Authorities are furious after a number of unmonitored campfires were found in Victorian forests and campgrounds last weekend.
The Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning (DELWP) reported "87 unattended or abandoned campfires" throughout the state.
On-the-spot fines of up to $496 can be issued to people who breach campfire safety rules.
Lighting a fire during a total fire ban can attract a $39,652 fine or two years in jail or both.
I'm curious as to where the figure of $39,652 comes from. Why not $40K? Why $496 and not $500?
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 19th of November 2020 01:49:47 PM
Greystone said
03:36 PM Nov 19, 2020
Fines are imposed by law as a number of "penalty units" for each offence. The government of the day then sets the value of a "penalty unit". Multiply one with the other and you get the odd monetary values.
Mike Harding said
06:33 PM Nov 19, 2020
Tell me about it!
Last year, on this forum, I stated I would photograph and report people who did this and I got a bit of grief for it.
All I can say to the w@ankers who do such is that I shall photograph and report you *again* this year and I care not one one jot if you don't like that!
dabbler said
08:06 PM Nov 19, 2020
Odd amounts also occur when inflation is add. Applicable laws reference dollar amounts plus annual inflation to avoid replacing legislation each year. It's long been the practice.
Sarco Harris said
08:55 PM Nov 19, 2020
With the recent amendments to the Land Act 1958 in Vic, this is going to become an even greater problem as the Act now allows for camping on crown land leases of farmland along steams. While access has been allowed under the act for many many years, it is only now that camping is to be allowed.
Obviously Vic farmers are up in arms about it mostly due to liability issues. Who is liable if a camper/s are injured on the land and who is responsible cleaning up any mess left behind, not to mention damage to bio security of farms, injuries to animals etc.
Policing will also be an issue as while access is OK and camping is OK, there is absolutely no mention of any type of vehicle access being allowed.
To me it is another huge can of worms being opened by an incompetent government.
But that being said, it was passed in the upper house by even the Shooters, Fishers (the most advantaged group), Farmers Party, other than just the usual labor imitation toadies of the other minor parties.
dorian said
07:08 AM Nov 20, 2020
Greystone wrote:
Fines are imposed by law as a number of "penalty units" for each offence. The government of the day then sets the value of a "penalty unit". Multiply one with the other and you get the odd monetary values.
However numbers don't change the fact that there are mongrels out there that leave fires going unattended.They obviously don't give two hoots as to the destruction fires can do. They would be the sort of person to be first to complain if a fire destroyed their home and property or worse still, a family member or very close friend.
Grab 'em by the neck and name and shame on the Televish then throw the book at 'em. No excuse covers what they have done.
Mobi Condo said
08:31 AM Nov 20, 2020
Good morning all, referring to Sarco Harris "To me it is another huge can of worms being opened by an incompetent government."
This is so common across most states and territories - the main reason I have / had trouble watching "Yes Minister" is that it so close to the bone, being an ex Public Servant at lower levels trying to comply with Building Standards Australia etc., who was expected by the higher levels to actually SERVE the public and then see the outcomes of exercises presented to the world sometimes even being changed after the reports went to them to go against the BCA 1990 as it was then.
I agree with Mikes take on this, and have done the same over time and one gets a bit of "fun" from it as well, specially when the parties doing the deeds realize that they are "sprung badly" and have even threatened me with violence! I would not want to be in the shoes of the poor dudes just doing their job and who got shot by land holders for it out back of Moree a few years back though!
dieseltojo said
08:37 AM Nov 20, 2020
Can any show a list of campers that have been find $39,00-00 dollars. They show all this stuff and then let them off. Only a major company might actually get that sort of fine.
rgren2 said
12:05 PM Nov 20, 2020
Rubbish breeds more rubbish, just like graffiti, if its not removed the next person that comes along will just add theirs and think its OK.
Tony LEE said
09:10 AM Nov 21, 2020
Then there is the problem that in some places there shouldn't be any camp fires in the first place.....
At Ess Lagoon at the moment where signs at the entrance prohibit open fires. Went for a stroll last night and heard a chainsaw roaring in the middle of trees ans shrubs that had been planted. Stopped when they saw me and moved back into the bush. I suggested it was a protected habitat area rather than a source of wood for their camp fire and they retorted that the tree was dead so...
I left it on the basis that the ranger would be along to educate them on the right thing to do. Then further on there was another camper with a fire going - albeit in a raised steel stove and they might have brought their own wood but....
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Saturday 21st of November 2020 09:22:41 AM
Tony LEE said
09:14 AM Nov 21, 2020
And then there are the 50% of campers that are obviously not self contained, camping contrary to signs.
