Well I spoke to Old about a GVM upgrade. Well if we need it, Get it done was D wife's imput.
Oh what a feeling 3800GVM. I took your wisdom on board and used Google to search for the answer yesterday.
I need your help to get the right set up.
I was reading yesterday that they (NSW Roads & Maritime had put a blanket ban on them (GVM's), and of the 20th April 2020 had withdraw the same letter.) allowing them now on existing tow rigs as I read.
Is this true.
I rang the nice people at Lovells this morning.The answer was yes you can. Soooo I asked some Questions Re my 200 GX. I don't want a lift kit. I would like to keep mine the same Hight, as both of us have Hips that are wearing. The reply, 2 inches higher.
Q. Is there another choice.
Can we keep our coil right air bags.Yes not a problem.
Will the ride comfort be the same. About the same was his response.
Do we get a new compliance plate to say we are 3800 GVM. NO. No we supply a certificate of compliance. and instructions.What for.
Is This correct, and will this be ok in other states.
I Need your help on this.
The Cost. $3500 fitted I think he said. + An Engineers inspection, They can arrange. About $1000.
Does this sound about right
My GX's Kerb weight 2640kg, GVM 3350kg Same as the GXL,VX, Sahara. And again the GCM 6850kg across the board.
I also read that most 4 x 4 loaded with Bull bar, winch, set of draws in back, Cargo barrier and other after market gear makes these cars illegal GVM before the hit the road proper.
For this reason the NSW people have retracted the ban on the GVM's, As I read it.
I want a total in house job done the same day.
We are outer Sydney area.
Your help I would appreciate.
Grey (Jim)
-- Edited by Old and Grey on Thursday 18th of June 2020 09:59:11 PM
-- Edited by Old and Grey on Thursday 18th of June 2020 10:03:18 PM
-- Edited by Old and Grey on Thursday 18th of June 2020 10:04:49 PM
yobarr said
01:11 AM Jun 19, 2020
Hi Jim.......The car's rear axle is the problem,and a GVM upgrade does little to help.Tomorrow I will explain.Cheers
Old and Grey said
08:54 AM Jun 19, 2020
Hi Yobarr,
Thanks for that. We need all the help and understanding of the upgrade. We have to do it for the long term. The tow truck is part of our journey.
We are looking forward to all the help we can muster. We have come this far, We will look over the next hill.
Keep safe everyone.
Old & Grey
Rob Driver said
09:16 AM Jun 19, 2020
Hi Old and Grey.
It is Rob Driver here. In the past on this forum there has been many topics with regard to your question. Most of the topics have been locked after input from some turns into an argument. This situation has arisen in most cases from a member who claims he knows more than the engineers who provide these upgrades. This same member has been removed from other forums for his continual carry on with regards to these upgrades being not approved.
After the last topic which became heated was locked by admin I contacted Lovells Springs to have the whole situation cleared up. I did it and contacted the admin on this forum and was advised that the subject was going to be broached in the newsletter section of the site. I guess that the Covid situation may have delayed that publication with more pressing topics being evident.
Anyway here is an email that I sent to Lovells asking them to help.
I will put the reply in the next post as it is quite a detailed explanation.
Taking the advice of a forum expert is fraught with danger and I suggest you contact the secondary manufacturer for documentation in writing BEFORE you have them undertake any modifications to your vehicle.
Here is the email with his reply to follow.
Attn Mike Davidson Sales and Marketing Manager.
Good day Mike,
My name is Rob Driver and I am considering updating my 200 series to be able to tow a 4t caravan. My vehicle is currently sporting your 3800gvm upgrade which I had completed in 2018. My thoughts were could I have this vehicle upgraded to tow a new heavier van? Or my other option is to trade this vehicle on a new one and have it upgraded by your company. However after reading views from others I am concerned that their claims of not being able to tow 4t as per your advertising. These contrary views are being posted currently on a forum called The Grey Nomads. Here is a link to the current thread regarding this modification as posted as a question from another person considering this upgrade.
There are currently three pages of banter in relation to wether the upgrade is legal and safe.
Before I make any decision can you please clarify my concerns being that I will be able to legally tow a caravan weighing 4t. and further to that can you clarify that this combination will be safe as well.
I may be reached on this above email address at any time.
Thank you and regards,
Rob Driver
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 19th of June 2020 09:43:10 AM
Rob Driver said
09:25 AM Jun 19, 2020
And the reply.
.........
Attn Mike Davidson Sales and Marketing Manager.
Good day Mike,
My name is Rob Driver and I am considering updating my 200 series to be able to tow a 4t caravan.
My vehicle is currently sporting your 3800gvm upgrade which I had completed in 2018.
My thoughts were could I have this vehicle upgraded to tow a new heavier van?
Or my other option is to trade this vehicle on a new one and have it upgraded by your company.
However after reading views from others I am concerned that their claims of not being able to tow 4t as per your advertising.
These contrary views are being posted currently on a forum called
The Grey Nomads.
Here is a link to the current thread regarding this modification as posted as a question from another person considering this upgrade.
There are currently three pages of banter in relation to wether the upgrade is legal and safe.
Before I make any decision can you please clarify my concerns being that I will be able to legally tow a caravan weighing 4t. and further to that can you clarify that this combination will be safe as well.
