Yesterday (New Years Day) was interesting. Our daughter was visiting us in Cooma NSW from Queensland, and because of the border closures coming from everywhere, they decided that it was only a mater of time before the Queensland border closes as well, so they packed up and headed North to Goondiwindi. There were only 6 cars ahead of them at the border and because they had the correct paperwork already printed out they had no problems in getting back into Queensland. I had printed out a list of motels in Goondiwindi and their phone numbers in case their chosen motel had no rooms left. Well, none of the motels they tried had any rooms left, so they had to travel on to Toowoomba.
They said that there was a lot of Victorian traffic heading South along the Newell Highway. This was understandable, but they were surprised by the number of Queensland vehicles also heading South. But later in the day, we had a phonecall from a friend who used to own a unit in a block of flats in Merimbula NSW. Apparently, Merimbula has had a sudden death - all Victorians have fled back across the border. The manager of the Merimbula units had received a call from one of the guests saying that it took them 8.5 hours to get from Merimbula to Cann River - a journey which normally takes 1.5 hours. One 10 km section (presumably the border check point) took 3 hours to travel 10 km. Also, the queue to the toilets in the park at Cann River had were very long indeed. I guess that the cafes and service stations in Cann River must have had a field day (they probably ran out of all stock and supplies).
This Covid virus thing has a lot to answer for...... I wonder how the other border crossings faired yesterday.
-- Edited by erad on Saturday 2nd of January 2021 09:24:36 AM
Whenarewethere said
09:37 AM Jan 2, 2021
Sydney Northern Beaches borders. We are not allowed out.
Walked to Manly the other day via the back streets for exercise. So much was closed including most of the food outlets, it's just too much of a headache for them to open.
Manly is going to look like an increasingly dead place with the ever increasing numbers of commercial properties for lease.
There is just not enough customers to pay for the hugh rents businesses have to pay.
Mike Harding said
10:12 AM Jan 2, 2021
Two friends I was due to meet in east Gippsland in the middle of Jan are now stranded near Eden so our meeting won't happen.
NSW really should learn from the situation in Vic this year; make masks compulsory, stop the bloody test match!, ban public gatherings over X people etc. Do it now and they won't need to do it for long but carry on dithering and it could get really nasty.
Me? Think I'll stay in this beautiful small forest for a while longer, been here two weeks and not seen a soul: got phone, TV, infinite firewood and a dam for washing/laundry water - for what more could a nomad ask? :)
dogbox said
10:20 AM Jan 2, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
Two friends I was due to meet in east Gippsland in the middle of Jan are now stranded near Eden so our meeting won't happen.
NSW really should learn from the situation in Vic this year; make masks compulsory, stop the bloody test match!, ban public gatherings over X people etc. Do it now and they won't need to do it for long but carry on dithering and it could get really nasty.
Me? Think I'll stay in this beautiful small forest for a while longer, been here two weeks and not seen a soul: got phone, TV, infinite firewood and a dam for washing/laundry water - for what more could a nomad ask? :)
a couple of cold beers an you could be set for life
Mike Harding said
10:51 AM Jan 2, 2021
dogbox wrote:a couple of cold beers an you could be set for life
I forgot to mention a supply of cider, wine and whisky plus a fridge freezer to keep them cool :)
Craig1 said
10:58 AM Jan 2, 2021
Albury Wodonga is a total faux pas. One couple interviewed travelled for 12 hours via Bathurst from Sydney to get back to Vic. Made it by 5 minutes.
Teo said
04:28 PM Jan 2, 2021
Mike. I agree. Stop the test match. They say just 24,000 at the SCG will be spread out around the ground. But what about at the entrance gates, food stalls etc. I think those in charge cant swallow their pride and go back on their decisions.
Stay safe everyone.
dogbox said
05:47 PM Jan 2, 2021
Teo wrote:
Mike. I agree. Stop the test match. They say just 24,000 at the SCG will be spread out around the ground. But what about at the entrance gates, food stalls etc. I think those in charge cant swallow their pride and go back on their decisions.
