Hi .Today I took my van over to Moama and got it weighed .Proir to this I filled both water tanks to max .Thats 180 ltrs or 180 kg .As we both keep an entire wardrobe of clothes in the van this was covered too .On more than 1 occasion I have weighed our foodstuffs and 20 ,kg more than covers our only extra so to speak .
Our Pajero also only takes us plus a slab of beer and a slabof small water bottles .(we have never ! Drank any other water in the last 15 yrs as it only goes in our coffee machine plus 2 in the console ), plus our ziggy gas bbq .
I drove on the pad with van and tug ...4920kg .
Next I moved the tug off the pad ..van 2380 kg
Before leaving home my ball weight was 220 kg .
So...vans GTM 2551kg
Van and tug total 4920 leaves tug at 2540 kg
Ball weightis very close to the old 10 percent rule !
I have had both rigs since 2012 and have always been very happy with both but fitted ESC in 2014 because ..just because !
So all is good in my world !
As an aside ,the weights place (a major transport company ) Informed me that the NSWpolice and TRB guys are going in very heavy on the caravan industry and a high !percentage are being fined
My outlay was 20 dollars for my 2 certificates ..pretty cheap.
Cheers John
Dougwe said
04:10 PM Jun 4, 2020
G'day John, long time no see.
Now, mate, you are a brave man for putting this post up. I have popcorn by the plenty if needed.
That all said and I will more than likely regret this question however, what was the vans ATM
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Collo said
05:18 PM Jun 4, 2020
Over to you Yobarr!!
Its all good fun!
Collo
Roy E said
05:45 PM Jun 4, 2020
As Doug says, get out the popcorn.
John, are you saying your van GTM is 2551? Wasn't it 2380 as weighed?
2380 plus 220 towball equals 2600. Isn't this your ATM?
10% of 2600 is 260, not 220.
Isn't the Pajero limited to 180 ball weight when trailer ATM over 2500?
Just asking.
Cheers,
Roy.
moamajohn said
05:58 PM Jun 4, 2020
Gday Doug ,yeh it does not take long does it ! I enjoy the banter .I a,
m happy with my lot as a TRB man lives local and sez to me all is Ok with my lot and I wont be drawn into the bull**** game that will ensue . Its another reason why I am keeping away from the forum lately. I am only trying to make folk aware to be up to speed with weights .pure and simple !I shall go back into my shell as of now .Look forward to a nice day with you Doug in the future . Cheers .
blaze said
06:26 PM Jun 4, 2020
89kg wringing wet
cheers
blaze
moamajohn said
06:27 PM Jun 4, 2020
Aw yeh I neglected to say that as oldies we never actually carry watersince we never free camp with this van as we own a lovely little 40 yr old Franklin van that we bush bash along the Murray monthly as a consequence our weight is down a further 180 kg and a ball weight of170 since the tanks are foward of the axle .The van tows magnificent !
yobarr said
06:28 PM Jun 4, 2020
Collo wrote:
Over to you Yobarr!!
Its all good fun!
Collo
Later!
moamajohn said
06:57 PM Jun 4, 2020
Yo Doug I got it wrond ATM IS 2551 !
Greg 1 said
10:43 PM Jun 4, 2020
I was going to say that if you want to stay legal, then you had better make sure your ball weight is no more than the 180kgs for the Pajero at that van ATM. The heavies are not dumb and they know about things like the Pajero's limits.
Mike Harding said
06:33 AM Jun 5, 2020
When I weighed my van it was overweight and now I've added my home-made 10A to15A adaptor cable it'll be even worse!
Dougwe said
08:35 AM Jun 5, 2020
Yep, doesn't take much Mike.
I wasn't going to say this but hey, I can't help myself sorry.
Due to CV19 I haven't been able to get haircut's so my teepee will be over weight for sure. It's that long now I look like my years as a young warrior brave with long hair and tied back in a pony tail.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Craig1 said
09:29 AM Jun 5, 2020
Good job it is only a pony tail, Braids WEIGH MORE
yobarr said
09:35 AM Jun 5, 2020
moamajohn wrote:
Yo Doug I got it wrond ATM IS 2551 !
