Man is embarking on an unknown era. We are entering the electric car phenomenon...or are we?

Most of us recall the oil scare in the 1970's. V8's were discontinued only to be built again in the 1990's. Turbo's came in around the 1980's to be more economical . People rushed to get their Kingswood on LPG dual fuel. Such hysteria can explain the current era of why some people are sceptical on climate change for example.

The internal combustion engine might yet survive albeit in many forms, electrical assistance, hydrogen, air power, so when was the greatest era of this engine design?

A few examples of where I'm coming from-

It could be successfully argued that when engines received electronic sensors in partnership with a computer and EFI, engine management became more precise. Air/fuel ratio produced better power and economy and largely they were more reliable and lasted longer.

Picture- the V6 Holden Commodore engine in my JBA Falcon Tourer. This was made in 1989 onwards until recently. It had all those features- sensors for exhaust oxygen, temperature, fuel, idle control and so on together with a basic computer. Around that period engines began to receive a single serpentine belt which in this case takes less than 2 minutes to replace.

Then there is our other car- the Hyundai i30 turbo diesel. That car has travelled 380,000km in 10years. Two major repairs- front shock absorders and a replacement turbo the latter costing around $3500. Over that period the savings far outweighed the $2500 cost to order a diesel and the $3500 turbo replacement. Furthermore when we toured our "lap" in 2016 towing our 11ft caravan 750kg ATM diesel fuel cost was under $2200 for 18,500kms- simply amazing. The turbo went at 300,000kms. That is my only concern with modern engines post 2000, the repair costs when something really goes wrong.

How many of you are prepared fora major engine catastrophe ? Twin turbo 4WD utilities - what cost when something breaks? Is twin turboes better than a single turbo with more CC's?.How will the engine perform at 500,000kms. Or am I over reacting? Will turboes last?

I suggest the golden era was previous, back in the 1990's when there was less hanging off the engine, less turbo's and greater simplicity that allowed you to work on your machine.

I also suggest that the petrol engine for towing is under rated now. Yes, the diesel turbo is a great towcar but in many cases towing only accounts for less than 5% of the time the vehicle is driven. City owners might well be wiser to opt for the petrol versions. I'd be interested in your thoughts either way.

Electric cars? where will they fit in with towing? Will elctric motors help push along the petrol car to achieve better economy or do you have hope electric cars will solely powered by electricity will tow our rigs?

First car: Peugeot 504 2.0L 56kW petrol about 250,000km 25 years old. Odometer broke.

Second car. Seat Ibiza 1.4L 44kW petrol about 250,000km 18 years old. Also odometer broke.

They both have various repairs but amortised over the life of the cars one can't complain.

Current car. Land Rover Freelander 2.0L 177kW petrol 55,000 km 5 years old & no issues.

Next vehicle quad motor all wheel drive electric wheelchair!. We have the garage already setup with 3 phase!

If I need anther car in the meantime I'll just go & buy another one with cash as previously.

My Freelander has the Ford 2.0L turbo Ecoboost engine together with a proper auto it's brilliant. I don't tow but once had 730kg in the car & I really didn't notice much difference in performance. It does use more fuel than a diesel but I don't have the diesel issues.

My mechanic said don't buy a diesel when looking for our current car.

Whenarewethere wrote:

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First car: Peugeot 504 2.0L 56kW petrol about 250,000km 25 years old. Odometer broke.

Second car. Seat Ibiza 1.4L 44kW petrol about 250,000km 18 years old. Also odometer broke.

They both have various repairs but amortised over the life of the cars one can't complain.

Current car. Land Rover Freelander 2.0L 177kW petrol 55,000 km 5 years old & no issues.

Next vehicle quad motor all wheel drive electric wheelchair!. We have the garage already setup with 3 phase!

If I need anther car in the meantime I'll just go & buy another one with cash as previously.

 

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 I owned a 504TI injection, great car.   