Stay safe everyone.
let the cricket happen just no crowds till this out break gets sorted
Wannabe nomad said
05:51 PM Jan 2, 2021
So glad I decided on a brief Xmas visit to the Grandkids in Vic rather than staying till after new year, because although the S.A. boarder is still open, it's good to be home drama free.
Also glad I took the precaution of doing most of the shopping in S.A. before we left so we were able to avoid shopping in Fountaingate, so we are unlikely to have been exposed.
But most of all so glad we got to make meaningful memories with the little ones before things started to go bunta again.
My heart goes out to all of you who are missing family.
It's hard and frustrating living with the uncertainty and the closures ext. But trust me it's better then the alternative, my sister-in-law is a nurse in the U.K. and what she has seen is not pretty. She is young and healthy but is struggling to get her strength back after catching Covid and has a cough that will not go away.
roker said
05:45 AM Jan 3, 2021
Hi THANK GOD LIVE IN W.A.,Hard borders up to now stopped it getting over here.
Heart goes out to the Eastern States.cheers roker
TheHeaths said
08:46 AM Jan 3, 2021
Just some food for thought.
People in WA need to be aware. There are cases of Covid19 in that state. It is not Cv19 free, they are people in quarantine who have the disease, and as such there is a risk, low they it may be.
Just as it escaped from quarantine in SA and Victoria, where the systems were considered safe, it will only take one wrong or silly move, and it may be back into the community. Any system that has people and decisions involved is not 100% secure.
I hope it doesnt happen, but dont think hard borders are a guarantee of protection. SA and Victoria prove they arent!
Wanda said
09:03 AM Jan 3, 2021
People in WA and here in SA only have covid cases due to people still coming back to Australia(most if not all). I think this should have or could have been dealt with better than it is.
While we allow people back the risk(huge) is still out there.
We are quick to close our internal borders, maybe its time to consider harder restrictions on returning oversees Australians and the quarantining procedures.
regards
Ian
roker said
11:41 AM Jan 3, 2021
Dead Right,We had a few nutcases escaped from hotels,got them back quick,tested negative.
Hotel lockup is the weak link everwhere.
Victoria by all media reports here,Hotel Security people used had no proper training ,looks like a bent deal when contracts let out.
Reports defence personal offered,refusedby Vic goverment.cheers roker.
msg said
12:22 PM Jan 3, 2021
If they are returning to Australia, lock everyone up. No exceptions. By that I mean the returnees not the general population. If the returnees were handled properly, then there would be no need to lock up and restrict the general population.
-- Edited by msg on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 12:25:20 PM
Wanda said
12:47 PM Jan 3, 2021
Yes I think they need to go hard on all returning overseas travellers, consider making the rules for returning tougher. For those who have "chosen" to either live(part time) or work overseas you go to the very back of the list or stay put! Those that are returning to Australia, they should be isolated, NOT IN CITY HOTELS! but elsewhere
Lets face it, its only for 2 weeks. regards Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 12:49:44 PM
-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 01:28:30 PM
-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 01:30:38 PM
Tony Bev said
07:36 PM Jan 3, 2021
Unfortunately at the moment, the only way to stop the spread of Covid-19, into different States/Territories is by internal border closures
Also unfortunately, people who wanted to cross the borders, are having a hard time of it
There is always going to be uncertainties, while Covid-19 is around
Although I do feel for those who have been caught out, I can also see the reason for the border closures
We also have to ask ourselves, can we believe those who say, that they have not come into contact with any positive cases, as they may not know that they have
Not wanting to go off topic but, not all people can be trusted to tell the truth
I have read about people in Indonesia being barred from Taiwan, because they had purchased Covid-19 negative cards, without having a test
bgt said
11:14 AM Jan 4, 2021
I know I'm the odd one out here. But talking of those you can't believe. How about the media? Todays headlines read 'NSW struggling to contain out break'. Well NSW recorded 0 cases today. Victoria 3. So are we going to live an uncertain life forever as the virus will be with us forever.
When are folks going to concede that elimination isn't possible. Learning to live with it is possible.
dogbox said
12:13 PM Jan 4, 2021
bgt wrote:
I know I'm the odd one out here. But talking of those you can't believe. How about the media? Todays headlines read 'NSW struggling to contain out break'. Well NSW recorded 0 cases today. Victoria 3. So are we going to live an uncertain life forever as the virus will be with us forever.