I may be reached on this above email address at any time.
Thank you and regards,
Rob Driver
..........................
Here is Mike Davidsons reply.
Hi Rob,
We can assure you that our 4000kg Towing Upgrades (BTC Upgrades) for the LC200 are legal and are Approved SSM Manufacturer Ratings by the Federal Dept of Transport and Infrastructure.
Our Road Vehicle Descriptor for 4000kg BTC Upgrades can be publically searched here:
4000kg GVM UPGRADE- Constant Load Carrying kit
(Axle masses above 1500kg front and 1600kg rear)
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- GVM UPGRADE 4000kg- FEDERAL COMPLIANCE (Pre-registration vehicles)
Federal Compliance: Recommended Retail price $4000.00 +GST. (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for GVM Upgrades and Federal Compliance Plate).
OR
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- GVM UPGRADE 4000kg- STATE COMPLIANCE (Post-registration/In- Service vehicles)
State Compliance: Recommended Retail price $4500.00 +GST. (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for GVM Upgrades and Engineers inspection and State Transport documents/compliance).
IMPORTANT INFORMATION
TFR-121 OR TFR-123 FRONT COIL SPRINGS CAN BE SPECIFIED BASED ON THE FOLLOWING:
We suggest having your vehicle weighed by a Lovells Authorised Fitter prior to ordering.
- TFR-121- Vehicle has minimal load bearing front accessories and axle capacity is less than 1500kg
- TFR-123- Vehicle has load bearing accessories such as steel bull bar, winch, dual batteries etc and axle capacity is greater than 1500kg
TRR-122HD OR TRR-122HDAV REAR COIL SPRINGS CAN BE SPECIFIED BASED ON THE FOLLOWING:
We suggest having your vehicle weighed by a Lovells Authorised Fitter prior to ordering.
- TRR-122HD- Vehicle has minimal load bearing rear accessories and axle capacity is less than 1600kg
- TRR-122HDAV- Vehicle has load bearing accessories and its primary use is for towing. For axle capacities greater than 1600kg. (Take ball weight into consideration and add to axle mass).
Attached is our Overview for the 200 Series GVM Upgrade and our uprated axle loading capacities for the 4000kg kit.
The Original Equipment maximum braked towing capacity for example on the LC200 is 3500kg. This doesnt increase nor decrease when our GVM Upgrade is fitted, it remains at 3500kg.
The new vehicle GVM becomes 4000kg (LC200) as noted in Lovells SSM (Second Stage of Manufacture for GVM Upgrade)
The factor that comes into play is the ball weight of the towed apparatus. Whatever the ball weight is, must be subtracted from the vehicles GVM & GCM.
Therefore, the vehicle can still tow up to OE 3500kg. If the ball weight is 200kg, the vehicles maximum GVM available (with a Lovells GVM Upgrade kit fitted) will now be 3800kg.
Expect approx. 50-70mm lift over OE, dependant on weight and location of accessories fitted.
3800kg GVM UPGRADE
(Axle masses below 1500kg front and 1600kg rear)
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- GVM UPGRADE 3800kg- FEDERAL COMPLIANCE
Federal Compliance: Recommended Retail price $3500.00 +GST. (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for GVM Upgrades and Federal Compliance Plate).
OR
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- GVM UPGRADE 3800kg- STATE COMPLIANCE
State Compliance: Recommended Retail price $3800.00 +GST. (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for GVM Upgrades and Engineers inspection and State Transport documents/compliance).
IMPORTANT INFORMATION
FOR STATE COMPLIANCE ORDERS, THE VIN MUST BE PRE-CHECKED/CROSS REFERENCED BY LOVELLS TO VERIFY IT HAS A GVM UPGRADE FITTED PRIOR TO ORDER ACCEPTANCE/PROCESSING.
TRR-122HDAV REAR COIL SPRINGS CAN BE SUBSTITUTED BASED ON THE FOLLOWING:
- Vehicle is close to rear axle loading capacity of 2000kg
- Ball weight is greater than 300kg
- Vehicle s primary use is for towing at maximum capacity
(This is a case by case option and should be asked prior to order placement).
Attached is our Overview for the 200 Series GVM Upgrade and our uprated axle loading capacities.
The Original Equipment maximum braked towing capacity for example on the LC200 is 3500kg. This doesnt increase nor decrease when our GVM Upgrade is fitted, it remains at 3500kg.
The new vehicle GVM becomes 3800kg (LC200) as noted in Lovells SSM (Second Stage of Manufacture for GVM Upgrade)
The factor that comes into play is the ball weight of the towed apparatus. Whatever the ball weight is, must be subtracted from the vehicles GVM.
Therefore, the vehicle can still tow up to OE 3500kg. If the ball weight is 200kg, the vehicles maximum GVM available (with a Lovells GVM Upgrade kit fitted) will now be 3600kg for the LC200.
Whereas, when a Lovells BTC Upgrade is fitted, the vehicle can then tow up to 4000kg. Yet, if the ball weight remains at 200kg, the vehicles maximum available GVM (with a Lovells GVM Upgrade kit fitted) will still be 3600kg for the LC200).
Expect approx. 50-70mm lift over OE, dependant on weight and location of accessories fitted.
