Does the word - caravanning have one or two n's in it?
Google seems divided about it.
What's your opinion?
Joe.
Hi Joe....I reckon it's gotta be "caravanning",or it would need to be pronounced "caravayning".Think "caning",as opposed to "canning".Just my thoughts!Cheers
Old and Grey said
06:26 PM Jun 5, 2020
Hi FarmHat,
Well, I need spec Savers. Did you mean, does our Caravanning carry One's and Two's. OURS DOES. Old will send me to the chicken coup. IM Bad. The Port made do it.
Have a Safe W/E.
Grey
Mobi Condo said
08:22 PM Jun 5, 2020
Farmhat wrote:
Does the word - caravanning have one or two n's in it?
Google seems divided about it.
What's your opinion?
Joe.
I am really old fashioned. I adhere to what I was taught in school. BUT since 1966 when I left school I have learnt that English is a living language and will evolve as per popular usage of terms, words etc., much to my dismay!
However I have also been told I am a Luddite because I abhor what is happening with the digital progress etc. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE technology and see the fantastic uses it has and the potential available.
HOWEVER, (next however might get RED BOLD UPPERCASE!!!) GOOGLE gets under my skin.
That is a real annoyance coz I have a pretty THICK skin too! So I devised a small phrase about todays over use and abuse of digital stuff - we are over run by "Digital Device Driven Deviates", but I have a wise friend who suggested I should tame that down to "Digital Device Driven Drongos".
Nearly all of my younger acquaintances still in the work place have occupations whereby they sit at a desk all day, with at least two screens to watch and a personal plus a work place issued smart phone, and the heaviest thing they lift is a mouse, then a cup of latte' ----- then they wonder why I don't answer their texts, emails, PM's etc. within minutes of them sending them!
They ALL refer to GOOGLE as their reference on all matters of their own ignorance. Some do not even know when it is day or night!! Serious!
Oh - Ian calm down or you will have a a a a a ................. beeeeeeeep! Too late!
I truly believe that they have forgotten how to exercise their brain cells.
Cheers - I feel better now, Ian.
Tony Bev said
09:08 PM Jun 5, 2020
I have Windows 10, and (old) Microsoft Word, with English/Australian dictionary
It is spelt caravanning, on my computer
Farmhat said
01:56 AM Jun 6, 2020
Whenarewethere, good idea the dictionary, thanks. I didn't think of that at the time.
yobarr, I reckon you're right. I remember the cane, and I didn't like it.
Grey, thanks for the chuckle.
Ian, pretty much agree with all you wrote.
This page below from Google shows 50/50.
Out on the road, Google has led me up the garden path a time or two, and I reckon probably more than one or two of you all as well.
Tony, that makes two dictionary entries the same. Good confirmation I got it right, :) Thanks.
Just to be different, I think there are 3 ns in caravanning.
dorian said
08:55 AM Jun 6, 2020
AIUI, "van" is derived from "caravan", so one could ask whether "vaning" or "vanning" is correct. On this basis I vote for "caravanning".
SouthernComfort said
09:14 AM Jun 6, 2020
Vaning would be pronounced 'Vane-ing'. Caravanning is correct, it has two n's for that reason.
When you correctly type caravanning it will red-line a misspell due to the 'American English' default on most computers. American English is its own language.
Mike Harding said
11:43 AM Jun 6, 2020
I contest that it is even a proper word!
How can caravan become a verb? If one owns a car and goes for a drive is one carring (caring)? If I live in a house am I housing?
Bah, humbug!
Anyway, on the subject of spelling:
----
My Knew Pea Sea
Eye have a spelling chequer It came with my pea sea, It planely marques four my revue Miss steaks eye kin not sea.
Eye strike a key and right a word And weight four it two sae Weather eye am wrong oar write It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid It nose bee fore two long, And eye can put the error rite, Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it I am shore your pleased two no Its letter perfect all the weigh My chequer has tolled me sew!
----
SouthernComfort said
12:34 PM Jun 6, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
I contest that it is even a proper word!