Tony

erad wrote:

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Sadly, I think that the electric car will come and very soon. This will make the infernal combustion engines very uncouth and their drivers will be definitely on the outer in society. This is fine for the big cities, where most people drive their cars instead of using public transport (but that is a reflection of the poor standard of public transport rather than the efficiency of private cars). I foresee the coming of the times when the 'dirty' fossil fueled cars will be banned form the cities (it is already happening in London) and then we in the country will be stranded because fossil fuels will become dearer and rarer. At my age, I probably only have 10 or 15 years left to drive anyway, but I do see problems ahead for petrol and diesel vehicles generally. Transport fuels will become scarcer (and dearer). Just look at what has happened to LPG. It i harder to find LPG bowsers now to refuel cars - they will totally disappear within a few years time. Gee I sound a happy person don't I???

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 Good point there Erad, but I'm a little cautious of electric vehicles overtaking our roads. Perhaos they will come and go in a couple of decades due to other fuels like Hydrogen, alcohol or compressed air. Then the electric car, that isnt currently that environment friendly (lithium etc) might be the dinosaurs

Tony

Eaglemax wrote:

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Lithium is used in modern model airplane batteries. Years ago flying my Spitfire, the controller began to smoke. Everyone in our club yelled out to land- nope, it was just like in the war, like the real thing. Then the batteries clearly caught fire and into the ground it went. Never happened to a internal combustion engine model. The Prius was fashionable, but at $10,000+ to replace the batteries? There was a report last week about compressed air engines being invented. Like dam water being taxed gives will find a was to tax oxygen Tony

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 At ABC News there is an article explaining that state governments are already considering how to tax electric vehicles to replace fuel tax which is a federal tax, governments never miss an opportunity to raise taxes and EV will not save owners a lot on fuel, and noting that battery replacement will also be an operating cost.

Toyota are leaders in Hybrid Technology, petrol engine generator charging small battery pack with range of about 25-30 kms and generator recharging as required. Toyota also have Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology in vehicles now on roads overseas.

Hybrid is in my opinion best for Australian conditions, EV best suited to suburban use.

I was just wondering, and suppose, that maybe in 1819,  they were having a similar debate,  conversations, and public discussion.  About whether Steamships being able to travel all over the world.  To places where there was no Coal. How would they get back, Just wait till the boiler blows up. They're always breaking down.  They will still have to have masts and yards, !  just in case!!.     

Be interesting to live long enough to see what the future technology does to the Automobile Power Unit.

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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Imo a good strong turbo diesel and electric hybrid to make it AWD . The elect turns to generator. Some here dont like them
! Charge on decel. Help when economy cruising or hills depending on battery condition . Great for traction also . A.2.2 turbo diesel
Could tow a modest load . Twin turbo is more used on V engine to make manifolding fabrication easier . Also helps a little on turbo threshold/ spool . A good single does the same job to a point . The cost of replacing a turbo at 200,000k or so is just maintenance like tyres . Half the cost is labour also . Servicing as in oil changes, fuel filters is number one reason most fail . Radiator & heater hoses, oil leaks often kill engines . Due to overheating or running out of oil !

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 What about the supercharger AK?  Works from idle no lag. Runs off the crank pulley.

Tony

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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Blowers , (mainly positive displacement) Only issue with blowers is they suck
Power to run them . My vehicles are either turbo charged or supercharged. Turbos can spools lower-sh rpm. Its more a time thing . Why its often called turbo threshold . Rpm can make turbo spool faster . Most cars are auto . The load a good converter puts on engine spools turbo soon enough !! I like forced induction of any kind .

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 Like this? Subaru Brumby engine and I added a SC12 Toyota supercharger with Dellorto carbie, built the manifolds myself.. Sold it now. Sorry guys off topic.

Hi 

The golden age of petrol engines is here now. When they started fitting EFI and sensors and UNLEADED FUEL they were problematical for some time in the "80-90s as manufacturers tried to make cheap vehicles which just scraped through the new regs. But then they got serious like the V6 Holdens and most others and they just got better and better. The pollution went down, the fuel economy went up and reliability goet better generally. I have been amazed how the electronics work so well in cars. Sure not perfect but not bad either. 