WHY DO VEHICLES REQUIRE BTC (Braked Towing Capacity) UPGRADES?- BTC Upgrades are only available with Lovells 3800kg GVM Upgrade Kits
The solution for owners/managers of Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon vehicles who have a need to tow to 4000kg (up from 3500kg standard Braked Towing Capacity), while at the same time meeting the practical and documentary compliance requirements of Work Safety, Police Licensing, Insurance, Lessors and Fleet Managers. This kit is complianced by the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government and Federal Compliance kits come complete with a Second Stage Manufacturers compliance plate.
Federal Compliance (pre-registration) and State Compliance (post-registration) BTC Upgrades can only be fitted to vehicles fitted with a Lovells 3800kg GVM Upgrade.
Lovells Toyota Landcruiser LC200 GVM Upgrade kits have been tested and approved for Full Volume Second Stage Manufacture to comply with ADR35/05 ESC (Electronic Stability Control) Sine with Dwell verification and are suitable for KDSS and non-KDSS variants.
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- BTC UPGRADE 4000kg
Stage 1 Kit- 3500kg-3700kg
Recommended Retail Price $3,000.00 ea +GST- (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for BTC Upgrades and Engineers inspection and State Transport documents).
Kit includes a 50mm height adjustable fabricated tongue and Lovells All Terrain Hitch.
(Ball weight must not exceed 350kg)
Not compatible with most weight distribution systems.
Stage 2 Kit- 3500kg-4000kg
Recommended Retail Price $3,900.00 ea +GST- (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for BTC Upgrades and Engineers inspection and State Transport documents).
Kit includes a Lovells 1200lb Weight Distribution Hitch system (WDH), cast head, drop shank with 95mm height adjustment and Lovells All Terrain Hitch.
(Ball weight must not exceed 400kg)
Please note that the Lovells BTC Upgrade can only be complied if a Lovells GVM Upgrade is fitted to the vehicle.
Lovells BTC Upgrade tongue/hitch, drop shank/hitch can only be attached to the Toyota OE Towbar and is not compliant for aftermarket tow bars.
Warranty Lovells Suspension and Towing Kits
Coil Springs: 5 year/unlimited km from date of fitment
Leaf Springs: 5 year/unlimited km from date of fitment
Shock Absorbers: 3 year/70,000km whichever occurs first
Shock Absorbers (Platinum Series): 4 year/100,000km whichever occurs first
Suspension Components: 2 year/40,000km whichever occurs first
Towing Components: 2 year/40,000km whichever occurs first
Please note that the lead time for Upgrade Kits will be approximately 1-2 working weeks from receipt of official Order Form from the Authorised Fitter.
Normally our Authorised Fitter will need the vehicle for a day for modification/inspection and brake testing.
Lovells nominate GCM capacity figures under the Federal Legislation as a Second Stage Manufacturer and can legally increase GCM over Original Equipment figures for Federal Compliance GVM Upgrades (pre-registration).
Lovells 3800kg & 4000kg GVM and 4000kg towing capacity. GCM Revision to 7800kg if modified prior to first registration. If modified once registered the GCM remains at OE specification for QLD vehicles.
Unfortunately, QLD, WA and NT no longer allow a revised GCM beyond that of the Original Equipment/First Stage Manufacturer specification for State Compliance vehicles (in-service/post registration)
There has been some confusion in the industry in relation to the regulation of gross combination mass (GCM) upgrades.
Lovells has been working at an industry level to seek to clarify this confusion and will continue to do so.
In the meantime, Lovells wishes to confirm its understanding of the regulatory position as it stands at the time of writing this statement.
Pre-registration GCM upgrades
A vehicles GCM is first nominated by the original manufacturer (OEM).
There are various organisations, known in the industry as second stage manufacturers (SSMs), that are frequently engaged to upgrade vehicle capacity, prior to first registration. Some SSMs, like Lovells, update the GCM to reflect the change in capacity as a result of the upgrade.
Lovells believes that when there has been an upgrade to vehicle capacity pre-registration, it is important for any change to the vehicles GCM that has resulted from the upgrade to be noted. Lovells believes this is important for numerous reasons, including for accuracy and safety.
Lovells understands that an updated GCM may be specified by a manufacturer and believes it is good practice for manufacturers to do so.
Who is a manufacturer?
The term manufacturer has a clear definition in the Australian Design Rules (ADRs), in clause 3 of Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule - Definitions and Vehicle Categories) 2005.
The ADRs say that a manufacturer of a vehicle is the person who accepts responsibility for compliance with the ADRs in relation to that vehicle and is issued a compliance plate approval certificate for that vehicle.
The ADRs do not differentiate between OEMs and SSMs.
Based on the definition in the ADRs, Lovells will be considered to be a manufacturer of a vehicle if it accepts responsibility for compliance with the ADRs in relation to that vehicle and is issued a compliance plate approval certificate for that vehicle. Lovells accepts this responsibility as part of its GCM upgrade packages.
Has there been a recent change to the law regulating pre-registration GCM upgrades?
There has been no recent change to the law regulating pre-registration vehicle upgrades.
Lovells understands that the longstanding position for many years has been that while the Federal Department does not assess, endorse or approve GCM upgrades, it equally does not restrict or prohibit GCM upgrades. Lovells understands this longstanding position has not changed.