----
I don't like the language being messed about with either, but you'd have to similarly contest dozens of words used in the modern vernacular appearing in current dictionaries.
JayDee said
09:19 PM Jun 6, 2020
Very simple method I learnt back in the 1940:-
A like an Apple.
B like a bat
C like a cat
D like a dog etc etc
Somehow it worked for me.
Plus kids today can not tell you what 7 x 8 equals.
I do remembering asking someone as to why Aussie kids are not taught at school about Australian History and Geography .... His answer was ... If they need to know they can access it on Mr Google.
An he was an ex school teacher. ?????
Any wonder we are not at the top of the tree in international schooling.
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Saturday 6th of June 2020 09:20:10 PM
dorian said
07:27 AM Jun 7, 2020
JayDee wrote:
I do remembering asking someone as to why Aussie kids are not taught at school about Australian History and Geography .... His answer was ... If they need to know they can access it on Mr Google.
The days of the polymath are long gone. These days the best you can hope for is to know a little about a lot, or a lot about a little, but most of us have to be content with knowing a little about a little.
So what should our schools teach us? Should we really cram our heads with facts that serve no contemporary purpose? Should we learn about Shakespeare who wrote literature in some archaic language, or should we study contemporary authors who write about the world we live in today?
The sad fact about English is that it spawns an entire school subject which we refer to as "spelling". If the language had been standardized by intelligent forefathers, it would now be phonetic, or at least bound by strict rules, thereby obviating the need for the years of rote learning that constitutes "spelling". In that respect it is somewhat like Chinese where several formative years are wasted learning several thousand characters when two dozen are all that are necessary. Hangul (Korean) is a language that was designed from the ground up. Hangul characters may look like hieroglyphs to a Westerner, but there are only two dozen of them, and these can be learned in an afternoon.
Mike Harding said
01:01 PM Jun 7, 2020
dorian wrote:So what should our schools teach us? Should we really cram our heads with facts that serve no contemporary purpose? Should we learn about Shakespeare who wrote literature in some archaic language, or should we study contemporary authors who write about the world we live in today?
The sad fact about English is that it spawns an entire school subject which we refer to as "spelling". If the language had been standardized by intelligent forefathers, it would now be phonetic
[Bits snipped]
There are many thing children should be taught over 13 years of schooling but over and above everything else no child should leave school without being able to read and write basic English. This is a critical requirement in modern society and it damn well should be a *right* for all children in a developed country.
Facts: education is about much more than facts but unless one appreciates many facts it is impossible use logical reasoning.
Shakespeare has stood the test of time and proven his value, current authors sometimes have good and valid things to say, sometimes they write crap - choices need to be made without political or social prejudice.
Phonetic: God but I hope not! :) Listen to Glaswegian, ****ney, Fen and Welsh accents and then tell me native English can be phonetic... cobber....
It seems to me that Political Correctness including the irrational desire for all children (people) to be equal, and/or treated equally, has done a great disservice to education. Children, of course, have different strengths and weaknesses and need to be educated accordingly ie. streamed. And disruptive children should be removed from the class - one child should not be allowed to damage the education of 30 other children. Educate the disruptive children separately.
Edit:
It would seem the idiot who wrote the "naughty word" software for this forum needs much more education: the deleted word above is Coc.kney - a culture of London.
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Sunday 7th of June 2020 01:04:16 PM
dorian said
05:34 AM Jun 8, 2020
"Coc.kney" is not a culture, it's an entire society with a common speech impediment. The irony is that the English are the worst exponents of their own language.
As for facts, I agree that there has to be a balance between the learning of facts and the development of reasoning skills. So where do you draw the line? To use a simple example, should school teach you how to multiply and divide, or how to use a calculator? Obviously the answer is the former, but not all choices are as clear cut. In my professional work I relied on rote knowledge for the simple stuff, and technical references for the more complicated stuff. However, in both cases I still understood how to derive complicated formulae from first principles, even if I had to refer to a text book to refresh my memory.
