People will wonder why we are doing this, well their are a few reasons. We changed our vehicle, to get one that is cheaper to run, so as it is lighter it wont be really be able to pull our van. Our van is an poptop and annoying to set up, especially winding down the legs, as I have to bend down and get under to do it. We were only getting 350km to a tank of fuel with the van on, and no more then 450km with it off. Our wind out awning had to be put in everytime it got windy, where as our last vans awning that slid on could stay out even in the worst of storms. We want something simple and lighter, to pull to keep the costs down, as we had a soft floor camper before this van, and it was a 5 min. effort to set it up. Sure we are getting older, and most people go for more comfort, but we want to be able to get back to doing the bush tracks, that we did before, much easier with the camper. We want to use the dutch oven, and billy more for outside camping and cooking, because with the van, we would disappear inside to cook , and I started saying whats the point of going camping if we are always inside. We are cooler weather campers, and love sitting around a fire, but it was so easy to disappear into the van, when it got cold, and I thought it was better to be staying at our bush cabin, instead of travelling, and worked out, we might as well as stay home, because we were always inside, when away. The whole idea of camping and/or caravaning is to get outside, and live a bit, and we were just doing the opposite. It was Donna's idea to go back to a hardfloor, although I was also comtemplating it as well, I even camp with the tent most of the time now, taking the dog, and was building a bike caravan, but have stopped doing this, as even though it worked really well in a recent heavy down pour, i realise I really loved being in the tent. It is special for me, and reminds me of when i did it when I was young. Just looking to getting back to the simple things in life, surrounding camping.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 6th of November 2020 04:55:54 PM
Greg 1 said
04:45 PM Nov 6, 2020
You must always buy the thing that suits your circumstances the best.
For us, a full size van with bathroom is the only way to go but others like smaller and simpler alternatives for a raft of reasons.
As long as you are getting out there to experience this great country of ours, I say good on you.
garyt said
10:30 PM Nov 6, 2020
Bicyclecamper,
That is exactly - sort of - of what we have just done!
We have previously had caravans and recently sold our 20' Lotus and bought a camper trailer. We were sick of towing 'a block of flats' around Australia. We also hated disappearing inside to cook. We have had 7 vans and have never cooked inside in any of them. Camping should be fun - and basic - as long as you are healthy enough to do that. We are still fit but wanted to be able to do more dirt and remote locations that a camper more easily facilitates. On a trip to WA in 2019 we were unable to actually get onto a few sites due to our size.
We have always thought - you are either camping or you are home. Perhaps returning to 'real' camping will become the new 'new'?
hufnpuf said
08:08 AM Nov 7, 2020
garyt wrote:
We also hated disappearing inside to cook. We have had 7 vans and have never cooked inside in any of them.
Getting the "kitchen" indoors was part of the reason I got my caravan. I went to Exmouth and stayed in a tent, took a lovely little portable stove with me but never used it because it was so windy. I didn't have an annex, gazebo or anything to use for a windbreak and didn't think it could stay lit when it was so blowy. I suppose everywhere isn't windy city, but it can also be wet.
I don't really care about cooking so much as getting a cup of tea/coffee..... It makes sense that you wouldn't do a fryup of onions and garlic, fish, or barbecue in a confined space with your bedding in. My little van does have a rangehood, I don't know how effective that is, I haven't managed to use the stove yet.
I think a camper trailer is a good option between tent and van. You don't have to lug all of your stuff out of the car, but you don't have such a huge trailer to cart about.
Possum3 said
08:11 AM Nov 7, 2020
We utilise both (Camper/caravan), due to decreasing mobility and pure laziness we tend to leave the trailer for the kids and we old fart it in the luxury of the caravan.
We tend to free(dom) camp 95% of the time - here is the deal breaker, shower and toilet facilities are not readily available where we want to go, so we must take them with us. Portable 12volt shower/bucket of warm water OK in summer when weather is fine but..... there is no way in Hell will the Child-bride consider baring the boobs under an old gum tree in the middle of a paddock during inclement weather. Her idea of Antarctic conditions is temp below 30 deg C, wind gusting above 1 knot, visible cloud, etc. So we are destined for luxury Caravan or six star hotel with buffet meals, the later being to her minimum standards of travel. Whilst I claim to be the Great White Hunter, in reality the lazy bug in me also prefers a modicum of comfort in my old-ish age.