Hi John....great to see you back! Whilst I am not affected,many members will no doubt be interested to learn of the weighing activities of the NSW police,and the TRB.That is the good news,but the bad news is that,using your own figures,you are overloaded and uninsured. You advise that,before you left home,your towball weight was 220kg,and that when you weighed your van,the weight on the wheels was 2380kg.You are no doubt aware that ATM is towball weight plus weight on van wheels? Thus your van weighed 2600kg but your legal ATM is only 2551kg,so you are overloaded by 49kg.....BUT,the fun doesn't end there,as you further advise that you are running with towball weight of 220kg on a car that is limited to only 180kg towball weight if the van being towed is over 2500kg total weight. Sad but true,and if you do have an accident and your van is weighed,there will be no insurance.And I would suggest that you have been ill-advised by the TRB man if indeed the figures you have given are correct.The only redeeming fact is that,again assuming your figures are correct,you car has weight on wheels of 2540kg,while the van has weight on wheels of 2380kg,which means that the car is around 7% heavier than the van.Whilst not an ideal situation,your vehicle would be a lot more stable,and safer,than the current crop of twin-cab utes blissfully running around towing 3500kg. Those are an accident looking for a place to happen.Good luck with your travels.Cheers.
P.S Roy is onto it,and Greg's advice also is good.
Gundog said
10:17 AM Jun 5, 2020
moamajohn wrote:
Hi .Today I took my van over to Moama and got it weighed .
As an aside ,the weights place (a major transport company ) Informed me that the NSWpolice and TRB guys are going in very heavy on the caravan industry and a high !percentage are being fined.
My outlay was 20 dollars for my 2 certificates ..pretty cheap. Cheers John
Hi John excellent decision to have your combination weighed, as for the the certificates yep a good reference, but after a about 14 days they are meaningless, may I suggest next time you weigh your rig again get the axle weights on the bitsaremissing as well.
I'd take the transport companies statement about weighing of vans and the fines with a grain of salt, because if they were we would have heard it here and other caravan forums, not a peep about it this year.
Roblin31 said
10:35 PM Jan 21, 2021
Well, I'm going to contradict YOBARR's statement here and say that MOAMAJOHN has a GTM of 2551kg not an ATM; ATM being a sum of the GTM and ball weight whereas the GTM is the maximum weight that can be placed on the wheels when hitched. Based on manufacturers also using the 10% rule, Moamajohn's ATM should be somewhere around 2850kg; that being the GTM plus ball weight. In regards to towball weight and the Pajero, I absolutely agree. I could never understand why Mitsubishi would have such a stupid system.
Roblin31, Welcome to the forum - I trust your time here will be of a benefit to you, us as we sort out the problems of caravanning & learning what others have done.
Mitsubishi wasn't the only manufacturer to have reduced towing weights due to high ball weights. I think it was RockyLizard who showed in this forum a couple of years ago a chart showing the cars that were affected. And to my shock (about six months before I changed vehicles), my then car - a 2004 GU 4.2LTD Nissan Patrol also had a sticker on one of the rear doors stating the same. Over 2500kg, it stated reductions according to ball weight. Of course "everyone said it could tow 3,500kg"! B......!
yobarr said
02:31 AM Jan 22, 2021
Roblin31 wrote:
Well, I'm going to contradict YOBARR's statement here and say that MOAMAJOHN has a GTM of 2551kg not an ATM; ATM being a sum of the GTM and ball weight whereas the GTM is the maximum weight that can be placed on the wheels when hitched. Based on manufacturers also using the 10% rule, Moamajohn's ATM should be somewhere around 2850kg; that being the GTM plus ball weight. In regards to towball weight and the Pajero, I absolutely agree. I could never understand why Mitsubishi would have such a stupid system.
Hi Robert...Interesting first post from a member of over 7 years standing,in reply to a thread that is now 9 months old! ATM is a rating,and is stamped on the van's compliance plate.John wrote,at 6.57pm on June 4th last,in this thread,that his ATM is 2551kg.....End of story. John first post in this thread says that the weight on his van's wheels is 2380kg. You are confusing GTM with axle ratings.Among my rubbish I still have a photo of the compliance plate of a friend's van which shows ATM 2180kg, GTM 1960kg and axle group load capacity of 2800kg.Hope this helps you to understand, but if you need further assistance,there are several members here who do know weights,and we always are happy to help.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 22nd of January 2021 03:10:40 AM
The reasons for Mitsubishi limiting the ball weight over a towed weight of 2500kgs could be many and varied, from towbar mount points, chassis structure and rear axle/suspension capacities.