No wonder these amazing campgrounds are being closed
Tony LEE said
09:17 AM Nov 21, 2020
Probably time for a permanent Australia-wide ban on both gathering wood and having open fires anywhere, any time
Pretty hard to leave no trace AND have campfires
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Saturday 21st of November 2020 09:21:39 AM
Mobi Condo said
01:33 PM Nov 21, 2020
Tony LEE wrote:
Probably time for a permanent Australia-wide ban on both gathering wood and having open fires anywhere, any time
Pretty hard to leave no trace AND have campfires
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Saturday 21st of November 2020 09:21:39 AM
mm! Not really THAT hard!
I can leave you a camp site of say a weeks duration, where by the only sign of us being there would be the tyre tracks in and out again. Just a bit of spade and rake work will cover up even a fire place. We were brought up to do so back in the real ancient of days - that is the 1950's
Plain Truth said
02:46 PM Nov 21, 2020
We can free camp for a week or more and have a fire every day,and leave it in a pristine condition.
Always leave it better than we found it.
yobarr said
04:57 PM Nov 21, 2020
Mobi Condo wrote:
Tony LEE wrote:
Probably time for a permanent Australia-wide ban on both gathering wood and having open fires anywhere, any time
Pretty hard to leave no trace AND have campfires
mm! Not really THAT hard!
I can leave you a camp site of say a weeks duration, where by the only sign of us being there would be the tyre tracks in and out again. Just a bit of spade and rake work will cover up even a fire place. We were brought up to do so back in the real ancient of days - that is the 1950's
Absolutely agree Ian.Takes little time to do the right thing....waaaay back I was taught "Take only photos,and leave nothing but footprints." Bit hard not to leave tyre tracks,but absolutely no excuse,except perhaps laziness,to leave anything else,surely? Cheers
Tony LEE said
07:55 PM Nov 21, 2020
Bit like dog **** and toilet paper and rubbish. So easy to NOT leave it that you wonder why there is so much around.
Must be backpackers and locals.
Mike Harding said
08:59 PM Nov 21, 2020
Tony LEE wrote:
Bit like dog **** and toilet paper and rubbish. So easy to NOT leave it that you wonder why there is so much around. Must be backpackers and locals.
In my extensive experience locals are usually the worst offenders.
Tony Bev said
09:24 PM Nov 21, 2020
It does make me wonder, as everyone by now, would know of the recent wildfires in Australia
I sometimes think that perhaps, the people deliberately leaving campfires, while it is still burning, are potential arsonist
Perhaps they think that leaving a campfire burning, will not bring suspicion on to them
They could claim that they thought that the fire was out, and after they left, the wind must have fanned it alight again
RichardK said
10:48 AM Nov 22, 2020
Yes, we are the same whether camped overnight or sometimes for up to 4 weeks, always, always clean up if any mess and leave the site as good as, if not better than it was, including extinguishing the camp fire (if allowed) with water.
We spend a lot of time in the bush areas and have a deep respect for it.
RichardK
dorian said
12:05 PM Nov 22, 2020
DELWP's chief conservation officer Kate Gavens said the number of unattended campfires was a worry.
"We know that 10 per cent of our bushfires are caused by bushfire negligence so it's really important that people follow the rules in relation to campfire safety," Ms Gavens said.
Brodie Allen said
01:20 PM Nov 22, 2020
Since over 85% of fires are people caused, I'm all for reporting negligent and
unlawful fire operation.
I have on three occasions reported same and have been very happy in two
cases to see ranger and police within minutes.
I photograph and pic numberplate. I have no qualms about doing so whatsoever.
I see it as a civic duty.
In fact, it amazes me why an overnighter will raid the woodland, light a fire and often
POQ back into the van, and leave it smouldering unattended till morning.
Must be some primeval bogan instinct. "She'll be right, mate"!!
Mobi Condo said
09:52 PM Nov 22, 2020
We have on three separate occasions, in widely spaced spots across the "island" since 1985, come cross camps spots for the night where there were red hot coals left to what ever fate may occur.
We enjoyed the instant fire of course and dealt with it before sleeping, BUT it gives me the heebies when we know also of 5 separate reports of some poor unfortunate kids being savagely burnt by "hidden " ashes of fires left the same as we have found over the same period.
Hence the practice of fires out with water, then cover with overburden dug to make the fire pit.
Tony LEE said
10:14 PM Nov 22, 2020
"Since over 85% of fires are people caused, I'm all for reporting negligent and
unlawful fire operation."
Pretty sure the number of bushfires caused by people is well under 10% and lightning is the main culprit. Still, given that one fire that is deliberately lit (as was one back burn last season) can kill and destroy, then reporting is the right action
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/victoria-bushfire-fears-over-campfires/12894632
I'm curious as to where the figure of $39,652 comes from. Why not $40K? Why $496 and not $500?