BTW, I now use Google's calculator for many of my calculations, but that's because it is far superior to alternative tools.
Dougwe said
09:18 AM Jun 8, 2020
Personally, I don't really care if words are spelt wrong or not as long as you can read the topic all good. I see many mistakes including mine but just don't worry. We are not sitting an English test.
The thing I do find hard though is people that don't break up the post, as put in paragraphs. I don't care if they should be there or not, just break the lines up. I find it hard to read otherwise and many times don't bother even trying to read.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
SouthernComfort said
09:52 AM Jun 8, 2020
dorian wrote:
"Coc.kney" is not a culture, it's an entire society with a common speech impediment. The irony is that the English are the worst exponents of their own language.
As for facts, I agree that there has to be a balance between the learning of facts and the development of reasoning skills. So where do you draw the line? To use a simple example, should school teach you how to multiply and divide, or how to use a calculator? Obviously the answer is the former, but not all choices are as clear cut. In my professional work I relied on rote knowledge for the simple stuff, and technical references for the more complicated stuff. However, in both cases I still understood how to derive complicated formulae from first principles, even if I had to refer to a text book to refresh my memory.
BTW, I now use Google's calculator for many of my calculations, but that's because it is far superior to alternative tools.
Coc.kney is a dialect, it's been around since the 1500's. Arguably, the lifestyle and customs of real Coc.kneys can also be considered a culture. Many Australian words and phrases are directly derived from Coc.kney. As for deciding who are the worst exponents of the English language, well they're in plentiful supply in every English speaking country, to make any judgement would be purely subjective. ALL English speaking countries and their many regions display great diversity in the language. Accent, dialect, hybrid phrases, colloquialisms etc. all make up a 'local' spoken English (which has nothing to do with written English). The English language has evolved in Britain over a couple of thousand years with the original influencers being foreign invaders and interlopers i.e. Romans, Vikings, Saxons and Celts et al. It's no surprise that so many different accents and dialects exist in a such geographically small land. Most ancient countries of Europe, Asia, Africa etc. have similar diversity in their languages. Try speaking French in a 'Parisian' dialect to a local in Bayonne and see how far you get. Indigenous Australia is a classic with around 300 Aboriginal languages and many can't understand each other. Happens everywhere.
As for what should be taught in schools: Literacy - the 3 R's without phoney phonetics, then the facts as they relate to subjects with appropriate use of technology. Teachers should leave their personal political beliefs at home, instead encouraging and recognising achievement which would better help kids prepare for survival in the real world.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Monday 8th of June 2020 09:54:16 AM
dorian said
11:36 AM Jun 8, 2020
One wonders what happens in a London school. Does the teacher teach children to count like Coc.kneys (one, two, free), or do they learn to count to a standard like the rest of the English speaking world?
ISTM that the worst damage to the English language was inflicted by the Norman invaders. They brought with them a written language where one in three letters is not pronounced. I guess one saving grace of English is that it didn't develop an excessively complicated grammar, unlike Germanic or Slavic grammars.
AISI, language is anarchical and illogical in many ways. The Koreans designed their alphabet in 1446 and it is one of the few cases of intelligent intervention, Esperanto being another, albeit unsuccessful.
Tony Bev said
02:12 PM Jun 8, 2020
One wonders what happens in a London school. Does the teacher teach children to count like Coc.kneys (one, two, free) Not wanting to go off topic
But...
Coming from uupp norff of the Old Dart, in the nineteen sixties
I actually thought that everyone in Australia, was a Coc.ney, due to the Aussie accent, being very similar
dorian said
05:47 PM Jun 8, 2020
Now that we've become a "global" society, I expect that dialects will slowly fade away, and English will absorb more input from other sources. For example, we can already see Americanisms creeping into British English. It could be argued that Americans have improved the language by simplifying its spelling in a logical way (eg color versus colour).
In fact the etymology of words such as "colour", "rancour" and "valour" is confirmation, in my mind at least, of just how stupid people really are.