Importantly, this means that:
· Vehicles that Lovells has previously modified are legal in all States and Territories.
· Lovells is permitted to plate vehicles with gross vehicle mass (GVM) upgrades and towing capacity upgrades under the approved RVD (as stated in Lovells SSM approvals and as noted on current RVDs).
Regards,
Mike Davison
General Manager
Lovells Automotive Systems
Sales and Engineering (Sydney)
Unit 2, 25 Badgally Rd, Campbelltown
NSW 2560 Australia
Important Message: The contents of this message may be privileged and
confidential. Any unauthorised use of the contents is expressly prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please advise us by email and
delete the message (including attachments).
Thank you.
.....................................
Here is my reply to Mike Davidsons email of his answer to me.
Good morning Mike,
Thank you for the detailed information.
You have certainly clarified it for me and given me the opportunity to now consider the 4t BTC upgrade.
I wanted to return to the above mentioned forum and provide the details to those concerned.
I note the clause at the bottom of your detailed information stating that the information above may be privileged or confidential and as such I wonder wether I have permission to quote the above reply from you to me for clarification on the forum.
Kind Regards
Rob Driver
............................
Here is Mike Davidsons reply to me.
Hi Rob,
Happy for you to share the information sent.
Regards,
Mike Davison
General Manager
Lovells Automotive Systems
Sales and Engineering (Sydney)
Unit 2, 25 Badgally Rd, Campbelltown
NSW 2560 Australia
It is a lot to have to wade through but I found Lovells and their representatives to be very helpful when I had my 200 upgraded to 3800gvm. The details are in the above email but also include the 4000 upgrade as well.
My suggestion is to go and visit the Lovells workshop which is closest to you and talk to them.
I might add that there are other secondary manufacturers that do this or similar work and if you are shopping to a price just be assured that all new approvals are in writing and will be recognised by your state registration body. These modifications with Lovells are applicable Australia wide while you are the owner and are travelling within another jurisdiction.
I hope these details put to rest the constant stream of mis information that comes up on here from time to time.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 19th of June 2020 09:46:21 AM
Craig1 said
10:06 AM Jun 19, 2020
Old and Grey, There are a set of fold down side steps available, have a look at Clearview Site, excellent for bad back etc. Our Peddars 3720 GVM upgrade lifted gxl by almost 50mm. It gives a rear axle rating of 2020kg. Sorry they are POWERBOARDS
-- Edited by Craig1 on Friday 19th of June 2020 04:51:46 PM
yobarr said
10:14 AM Jun 19, 2020
Old and Grey wrote:
Hi Yobarr,
Thanks for that. We need all the help and understanding of the upgrade. We have to do it for the long term. The tow truck is part of our journey.
We are looking forward to all the help we can muster. We have come this far, We will look over the next hill.
Keep safe everyone.
Old & Grey
Hi Jim....I have sent a brief PM,and later today I will again contact you via PM.Being a new member,you may not know how to access your messages? Up in the top right of your computer screen you will see your member name.Any PM notifications will appear under that name,so simply click on them.Cheers
yobarr said
11:29 AM Jun 19, 2020
More astute members will possibly have noticed that none of my assertions regarding the limitations of GVM upgrades on this model has been disputed by the very company that does these GVM upgrades? And the wisdom of using a ball weight of only 200kg whilst doing calculations involving towing 4000kg,or even 3500kg,surely needs to be questioned? It needs to be noted that never have I said such GVM upgrades are "Not approved".Never have I said such upgrades are "illegal".Never have I said that such upgrades are not "valid". What I have stated is the indesputable fact that such GVM figures can never be reached whilst the car is SAFELY towing a PIG trailer,with the generally accepted 10% towball weight. There is little doubt that these upgrades are legal,approved and valid,but many people fo not understand the limitations of these upgrades.These are the people I always will help.Of most concern is that,with a 3800kg GVM upgrade,rear axle capacity is increased from 1950kg to 2000kg.....a miserable 50kg.Why would you bother?Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 20th of June 2020 08:40:23 AM
Old and Grey said
09:00 PM Jun 19, 2020
bentaxlebabe wrote:
Old and Grey.
It is a lot to have to wade through but I found Lovells and their representatives to be very helpful when I had my 200 upgraded to 3800gvm. The details are in the above email but also include the 4000 upgrade as well.
My suggestion is to go and visit the Lovells workshop which is closest to you and talk to them.
I might add that there are other secondary manufacturers that do this or similar work and if you are shopping to a price just be assured that all new approvals are in writing and will be recognised by your state registration body. These modifications with Lovells are applicable Australia wide while you are the owner and are travelling within another jurisdiction.
I hope these details put to rest the constant stream of mis information that comes up on here from time to time.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 19th of June 2020 09:46:21 AM
Hi Rob,
Well your not wrong.
I Read the lot, over and over. Then I asked D wife to do same.
Due to this Covid thing, we have time on our side. So we will take on board your above advice, and visit on site.
Hi Yobarr,
Thankyou for your offer, we respect everyone's veiw, and look forward to a happy outcome.
It never entered our minds how Daunting this exercise would be.
We will do the right thing, safety comes first always.