It is simply a fact of economics that because of exorbitant Park prices we either travel with the brick behind us or we are destined to sit on the verandah in a rocking chair and miss the wonderment of travelling.
Bobdown said
11:45 AM Nov 7, 2020
Greg 1 wrote:
You must always buy the thing that suits your circumstances the best. For us, a full size van with bathroom is the only way to go but others like smaller and simpler alternatives for a raft of reasons. As long as you are getting out there to experience this great country of ours, I say good on you.
I agree Greg, a few luxuries later in life doesn't hurt, like an ensuite and comfy bed, I don't mind towing around.
Way past getting up in the middle of the night and digging a hole and using the bark off a tree for paper...........lol
Cheers Bob
Bicyclecamper said
01:45 PM Nov 7, 2020
Bobdown wrote:
Greg 1 wrote:
You must always buy the thing that suits your circumstances the best. For us, a full size van with bathroom is the only way to go but others like smaller and simpler alternatives for a raft of reasons. As long as you are getting out there to experience this great country of ours, I say good on you.
I agree Greg, a few luxuries later in life doesn't hurt, like an ensuite and comfy bed, I don't mind towing around.
Way past getting up in the middle of the night and digging a hole and using the bark off a tree for paper...........lol
Cheers Bob
I like using the bark off the tree, but seriously, it just that , to do as one pleases to do. The only problem we can see with going back to a camper, is we wont be self contained, so will be discriminated against , at certain camping areas, but this has happened anyway, as we were not self contained in our current van. I think the main reason we are going to do it, is to be able to get into those tight tracks, that we used to get into when we had our last camper, and earlier model vehicle of the same brand we have now. What we like about that type of touring, is we would find no other campers/c.vanners there, as we are very private people, as well as at times nudists. It will be harder now due to covid, as most bush camping spots, that we have made day trips to recently, that we had never seen people there before, these people are there now, but it won't be forever.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of November 2020 01:54:17 PM
Bicyclecamper said
02:03 PM Nov 7, 2020
garyt wrote:
Bicyclecamper,
That is exactly - sort of - of what we have just done! We have previously had caravans and recently sold our 20' Lotus and bought a camper trailer. We were sick of towing 'a block of flats' around Australia. We also hated disappearing inside to cook. We have had 7 vans and have never cooked inside in any of them. Camping should be fun - and basic - as long as you are healthy enough to do that. We are still fit but wanted to be able to do more dirt and remote locations that a camper more easily facilitates. On a trip to WA in 2019 we were unable to actually get onto a few sites due to our size.
We have always thought - you are either camping or you are home. Perhaps returning to 'real' camping will become the new 'new'?
garyt, you have put it better, and more simpler then I could put it, it is exactly how we feel. We had 2 vans, then a camper which we loved, and did more trips in then this last van, so when we go back to a camper again, it is such a simple thing to hook up, no more WDH, no mucking around, then take off. Looking forward to it.
Cuppa said
02:50 PM Nov 7, 2020
Bicycle Camper - After years of tent & swag camping with cars & motorcycles we bought a Nissan civilian bus & converted it to live & travel in, & like you found it's 'indoor lifestyle'quite seductive, & conversations occurred questioning whether this was good. We owned it for around 12 years, during which time we lived in it full time for 18 months doing a 45k trip around the country. It was replaced by a 4wd & a semi hardtop with hard floor off road capable camper trailer. A Tvan. Motor home friends had bets as to how long we would 'last' in it before returning to a motorhome. Most reckoned 6 months to a year. It has now been 'home' for over 3 years 'on the road'. It has been a wonderful combination, which has allowed us access to so many places that the bus could never have taken us. Now whilst we love the 'outdoor lifestyle' of the Tvan, after 3 years we did, now & again, look enviously at other options which afforded their owners cooking inside when the weather was wet or windy, or the mozzies & sandflies were on the rampage. To be fair wet or bitey occasions have not been great in number up north. Windy weather has been more common. So sticking with the Tvan's 'outdoor lifestyle' has not been too difficult. The Tvan's flexibility in setups has made this easier still. Nevertheless we have from time to time considered alternatives which would once again provide us with indoor cooking but every time came up against the unacceptable (to us) compromise of each alternative being ones which would restrict our access to the sorts of places we love the most. We too place a very high value on our privacy.Towing something heavier (let alone bigger) was never a consideration. Not towing at all was highly desirable as it offered greater access (No more passing interesting looking tracks for fear of being unable to turn around). Most 4wd's were unable to carry what we carry now, which allows us to remain off grid for 6 weeks at a time. Most 'expedition type trucks were too wide, too tall and/or too expensive, & most had, compared to our Patrol, lesser 4wd capabilities. So each time we buried ourselves in hope & excitement we ended back at the Patrol & Tvan.