When are folks going to concede that elimination isn't possible. Learning to live with it is possible.
are you not glad you don't live in the USA/UK ect (they think like you) with your health issues you may have expired all ready, thousand dyeing every day, hospitals over capacity no treatment for other illness as all resources tied up with covid
maybe in 3 months (march ?) you can go live the life you think your entitled too. if we can keep it under control till the vaccine has some effect one way or an other but if it gets away now how much harder / longer will it be to recover
Wannabe nomad said
12:38 PM Jan 4, 2021
My dad (who lived in the U.K.) died of Covid during the 1st wave. Only 3 people were allowed to his funeral (obviously not me) he lived in aged care he was unable to be taken to hospital because they were full. In an emergency situation like a pandemic it has to be the most likely to survive that get treatment; I understand that and he probably would have died anyway. But he was my dad and I loved him. Please be patient and learn to live with border closers and the uncertainties all this causes UNTIL we have vaccinations universally rolled out. Because, just letting it run it's course is an inhumane option.
Tony Bev said
02:07 PM Jan 4, 2021
When are folks going to concede that elimination isn't possible. Learning to live with it is possible.
As an answer to the above statement
Recent history, (within the previous three months), shows that Australia did eliminate Covid-19
It has taken a hold again, because people who had been overseas, (and probably thought that they did not have it), brought it with them
One reason I am not prepared to live with Covid-19, is because I can not trust my fellow men to tell the truth, when they do the wrong thing Doing the wrong thing, and/or lying about it, can only help spread Covid-19
I point out that the outgoing, President of the United States of America, is claiming that the Covid-19 number deaths, have been grossly exaggerated
At the same time, his top infectious diseases expert, says that the numbers are real
Both of the above men, are in very powerful positions of authority, I am not saying that one of them is outright lying I am saying that as both of them can not be correct, then perhaps one of them is either mistaken, or being a bit economical with the truth
The link below is a very recent newspaper article, of the above two men difference of opinions
Opps, and egg on my face again The link is to the Financial Times newspaper, and when I just clicked to see that the link is working, they want payment for looking
-- Edited by Tony Bev on Monday 4th of January 2021 02:11:58 PM
bgt said
02:15 PM Jan 4, 2021
Everyone is ignoring my question. Even with a vaccine the virus will still be around. So I ask again. At what point do we learn to live with the virus?
People die on the roads all the time. We accept that risk. Every time you get on the road you are taking a risk. Yet we can stop the road toll tomorrow by banning driving. We don't accept that banning driving is a viable option. We don't ban smoking but we manage the risk with various actions. Yet folks still take that risk. Passive smoking kills yet we still accept smoking as a risk.
My point is that eliminating covid maynot/isn't an option. So how do we live with it?
The common flu kills. Yet we take and manage the risk with vaccines that still don't guarantee a flu free society. Will covid be any different?
We can get Australia covid free. Sure we can. But do we stop all international travel ? All international trade? No planes with people or freight. No ships bringing in good and sending out exports. So Australia will always be vulnerable to new out breaks. Do we shut down everytime?
I know many folks have lost all their logic and reasoning with covid. The media has scared everyone with dramatic headlines. Rather than exploring ways to live with covid we are trying to pretend it will go away and we will all live happily ever after.
I know I'm preaching to those who have fixed views. But I'm just asking to look at the big picture. Sure I have personal interests but I'm also realistic enough to know that we have to have measures to manage covid. And locking everything up isn't the answer.
dogbox said
03:37 PM Jan 4, 2021
bgt wrote:
Everyone is ignoring my question. Even with a vaccine the virus will still be around. So I ask again. At what point do we learn to live with the virus?
People die on the roads all the time. We accept that risk. Every time you get on the road you are taking a risk. Yet we can stop the road toll tomorrow by banning driving. We don't accept that banning driving is a viable option. We don't ban smoking but we manage the risk with various actions. Yet folks still take that risk. Passive smoking kills yet we still accept smoking as a risk.
My point is that eliminating covid maynot/isn't an option. So how do we live with it? The common flu kills. Yet we take and manage the risk with vaccines that still don't guarantee a flu free society. Will covid be any different?