Hi Everyone.
Well I spoke to Old about a GVM upgrade. Well if we need it, Get it done was D wife's imput.
Oh what a feeling 3800GVM. I took your wisdom on board and used Google to search for the answer yesterday.
I need your help to get the right set up.
I was reading yesterday that they (NSW Roads & Maritime had put a blanket ban on them (GVM's), and of the 20th April 2020 had withdraw the same letter.) allowing them now on existing tow rigs as I read.
Is this true.
I rang the nice people at Lovells this morning.The answer was yes you can. Soooo I asked some Questions Re my 200 GX. I don't want a lift kit. I would like to keep mine the same Hight, as both of us have Hips that are wearing. The reply, 2 inches higher.
Q. Is there another choice.
Can we keep our coil right air bags.Yes not a problem.
Will the ride comfort be the same. About the same was his response.
Do we get a new compliance plate to say we are 3800 GVM. NO. No we supply a certificate of compliance.
and instructions.What for.
Is This correct, and will this be ok in other states.
I Need your help on this.
The Cost. $3500 fitted I think he said. + An Engineers inspection, They can arrange. About $1000.
Does this sound about right
My GX's Kerb weight 2640kg, GVM 3350kg Same as the GXL,VX, Sahara. And again the GCM 6850kg across the board.
I also read that most 4 x 4 loaded with Bull bar, winch, set of draws in back, Cargo barrier and other after market gear makes these cars illegal GVM before the hit the road proper.
For this reason the NSW people have retracted the ban on the GVM's, As I read it.
I want a total in house job done the same day.
We are outer Sydney area.
Your help I would appreciate.
Grey (Jim)
-- Edited by Old and Grey on Thursday 18th of June 2020 09:59:11 PM
-- Edited by Old and Grey on Thursday 18th of June 2020 10:03:18 PM
-- Edited by Old and Grey on Thursday 18th of June 2020 10:04:49 PM
Hi Jim.......The car's rear axle is the problem,and a GVM upgrade does little to help.Tomorrow I will explain.Cheers
Hi Yobarr,
Thanks for that. We need all the help and understanding of the upgrade. We have to do it for the long term. The tow truck is part of our journey.
We are looking forward to all the help we can muster. We have come this far, We will look over the next hill.
Keep safe everyone.
Old & Grey
Hi Old and Grey.
It is Rob Driver here.
In the past on this forum there has been many topics with regard to your question.
Most of the topics have been locked after input from some turns into an argument.
This situation has arisen in most cases from a member who claims he knows more than the engineers who provide these upgrades.
This same member has been removed from other forums for his continual carry on with regards to these upgrades being not approved.
After the last topic which became heated was locked by admin I contacted Lovells Springs to have the whole situation cleared up.
I did it and contacted the admin on this forum and was advised that the subject was going to be broached in the newsletter section of the site.
I guess that the Covid situation may have delayed that publication with more pressing topics being evident.
Anyway here is an email that I sent to Lovells asking them to help.
I will put the reply in the next post as it is quite a detailed explanation.
Taking the advice of a forum expert is fraught with danger and I suggest you contact the secondary manufacturer for documentation in writing BEFORE you have them undertake any modifications to your vehicle.
Here is the email with his reply to follow.
Attn Mike Davidson Sales and Marketing Manager.
Good day Mike,
My name is Rob Driver and I am considering updating my 200 series to be able to tow a 4t caravan.
My vehicle is currently sporting your 3800gvm upgrade which I had completed in 2018.
My thoughts were could I have this vehicle upgraded to tow a new heavier van?
Or my other option is to trade this vehicle on a new one and have it upgraded by your company.
However after reading views from others I am concerned that their claims of not being able to tow 4t as per your advertising.
These contrary views are being posted currently on a forum called
The Grey Nomads.
Here is a link to the current thread regarding this modification as posted as a question from another person considering this upgrade.
thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t66374142/average-payload-question/
There are currently three pages of banter in relation to wether the upgrade is legal and safe.
Before I make any decision can you please clarify my concerns being that I will be able to legally tow a caravan weighing 4t. and further to that can you clarify that this combination will be safe as well.
I may be reached on this above email address at any time.
Thank you and regards,
Rob Driver
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 19th of June 2020 09:43:10 AM
.........
Attn Mike Davidson Sales and Marketing Manager.
Good day Mike,
My name is Rob Driver and I am considering updating my 200 series to be able to tow a 4t caravan.
My vehicle is currently sporting your 3800gvm upgrade which I had completed in 2018.
My thoughts were could I have this vehicle upgraded to tow a new heavier van?
Or my other option is to trade this vehicle on a new one and have it upgraded by your company.
However after reading views from others I am concerned that their claims of not being able to tow 4t as per your advertising.
These contrary views are being posted currently on a forum called
The Grey Nomads.
Here is a link to the current thread regarding this modification as posted as a question from another person considering this upgrade.
thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t66374142/average-payload-question/
There are currently three pages of banter in relation to wether the upgrade is legal and safe.
Before I make any decision can you please clarify my concerns being that I will be able to legally tow a caravan weighing 4t. and further to that can you clarify that this combination will be safe as well.
I may be reached on this above email address at any time.
Thank you and regards,
Rob Driver
..........................