The Pajero's independent suspension doesn't help in towing large weights and so for any or all of those reasons the limit has been applied.
Having owned and really liked a Paj, they are a very good tug upto the 2500kgs van weight but over that then I really would be looking for something else.
I really didn't want to sell my Pajero but when I bought the current van I was forced to due to the ball weight issue. The Ranger I now have is a much better tow vehicle for a heavy van, having owned both.
travelyounger said
11:44 AM Jan 22, 2021
yobarr wrote:
Roblin31 wrote:
Well, I'm going to contradict YOBARR's statement here and say that MOAMAJOHN has a GTM of 2551kg not an ATM; ATM being a sum of the GTM and ball weight whereas the GTM is the maximum weight that can be placed on the wheels when hitched. Based on manufacturers also using the 10% rule, Moamajohn's ATM should be somewhere around 2850kg; that being the GTM plus ball weight. In regards to towball weight and the Pajero, I absolutely agree. I could never understand why Mitsubishi would have such a stupid system.
Hi Robert...Interesting first post from a member of over 7 years standing,in reply to a thread that is now 9 months old! ATM is a rating,and is stamped on the van's compliance plate.John wrote,at 6.57pm on June 4th last,in this thread,that his ATM is 2551kg.....End of story. John first post in this thread says that the weight on his van's wheels is 2380kg. You are confusing GTM with axle ratings.Among my rubbish I still have a photo of the compliance plate of a friend's van which shows ATM 2180kg, GTM 1960kg and axle group load capacity of 2800kg.Hope this helps you to understand, but if you need further assistance,there are several members here who do know weights,and we always are happy to help.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 22nd of January 2021 03:10:40 AM
Line 4 Among my rubbish well said
Rod Mac said
01:15 PM Jan 22, 2021
Yobarr.
Just a minor point in your reply, you wrote his 'legal' ATM is 2551, I see that weight as what his van actually weighed, as I do not see anywhere that he mentioned his compliance plated ATM Rating for his van, he may be under his rated ATM for all we know or he may be over.
Do not take it as being criticism, just an observation of the thread replies.
-- Edited by Rod Mac on Friday 22nd of January 2021 01:16:13 PM
yobarr said
02:01 PM Jan 22, 2021
Rod Mac wrote:
Yobarr.
Just a minor point in your reply, you wrote his 'legal' ATM is 2551, I see that weight as what his van actually weighed, as I do not see anywhere that he mentioned his compliance plated ATM Rating for his van, he may be under his rated ATM for all we know or he may be over.Do not take it as being criticism, just an observation of the thread replies.
-- Edited by Rod Mac on Friday 22nd of January 2021 01:16:13 PM
Hi Rod....if you care to read John's first post in this thread,made at 2.57pm on June 4 last,you will notice in line 6 that he has stated that GTM is 2551kg,which is possibly what has confused you.Later that same day,June 4,at 6.57pm John has corrected himself after a query by Doug,and has then stated that the weight he was referring to was actually the ATM of 2551kg.This number will be on the compliance plate.Because this ATM rating of 2551kg is the maximum that the van can legally weigh... ..axle weight and towball weight combined...his current 2380kg GTM (actual weight on van wheels) plus his measured towball weight of 220kg means the van's total weight is 2600kg.He is thus overloaded and uninsured.Hope this helps? Cheers
Rod Mac said
03:19 PM Jan 22, 2021
Hi Yobarr, yes I can see that now, first read through his GTM 2551 referred to was actually ATM but not stated as the rated ATM, this was corrected in a later post.
A bit of confusion and yes his actual weight is 2600 on those figures provided.
As far as Pajero varying tow ball weights, conjecture may be that along with the structural component limits, it may be a way of also allowing GCM to comply with a bit of more allowance for load in the Tug, that 70kg difference may mean not having to leave a child behind !!!!
yobarr said
03:55 PM Jan 22, 2021
Rod Mac wrote:
Hi Yobarr, yes I can see that now, first read through his GTM 2551 referred to was actually ATM but not stated as the rated ATM, this was corrected in a later post.
