Does anyone know if your will can be after signing etc., be scanned and saved as a PDF file, on ones hard drive. Would it still be a legal document? if so can copies be distributed to the beneficiaries, and do those copies have to be labeled "copy 1", "copy 2" etc. perhaps as a water mark.
bgt said
05:08 PM Mar 31, 2020
I'm not a lawyer. But I have been an executor a number of times.
My short answer would be no. Unless it is signed, dated and witnessed it means nothing.
I do know that a PDF can be signed and saved.
You should ask a real lawyer before more armature like me give you the wrong advice!!!!!!
TheHeaths said
05:50 PM Mar 31, 2020
In South Australia, the Executor of the estate must provide the ORIGINAL will as part of the probate application. I cannot talk for other States.
You can save whatever you wish Ian for your own records, but the prime document is the original will.
I suggest you contact the probate court in each State to confirm their requirements.
Some advice I will give is to ensure all parties signing the will, ie the person and the witnesses, all use the same pen. This created issues for Dad and I with Mums will a couple of years ago. Also, make copies of the will PRIOR to stapling the original together, as if the document is separated for copying, then put back together and then offered for granting of probate, the Executor will be questioned and asked to provide a Stat Declaration before probate will be granted.
outlaw40 said
06:26 PM Mar 31, 2020
Go directly to a lawyer and do it properly, and get them to hold your will etc letting family know where it is . Trust me just gone through one and the grief if its n9t done right isnt worth it.
PeterX said
08:19 PM Mar 31, 2020
A solicitor, will, i believe store it for free, i the hope that they will get to do the execution of the will.
An any small modifications like adding staples or other marks to the original can cause problems.
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:24 PM Mar 31, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
Go directly to a lawyer and do it properly, and get them to hold your will etc letting family know where it is .
Yep.
Cheers,
Peter
JeffRae said
10:00 PM Mar 31, 2020
Must be the original, not a copy in VIC. Why not give the original to the executor, or keep all the documents required after someone dies in one place.
And a letter given to the executor, prior, so they know where to look
iana said
10:02 AM Apr 1, 2020
Its interesting that Government departments have gone paperless (to my knowledge), all legal and otherwise documents scanned and stored as PDF files. Same goes for local councils. Seems most of the compications arise from real estate issues, and botched up dates, signatures etc.
Good advice, but a bit silly to go and see lawyers at the moment when we should be self isolating.
Cupie said
11:20 AM Apr 1, 2020
Just to broaden the discussion a little ...
We have a safe containing a secure file marked "In Case of Death" that my children all know about as I have taken them through its contents.
It contains among other things - copies of -
Our wills - made out with a Solicitor & held in a Bank Safe Custody Packet.
Enduring Power of Attorney
Advance Health Directive
Details of the Bank that holds the originals/Safe Custody Packet.
Hard copy property deeds
A Centrelink document that has details of our various accounts, investments & entitlement cards.
A couple of booklets that detail the steps that should be taken in the event of the death of a relative et al
Guide book for Executors
Directions to obtain our internet/phone accounts & passwords
Some ideas for our funeral & dealing with our remains. Includes some funeral 'handouts' that we liked along with favourite tunes as funeral music suggestions.
Details of bills that are received on line and and all direct debits.
Oh yes ... a list of people to notify by eMail etc
That's about all that I can think of at the moment.
outlaw40 said
01:53 PM Apr 1, 2020
iana your original post said nothing about needing to do this immediately so the responses you got from me and others was not SILLY and i take offence to your remark , the advice given by all responders was general and the best advice we could offer . I will repeat my original responce you do not want your loved ones dealing with your will if it hasn't been done properly because one error makes the whole thing useless , convoluted and expensive to finalise .I have just finished dealing with one such situation and i wouldn't wish it on anyone .
Greg 1 said
02:49 PM Apr 1, 2020
If you wish to do it yourself, find a good JP.
They deal with these all the time and can advise on what you can and can't do.
I did this and found the JP very helpful in guiding me on the procedure and what I needed in terms of copies and what was allowed and what wasn't.
They cannot offer legal advice but can offer procedural advice, so very worthwhile talking to one.
bgt said
08:46 PM Apr 1, 2020
A small word of advice. Whatever I say, or other well meaning posters say, you need to get legal advice. Wills are cheap to get done correctly.
I have just been a co executor of a modest estate. The will was supposedly drawn up correctly. However the lawyer/co executor made some errors. (I wont go into specifics). Two years later and approximately $90000.00 of legal fees later the estate is still not finalised. I challenged the lawyer/co executor. The case is currently before the Queensland LSC. My point being is that if a lawyer can stuff things up how much do you think a well meaning amatuer can stuff things up?
Don't say, like many older folks do, 'I'll be dead so they can sort it out". I could tell you about how my own family screwed me out of millions of dollars all because of a will that wasn't drawn up correctly. It happens. It happens every day.
oldbloke said
10:03 PM Apr 1, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
Go directly to a lawyer and do it properly, and get them to hold your will etc letting family know where it is . Trust me just gone through one and the grief if its n9t done right isnt worth it.
Correct.
Cost about $450.
And yes, leave info about bank accounts, requests for funeral etc. And sell shares. They are PITA to sort out later.
And not too many bank accounts.
Mike Harding said
10:13 AM Apr 2, 2020
Can I say that do so would be... (wait for it) - dicing with death :)
iana said
11:06 AM Apr 2, 2020
Answering my own question, it appears courtSA has gone electronic, and is doing no further manual filing. In other words all copies of wills in their possession are saved in an electronic format (PDF?), and will issue the owner or Executor with copies.
Cupie said
11:08 AM Apr 2, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
Can I say that do so would be... (wait for it) - dicing with death :)
Perhaps you have stumbled across a patch of weeds in the bush.. Those with the raggedy spikey leaves I mean.