Here is Mike Davidsons reply.
Hi Rob,
We can assure you that our 4000kg Towing Upgrades (BTC Upgrades) for the LC200 are legal and are Approved SSM Manufacturer Ratings by the Federal Dept of Transport and Infrastructure.
Our Road Vehicle Descriptor for 4000kg BTC Upgrades can be publically searched here:
rvcs.dotars.gov.au/perl/40257_1190937_RVD_06Sep2016083402.cmd
Alternatively you can contact the following Federal Agency for Clarification on our Towing Upgrades.
rvcs@infrastructure.gov.au
Please find details as follows for our 3800kg and 4000kg GVM Upgrades available for the LC200.
APPROVALS
40257-1259232- Toyota LC200 Diesel- 7 & 8 Seater (GXL, VX & Sahara)
40257-1259231- Toyota LC200 Petrol- 7 & 8 Seater (GXL, VX & Sahara)
46734-1259223- Toyota LC200 Diesel- 5 Seater (GX)
4000kg GVM UPGRADE- Constant Load Carrying kit
(Axle masses above 1500kg front and 1600kg rear)
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- GVM UPGRADE 4000kg- FEDERAL COMPLIANCE (Pre-registration vehicles)
Federal Compliance: Recommended Retail price $4000.00 +GST. (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for GVM Upgrades and Federal Compliance Plate).
OR
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- GVM UPGRADE 4000kg- STATE COMPLIANCE (Post-registration/In- Service vehicles)
State Compliance: Recommended Retail price $4500.00 +GST. (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for GVM Upgrades and Engineers inspection and State Transport documents/compliance).
IMPORTANT INFORMATION
TFR-121 OR TFR-123 FRONT COIL SPRINGS CAN BE SPECIFIED BASED ON THE FOLLOWING:
We suggest having your vehicle weighed by a Lovells Authorised Fitter prior to ordering.
- TFR-121- Vehicle has minimal load bearing front accessories and axle capacity is less than 1500kg
- TFR-123- Vehicle has load bearing accessories such as steel bull bar, winch, dual batteries etc and axle capacity is greater than 1500kg
TRR-122HD OR TRR-122HDAV REAR COIL SPRINGS CAN BE SPECIFIED BASED ON THE FOLLOWING:
We suggest having your vehicle weighed by a Lovells Authorised Fitter prior to ordering.
- TRR-122HD- Vehicle has minimal load bearing rear accessories and axle capacity is less than 1600kg
- TRR-122HDAV- Vehicle has load bearing accessories and its primary use is for towing. For axle capacities greater than 1600kg. (Take ball weight into consideration and add to axle mass).
Attached is our Overview for the 200 Series GVM Upgrade and our uprated axle loading capacities for the 4000kg kit.
The Original Equipment maximum braked towing capacity for example on the LC200 is 3500kg. This doesnt increase nor decrease when our GVM Upgrade is fitted, it remains at 3500kg.
The new vehicle GVM becomes 4000kg (LC200) as noted in Lovells SSM (Second Stage of Manufacture for GVM Upgrade)
The factor that comes into play is the ball weight of the towed apparatus. Whatever the ball weight is, must be subtracted from the vehicles GVM & GCM.
Therefore, the vehicle can still tow up to OE 3500kg. If the ball weight is 200kg, the vehicles maximum GVM available (with a Lovells GVM Upgrade kit fitted) will now be 3800kg.
Expect approx. 50-70mm lift over OE, dependant on weight and location of accessories fitted.
3800kg GVM UPGRADE
(Axle masses below 1500kg front and 1600kg rear)
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- GVM UPGRADE 3800kg- FEDERAL COMPLIANCE
Federal Compliance: Recommended Retail price $3500.00 +GST. (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for GVM Upgrades and Federal Compliance Plate).
OR
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- GVM UPGRADE 3800kg- STATE COMPLIANCE
State Compliance: Recommended Retail price $3800.00 +GST. (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for GVM Upgrades and Engineers inspection and State Transport documents/compliance).
IMPORTANT INFORMATION
FOR STATE COMPLIANCE ORDERS, THE VIN MUST BE PRE-CHECKED/CROSS REFERENCED BY LOVELLS TO VERIFY IT HAS A GVM UPGRADE FITTED PRIOR TO ORDER ACCEPTANCE/PROCESSING.
TRR-122HDAV REAR COIL SPRINGS CAN BE SUBSTITUTED BASED ON THE FOLLOWING:
- Vehicle is close to rear axle loading capacity of 2000kg
- Ball weight is greater than 300kg
- Vehicle s primary use is for towing at maximum capacity
(This is a case by case option and should be asked prior to order placement).
Attached is our Overview for the 200 Series GVM Upgrade and our uprated axle loading capacities.
The Original Equipment maximum braked towing capacity for example on the LC200 is 3500kg. This doesnt increase nor decrease when our GVM Upgrade is fitted, it remains at 3500kg.
The new vehicle GVM becomes 3800kg (LC200) as noted in Lovells SSM (Second Stage of Manufacture for GVM Upgrade)
The factor that comes into play is the ball weight of the towed apparatus. Whatever the ball weight is, must be subtracted from the vehicles GVM.
