Looking at changing out our existing suburban hot water service to an instant hot water service...after recommendation on best unit and if it's easy to change over yourself thanks in advance i meant for caravan sorry for any confusion
-- Edited by Davos on Tuesday 28th of July 2020 03:08:45 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:06 PM Jul 27, 2020
All gas work is required to be performed by a licenced gas fitter and you will require a certificate.
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
08:54 PM Jul 27, 2020
We have Hocking instantaneous hot water (they may have a different name now). 415 volts 3 phase about 20kW. They take a little getting used to, they are basically on or off. You can turn off one phase for summer as they can get a bit hot.
You may waste a bit more electricity in use but you will save 600 to 1000kWh hours a year simply to keep the water hot depending on the size of the tank.
This 80L tank with the additional insulation has reduced the Australian Standard of 1.67kWh per 24 hours to 1.0kWh per 24 hours to keep the tank hot. Aircell on tank then R4 polybatts then an outer layer of Aircell.
I had my aluminium tent fitted with a 'Girrard' continuous hot water heater when being built, worse thing ever done, never had hot water once. After many calls and visits to Agent I ditched it for a Suburban. I now have hot water all the time when it is turned on. I only turn on 30 mins before shower then turn off again. I have had it for three years now and love it.
Keep Safe out there.
Davos said
03:11 PM Jul 28, 2020
i find our suburban runs out of hot quick so we are going for instantaneous..i think we will pay the money and get a truma...done some research and truma give hot water upto 55deg..the one you mentioned gerad..ive been told doesnt operate effective in the cold weather
Snail said
03:47 PM Jul 28, 2020
If you free camp do not do it, I have the instantaneous hot water and they waste to much water. If you always use caravan parks they are great.
The Travelling Dillberries said
04:06 PM Jul 28, 2020
Davos wrote:
i find our suburban runs out of hot quick so we are going for instantaneous..i think we will pay the money and get a truma...done some research and truma give hot water upto 55deg..the one you mentioned gerad..ive been told doesnt operate effective in the cold weather
Which Truman hws are you thinking of. Both Truma "instantaneous" storage ones I have looked at have far less capacity than suburban so you will run out even faster. The new Truma instantaneous being advertised only heats to 45 deg C. Do you have a model number?
Dougwe said
04:21 PM Jul 28, 2020
Hi Chris and Sharyn. Davos is wanting a continuous flow heater not a storage one.
Snail is correct in using a lot if water too. They waste water while waiting for the hot to come through.
JayDee said
05:42 PM Jul 28, 2020
Dougwe wrote:
I had my aluminium tent fitted with a 'Girrard' continuous hot water heater when being built, worse thing ever done, never had hot water once. After many calls and visits to Agent I ditched it for a Suburban. I now have hot water all the time when it is turned on. I only turn on 30 mins before shower then turn off again. I have had it for three years now and love it.
Keep Safe out there.
We a likewise to Doug. Suburban has been excellent, even after 1 year lay up.
Bought a new anode, but the head of same would not screw into the Sub. so returned. Re installed the old anode which still had some good life in it. Never let us down for the 2 weeks trip we just completed.
Now to get a new anode that will fit.
They say the anode should be changed every year, but we operate on how worn the anode is. Bet there are heaps of RV's out there who do not regularly check the anode.
Suggest that you should go do it now, but don't forget to open the release valve, or you could / would get a white chalky shower.
Jay&Dee
Phillipn said
08:32 PM Jul 28, 2020
JayDee wrote:
Dougwe wrote:
I had my aluminium tent fitted with a 'Girrard' continuous hot water heater when being built, worse thing ever done, never had hot water once. After many calls and visits to Agent I ditched it for a Suburban. I now have hot water all the time when it is turned on. I only turn on 30 mins before shower then turn off again. I have had it for three years now and love it.
Keep Safe out there.
We a likewise to Doug. Suburban has been excellent, even after 1 year lay up.