So we have these new wonders like mine, small SUV, with a 1200 turbo DSG that goes well city and highway, drives easily, can do 5 l/100k HW and needs very little servicing. Will run on the cheapest fuel too. Fast enough to get booked anywhere ! Seats 5 OK and has a reasonable boot space for ports etc. Can shift a dishwasher or small fridge. That is progress from any of the cars I have owned previously. AND i am happy that in our usual city use the pollution is low and it uses half the fuel of our previous diesel. I expect it will do 300000+ Ks before it needs any serious work. And is cheap to service if you do not go near a dealer.

But the diesels you guys all run seem to be 10-15+ years behind the petrols. Still playing with the technology, people make up silly fixes to common problems that should not be there, the ECUs do not control problems properly when they occur. Limp home mode is the stupid default, which does not suit out of town. Just put a BIG flashing light in front of the driver but keep going OK would be better. Even a sensible message like 'slow down' or 'transmission overheating' would be helpful. Most times it is not immediately critical. The pollution from diesels, as already known, is bad for health but they have taken over in the city here. Not in European cities where they are getting banned. So I suggest they are a better vehicle than previously but far from the perfect engine for the future. No reason a petrol engine cannot tow just as well as a diesel but the perception has been skewed by advertising and BS. Sure the fuel use will be a bit greater but them's the breaks. 

I doubt that electric vehicles will take up quickly as they are just too expensive and have limitations. They may suit me if they were half the price. The battery replacement cost is a furphy for most average buyers. A hybrid is OK but a silly transition choice now in my opinion. A plug in hybrid is the way to go now. Do the daily runs using battery power, charged from the home solar and only use the engine at the weekend for a long drive or even towing that trailer. No limit to the driving distance. That will be the thinking persons way forward IMHO.  Starting to be available now. 

Hydrogen is just a 'pipe dream' just now. Too many problems and BS clouds proper discussion. Maybee some time !! Perhaps if we had some leaders who took a long term view and made a plan that had some technical merit, for proper discussion, we could get somewhere. But being lead by the shock jocks and sceptics and discussion in the popular press we will only go the cheap and easy wrong way.

Jaahn     

Not All Diesels have issues . VW had the answer but cost them $ 120mill lol

Great article and comments.

However, the best vehicle that I have ever driven was a Company Car.

I had the choice of a Ford Fairmont Chia or the Holden Commodore Calais. Over time I had the free use of both models.

In all my time with the company I never had to spend a $$$. Petrol paid for when we traveled on annual leave.

Every Monday the vehicle was washed and vacuumed and the company garage advise when a service was due.

Every 100,000 klms or 3 years it was time for a new vehicle.

Boy, do I miss my Company Car.

But !!!!!    I do love my Land Cruiser.

Jay&Dee

I reckon that the best period for ICE's is always right now. Compared to the engines of the 60's and 70's todays engines are streets ahead. I remember back then an engine that lasted 100k miles (~160k km's) was the pinnacle of longevity. 30mpg was outstanding economy for even a small car. By todays standards reliability and effiency was rubbish.

Fast forward today. 160k km's ? Barely run in. Hell, my 2000 Td5 D2 has done about 420k km's and is still getting around 9.5 l/100 (~30mpg) and it's a hulking great 4wd and not a Hillman Minx or an EH Holden sedan - my fathers EH got about 20 or so mpg. 

If you look at todays cars the effiency we now take for granted was not even dreamed of 50 or 60 years ago. Modern service intervals are sometimes longer than expected life of a 60's or 70's car. Who knows what sort of effiency and lifespan we'll be seeing in another 50 years ? I won't last that long but by todays standards I fully expect it to be undreamed of. Even more likely the ICE will be past its use by date and we'll have moved on to something else which will be rubbish compared to future iterations of that technology.