Therefore, the vehicle can still tow up to OE 3500kg. If the ball weight is 200kg, the vehicles maximum GVM available (with a Lovells GVM Upgrade kit fitted) will now be 3600kg for the LC200.
Whereas, when a Lovells BTC Upgrade is fitted, the vehicle can then tow up to 4000kg. Yet, if the ball weight remains at 200kg, the vehicles maximum available GVM (with a Lovells GVM Upgrade kit fitted) will still be 3600kg for the LC200).
Expect approx. 50-70mm lift over OE, dependant on weight and location of accessories fitted.
WHY DO VEHICLES REQUIRE BTC (Braked Towing Capacity) UPGRADES?- BTC Upgrades are only available with Lovells 3800kg GVM Upgrade Kits
The solution for owners/managers of Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon vehicles who have a need to tow to 4000kg (up from 3500kg standard Braked Towing Capacity), while at the same time meeting the practical and documentary compliance requirements of Work Safety, Police Licensing, Insurance, Lessors and Fleet Managers. This kit is complianced by the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government and Federal Compliance kits come complete with a Second Stage Manufacturers compliance plate.
Federal Compliance (pre-registration) and State Compliance (post-registration) BTC Upgrades can only be fitted to vehicles fitted with a Lovells 3800kg GVM Upgrade.
Lovells Toyota Landcruiser LC200 GVM Upgrade kits have been tested and approved for Full Volume Second Stage Manufacture to comply with ADR35/05 ESC (Electronic Stability Control) Sine with Dwell verification and are suitable for KDSS and non-KDSS variants.
Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon- BTC UPGRADE 4000kg
Stage 1 Kit- 3500kg-3700kg
Recommended Retail Price $3,000.00 ea +GST- (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for BTC Upgrades and Engineers inspection and State Transport documents).
Kit includes a 50mm height adjustable fabricated tongue and Lovells All Terrain Hitch.
(Ball weight must not exceed 350kg)
Not compatible with most weight distribution systems.
Stage 2 Kit- 3500kg-4000kg
Recommended Retail Price $3,900.00 ea +GST- (this includes fitting by a Lovells Authorised Fitter for BTC Upgrades and Engineers inspection and State Transport documents).
Kit includes a Lovells 1200lb Weight Distribution Hitch system (WDH), cast head, drop shank with 95mm height adjustment and Lovells All Terrain Hitch.
(Ball weight must not exceed 400kg)
Please note that the Lovells BTC Upgrade can only be complied if a Lovells GVM Upgrade is fitted to the vehicle.
Lovells BTC Upgrade tongue/hitch, drop shank/hitch can only be attached to the Toyota OE Towbar and is not compliant for aftermarket tow bars.
Warranty Lovells Suspension and Towing Kits
Coil Springs: 5 year/unlimited km from date of fitment
Leaf Springs: 5 year/unlimited km from date of fitment
Shock Absorbers: 3 year/70,000km whichever occurs first
Shock Absorbers (Platinum Series): 4 year/100,000km whichever occurs first
Suspension Components: 2 year/40,000km whichever occurs first
Towing Components: 2 year/40,000km whichever occurs first
Please note that the lead time for Upgrade Kits will be approximately 1-2 working weeks from receipt of official Order Form from the Authorised Fitter.
Normally our Authorised Fitter will need the vehicle for a day for modification/inspection and brake testing.
Lovells nominate GCM capacity figures under the Federal Legislation as a Second Stage Manufacturer and can legally increase GCM over Original Equipment figures for Federal Compliance GVM Upgrades (pre-registration).
Lovells 3800kg & 4000kg GVM and 4000kg towing capacity. GCM Revision to 7800kg if modified prior to first registration. If modified once registered the GCM remains at OE specification for QLD vehicles.
Unfortunately, QLD, WA and NT no longer allow a revised GCM beyond that of the Original Equipment/First Stage Manufacturer specification for State Compliance vehicles (in-service/post registration)
There has been some confusion in the industry in relation to the regulation of gross combination mass (GCM) upgrades.
Lovells has been working at an industry level to seek to clarify this confusion and will continue to do so.
In the meantime, Lovells wishes to confirm its understanding of the regulatory position as it stands at the time of writing this statement.
Pre-registration GCM upgrades
A vehicles GCM is first nominated by the original manufacturer (OEM).
There are various organisations, known in the industry as second stage manufacturers (SSMs), that are frequently engaged to upgrade vehicle capacity, prior to first registration. Some SSMs, like Lovells, update the GCM to reflect the change in capacity as a result of the upgrade.
Lovells believes that when there has been an upgrade to vehicle capacity pre-registration, it is important for any change to the vehicles GCM that has resulted from the upgrade to be noted. Lovells believes this is important for numerous reasons, including for accuracy and safety.
Lovells understands that an updated GCM may be specified by a manufacturer and believes it is good practice for manufacturers to do so.
Who is a manufacturer?
The term manufacturer has a clear definition in the Australian Design Rules (ADRs), in clause 3 of Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule - Definitions and Vehicle Categories) 2005.
The ADRs say that a manufacturer of a vehicle is the person who accepts responsibility for compliance with the ADRs in relation to that vehicle and is issued a compliance plate approval certificate for that vehicle.
The ADRs do not differentiate between OEMs and SSMs.