Bought a new anode, but the head of same would not screw into the Sub. so returned. Re installed the old anode which still had some good life in it. Never let us down for the 2 weeks trip we just completed.
Now to get a new anode that will fit.
They say the anode should be changed every year, but we operate on how worn the anode is. Bet there are heaps of RV's out there who do not regularly check the anode.
Suggest that you should go do it now, but don't forget to open the release valve, or you could / would get a white chalky shower.
Jay&Dee
Jay & Dee
Go to RTM they have anodes for the suburban HW systems $19.95 each and they do fit.
Cupie said
11:28 PM Jul 28, 2020
Way back in the day we (SWMBO that is) used to often run out of hot water from our Suburban HWS.
I went down to the hardware store in whatever country town we were in at the time & got a water saver shower head.
Problem solved.
ps... When changing/checking the anode I just stand aside & let the pressure blow out the white gunk (corrosion or whatever it is).
JayDee said
11:38 PM Jul 28, 2020
Cupie wrote:
Way back in the day we (SWMBO that is) used to often run out of hot water from our Suburban HWS.
I went down to the hardware store in whatever country town we were in at the time & got a water saver shower head.
Problem solved.
ps... When changing/checking the anode I just stand aside & let the pressure blow out the white gunk (corrosion or whatever it is).
Cupie,
So do I,now stand aside, but not until the first time when I received a blast the almost blow me over and left me as wet at the Shag on the rock. Also don' t forget to fill the tank again,and again and then release, and yes stand aside.
The joys of caravanning.
jay&Dee
Mike Harding said
07:03 AM Jul 29, 2020
I agree with Cupie, try a different shower rose before changing the heater.
Sacrificial anode: I changed mine at one year and it was about 50% or more worn. My friend changed his at three years and it was around 90% worn. It depends on the water you're using but I wouldn't leave it longer than 18 months - they are not expensive and it's an easy job.
Whenarewethere said
09:25 AM Jul 29, 2020
A 3 phase 415 volt 18 amps per phase instantaneous hot water system is about 22.4kW. They are designed to increase water temperature by 50°C. They do have a modest water flow which you adjust temperature by increasing or decreasing water flow. In summer 2 phases are enough, so about 15kW.
A 240 volt single phase 10 amp instantaneous heater will only have a 2.4kW output. 1/9 of the above 22.4kW. you will have an extremely "thin" shower in winter.
You will be better off with a "thicker" shower but with a limited length of time with a tank.
Peter_n_Margaret said
01:02 PM Jul 29, 2020
The OKA has a diesel powered storage HWS that is 22L. It also heats from the engine as we drive or can be heated electrically at 750W from the inverter powered by solar. Any time we have driven for 30 minutes we have 22L of very hot water (up to 85C), so we only need to heat it by diesel or electricity if we have camped a couple of nights.
There is always hot water for the washing up, even for lunch while on the road.
It heats so quickly from the diesel heater that the next one will be 10L instead of 22L and that will be sufficient to maintain heat during and between showers. The same system provides the central heating. Not cheap to install, but very versatile and very cheap to run. Cheers, Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 29th of July 2020 01:04:51 PM
Greg 1 said
04:07 PM Jul 29, 2020
I have a 28 litre gas electric Swift which is great. If you need fast recovery time the gas and electric running together is nearly as good as an instantaneous.
Dick0 said
05:25 PM Jul 29, 2020
Dougwe wrote:
I had my aluminium tent fitted with a 'Girrard' continuous hot water heater when being built, worse thing ever done, never had hot water once. After many calls and visits to Agent I ditched it for a Suburban. I now have hot water all the time when it is turned on. I only turn on 30 mins before shower then turn off again. I have had it for three years now and love it.
Keep Safe out there.
Seems you may have had a lemon if it was from new Dougie.
First caravan had a 7 year old Suburban storage HWS...trouble free for 3 years when I had it.
Current caravan had 8 year old "GIRRARD" continuous HWS...so far trouble free 3 years.
I , also, do prefer the continuous over storage.