Until a few days ago.
We found what we believe will give us all we want with just one compromise - height. We are buying a vehicle which is around 500mm higher than the canopy on our Patrol, when in travel mode, & is almost 4 metres shorter than our Patrol /Tvan combo, has a wheelbase similar to the Patrol & a similar turning circle & was designed as an off road vehicle from the outset. In addition it has a GVM of 6000kg, & comes with an indoor kitchen, including an oven, indoor seats/table, plus a shower & toilet & even the luxury of a diesel heater! Admittedly we could have purchased quite a luxurious 'on road' motorhome for the same price, but instead have opted for an off road, poptop campervan. An OKA. After 3 years of 'outdoor living' I hope we will continue to default to this 'closer to the earth' lifestyle, but will have the option of avoiding the occasional 'crappy bits'.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 7th of November 2020 02:53:36 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 7th of November 2020 02:58:03 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 7th of November 2020 03:02:24 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 7th of November 2020 03:04:22 PM
Tony Bev said
04:00 PM Nov 7, 2020
Hi Bicyclecamper (Ric)
We are all different, and that is why there will never be, just one type of RV
If you are happy to go from a caravan, to a hard floor camper, then (in my opinion), that is all that matters
I hope that when travelling restrictions end, you and your wife, have many happy road trips ahead of you both
As far as being self contained, a pop up shower tent, and a portable toilet, would do the trick
That is what I had, when I did the first lap, in a normal Ford Falcon 6 cylinder car, towing a pop top caravan
KJB said
04:16 PM Nov 7, 2020
I reckon you will enjoy it....... Pics. please when convenient and keep us informed on how your decision turns out....
Warren-Pat_01 said
05:29 PM Nov 7, 2020
G'day Bicyclecamper,
Like the others said above, it's horses for courses. What suits one person/couple may not suit another & as we get more disabled we often have to make changes to suite. I thought I was 100% well but a month ago I developed a haematoma on one leg. Luckily it happened while we were staying with family & not out bush somewhere.
Pat's told me if I fall off the perch first, the car & van will both go & she'll have some sort of a mini-car! At the rate we're going, we'll be in that situation in the not too distant future but my mini-car will be a 4x4! A Suzuki Jimmy? Probably not roomy enough.
We're happy with what we have, there's some degree of comfort but I'd like two things that are probably impossible - a lighter van yet capable off road & with a greater carrying capability!!!
Like most here we've graduated from various tents, to tent/camper trailers to a van of some description & our capabilities to go way out of the way places have diminished along the path. Our tent trailer (soft floor) - I built it up as a sort of a kit. The kitchen was not flash (did have a wash up bowl, & a portable two burner stove on its own stand. This came in handy as we got caught in a savage storm at the end of Flinders Chase one night. We cooked our meal inside the tent (not certain if it was legal but we had plenty of room). Other campers across the path had a flash "pull out kitchen" - they failed miserably to have any sort of a hot meal.
Enjoy your change - have you seen another forum campertrailers.org? Like this one, there's lots of nice info there too. We hope you see lots more than you might have with more weight on the back & we continue reading your words of wisdom.
Good luck.
