighs exactly what it would weigh if the towbar was on a jockey wheel or a pile of bricks.NOW we introduce the universal cure-all WDH. Those of us who have any understanding of the workings of a WDH will know that,when tensioned,it will transfer some weight from the cars rear axle to the car's front axle,BUT it also will transfer weight to the van's axle group.Remember,we were right on our ATM before we tensioned the WDH,so that the transferred weight immediately puts the trailer over its ATM.I cannot explain it any more clearly than that,and I suggest that you take the time to study the facts I present,rather than arguing what is indesputable,and thus confusing others who may simply be trying to learn.Weights are not negotiable...... they are either right or they are wrong.There is nothing in between.Cheers
PS Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out to me where I have I have suggested that "..the owner of a vehicle should ignore the manufacturer's recommendations",as I cannot recall ever doing that.All my posts are designed to help people to get their weights right,so that . their vehicles are legal,safe and covered by their insurance. PPS You quote Montie's as saying that a 400kg load was "manageable" but you seem to again have misread the post,as that is incorrect. What Montie actually wrote was "....you will need to manage" the 400kg."Need to manage" and "manageable" have two entirely different meanings.
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 15th of December 2019 03:56:55 PM
yobarr said
02:25 PM Dec 15, 2019
Iva Biggen wrote:
With reference to the original post it concerns me is that there just maybe another member on here with a similar vehicle and van who has gone through this exercise and may be able to offer sound and accurate advice but will not participate due to the ridicule that will be dealt out if stating anything that this expert does not agree with.
Even when another owner indicates that what he is advising is wrong he still persists in forcing these incorrect views on us all.
What a shame for the forum and its members.
Cheers
Ivan
It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing,but simply a matter of presenting the facts. Several times I have asked you to highlight any of my "incorrect views",but so far nothing has been supplied? Where is "similar vehicle and van"? A Colorado is so far ahead of a Pajero that it would be lonely.I believe that the Colorado can go to 350kg towball weight,while the Pajero is stuck on 180kg.The Colorado has a higher GVM too. Chalk and cheese,unless you tow a DOG trailer.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 15th of December 2019 05:24:22 PM
Greg 1 said
04:07 PM Dec 15, 2019
The van's ATM cannot change unless weight is added or subtracted from the van.
The ATM is the total weight of the van and it's load independent of the tow vehicle. By hitching it to the tow vehicle, and fitting a WDH does not change that weight. It still remains the same.
By the fact that you have attached the van to the tug, some of that ATM weight is now carried by the tug, ie the ball weight, but the vans ATM is still the same.
All the WDH does is distributes some of that ball weight to the front axle of the tug away from the rear axle.
By a WDH's very design, very little weight is redistributed rearward to the van as the leverage is forwards not backwards. But again, the van or the tugs weights have not changed. Just being supported slightly differently by the tugs axles.
So other than the physical weight of the WDH setup, which should be weighed as part of your load, weights do not change. Only axle loading to a slight degree.
If you over do the load on the WDH by cranking it up too far, then you can run into a number of issues.
It is not designed to level out your rig and have the bars bent like a banana. Or as I saw a LC200 towing a van last week, jacking the back of the car up so much the wheels are at risk of losing traction.
Doing so places enormous loads on the towbar and it's mounting, not to mention the effect on the tow vehicles handling.
A properly set up WDH will place some load back on the front wheels to assist in steering stability without being cranked up so much as to risk the above.
