A while back I seem to recall that someone asked if the towing capacity was affected by inverting the towbar shank? (Tongue). Finally I have found the picture that I was looking for at that time.This may be of interest to those of us who tow big heavy vans with Toyotas,as using the tongue incorrectly could compromise an insurance payout in the event of a claim being lodged.Cheers
you still have a ball weight of 350 kg and as you have pointed out enough times a 200 series can not tow 3500 legally so for a 200 series it makes no difference
Warren-Pat_01 said
06:19 PM Dec 20, 2020
Tks yobarr,
The engineers amongst us could tell us why the difference- something to do with the downward pulling effect of the two angles.
Jaahn said
06:45 PM Dec 20, 2020
withdrawn !
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 20th of December 2020 06:46:46 PM
yobarr said
06:52 PM Dec 20, 2020
boab wrote:
you still have a ball weight of 350 kg and as you have pointed out enough times a 200 series can not tow 3500 legally so for a 200 series it makes no difference
Thanks Gary,for pointing out that the 200 series cannot safely tow more than 3000kg ATM as a PIG trailer,and would not need a TBM of more than 300kg,but I simply was following up on a previous post where I was unable to locate the provided information.Cheers.
Possum3 said
09:09 AM Dec 21, 2020
Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
The engineers amongst us could tell us why the difference- something to do with the downward pulling effect of the two angles.
As there is no differential in friction to consider, you therefore consider turning force, on a straight pull (force). You find differential displacements by calculating the distance between an objects initial position and its final position. These calculation should be done on both towball shank positions.
Safe working loads are usually calculated by dividing multiple actual test breaking force by a safety factor of 3 or 5.
Rob Driver said
09:19 AM Dec 21, 2020
Hi folks
To add to the information posted above that warning and advice is not for all Toyotas.
For example the 200 towbar is non optional, all 200s have them from the factory. The tow bar is an integral part of the chassis
The tow bar PZQ64-60074 Is not for a 200 Series but it is actually for a 76 - 79 series.
The tongue PZQ63-60074 suits the 76 - 79 series tow bar and is not the tongue recommended by Toyota for the 200 series.
The 200 Series towing kit is listed as PZQ6360140 and it consists of the tongue PZQ6360141 and the tow ball PZQ6160490
With a bit of research there are many different specifications for each model Toyota. Obviously a Prado and a Hilux will be different again.
Here is a pic of the rear of a 200 series showing the fitting of the genuine 200 Series tongue inserted into the integral to the chassis, tow bar.
To add to the above I had reason to buy another tow bar tongue to correct the height of a boat that I had a need to tow and I bought the tongue from a reputable tow bar supplier. The tongue was actually bolted to the shank to enable slight adjustments and that tongue assembly was rated at 3500 kg wether used to raise or to lower the drawbar height. I did not need the rating to be that high but that is just how it came. I would also be wary of any part of a towing attachment that was supplied by any of those large cheap parts places as they will be more than likely made in China and may not comply.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Monday 21st of December 2020 09:37:34 AM
Possum3 said
09:36 AM Dec 21, 2020
It seems that the Prado and LC200 additionally have differing sized throats for tongues as well - My Patrol tongue will fit Mate's 200 but not Son's Prado.
Rob Driver said
09:40 AM Dec 21, 2020
Possum3 wrote:
It seems that the Prado and LC200 additionally have differing sized throats for tongues as well - My Patrol tongue will fit Mate's 200 but not Son's Prado.
That is a good point as well.
The Prado has a lower towing capacity as far as I know so they possibly made the shank smaller to maybe save some weight.
Regards
Rob
Greg 1 said
06:01 PM Dec 21, 2020
The reason for the difference is more than likely because of the load path.
If you look at the higher rated diagram, the ball is almost on the centre line of the tongue so the load path in tension is almost a straight line, whereas the lesser one, the ball is well above the tongue centre line, so the load path is not straight. This will cause a drop in safe load capacity due to the additional moment being applied to the tongue.
yobarr said
06:42 PM Dec 21, 2020
Greg 1 wrote:
The reason for the difference is more than likely because of the load path. If you look at the higher rated diagram, the ball is almost on the centre line of the tongue so the load path in tension is almost a straight line, whereas the lesser one, the ball is well above the tongue centre line, so the load path is not straight. This will cause a drop in safe load capacity due to the additional moment being applied to the tongue.
Great analysis Greg...I hadn't even considered that,but it is so simple,isn't it? Well done! Cheers
A while back I seem to recall that someone asked if the towing capacity was affected by inverting the towbar shank? (Tongue). Finally I have found the picture that I was looking for at that time.This may be of interest to those of us who tow big heavy vans with Toyotas,as using the tongue incorrectly could compromise an insurance payout in the event of a claim being lodged.Cheers
The engineers amongst us could tell us why the difference- something to do with the downward pulling effect of the two angles.
withdrawn !
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 20th of December 2020 06:46:46 PM
Thanks Gary,for pointing out that the 200 series cannot safely tow more than 3000kg ATM as a PIG trailer,and would not need a TBM of more than 300kg,but I simply was following up on a previous post where I was unable to locate the provided information.Cheers.
As there is no differential in friction to consider, you therefore consider turning force, on a straight pull (force). You find differential displacements by calculating the distance between an objects initial position and its final position. These calculation should be done on both towball shank positions.
Safe working loads are usually calculated by dividing multiple actual test breaking force by a safety factor of 3 or 5.
Hi folks
To add to the information posted above that warning and advice is not for all Toyotas.
For example the 200 towbar is non optional, all 200s have them from the factory.
The tow bar is an integral part of the chassis
The tow bar
PZQ64-60074
Is not for a 200 Series but it is actually for a 76 - 79 series.
The tongue
PZQ63-60074
suits the 76 - 79 series tow bar and is not the tongue recommended by Toyota for the 200 series.
The 200 Series towing kit is listed as
PZQ6360140
and it consists of the tongue
PZQ6360141
and the tow ball
PZQ6160490
With a bit of research there are many different specifications for each model Toyota. Obviously a Prado and a Hilux will be different again.
Here is a pic of the rear of a 200 series showing the fitting of the genuine 200 Series tongue inserted into the integral to the chassis, tow bar.
Regards
Rob
To add to the above I had reason to buy another tow bar tongue to correct the height of a boat that I had a need to tow and I bought the tongue from a reputable tow bar supplier.
The tongue was actually bolted to the shank to enable slight adjustments and that tongue assembly was rated at 3500 kg wether used to raise or to lower the drawbar height.
I did not need the rating to be that high but that is just how it came.
I would also be wary of any part of a towing attachment that was supplied by any of those large cheap parts places as they will be more than likely made in China and may not comply.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Monday 21st of December 2020 09:37:34 AM
That is a good point as well.
The Prado has a lower towing capacity as far as I know so they possibly made the shank smaller to maybe save some weight.
Regards
Rob
Great analysis Greg...I hadn't even considered that,but it is so simple,isn't it? Well done! Cheers