A bit of confusion and yes his actual weight is 2600 on those figures provided.
As far as Pajero varying tow ball weights, conjecture may be that along with the structural component limits, it may be a way of also allowing GCM to comply with a bit of more allowance for load in the Tug, that 70kg difference may mean not having to leave a child behind !!!!
Hi Rod...yes,all is well that ends well,which is unlikely to be the case if some poor unsuspecting caravanner hooks a 3000kg van (PIG trailer) to his Pajero! With the legal 180kg towball weight,he would thus be running around towing 3 ton behind a lightweight vehicle with 6% towball weight. Anyone who has any understanding of weights and physics would know that this would be an accident looking for a place to happen,and an exercise in stupidity.Greg's explanation of the situation,gained from personal experience,is right on the money,I believe.Cheers
Bicyclecamper said
05:23 PM Jan 22, 2021
I am just waiting for the roads people to pull me over on my bike with my camper in tow. Its all up weight plus battery and solar panels and dog, and gear is 75kg. All the water and food is carried on my steel bike with steel hubs. With both I, the bike the panniers and gear, food and average 25kg of water is 115kg. The actually weight the bike can carry is 125kg, and the tow weight is to be n o more 55kg. Do you guys think they would put me off the road or even fine me for being overweight on my towing capabilities?
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 22nd of January 2021 05:25:00 PM
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 22nd of January 2021 05:28:55 PM
orid said
07:59 PM Jan 22, 2021
as long as you keep to the 100kmh speed limit you should be fine.
Whenarewethere said
08:26 PM Jan 22, 2021
I did a spreadsheet for every last item I put in the car. Even then I missed a few things.
Not including food or clothes, I had 24kg of items under 1kg. It is surprising how the little things add up. Phone cables, floor mats, maps, larger tyres 6 x 3kg to name a few!
G'day John, long time no see.
Now, mate, you are a brave man for putting this post up. I have popcorn by the plenty if needed.
That all said and I will more than likely regret this question however, what was the vans ATM
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Over to you Yobarr!!
Its all good fun!
Collo
John, are you saying your van GTM is 2551? Wasn't it 2380 as weighed?
2380 plus 220 towball equals 2600. Isn't this your ATM?
10% of 2600 is 260, not 220.
Isn't the Pajero limited to 180 ball weight when trailer ATM over 2500?
Just asking.
Cheers,
Roy.
cheers
blaze
Later!
When I weighed my van it was overweight and now I've added my home-made 10A to15A adaptor cable it'll be even worse!
I wasn't going to say this but hey, I can't help myself sorry.
Due to CV19 I haven't been able to get haircut's so my teepee will be over weight for sure. It's that long now I look like my years as a young warrior brave with long hair and tied back in a pony tail.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Hi John....great to see you back! Whilst I am not affected,many members will no doubt be interested to learn of the weighing activities of the NSW police,and the TRB.That is the good news,but the bad news is that,using your own figures,you are overloaded and uninsured. You advise that,before you left home,your towball weight was 220kg,and that when you weighed your van,the weight on the wheels was 2380kg.You are no doubt aware that ATM is towball weight plus weight on van wheels? Thus your van weighed 2600kg but your legal ATM is only 2551kg,so you are overloaded by 49kg.....BUT,the fun doesn't end there,as you further advise that you are running with towball weight of 220kg on a car that is limited to only 180kg towball weight if the van being towed is over 2500kg total weight. Sad but true,and if you do have an accident and your van is weighed,there will be no insurance.And I would suggest that you have been ill-advised by the TRB man if indeed the figures you have given are correct.The only redeeming fact is that,again assuming your figures are correct,you car has weight on wheels of 2540kg,while the van has weight on wheels of 2380kg,which means that the car is around 7% heavier than the van.Whilst not an ideal situation,your vehicle would be a lot more stable,and safer,than the current crop of twin-cab utes blissfully running around towing 3500kg. Those are an accident looking for a place to happen.Good luck with your travels.Cheers.
P.S Roy is onto it,and Greg's advice also is good.
Hi John excellent decision to have your combination weighed, as for the the certificates yep a good reference, but after a about 14 days they are meaningless, may I suggest next time you weigh your rig again get the axle weights on the bitsaremissing as well.