yobarr said
04:59 PM Dec 15, 2019
Greg 1 wrote:
The van's ATM cannot change unless weight is added or subtracted from the van. The ATM is the total weight of the van and it's load independent of the tow vehicle. By hitching it to the tow vehicle, and fitting a WDH does not change that weight. It still remains the same. By the fact that you have attached the van to the tug, some of that ATM weight is now carried by the tug, ie the ball weight, but the vans ATM is still the same. All the WDH does is distributes some of that ball weight to the front axle of the tug away from the rear axle. By a WDH's very design, very little weight is redistributed rearward to the van as the leverage is forwards not backwards. But again, the van or the tugs weights have not changed. Just being supported slightly differently by the tugs axles. So other than the physical weight of the WDH setup, which should be weighed as part of your load, weights do not change. Only axle loading to a slight degree. If you over do the load on the WDH by cranking it up too far, then you can run into a number of issues. It is not designed to level out your rig and have the bars bent like a banana. Or as I saw a LC200 towing a van last week, jacking the back of the car up so much the wheels are at risk of losing traction. Doing so places enormous loads on the towbar and it's mounting, not to mention the effect on the tow vehicles handling. A properly set up WDH will place some load back on the front wheels to assist in steering stability without being cranked up so much as to risk the above.
That is incorrect....a WDH puts weight onto the van's axle group,as well as the front wheels of the car.Adding weight to the van's axle group increases the van's ATM.Not negotiable.....if you conduct your own experiments at a weighbridge,it soon will become clear to you that this is what happens.I do have the formula for calculating this weight transfer,but to submit it would no doubt cause all kinds of grief,as it did when I tried to show how to calculate the extra weight added to a car's rear axle when any set weight is put on the towball.Simple physics.Using your example with the LC200 ,if the WDH was wound up so high that the car's rear axle actually was off the ground,using your theory, all of the car's weight would be carried by the front axle of the car? Impossible.....a lot of it will be carried by the van's axle group.You then would have all weight on only two axle groups...the front axle of the car,and the van's axle group.No increase in ATM,you say? Not possible. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 15th of December 2019 05:35:35 PM
Hi all,
I know this has been discussed many many times but seeing as I'm a real dumbo when it comes to legal towing weights I need some professional advice pls. So i have booked a weigh bridge time after Christmas.
Attached Van compliance plate [New Age Bigred 17ft] & Pajero 2012 weight list. Go easy with me please LOL
Hi David...PM sent.Cheers
Why??
Mate, to cut an extremely long story very short, keep under that ATM listed on the plate and your van should be OK.
Me, that's what I do and keep my tow ball weight under its max allowed for the tow bar on the Collie.
For example, I have a 2720kg plated ATM and actual is 2660kg. My Tow Bar says 3000kg max van and 300kg tow ball weight and actual is 250kg tow ball weight.
DOUG
Depending on how you want to travel,and where you plan to stay,I think that you will have big problems staying under your 2500kg ATM,which is total weight of van,including towball weight and weight on van wheels. Your tare is allegedly 2100kg,leaving only 400kg for everything,including water,gas bottles,food,clothes,bedding,tools etc.Your Pajero has maximum towball weight of 250kg up to 2500kg ATM,but a 250kg towball weight puts around 350kg onto your car's rear axle,which is rated at only 1780kg.The other 100kg comes off your front axle,which now would weigh 1230kg,assuming that you had indeed managed to load it to its maximum capacity of 1330kg prior to connecting the van.Some will say to fit a WDH,but this will not solve the problem, for two reasons.The first is that,at 3010kg (1230kg front and 1780kg rear axle) you are within 20kg of your car's 3030kg GVM figure,so you have only 20kg to 'play with'.The second is that a WDH puts even more weight onto your van's wheels,which is likely to put you over your 2500kg ATM. You cannot realistically increase your ATM,even though there is 470kg spare (2750kg axle capacity minus 2280kg GTM) because to do so would put you over your Pajero's 2500kg ATM towing limit for a 250kg towball weight.Once your van's ATM is over 2500kg your car's maximum towball weight drops to an unsafe 180kg.If,for example,your ATM was 3000kg,your towball weight would be 6%.....stupidity in the extreme. Happy to help if you reply to my PM.Cheers
I note that each time you answer one of these weight questions you seem to be able to quote the axle ratings of any vehicle that is mentioned to be assessed.
Would you mind sharing with us all where you get this information so readily when, at least when I search manufacturers specifications, very few actually state these axle weight specifications?