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 19th of November 2020 01:49:47 PM
Tell me about it!
Last year, on this forum, I stated I would photograph and report people who did this and I got a bit of grief for it.
All I can say to the w@ankers who do such is that I shall photograph and report you *again* this year and I care not one one jot if you don't like that!
Obviously Vic farmers are up in arms about it mostly due to liability issues. Who is liable if a camper/s are injured on the land and who is responsible cleaning up any mess left behind, not to mention damage to bio security of farms, injuries to animals etc.
Policing will also be an issue as while access is OK and camping is OK, there is absolutely no mention of any type of vehicle access being allowed.
To me it is another huge can of worms being opened by an incompetent government.
But that being said, it was passed in the upper house by even the Shooters, Fishers (the most advantaged group), Farmers Party, other than just the usual labor imitation toadies of the other minor parties.
39652 = 2 x 2 x 23 x 431
It's still a strange number.
However numbers don't change the fact that there are mongrels out there that leave fires going unattended.They obviously don't give two hoots as to the destruction fires can do. They would be the sort of person to be first to complain if a fire destroyed their home and property or worse still, a family member or very close friend.
Grab 'em by the neck and name and shame on the Televish then throw the book at 'em. No excuse covers what they have done.
This is so common across most states and territories - the main reason I have / had trouble watching "Yes Minister" is that it so close to the bone, being an ex Public Servant at lower levels trying to comply with Building Standards Australia etc., who was expected by the higher levels to actually SERVE the public and then see the outcomes of exercises presented to the world sometimes even being changed after the reports went to them to go against the BCA 1990 as it was then.
I agree with Mikes take on this, and have done the same over time and one gets a bit of "fun" from it as well, specially when the parties doing the deeds realize that they are "sprung badly" and have even threatened me with violence! I would not want to be in the shoes of the poor dudes just doing their job and who got shot by land holders for it out back of Moree a few years back though!
Then there is the problem that in some places there shouldn't be any camp fires in the first place.....
At Ess Lagoon at the moment where signs at the entrance prohibit open fires. Went for a stroll last night and heard a chainsaw roaring in the middle of trees ans shrubs that had been planted. Stopped when they saw me and moved back into the bush. I suggested it was a protected habitat area rather than a source of wood for their camp fire and they retorted that the tree was dead so...
I left it on the basis that the ranger would be along to educate them on the right thing to do. Then further on there was another camper with a fire going - albeit in a raised steel stove and they might have brought their own wood but....
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Saturday 21st of November 2020 09:22:41 AM
Probably time for a permanent Australia-wide ban on both gathering wood and having open fires anywhere, any time
Pretty hard to leave no trace AND have campfires
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Saturday 21st of November 2020 09:21:39 AM
mm! Not really THAT hard!
I can leave you a camp site of say a weeks duration, where by the only sign of us being there would be the tyre tracks in and out again. Just a bit of spade and rake work will cover up even a fire place. We were brought up to do so back in the real ancient of days - that is the 1950's
We can free camp for a week or more and have a fire every day,and leave it in a pristine condition.
Always leave it better than we found it.
Absolutely agree Ian.Takes little time to do the right thing....waaaay back I was taught "Take only photos,and leave nothing but footprints." Bit hard not to leave tyre tracks,but absolutely no excuse,except perhaps laziness,to leave anything else,surely?
Cheers
In my extensive experience locals are usually the worst offenders.
I sometimes think that perhaps, the people deliberately leaving campfires, while it is still burning, are potential arsonist
Perhaps they think that leaving a campfire burning, will not bring suspicion on to them
They could claim that they thought that the fire was out, and after they left, the wind must have fanned it alight again
We spend a lot of time in the bush areas and have a deep respect for it.
RichardK
unlawful fire operation.
I have on three occasions reported same and have been very happy in two
cases to see ranger and police within minutes.
I photograph and pic numberplate. I have no qualms about doing so whatsoever.
I see it as a civic duty.
In fact, it amazes me why an overnighter will raid the woodland, light a fire and often
POQ back into the van, and leave it smouldering unattended till morning.
Must be some primeval bogan instinct. "She'll be right, mate"!!
We enjoyed the instant fire of course and dealt with it before sleeping, BUT it gives me the heebies when we know also of 5 separate reports of some poor unfortunate kids being savagely burnt by "hidden " ashes of fires left the same as we have found over the same period.
Hence the practice of fires out with water, then cover with overburden dug to make the fire pit.
The Fraser Island bushfire was man made:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-27/fraser-island-fire-bushfire-world-heritage-campfire/12926598
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-24/fraser-island-fire-hope-for-cool-change/12914780