We see that each word is of Latin origin, with sensible phonetic spelling -- color, rancor, valor. Then the French got hold of them, added a silent "u", and inflicted them upon the English.
valour
ORIGIN Middle English (denoting worth derived from personal qualities or rank): via Old French from late Latin valor, from valere 'be strong'.
colour
ORIGIN Middle English: from Old French colour (noun), colourer (verb), from Latin color (noun), colorare (verb).
rancour
ORIGIN Middle English: via Old French from late Latin rancor 'rankness' (in the Vulgate 'bitter grudge'), related to Latin rancidus 'stinking'.
SouthernComfort said
09:14 AM Jun 9, 2020
dorian wrote:
Now that we've become a "global" society, I expect that dialects will slowly fade away, and English will absorb more input from other sources.....
Dialects are largely inherent, sometimes adopted, but they will be around (in all languages possessing multiple dialects) for way longer than we could ever guess. English and other languages may continue to morph slightly as time goes on and as new words are invented by younger generations. English is still the widest spoken language globally (and the international language of aviation) and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Heaven forbid we should try to create a global language based purely on simplicity and logic. Progress is one thing but individuality, character, culture and history are vitally important to humans. Esperanto was a fanciful theory that died before it started, again no one wants a world that bland and sterile.
Mike Harding said
02:25 PM Jun 9, 2020
SouthernComfort wrote:Progress is one thing but individuality, character, culture and history are vitally important to humans. Esperanto was a fanciful theory that died before it started, again no one wants a world that bland and sterile.
Absolutely! Well said.
BruDi said
03:07 PM Jun 9, 2020
Reading and writing is important. However I believe that problem solving, thinking, being adaptable, having a sense of humour, having a sense of inquiry and knowing how to find information is equally as important. Facts happen as a result of learning. Also, don't be afraid to make a mistake; learn from it.
Di
yobarr said
03:53 PM Jun 9, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
SouthernComfort wrote:Progress is one thing but individuality, character, culture and history are vitally important to humans. Esperanto was a fanciful theory that died before it started, again no one wants a world that bland and sterile.
Absolutely! Well said.
And the death of commonsense doesn't help.....
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 9th of June 2020 03:55:46 PM
Does the word - caravanning have one or two n's in it?
Google seems divided about it.
What's your opinion?
Joe.
In a little book called a dictionary!
Hi Joe....I reckon it's gotta be "caravanning",or it would need to be pronounced "caravayning".Think "caning",as opposed to "canning".Just my thoughts!Cheers
Hi FarmHat,
Well, I need spec Savers. Did you mean, does our Caravanning carry One's and Two's. OURS DOES. Old will send me to the chicken coup.
IM Bad. The Port made do it.
Have a Safe W/E.
Grey
I am really old fashioned. I adhere to what I was taught in school. BUT since 1966 when I left school I have learnt that English is a living language and will evolve as per popular usage of terms, words etc., much to my dismay!
However I have also been told I am a Luddite because I abhor what is happening with the digital progress etc. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE technology and see the fantastic uses it has and the potential available.
HOWEVER, (next however might get RED BOLD UPPERCASE!!!) GOOGLE gets under my skin.
That is a real annoyance coz I have a pretty THICK skin too! So I devised a small phrase about todays over use and abuse of digital stuff - we are over run by "Digital Device Driven Deviates", but I have a wise friend who suggested I should tame that down to "Digital Device Driven Drongos".
Nearly all of my younger acquaintances still in the work place have occupations whereby they sit at a desk all day, with at least two screens to watch and a personal plus a work place issued smart phone, and the heaviest thing they lift is a mouse, then a cup of latte' ----- then they wonder why I don't answer their texts, emails, PM's etc. within minutes of them sending them!
They ALL refer to GOOGLE as their reference on all matters of their own ignorance. Some do not even know when it is day or night!! Serious!
Oh - Ian calm down or you will have a a a a a ................. beeeeeeeep! Too late!
I truly believe that they have forgotten how to exercise their brain cells.