Another thing, I do not agree about wasting water with continuous HWS.
The moment I run hot water, the burner ignites and within 10 secs I have warm then hot water at the shower and ensuite outlets and 15 secs at kitchen outlet.
Maybe just luck with my Girrard HWS.
-- Edited by Dick0 on Wednesday 29th of July 2020 05:35:44 PM
Bobdown said
05:49 PM Jul 29, 2020
Greg 1 wrote:
I have a 28 litre gas electric Swift which is great. If you need fast recovery time the gas and electric running together is nearly as good as an instantaneous.
I have the Swift too Greg, Stainless Steel tank, no anode to replace, best so far..............
I've had a Surburban as well, also very good. Having had an Instantaneous at home, they do use a lot of water before the hot comes thru.
You can turn the HWS off when your finished and fire up again half hour before next use.
Thanks for a the feedback.. decided on truma aquago.. instantaneous...pricey but guaranteed to deliver hot water to 55deg even in cold climate..water delivery about 1.3ltrs before hot.. depending how close to service it has to travel..
spida said
02:15 PM Jul 30, 2020
Davos wrote:
i find our suburban runs out of hot quick so we are going for instantaneous..i think we will pay the money and get a truma...done some research and truma give hot water upto 55deg..the one you mentioned gerad..ive been told doesnt operate effective in the cold weather
Maybe research the Truma. I have one and for the third time the element has gone - power cuts out as soon as I switch it on! I did have hot watr a few days ago - but it blew during the night. Repair place said they are not called 'trauma' for nothing. I will now change my system!
The Travelling Dillberries said
05:56 PM Jul 30, 2020
Davos wrote:
Thanks for a the feedback.. decided on truma aquago.. instantaneous...pricey but guaranteed to deliver hot water to 55deg even in cold climate..water delivery about 1.3ltrs before hot.. depending how close to service it has to travel..
Davos, When i'm looking at purchasing an item like a HWS I find looking at the "Troubleshooting" guide most enlightening. If you do that you may get some idea of what the shortcomings of it are.
I have looked at the Truma you mention and I cant see anywhere that it will heat to 55deg C. In fact it is advertised on caravansplus as heating to 49 Deg C. This is fine if you only want to shower in it. You may also note from the troubleshooting guide that you may need to reduce the flow of water to maintain the 49 Deg C. Does not state what the flow rate at 49 Deg is either. Not a good start.
The suburban heats to around 80 Deg C, then in vans has the mixer to reduce to 55-65 Deg C. Hotter than you will get (if thats an issue)
Have a look here: There are several comparisons as well.
We recently returned from a trip during which we noticed that there was water on the floor of the van in the vicinity of the Suburban hot water heater. After checking it was apparent that the unit was leaking at both the hot and cold connections on the back of the storage tank.
Upon our return, I started making inquiries about a replacement and was told that it could not be done with another Suburban because they had been withheld from sale. The local caravan repair bloke (who I trust totally) told me that if I could find one, just let him know and he would buy six. There is no word on when the 240V/LPG unit will again be available for purchase.
To cut a long story short, we now have a Suburban gas "demand" hot water heater. It is a Suburban brand but does not have a storage tank that will rust out and corode or a sacrificial anode that needs replacing regularly. We have just completed a lengthy trip and we have found that the new unit is very frugal on gas consumption. On most nights free camping, we were using our LPG gas heater and demand hot water and have not had to top up our gas yet. Total cost of supply and fit of the unit together with gas certification was about $2100. We can both shower now without one of us having to wait for the previous unit to heat up after the first shower or by boosting with gas as well as 240V. We can also adjust the temperature of the hot water heater in increments of 1 degree up to 50 degrees.
Hope this info helps.
Tones
Dick0 said
01:38 PM Aug 15, 2020
For the plumbers out there...