We can get Australia covid free. Sure we can. But do we stop all international travel ? All international trade? No planes with people or freight. No ships bringing in good and sending out exports. So Australia will always be vulnerable to new out breaks. Do we shut down everytime?
I know many folks have lost all their logic and reasoning with covid. The media has scared everyone with dramatic headlines. Rather than exploring ways to live with covid we are trying to pretend it will go away and we will all live happily ever after.
I know I'm preaching to those who have fixed views. But I'm just asking to look at the big picture. Sure I have personal interests but I'm also realistic enough to know that we have to have measures to manage covid. And locking everything up isn't the answer.
we might be a bit restricted but we are not locked up, we have plenty of freedom .
some people just never seem to be happy with what they have
Tony Bev said
04:56 PM Jan 4, 2021
Hi bgt Without giving or taking any offence, I will attempt to answer your latest questions
I speak only for myself
Everyone is ignoring my question. Even with a vaccine the virus will still be around. So I ask again. At what point do we learn to live with the virus? I will happy live my life around the virus, when someone can prove, that the rest of mankind, do the right thing and follow directions, when they are told to quarantine, so that they do not become spreaders
People die on the roads all the time. We accept that risk. Every time you get on the road you are taking a risk. Yet we can stop the road toll tomorrow by banning driving. We don't accept that banning driving is a viable option. When I go on the road, I have the choice of being a responsible driver, with a very good chance of surviving my journey. If I was an irresponsible driver, driving like I stole it/speeding/tied/boozed/drugged/mechanical defects etc, etc, etc. I probably would not realise, that I was a statistic waiting to happen
We don't ban smoking but we manage the risk with various actions. Yet folks still take that risk. Passive smoking kills yet we still accept smoking as a risk. Some people are still addicted to smoking, (it took me about 10 years of trying, before I could give it up). The authorities are trying to stamp it out. I am still young enough to remember some health people saying, that there is no conclusive proof, that smoking causes cancer.
My point is that eliminating covid maynot/isn't an option. So how do we live with it? We live with Covid-19, and all its known mutants, by obeying the directions of the health authorities.
The common flu kills. Yet we take and manage the risk with vaccines that still don't guarantee a flu free society. Will covid be any different? Perhaps not, as it is probably too late to eliminate all the known mutants of flu, but while Covid-19 is still young, there may be a chance of eliminating it
We can get Australia covid free. Sure we can. But do we stop all international travel ? All international trade? No planes with people or freight. No ships bringing in good and sending out exports. So Australia will always be vulnerable to new out breaks. Do we shut down everytime? We do not have much options, except to shut down every time there is an outbreak, otherwise Covid-19 could overwhelm our medical facilities
I know many folks have lost all their logic and reasoning with covid. The media has scared everyone with dramatic headlines. Rather than exploring ways to live with covid we are trying to pretend it will go away and we will all live happily ever after. There is nothing stopping anyone, anywhere, trying to explore ways of living with Covid-19. If someone can find a way to do so, then I would probably embrace it.
I know I'm preaching to those who have fixed views. But I'm just asking to look at the big picture. Sure I have personal interests but I'm also realistic enough to know that we have to have measures to manage covid. And locking everything up isn't the answer. I like to think, that I do not have fixed views. I try to look at both sides of an argument. Up to date I have not seen anything better than total lockdowns, to stop the Covid-19, from marching onwards towards me, my loved ones, my family, my friends, my town, my State, and my Country
bgt said
05:04 PM Jan 4, 2021
Thanks Tony Bev. I don't necessarily agree with you but I appreciate your input. But you do make valid points. Too many folks just comment without giving much thought to the consequences of their comments.
Greg 1 said
05:38 PM Jan 4, 2021
Well said Tony. Pretty much nailed it.
dogbox said
07:03 PM Jan 4, 2021
i was under the impression we were managing to live with it. we might have to to adapt an change and deal with things differently including those inconsiderate border closures .sooner or later the borders will re-open
Tony LEE said
07:29 PM Jan 4, 2021
A lot of it comes down to how transmissible a disease is, how lethal it is, and how easy it is to control.