Cheers - I feel better now, Ian.
It is spelt caravanning, on my computer
Whenarewethere, good idea the dictionary, thanks. I didn't think of that at the time.
yobarr, I reckon you're right. I remember the cane, and I didn't like it.
Grey, thanks for the chuckle.
Ian, pretty much agree with all you wrote.
This page below from Google shows 50/50.
Out on the road, Google has led me up the garden path a time or two, and I reckon probably more than one or two of you all as well.
Tony, that makes two dictionary entries the same. Good confirmation I got it right, :) Thanks.
Joe
When you correctly type caravanning it will red-line a misspell due to the 'American English' default on most computers. American English is its own language.
I contest that it is even a proper word!
How can caravan become a verb? If one owns a car and goes for a drive is one carring (caring)? If I live in a house am I housing?
Bah, humbug!
Anyway, on the subject of spelling:
----
My Knew Pea Sea
Eye have a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea,
It planely marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin not sea.
Eye strike a key and right a word
And weight four it two sae
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long,
And eye can put the error rite,
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect all the weigh
My chequer has tolled me sew!
----
I don't like the language being messed about with either, but you'd have to similarly contest dozens of words used in the modern vernacular appearing in current dictionaries.
Very simple method I learnt back in the 1940:-
A like an Apple.
B like a bat
C like a cat
D like a dog etc etc
Somehow it worked for me.
Plus kids today can not tell you what 7 x 8 equals.
I do remembering asking someone as to why Aussie kids are not taught at school about Australian History and Geography .... His answer was ... If they need to know they can access it on Mr Google.
An he was an ex school teacher. ?????
Any wonder we are not at the top of the tree in international schooling.
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Saturday 6th of June 2020 09:20:10 PM
The days of the polymath are long gone. These days the best you can hope for is to know a little about a lot, or a lot about a little, but most of us have to be content with knowing a little about a little.
So what should our schools teach us? Should we really cram our heads with facts that serve no contemporary purpose? Should we learn about Shakespeare who wrote literature in some archaic language, or should we study contemporary authors who write about the world we live in today?
The sad fact about English is that it spawns an entire school subject which we refer to as "spelling". If the language had been standardized by intelligent forefathers, it would now be phonetic, or at least bound by strict rules, thereby obviating the need for the years of rote learning that constitutes "spelling". In that respect it is somewhat like Chinese where several formative years are wasted learning several thousand characters when two dozen are all that are necessary. Hangul (Korean) is a language that was designed from the ground up. Hangul characters may look like hieroglyphs to a Westerner, but there are only two dozen of them, and these can be learned in an afternoon.
There are many thing children should be taught over 13 years of schooling but over and above everything else no child should leave school without being able to read and write basic English. This is a critical requirement in modern society and it damn well should be a *right* for all children in a developed country.
Facts: education is about much more than facts but unless one appreciates many facts it is impossible use logical reasoning.
Shakespeare has stood the test of time and proven his value, current authors sometimes have good and valid things to say, sometimes they write crap - choices need to be made without political or social prejudice.
Phonetic: God but I hope not! :) Listen to Glaswegian, ****ney, Fen and Welsh accents and then tell me native English can be phonetic... cobber....
It seems to me that Political Correctness including the irrational desire for all children (people) to be equal, and/or treated equally, has done a great disservice to education. Children, of course, have different strengths and weaknesses and need to be educated accordingly ie. streamed. And disruptive children should be removed from the class - one child should not be allowed to damage the education of 30 other children. Educate the disruptive children separately.
Edit:
It would seem the idiot who wrote the "naughty word" software for this forum needs much more education: the deleted word above is Coc.kney - a culture of London.
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Sunday 7th of June 2020 01:04:16 PM
As for facts, I agree that there has to be a balance between the learning of facts and the development of reasoning skills. So where do you draw the line? To use a simple example, should school teach you how to multiply and divide, or how to use a calculator? Obviously the answer is the former, but not all choices are as clear cut. In my professional work I relied on rote knowledge for the simple stuff, and technical references for the more complicated stuff. However, in both cases I still understood how to derive complicated formulae from first principles, even if I had to refer to a text book to refresh my memory.