Wonder if one of these could be plumbed into a van?
i find our suburban runs out of hot quick so we are going for instantaneous..i think we will pay the money and get a truma...done some research and truma give hot water upto 55deg..the one you mentioned gerad..ive been told doesnt operate effective in the cold weather
Davos,
You can turn your hot water up by locating the tempering valve and take the plastic top off then turn it anti clockwise for more heat or clockwise for less heat. They are usually located under the van.
Looking at changing out our existing suburban hot water service to an instant hot water service...after recommendation on best unit and if it's easy to change over yourself thanks in advance i meant for caravan sorry for any confusion
-- Edited by Davos on Tuesday 28th of July 2020 03:08:45 PM
Cheers,
Peter
We have Hocking instantaneous hot water (they may have a different name now). 415 volts 3 phase about 20kW. They take a little getting used to, they are basically on or off. You can turn off one phase for summer as they can get a bit hot.
You may waste a bit more electricity in use but you will save 600 to 1000kWh hours a year simply to keep the water hot depending on the size of the tank.
This 80L tank with the additional insulation has reduced the Australian Standard of 1.67kWh per 24 hours to 1.0kWh per 24 hours to keep the tank hot. Aircell on tank then R4 polybatts then an outer layer of Aircell.
Keep Safe out there.
i find our suburban runs out of hot quick so we are going for instantaneous..i think we will pay the money and get a truma...done some research and truma give hot water upto 55deg..the one you mentioned gerad..ive been told doesnt operate effective in the cold weather
If you free camp do not do it, I have the instantaneous hot water and they waste to much water. If you always use caravan parks they are great.
Which Truman hws are you thinking of. Both Truma "instantaneous" storage ones I have looked at have far less capacity than suburban so you will run out even faster. The new Truma instantaneous being advertised only heats to 45 deg C. Do you have a model number?
Snail is correct in using a lot if water too. They waste water while waiting for the hot to come through.
We a likewise to Doug. Suburban has been excellent, even after 1 year lay up.
Bought a new anode, but the head of same would not screw into the Sub. so returned. Re installed the old anode which still had some good life in it. Never let us down for the 2 weeks trip we just completed.
Now to get a new anode that will fit.
They say the anode should be changed every year, but we operate on how worn the anode is. Bet there are heaps of RV's out there who do not regularly check the anode.
Suggest that you should go do it now, but don't forget to open the release valve, or you could / would get a white chalky shower.
Jay&Dee
Jay & Dee
Go to RTM they have anodes for the suburban HW systems $19.95 each and they do fit.
Way back in the day we (SWMBO that is) used to often run out of hot water from our Suburban HWS.
I went down to the hardware store in whatever country town we were in at the time & got a water saver shower head.
Problem solved.
ps... When changing/checking the anode I just stand aside & let the pressure blow out the white gunk (corrosion or whatever it is).
Cupie,
So do I,now stand aside, but not until the first time when I received a blast the almost blow me over and left me as wet at the Shag on the rock. Also don' t forget to fill the tank again,and again and then release, and yes stand aside.
The joys of caravanning.
jay&Dee
I agree with Cupie, try a different shower rose before changing the heater.
Sacrificial anode: I changed mine at one year and it was about 50% or more worn. My friend changed his at three years and it was around 90% worn. It depends on the water you're using but I wouldn't leave it longer than 18 months - they are not expensive and it's an easy job.
A 3 phase 415 volt 18 amps per phase instantaneous hot water system is about 22.4kW. They are designed to increase water temperature by 50°C. They do have a modest water flow which you adjust temperature by increasing or decreasing water flow. In summer 2 phases are enough, so about 15kW.
A 240 volt single phase 10 amp instantaneous heater will only have a 2.4kW output. 1/9 of the above 22.4kW. you will have an extremely "thin" shower in winter.
You will be better off with a "thicker" shower but with a limited length of time with a tank.
The OKA has a diesel powered storage HWS that is 22L. It also heats from the engine as we drive or can be heated electrically at 750W from the inverter powered by solar.
Any time we have driven for 30 minutes we have 22L of very hot water (up to 85C), so we only need to heat it by diesel or electricity if we have camped a couple of nights.