Bicyclecamper said
09:28 PM Nov 7, 2020
Warren Pat, thankyou, the used camper we have found, and their are a few of them about, has indoor/outdoor cooking facilities, with an indoor 3 way fridge. The indoor cooking will be good for bad weather, but we intend to use the the outdoor facilities, a hell of a lot more. It has single beds like what we like to use, but you can get queens in them as well. . If none are available when we are ready to buy, we will just wait and use our tent instead. We have to sell our van first,( it has single beds, so a nitche market). we are very much looking forward to getting back, to places, that we used the old camper at , especially Styx river gorge out from Armidale, Gwydir river camps, Near Bingara, Wollindilly river, near Mossvale etc, plus many more.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of November 2020 09:28:48 PM
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of November 2020 09:31:53 PM
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of November 2020 09:51:49 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:34 PM Nov 7, 2020
No Ric, not a niche market, just more pros than cons with single beds as we found.
ie more room in the centre of the floor, easier to make the beds, no fighting over the doona on cold nights, less disturbed sleep for one partner if the other is a bookworm & wants to read, larger wardrobe & it may be easier to work on some of the plumbing (my water inlet is under my bed, not crammed in a cupboard). Yes there are a couple of cons but we work around those generally.
I'm often surprised as to how many vans are on the road that have single beds (& two separate sun shields).
Hydeeeho said
05:59 PM Nov 12, 2020
We have two hard floor campers and yes they were great at the time, but since then we have had four caravans, 2 poptops and 2 full caravans, currently have a poptop, and would never go back to a hard floor van again, yes we have a porta potty which is just great and i have know trouble towing or parking a van, what ever suits you is the way to go, all the best
People will wonder why we are doing this, well their are a few reasons. We changed our vehicle, to get one that is cheaper to run, so as it is lighter it wont be really be able to pull our van. Our van is an poptop and annoying to set up, especially winding down the legs, as I have to bend down and get under to do it. We were only getting 350km to a tank of fuel with the van on, and no more then 450km with it off. Our wind out awning had to be put in everytime it got windy, where as our last vans awning that slid on could stay out even in the worst of storms. We want something simple and lighter, to pull to keep the costs down, as we had a soft floor camper before this van, and it was a 5 min. effort to set it up. Sure we are getting older, and most people go for more comfort, but we want to be able to get back to doing the bush tracks, that we did before, much easier with the camper. We want to use the dutch oven, and billy more for outside camping and cooking, because with the van, we would disappear inside to cook , and I started saying whats the point of going camping if we are always inside. We are cooler weather campers, and love sitting around a fire, but it was so easy to disappear into the van, when it got cold, and I thought it was better to be staying at our bush cabin, instead of travelling, and worked out, we might as well as stay home, because we were always inside, when away. The whole idea of camping and/or caravaning is to get outside, and live a bit, and we were just doing the opposite. It was Donna's idea to go back to a hardfloor, although I was also comtemplating it as well, I even camp with the tent most of the time now, taking the dog, and was building a bike caravan, but have stopped doing this, as even though it worked really well in a recent heavy down pour, i realise I really loved being in the tent. It is special for me, and reminds me of when i did it when I was young. Just looking to getting back to the simple things in life, surrounding camping.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 6th of November 2020 04:55:54 PM
That is exactly - sort of - of what we have just done!
We have previously had caravans and recently sold our 20' Lotus and bought a camper trailer. We were sick of towing 'a block of flats' around Australia. We also hated disappearing inside to cook. We have had 7 vans and have never cooked inside in any of them. Camping should be fun - and basic - as long as you are healthy enough to do that. We are still fit but wanted to be able to do more dirt and remote locations that a camper more easily facilitates. On a trip to WA in 2019 we were unable to actually get onto a few sites due to our size.
We have always thought - you are either camping or you are home. Perhaps returning to 'real' camping will become the new 'new'?
Getting the "kitchen" indoors was part of the reason I got my caravan. I went to Exmouth and stayed in a tent, took a lovely little portable stove with me but never used it because it was so windy. I didn't have an annex, gazebo or anything to use for a windbreak and didn't think it could stay lit when it was so blowy. I suppose everywhere isn't windy city, but it can also be wet.