BTW, I now use Google's calculator for many of my calculations, but that's because it is far superior to alternative tools.
The thing I do find hard though is people that don't break up the post, as put in paragraphs. I don't care if they should be there or not, just break the lines up. I find it hard to read otherwise and many times don't bother even trying to read.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Coc.kney is a dialect, it's been around since the 1500's. Arguably, the lifestyle and customs of real Coc.kneys can also be considered a culture. Many Australian words and phrases are directly derived from Coc.kney. As for deciding who are the worst exponents of the English language, well they're in plentiful supply in every English speaking country, to make any judgement would be purely subjective. ALL English speaking countries and their many regions display great diversity in the language. Accent, dialect, hybrid phrases, colloquialisms etc. all make up a 'local' spoken English (which has nothing to do with written English). The English language has evolved in Britain over a couple of thousand years with the original influencers being foreign invaders and interlopers i.e. Romans, Vikings, Saxons and Celts et al. It's no surprise that so many different accents and dialects exist in a such geographically small land. Most ancient countries of Europe, Asia, Africa etc. have similar diversity in their languages. Try speaking French in a 'Parisian' dialect to a local in Bayonne and see how far you get. Indigenous Australia is a classic with around 300 Aboriginal languages and many can't understand each other. Happens everywhere.
As for what should be taught in schools: Literacy - the 3 R's without phoney phonetics, then the facts as they relate to subjects with appropriate use of technology. Teachers should leave their personal political beliefs at home, instead encouraging and recognising achievement which would better help kids prepare for survival in the real world.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Monday 8th of June 2020 09:54:16 AM
ISTM that the worst damage to the English language was inflicted by the Norman invaders. They brought with them a written language where one in three letters is not pronounced. I guess one saving grace of English is that it didn't develop an excessively complicated grammar, unlike Germanic or Slavic grammars.
AISI, language is anarchical and illogical in many ways. The Koreans designed their alphabet in 1446 and it is one of the few cases of intelligent intervention, Esperanto being another, albeit unsuccessful.
Not wanting to go off topic
But...
Coming from uupp norff of the Old Dart, in the nineteen sixties
I actually thought that everyone in Australia, was a Coc.ney, due to the Aussie accent, being very similar
Now that we've become a "global" society, I expect that dialects will slowly fade away, and English will absorb more input from other sources. For example, we can already see Americanisms creeping into British English. It could be argued that Americans have improved the language by simplifying its spelling in a logical way (eg color versus colour).
In fact the etymology of words such as "colour", "rancour" and "valour" is confirmation, in my mind at least, of just how stupid people really are.
We see that each word is of Latin origin, with sensible phonetic spelling -- color, rancor, valor. Then the French got hold of them, added a silent "u", and inflicted them upon the English.
valour
ORIGIN
Middle English (denoting worth derived from personal qualities or rank): via Old French from late Latin valor, from valere 'be strong'.
colour
ORIGIN
Middle English: from Old French colour (noun), colourer (verb), from Latin color (noun), colorare (verb).
rancour
ORIGIN
Middle English: via Old French from late Latin rancor 'rankness' (in the Vulgate 'bitter grudge'), related to Latin rancidus 'stinking'.
Dialects are largely inherent, sometimes adopted, but they will be around (in all languages possessing multiple dialects) for way longer than we could ever guess. English and other languages may continue to morph slightly as time goes on and as new words are invented by younger generations. English is still the widest spoken language globally (and the international language of aviation) and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Heaven forbid we should try to create a global language based purely on simplicity and logic. Progress is one thing but individuality, character, culture and history are vitally important to humans. Esperanto was a fanciful theory that died before it started, again no one wants a world that bland and sterile.
Absolutely! Well said.
Di
And the death of commonsense doesn't help.....
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 9th of June 2020 03:55:46 PM