Thanks
Regards
Rob
If you read Daves (Mazs?) post,you will note that the figures you seek are within. Cheers
-- Edited by Webmaster on Friday 13th of December 2019 11:30:26 AM
I'd be keen to know if the attached spreadsheet helps in any way.
As well as Rob and probably others I certainly have noted that you regularly quote maximum axle weights on any vehicle that is mentioned on here even when posters dont quote these figures.
-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Friday 13th of December 2019 11:03:01 AM
-- Edited by Webmaster on Friday 13th of December 2019 11:31:20 AM
Dave on the face of it you have a tow capacity of 3000kg and a van ATM of 2500kg so that's ok.
Your towball weight cannot exceed 250kg which is 10% of ATM so that's ok.
Van ATM 2500kg minus Tare 2100kg gives you 400kg payload which you will need to manage.
Your combination measured weight cannot exceed 5280kg (ATM + GVM - Ball weight) which is well below the tug rating of 6030kg so thats ok.
Load your van for travel and check all of the above at the weighbridge plus your axle weights before setting off.
Happy travels.
Good point Greg,but in this case the van's limited carrying capacity means that a WDH would easily cause the ATM to be exceeded. Unless Dave is able to carefully "manage" (Monty's words!) his payload,he certainly will have overloading issues towing this van with a Pajero.Cheers
In the real world 400kg of payload in a van was, until recent times quite the norm.
My first van fell into this category and to quote Monties terminology it was manageable.
To suggest that the owner of a vehicle should ignore the manufacturers recommendations is, once again, extremely irresponsible to say the least.
To just automatically assume that anyone who asks a question on weights when towing will be overloaded, is at the least, very unhelpful.
Cheers
Ivan
Using the fully loaded 2500kg ATM subject vehicle as an example,assuming 10% towball weight,(250kg)we obviously would have 2250kg GTM.(Weight on van wheels). A WDH takes weight off the car's rear axle and transfers a percentage of that weight back to the front axle of the car,with the rest of the transferred weight being applied to the van's axle group.Towball weight is not changed by the WDH,but the GTM has increased,so immediately the van is over its legal ATM.Hope this helps? Cheers
Hi Greg 1,
You are correct.
There is someone who has to make something simple into something complicated on a repetitive basis.
A vehicles ATM has nothing whatsoever to do with the use of a WDH.
From a google search hilighting the first comment on the subject of ATM from the RACQ.
This is no secret that the ATM of a vehicle is measured when it is NOT COUPLED to a tow vehicle.
It has been said before that the OPs weight needs to be measured and managed and the recommendations of any vehicle manufacturer needs to be adhered to.
Anyone who decides to operate outside these parameters or takes advice from someone who suggests they do so is leaving themselves in a potentially dangerous situation.
Cheers
Ivan
I do not wish to further confuse you,but to help prevent others from being confused by this rubbish,I will attempt to explain.ATM is made up of the weight on the trailer's axle group,plus the downforce applied by the towbar.Whether that downforce is applied to a car's towball,a jockey wheel,or a pile of bricks,it still is part of the ATM.For example,if we have a 2500kg trailer loaded to capacity,the total of GTM (weight on wheels) plus towbar downforce always will be 2500kg.If the towbar downforce is zero,the GTM will be 2500kg.If the towball downforce is 350kg,the GTM will be 2150kg . Any weight transferred to that trailer by a WDH will put you over your ATM,making you overloaded,illegal and uninsured. You have an amazing ability to find all sorts of legislation to support your many arguements,but unfortunately you seem to be unable to correctly interpret this information? I have to visit a friend now,to help him with his trailer weights,so I cannot elaborate at this stage,but hopefully this will help you understand a little more?Cheer
Really, what part of NOT COUPLED TO A VEHICLE dont you understand. See the pic of the RACQ text below.
If the van is not coupled to the vehicle then what on earth does the use of a WDH have to do with ATM.
Your recommendations to many on here are at the least very dangerous.