Look at polio, smallpox, measles. Should we have given up on those just because success wasn't a 5 minute job.
Flu? Not too transmissible and not too lethal and control is gradually improving.
Covid-19 - seems very transmissible, especially the new variant, not particularly lethal unless you are in the same group which also cop it from the flu
So that leaves controllability. Why are some of you throwing in the towel just as a whole heap of vaccines are being rolled out. I'm glad the scientists and politicians are considerably more optimistic than the wingers and defeatists
landy said
10:44 PM Jan 4, 2021
I heard yesterday that an elderly Brother and Sister in law in the UK, both in there 80's that I am very fond of have been admitted to hospital with Covid. I spoke to them both on Christmas day and they were bubbly and full of life. I wish to hell The UK government had been as responsible as the governments over here have been and not treated peoples lives as acceptable risks. Maybe they would still have been at home waiting for my next call. Landy
-- Edited by landy on Monday 4th of January 2021 10:52:32 PM
-- Edited by landy on Monday 4th of January 2021 11:39:20 PM
bgt said
08:42 AM Jan 5, 2021
I have a data and statistic background. So I'm always looking at the figures/facts.
We know the facts but many tend to ignore them. There have been 2 covid related deaths in Australia in about 5 months. We know that those most affected and in danger are those over 70. We know from the ABS figures that many elderly die from flu like illnesses not related to covid. www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
We also know our weak link is the international border.
So why isn't there a greater emphasis on protecting the vulnerable and our international border?
I'm not saying we should throw our collective hands in the air and do what Sweden tried to do. Sure there are measures we can all live with and accept. But we need to put everything into perspective.
And comparing Australia to other countries like the USA and the UK is a pointless argument. Other countries have unique circumstances that don't exist here in Australia. I lived in the USA for about 8 years. I know how many think about 'restrictions' etc. The UK has a population density that's unlike Australia. So many variables. (Compare France with Germany. Why the big difference there?)
Imagine how many lives we would have saved now and into the future if just a fraction of the covid money had been spent on research for breast cancer, prostrate cancer, etc etc.
Keep it all in perspective. If you are worried for your own personal health do what I do and take responsibility for it. Avoid crowds. Wash your hand etc etc. Don't rely on governments to look after you 24 hours a day.
Don't just look at the pessimistic headlines. Look at covid from all angles and keep it all in perspective.
Yes I accept some will cherry pick what I have said. That's normal!
TheHeaths said
08:42 AM Jan 5, 2021
dogbox wrote:
i was under the impression we were managing to live with it. we might have to to adapt an change and deal with things differently including those inconsiderate border closures .sooner or later the borders will re-open
I agree dogbox!
While it may not suit everyone, border closures and restrictions are the method of dealing with it that our State Governments have chosen at present. Our Federal Government has chosen not to close totally our international borders. That is the way they have chosen for us to live with it at present.
Those management plans will change as other management tools such as the vaccine become available, as they should. While it is not ideal, it is a plan, it is working, and we do have, with the exception of interstate recreational travel, a reasonably normal type of existence compared to other places in the world. Normal has changed somewhat, as it did after 911, after the wars, and following any major world event.
We have been impacted in the past 12 months with trips cancelled, and plans interrupted, but we have managed, we have and will adapt, and we will make the best of things.
Unfortunately, everyone has different views of what should and could be done. Some think too much is being done, others not enough. I can guarantee one thing. Its not going to change until either other measures are available, or our Governments change! Personally I hope other measures become available rather than having to wait for political change.
Yesterday (New Years Day) was interesting. Our daughter was visiting us in Cooma NSW from Queensland, and because of the border closures coming from everywhere, they decided that it was only a mater of time before the Queensland border closes as well, so they packed up and headed North to Goondiwindi. There were only 6 cars ahead of them at the border and because they had the correct paperwork already printed out they had no problems in getting back into Queensland. I had printed out a list of motels in Goondiwindi and their phone numbers in case their chosen motel had no rooms left. Well, none of the motels they tried had any rooms left, so they had to travel on to Toowoomba.