I don't really care about cooking so much as getting a cup of tea/coffee..... It makes sense that you wouldn't do a fryup of onions and garlic, fish, or barbecue in a confined space with your bedding in. My little van does have a rangehood, I don't know how effective that is, I haven't managed to use the stove yet.
I think a camper trailer is a good option between tent and van. You don't have to lug all of your stuff out of the car, but you don't have such a huge trailer to cart about.
We tend to free(dom) camp 95% of the time - here is the deal breaker, shower and toilet facilities are not readily available where we want to go, so we must take them with us. Portable 12volt shower/bucket of warm water OK in summer when weather is fine but..... there is no way in Hell will the Child-bride consider baring the boobs under an old gum tree in the middle of a paddock during inclement weather. Her idea of Antarctic conditions is temp below 30 deg C, wind gusting above 1 knot, visible cloud, etc. So we are destined for luxury Caravan or six star hotel with buffet meals, the later being to her minimum standards of travel. Whilst I claim to be the Great White Hunter, in reality the lazy bug in me also prefers a modicum of comfort in my old-ish age.
It is simply a fact of economics that because of exorbitant Park prices we either travel with the brick behind us or we are destined to sit on the verandah in a rocking chair and miss the wonderment of travelling.
I agree Greg, a few luxuries later in life doesn't hurt, like an ensuite and comfy bed, I don't mind towing around.
Way past getting up in the middle of the night and digging a hole and using the bark off a tree for paper...........lol
Cheers Bob
I like using the bark off the tree, but seriously, it just that , to do as one pleases to do. The only problem we can see with going back to a camper, is we wont be self contained, so will be discriminated against , at certain camping areas, but this has happened anyway, as we were not self contained in our current van. I think the main reason we are going to do it, is to be able to get into those tight tracks, that we used to get into when we had our last camper, and earlier model vehicle of the same brand we have now. What we like about that type of touring, is we would find no other campers/c.vanners there, as we are very private people, as well as at times nudists. It will be harder now due to covid, as most bush camping spots, that we have made day trips to recently, that we had never seen people there before, these people are there now, but it won't be forever.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of November 2020 01:54:17 PM
garyt, you have put it better, and more simpler then I could put it, it is exactly how we feel. We had 2 vans, then a camper which we loved, and did more trips in then this last van, so when we go back to a camper again, it is such a simple thing to hook up, no more WDH, no mucking around, then take off. Looking forward to it.
Bicycle Camper - After years of tent & swag camping with cars & motorcycles we bought a Nissan civilian bus & converted it to live & travel in, & like you found it's 'indoor lifestyle'quite seductive, & conversations occurred questioning whether this was good. We owned it for around 12 years, during which time we lived in it full time for 18 months doing a 45k trip around the country. It was replaced by a 4wd & a semi hardtop with hard floor off road capable camper trailer. A Tvan. Motor home friends had bets as to how long we would 'last' in it before returning to a motorhome. Most reckoned 6 months to a year. It has now been 'home' for over 3 years 'on the road'. It has been a wonderful combination, which has allowed us access to so many places that the bus could never have taken us. Now whilst we love the 'outdoor lifestyle' of the Tvan, after 3 years we did, now & again, look enviously at other options which afforded their owners cooking inside when the weather was wet or windy, or the mozzies & sandflies were on the rampage. To be fair wet or bitey occasions have not been great in number up north. Windy weather has been more common. So sticking with the Tvan's 'outdoor lifestyle' has not been too difficult. The Tvan's flexibility in setups has made this easier still. Nevertheless we have from time to time considered alternatives which would once again provide us with indoor cooking but every time came up against the unacceptable (to us) compromise of each alternative being ones which would restrict our access to the sorts of places we love the most. We too place a very high value on our privacy.Towing something heavier (let alone bigger) was never a consideration. Not towing at all was highly desirable as it offered greater access (No more passing interesting looking tracks for fear of being unable to turn around). Most 4wd's were unable to carry what we carry now, which allows us to remain off grid for 6 weeks at a time. Most 'expedition type trucks were too wide, too tall and/or too expensive, & most had, compared to our Patrol, lesser 4wd capabilities. So each time we buried ourselves in hope & excitement we ended back at the Patrol & Tvan.