Based on the definition in the ADRs, Lovells will be considered to be a manufacturer of a vehicle if it accepts responsibility for compliance with the ADRs in relation to that vehicle and is issued a compliance plate approval certificate for that vehicle. Lovells accepts this responsibility as part of its GCM upgrade packages.
Has there been a recent change to the law regulating pre-registration GCM upgrades?
There has been no recent change to the law regulating pre-registration vehicle upgrades.
Lovells understands that the longstanding position for many years has been that while the Federal Department does not assess, endorse or approve GCM upgrades, it equally does not restrict or prohibit GCM upgrades. Lovells understands this longstanding position has not changed.
Importantly, this means that:
· Vehicles that Lovells has previously modified are legal in all States and Territories.
· Lovells is permitted to plate vehicles with gross vehicle mass (GVM) upgrades and towing capacity upgrades under the approved RVD (as stated in Lovells SSM approvals and as noted on current RVDs).
Regards,
Mike Davison
General Manager
Lovells Automotive Systems
Sales and Engineering (Sydney)
Unit 2, 25 Badgally Rd, Campbelltown
NSW 2560 Australia
Warehouse (Sandgate)
3 Friesian Close, Sandgate NSW 2304 Australia
P: +612 9820 6800 F: +612 9820 6788
M: +61 421 709 727
E: miked@lovells.com.au
W: www.lovells.com.au
Important Message: The contents of this message may be privileged and
confidential. Any unauthorised use of the contents is expressly prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please advise us by email and
delete the message (including attachments).
Thank you.
.....................................
Here is my reply to Mike Davidsons email of his answer to me.
Good morning Mike,
Thank you for the detailed information.
You have certainly clarified it for me and given me the opportunity to now consider the 4t BTC upgrade.
I wanted to return to the above mentioned forum and provide the details to those concerned.
I note the clause at the bottom of your detailed information stating that the information above may be privileged or confidential and as such I wonder wether I have permission to quote the above reply from you to me for clarification on the forum.
Kind Regards
Rob Driver
............................
Here is Mike Davidsons reply to me.
Hi Rob,
Happy for you to share the information sent.
Regards,
Mike Davison
General Manager
Lovells Automotive Systems
Sales and Engineering (Sydney)
Unit 2, 25 Badgally Rd, Campbelltown
NSW 2560 Australia
Warehouse (Sandgate)
3 Friesian Close, Sandgate NSW 2304 Australia
P: +612 9820 6800 F: +612 9820 6788
M: +61 421 709 727
E: miked@lovells.com.au
..................
Kind Regards
Rob Driver
Old and Grey.
It is a lot to have to wade through but I found Lovells and their representatives to be very helpful when I had my 200 upgraded to 3800gvm.
The details are in the above email but also include the 4000 upgrade as well.
My suggestion is to go and visit the Lovells workshop which is closest to you and talk to them.
I might add that there are other secondary manufacturers that do this or similar work and if you are shopping to a price just be assured that all new approvals are in writing and will be recognised by your state registration body.
These modifications with Lovells are applicable Australia wide while you are the owner and are travelling within another jurisdiction.
I hope these details put to rest the constant stream of mis information that comes up on here from time to time.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 19th of June 2020 09:46:21 AM
Old and Grey,
There are a set of fold down side steps available, have a look at Clearview Site, excellent for bad back etc. Our Peddars 3720 GVM upgrade lifted gxl by almost 50mm.
It gives a rear axle rating of 2020kg. Sorry they are POWERBOARDS
https://www.clearviewaccessories.com.au/power-boards/
-- Edited by Craig1 on Friday 19th of June 2020 04:51:46 PM
Hi Jim....I have sent a brief PM,and later today I will again contact you via PM.Being a new member,you may not know how to access your messages? Up in the top right of your computer screen you will see your member name.Any PM notifications will appear under that name,so simply click on them.Cheers
More astute members will possibly have noticed that none of my assertions regarding the limitations of GVM upgrades on this model has been disputed by the very company that does these GVM upgrades? And the wisdom of using a ball weight of only 200kg whilst doing calculations involving towing 4000kg,or even 3500kg,surely needs to be questioned? It needs to be noted that never have I said such GVM upgrades are "Not approved".Never have I said such upgrades are "illegal".Never have I said that such upgrades are not "valid". What I have stated is the indesputable fact that such GVM figures can never be reached whilst the car is SAFELY towing a PIG trailer,with the generally accepted 10% towball weight. There is little doubt that these upgrades are legal,approved and valid,but many people fo not understand the limitations of these upgrades.These are the people I always will help.Of most concern is that,with a 3800kg GVM upgrade,rear axle capacity is increased from 1950kg to 2000kg.....a miserable 50kg.Why would you bother?Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 20th of June 2020 08:40:23 AM
Hi Rob,
Well your not wrong.
I Read the lot, over and over. Then I asked D wife to do same.
Due to this Covid thing, we have time on our side. So we will take on board your above advice, and visit on site.
Hi Yobarr,
Thankyou for your offer, we respect everyone's veiw, and look forward to a happy outcome.
It never entered our minds how Daunting this exercise would be.
We will do the right thing, safety comes first always.
Thankyou both, for all your work.
Regards
Old & Grey