There is always hot water for the washing up, even for lunch while on the road.
It heats so quickly from the diesel heater that the next one will be 10L instead of 22L and that will be sufficient to maintain heat during and between showers.
The same system provides the central heating.
Not cheap to install, but very versatile and very cheap to run.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 29th of July 2020 01:04:51 PM
Seems you may have had a lemon if it was from new Dougie.
First caravan had a 7 year old Suburban storage HWS...trouble free for 3 years when I had it.
Current caravan had 8 year old "GIRRARD" continuous HWS...so far trouble free 3 years.
I , also, do prefer the continuous over storage.
Another thing, I do not agree about wasting water with continuous HWS.
The moment I run hot water, the burner ignites and within 10 secs I have warm then hot water at the shower and ensuite outlets and 15 secs at kitchen outlet.
Maybe just luck with my Girrard HWS.
-- Edited by Dick0 on Wednesday 29th of July 2020 05:35:44 PM
I have the Swift too Greg, Stainless Steel tank, no anode to replace, best so far..............
I've had a Surburban as well, also very good. Having had an Instantaneous at home, they do use a lot of water before the hot comes thru.
You can turn the HWS off when your finished and fire up again half hour before next use.
Cheers Bob
If you do go for an instantaneous then install a Red Water diverter. It can return the cold water back to the tank until it gets hot enough. http://www.redwater.net.au/index.php/distributors.html
Maybe research the Truma. I have one and for the third time the element has gone - power cuts out as soon as I switch it on! I did have hot watr a few days ago - but it blew during the night. Repair place said they are not called 'trauma' for nothing. I will now change my system!
Davos, When i'm looking at purchasing an item like a HWS I find looking at the "Troubleshooting" guide most enlightening. If you do that you may get some idea of what the shortcomings of it are.
I have looked at the Truma you mention and I cant see anywhere that it will heat to 55deg C. In fact it is advertised on caravansplus as heating to 49 Deg C. This is fine if you only want to shower in it. You may also note from the troubleshooting guide that you may need to reduce the flow of water to maintain the 49 Deg C. Does not state what the flow rate at 49 Deg is either. Not a good start.
The suburban heats to around 80 Deg C, then in vans has the mixer to reduce to 55-65 Deg C. Hotter than you will get (if thats an issue)
Have a look here: There are several comparisons as well.
https://www.caravansplus.com.au/truma-aquago-comfort-instant-gas-hot-water-heater-white-p-16553.html
Food for thought, Cheers,
Chris.
Hi all,
We recently returned from a trip during which we noticed that there was water on the floor of the van in the vicinity of the Suburban hot water heater. After checking it was apparent that the unit was leaking at both the hot and cold connections on the back of the storage tank.
Upon our return, I started making inquiries about a replacement and was told that it could not be done with another Suburban because they had been withheld from sale. The local caravan repair bloke (who I trust totally) told me that if I could find one, just let him know and he would buy six. There is no word on when the 240V/LPG unit will again be available for purchase.
To cut a long story short, we now have a Suburban gas "demand" hot water heater. It is a Suburban brand but does not have a storage tank that will rust out and corode or a sacrificial anode that needs replacing regularly. We have just completed a lengthy trip and we have found that the new unit is very frugal on gas consumption. On most nights free camping, we were using our LPG gas heater and demand hot water and have not had to top up our gas yet. Total cost of supply and fit of the unit together with gas certification was about $2100. We can both shower now without one of us having to wait for the previous unit to heat up after the first shower or by boosting with gas as well as 240V. We can also adjust the temperature of the hot water heater in increments of 1 degree up to 50 degrees.
Hope this info helps.
Tones
For the plumbers out there...
Wonder if one of these could be plumbed into a van?
https://www.mydeal.com.au/gasland-gas-hot-water-heater-system-w-pump-stand
Davos,
You can turn your hot water up by locating the tempering valve and take the plastic top off then turn it anti clockwise for more heat or clockwise for less heat. They are usually located under the van.