Jaahn said
12:26 PM Apr 2, 2020
Hi
Just a comment. In the future I guess all documents will be electronic but not just yet everywhere. This pandemic might accelerate the process. My experience of using a secure electronic signature only 1.5 years ago with a document logement was a debacle and I could have saved half a day's work by driving in to do it manually on the desk. My bank scrapped all the paper house documents when they scanned all their paper work years ago. I was not impressed when we paid off the place and asked for them back.
However it would be my thought that there should be secure government repository for wills that is well known and available for interested parties after a death, similar to the land titles registry. The business of lodging a will for safe keeping with a solicitor and/or a bank is well past the use by date, due to the commercial interest involved with these bodies and lack of any personal involvement now a days. I have been a executor also and have done our wills but where to put them is the problem. Gees the kids will fight over our vast fortune
But the important thing is to avoid the need for the will as long as possible.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 2nd of April 2020 12:30:10 PM
dieseltojo said
01:34 PM Apr 2, 2020
Great idea, send it to all the kids cept the one missing out.....make'm sit up and take notice.
Sarge9 said
01:53 PM Apr 2, 2020
Iana, you can do what ever you like with your will,including scanning and posting it. And come your sad demise it might pass all hurdles as you intend, but if challenged it dose not matter if written in blood or carved in stone, various legal practitioners will at great cost to your estate, challenge your intended dispersal. Their costs come from the estate then what if anything is left is divided up as agreed by the court. Your non standard/approved electronic will will be considered in a court but may not be as binding as you would have liked. But also many proper wills when challenged do not survive the legal process too.
Good luck and keep spending..... less to fight over, lessens the fight.
Does anyone know if your will can be after signing etc., be scanned and saved as a PDF file, on ones hard drive. Would it still be a legal document? if so can copies be distributed to the beneficiaries, and do those copies have to be labeled "copy 1", "copy 2" etc. perhaps as a water mark.
My short answer would be no. Unless it is signed, dated and witnessed it means nothing.
I do know that a PDF can be signed and saved.
You should ask a real lawyer before more armature like me give you the wrong advice!!!!!!
You can save whatever you wish Ian for your own records, but the prime document is the original will.
I suggest you contact the probate court in each State to confirm their requirements.
Some advice I will give is to ensure all parties signing the will, ie the person and the witnesses, all use the same pen. This created issues for Dad and I with Mums will a couple of years ago. Also, make copies of the will PRIOR to stapling the original together, as if the document is separated for copying, then put back together and then offered for granting of probate, the Executor will be questioned and asked to provide a Stat Declaration before probate will be granted.
An any small modifications like adding staples or other marks to the original can cause problems.
Yep.
Cheers,
Peter
And a letter given to the executor, prior, so they know where to look
Good advice, but a bit silly to go and see lawyers at the moment when we should be self isolating.
Just to broaden the discussion a little ...
We have a safe containing a secure file marked "In Case of Death" that my children all know about as I have taken them through its contents.
It contains among other things - copies of -
Our wills - made out with a Solicitor & held in a Bank Safe Custody Packet.
Enduring Power of Attorney
Advance Health Directive
Details of the Bank that holds the originals/Safe Custody Packet.
Hard copy property deeds
A Centrelink document that has details of our various accounts, investments & entitlement cards.
A couple of booklets that detail the steps that should be taken in the event of the death of a relative et al
Guide book for Executors
Directions to obtain our internet/phone accounts & passwords
Some ideas for our funeral & dealing with our remains. Includes some funeral 'handouts' that we liked along with favourite tunes as funeral music suggestions.
Details of bills that are received on line and and all direct debits.
Oh yes ... a list of people to notify by eMail etc
That's about all that I can think of at the moment.
I have just been a co executor of a modest estate. The will was supposedly drawn up correctly. However the lawyer/co executor made some errors. (I wont go into specifics). Two years later and approximately $90000.00 of legal fees later the estate is still not finalised. I challenged the lawyer/co executor. The case is currently before the Queensland LSC. My point being is that if a lawyer can stuff things up how much do you think a well meaning amatuer can stuff things up?
Don't say, like many older folks do, 'I'll be dead so they can sort it out". I could tell you about how my own family screwed me out of millions of dollars all because of a will that wasn't drawn up correctly. It happens. It happens every day.
Correct.
Cost about $450.
And yes, leave info about bank accounts, requests for funeral etc. And sell shares. They are PITA to sort out later.
And not too many bank accounts.
Can I say that do so would be... (wait for it) - dicing with death :)
Perhaps you have stumbled across a patch of weeds in the bush.. Those with the raggedy spikey leaves I mean.
Hi
Just a comment. In the future I guess all documents will be electronic but not just yet everywhere. This pandemic might accelerate the process.
My experience of using a secure electronic signature only 1.5 years ago with a document logement was a debacle and I could have saved half a day's work by driving in to do it manually on the desk. My bank scrapped all the paper house documents when they scanned all their paper work years ago. I was not impressed when we paid off the place and asked for them back.
However it would be my thought that there should be secure government repository for wills that is well known and available for interested parties after a death, similar to the land titles registry. The business of lodging a will for safe keeping with a solicitor and/or a bank is well past the use by date, due to the commercial interest involved with these bodies and lack of any personal involvement now a days. I have been a executor also and have done our wills but where to put them is the problem. Gees the kids will fight over our vast fortune
But the important thing is to avoid the need for the will as long as possible.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 2nd of April 2020 12:30:10 PM
Great idea, send it to all the kids cept the one missing out.....make'm sit up and take notice.
Good luck and keep spending..... less to fight over, lessens the fight.
Sarge.