I'd take the transport companies statement about weighing of vans and the fines with a grain of salt, because if they were we would have heard it here and other caravan forums, not a peep about it this year.
www.withoutahitch.com.au/caravan/atm-vs-gtm/
Mitsubishi wasn't the only manufacturer to have reduced towing weights due to high ball weights. I think it was RockyLizard who showed in this forum a couple of years ago a chart showing the cars that were affected. And to my shock (about six months before I changed vehicles), my then car - a 2004 GU 4.2LTD Nissan Patrol also had a sticker on one of the rear doors stating the same. Over 2500kg, it stated reductions according to ball weight. Of course "everyone said it could tow 3,500kg"! B......!
Hi Robert...Interesting first post from a member of over 7 years standing,in reply to a thread that is now 9 months old! ATM is a rating,and is stamped on the van's compliance plate.John wrote,at 6.57pm on June 4th last,in this thread,that his ATM is 2551kg.....End of story. John first post in this thread says that the weight on his van's wheels is 2380kg. You are confusing GTM with axle ratings.Among my rubbish I still have a photo of the compliance plate of a friend's van which shows ATM 2180kg, GTM 1960kg and axle group load capacity of 2800kg.Hope this helps you to understand, but if you need further assistance,there are several members here who do know weights,and we always are happy to help.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 22nd of January 2021 03:10:40 AM
Line 4 Among my rubbish well said
Yobarr.
Just a minor point in your reply, you wrote his 'legal' ATM is 2551, I see that weight as what his van actually weighed, as I do not see anywhere that he mentioned his compliance plated ATM Rating for his van, he may be under his rated ATM for all we know or he may be over.
Do not take it as being criticism, just an observation of the thread replies.
-- Edited by Rod Mac on Friday 22nd of January 2021 01:16:13 PM
Hi Rod....if you care to read John's first post in this thread,made at 2.57pm on June 4 last,you will notice in line 6 that he has stated that GTM is 2551kg,which is possibly what has confused you.Later that same day,June 4,at 6.57pm John has corrected himself after a query by Doug,and has then stated that the weight he was referring to was actually the ATM of 2551kg.This number will be on the compliance plate.Because this ATM rating of 2551kg is the maximum that the van can legally weigh... ..axle weight and towball weight combined...his current 2380kg GTM (actual weight on van wheels) plus his measured towball weight of 220kg means the van's total weight is 2600kg.He is thus overloaded and uninsured.Hope this helps? Cheers
Hi Yobarr, yes I can see that now, first read through his GTM 2551 referred to was actually ATM but not stated as the rated ATM, this was corrected in a later post.
A bit of confusion and yes his actual weight is 2600 on those figures provided.
As far as Pajero varying tow ball weights, conjecture may be that along with the structural component limits, it may be a way of also allowing GCM to comply with a bit of more allowance for load in the Tug, that 70kg difference may mean not having to leave a child behind !!!!
Hi Rod...yes,all is well that ends well,which is unlikely to be the case if some poor unsuspecting caravanner hooks a 3000kg van (PIG trailer) to his Pajero! With the legal 180kg towball weight,he would thus be running around towing 3 ton behind a lightweight vehicle with 6% towball weight. Anyone who has any understanding of weights and physics would know that this would be an accident looking for a place to happen,and an exercise in stupidity.Greg's explanation of the situation,gained from personal experience,is right on the money,I believe.Cheers
I am just waiting for the roads people to pull me over on my bike with my camper in tow. Its all up weight plus battery and solar panels and dog, and gear is 75kg. All the water and food is carried on my steel bike with steel hubs. With both I, the bike the panniers and gear, food and average 25kg of water is 115kg. The actually weight the bike can carry is 125kg, and the tow weight is to be n o more 55kg. Do you guys think they would put me off the road or even fine me for being overweight on my towing capabilities?
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 22nd of January 2021 05:25:00 PM
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 22nd of January 2021 05:28:55 PM
as long as you keep to the 100kmh speed limit you should be fine.
I did a spreadsheet for every last item I put in the car. Even then I missed a few things.
Not including food or clothes, I had 24kg of items under 1kg. It is surprising how the little things add up. Phone cables, floor mats, maps, larger tyres 6 x 3kg to name a few!