Hi Doug,
as you say it can be so simple.
As Montie said in his post, just manage the weight with sensible loading.
The OP has his specifications, he is now aware that the manufacturer recommends the use of a WDH and he is planning a visit to a weighbridge.
I cannot see that we have to hear repeatedly that a members choice of vehicle and caravan will be illegal, dangerous and impossible to load correctly based on one members misguided beliefs.
Could you pass the popcorn please mate.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 15th of December 2019 12:58:28 PM
I thought I'd get enough for others while at it.
Even when another owner indicates that what he is advising is wrong he still persists in forcing these incorrect views on us all.
What a shame for the forum and its members.
Cheers
Ivan
Gday Ivan
You most certainly speak the truth mate and I do think that many on here have seen through him and his nonsense.
So come on Doug, tear the top off that big bag and we all might get into it.
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 15th of December 2019 01:48:10 PM
For the benefit of those who do not,can not,or simply will not understand even the basics of weights,I will again attempt to explain? It should be obvious to anyone with even a minimal understanding of weights that ATM is indeed "......the combined weight of the trailer and its full load when it is not coupled to a tow vehicle." This has never been in dispute,surely? AGAIN I will say that ATM is made up of GTM (weight on trailer wheels) plus towball weight.However,when the trailer is connected to a car,the towball weight becomes part of the car's payload.The ATM does not change,and neither does the GTM,but the weight on the car's rear axle increases,while the load on the front axle is reduced. The trailer still weighs exactly what it would weigh if the towbar was on a jockey wheel or a pile of bricks.NOW we introduce the universal cure-all WDH. Those of us who have any understanding of the workings of a WDH will know that,when tensioned,it will transfer some weight from the cars rear axle to the car's front axle,BUT it also will transfer weight to the van's axle group.Remember,we were right on our ATM before we tensioned the WDH,so that the transferred weight immediately puts the trailer over its ATM.I cannot explain it any more clearly than that,and I suggest that you take the time to study the facts I present,rather than arguing what is indesputable,and thus confusing others who may simply be trying to learn.Weights are not negotiable...... they are either right or they are wrong.There is nothing in between.Cheers
PS Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out to me where I have I have suggested that "..the owner of a vehicle should ignore the manufacturer's recommendations",as I cannot recall ever doing that.All my posts are designed to help people to get their weights right,so that . their vehicles are legal,safe and covered by their insurance. PPS You quote Montie's as saying that a 400kg load was "manageable" but you seem to again have misread the post,as that is incorrect. What Montie actually wrote was "....you will need to manage" the 400kg."Need to manage" and "manageable" have two entirely different meanings.
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 15th of December 2019 03:56:55 PM
It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing,but simply a matter of presenting the facts. Several times I have asked you to highlight any of my "incorrect views",but so far nothing has been supplied? Where is "similar vehicle and van"? A Colorado is so far ahead of a Pajero that it would be lonely.I believe that the Colorado can go to 350kg towball weight,while the Pajero is stuck on 180kg.The Colorado has a higher GVM too. Chalk and cheese,unless you tow a DOG trailer.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 15th of December 2019 05:24:22 PM
That is incorrect....a WDH puts weight onto the van's axle group,as well as the front wheels of the car.Adding weight to the van's axle group increases the van's ATM.Not negotiable.....if you conduct your own experiments at a weighbridge,it soon will become clear to you that this is what happens.I do have the formula for calculating this weight transfer,but to submit it would no doubt cause all kinds of grief,as it did when I tried to show how to calculate the extra weight added to a car's rear axle when any set weight is put on the towball.Simple physics.Using your example with the LC200 ,if the WDH was wound up so high that the car's rear axle actually was off the ground,using your theory, all of the car's weight would be carried by the front axle of the car? Impossible.....a lot of it will be carried by the van's axle group.You then would have all weight on only two axle groups...the front axle of the car,and the van's axle group.No increase in ATM,you say? Not possible. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 15th of December 2019 05:35:35 PM