Until a few days ago.
We found what we believe will give us all we want with just one compromise - height. We are buying a vehicle which is around 500mm higher than the canopy on our Patrol, when in travel mode, & is almost 4 metres shorter than our Patrol /Tvan combo, has a wheelbase similar to the Patrol & a similar turning circle & was designed as an off road vehicle from the outset. In addition it has a GVM of 6000kg, & comes with an indoor kitchen, including an oven, indoor seats/table, plus a shower & toilet & even the luxury of a diesel heater! Admittedly we could have purchased quite a luxurious 'on road' motorhome for the same price, but instead have opted for an off road, poptop campervan. An OKA. After 3 years of 'outdoor living' I hope we will continue to default to this 'closer to the earth' lifestyle, but will have the option of avoiding the occasional 'crappy bits'.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 7th of November 2020 02:53:36 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 7th of November 2020 02:58:03 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 7th of November 2020 03:02:24 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Saturday 7th of November 2020 03:04:22 PM
We are all different, and that is why there will never be, just one type of RV
If you are happy to go from a caravan, to a hard floor camper, then (in my opinion), that is all that matters
I hope that when travelling restrictions end, you and your wife, have many happy road trips ahead of you both
As far as being self contained, a pop up shower tent, and a portable toilet, would do the trick
That is what I had, when I did the first lap, in a normal Ford Falcon 6 cylinder car, towing a pop top caravan
I reckon you will enjoy it....... Pics. please when convenient and keep us informed on how your decision turns out....
Like the others said above, it's horses for courses. What suits one person/couple may not suit another & as we get more disabled we often have to make changes to suite. I thought I was 100% well but a month ago I developed a haematoma on one leg. Luckily it happened while we were staying with family & not out bush somewhere.
Pat's told me if I fall off the perch first, the car & van will both go & she'll have some sort of a mini-car! At the rate we're going, we'll be in that situation in the not too distant future but my mini-car will be a 4x4! A Suzuki Jimmy? Probably not roomy enough.
We're happy with what we have, there's some degree of comfort but I'd like two things that are probably impossible - a lighter van yet capable off road & with a greater carrying capability!!!
Like most here we've graduated from various tents, to tent/camper trailers to a van of some description & our capabilities to go way out of the way places have diminished along the path. Our tent trailer (soft floor) - I built it up as a sort of a kit. The kitchen was not flash (did have a wash up bowl, & a portable two burner stove on its own stand. This came in handy as we got caught in a savage storm at the end of Flinders Chase one night. We cooked our meal inside the tent (not certain if it was legal but we had plenty of room). Other campers across the path had a flash "pull out kitchen" - they failed miserably to have any sort of a hot meal.
Enjoy your change - have you seen another forum campertrailers.org? Like this one, there's lots of nice info there too. We hope you see lots more than you might have with more weight on the back & we continue reading your words of wisdom.
Good luck.
Warren Pat, thankyou, the used camper we have found, and their are a few of them about, has indoor/outdoor cooking facilities, with an indoor 3 way fridge. The indoor cooking will be good for bad weather, but we intend to use the the outdoor facilities, a hell of a lot more. It has single beds like what we like to use, but you can get queens in them as well. . If none are available when we are ready to buy, we will just wait and use our tent instead. We have to sell our van first,( it has single beds, so a nitche market). we are very much looking forward to getting back, to places, that we used the old camper at , especially Styx river gorge out from Armidale, Gwydir river camps, Near Bingara, Wollindilly river, near Mossvale etc, plus many more.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of November 2020 09:28:48 PM
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of November 2020 09:31:53 PM
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of November 2020 09:51:49 PM
ie more room in the centre of the floor, easier to make the beds, no fighting over the doona on cold nights, less disturbed sleep for one partner if the other is a bookworm & wants to read, larger wardrobe & it may be easier to work on some of the plumbing (my water inlet is under my bed, not crammed in a cupboard). Yes there are a couple of cons but we work around those generally.
I'm often surprised as to how many vans are on the road that have single beds (& two separate sun shields).
Kay & Dave