They said that there was a lot of Victorian traffic heading South along the Newell Highway. This was understandable, but they were surprised by the number of Queensland vehicles also heading South. But later in the day, we had a phonecall from a friend who used to own a unit in a block of flats in Merimbula NSW. Apparently, Merimbula has had a sudden death - all Victorians have fled back across the border. The manager of the Merimbula units had received a call from one of the guests saying that it took them 8.5 hours to get from Merimbula to Cann River - a journey which normally takes 1.5 hours. One 10 km section (presumably the border check point) took 3 hours to travel 10 km. Also, the queue to the toilets in the park at Cann River had were very long indeed. I guess that the cafes and service stations in Cann River must have had a field day (they probably ran out of all stock and supplies).
This Covid virus thing has a lot to answer for...... I wonder how the other border crossings faired yesterday.
-- Edited by erad on Saturday 2nd of January 2021 09:24:36 AM
Sydney Northern Beaches borders. We are not allowed out.
Walked to Manly the other day via the back streets for exercise. So much was closed including most of the food outlets, it's just too much of a headache for them to open.
Manly is going to look like an increasingly dead place with the ever increasing numbers of commercial properties for lease.
There is just not enough customers to pay for the hugh rents businesses have to pay.
Two friends I was due to meet in east Gippsland in the middle of Jan are now stranded near Eden so our meeting won't happen.
NSW really should learn from the situation in Vic this year; make masks compulsory, stop the bloody test match!, ban public gatherings over X people etc. Do it now and they won't need to do it for long but carry on dithering and it could get really nasty.
Me? Think I'll stay in this beautiful small forest for a while longer, been here two weeks and not seen a soul: got phone, TV, infinite firewood and a dam for washing/laundry water - for what more could a nomad ask? :)
a couple of cold beers an you could be set for life
I forgot to mention a supply of cider, wine and whisky plus a fridge freezer to keep them cool :)
Stay safe everyone.
let the cricket happen just no crowds till this out break gets sorted
Also glad I took the precaution of doing most of the shopping in S.A. before we left so we were able to avoid shopping in Fountaingate, so we are unlikely to have been exposed.
But most of all so glad we got to make meaningful memories with the little ones before things started to go bunta again.
My heart goes out to all of you who are missing family.
It's hard and frustrating living with the uncertainty and the closures ext. But trust me it's better then the alternative, my sister-in-law is a nurse in the U.K. and what she has seen is not pretty. She is young and healthy but is struggling to get her strength back after catching Covid and has a cough that will not go away.
Hi THANK GOD LIVE IN W.A.,Hard borders up to now stopped it getting over here.
Heart goes out to the Eastern States.cheers roker
People in WA need to be aware. There are cases of Covid19 in that state. It is not Cv19 free, they are people in quarantine who have the disease, and as such there is a risk, low they it may be.
Just as it escaped from quarantine in SA and Victoria, where the systems were considered safe, it will only take one wrong or silly move, and it may be back into the community. Any system that has people and decisions involved is not 100% secure.
I hope it doesnt happen, but dont think hard borders are a guarantee of protection. SA and Victoria prove they arent!
While we allow people back the risk(huge) is still out there.
We are quick to close our internal borders, maybe its time to consider harder restrictions on returning oversees Australians and the quarantining procedures.
regards
Ian
Dead Right,We had a few nutcases escaped from hotels,got them back quick,tested negative.
Hotel lockup is the weak link everwhere.
Victoria by all media reports here,Hotel Security people used had no proper training ,looks like a bent deal when contracts let out.
Reports defence personal offered,refusedby Vic goverment.cheers roker.
If they are returning to Australia, lock everyone up. No exceptions. By that I mean the returnees not the general population. If the returnees were handled properly, then there would be no need to lock up and restrict the general population.
-- Edited by msg on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 12:25:20 PM
Yes I think they need to go hard on all returning overseas travellers, consider making the rules for returning tougher.
For those who have "chosen" to either live(part time) or work overseas you go to the very back of the list or stay put!
Those that are returning to Australia, they should be isolated, NOT IN CITY HOTELS! but elsewhere
Lets face it, its only for 2 weeks.
regards
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 12:49:44 PM
-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 01:28:30 PM
-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 01:30:38 PM
Also unfortunately, people who wanted to cross the borders, are having a hard time of it
There is always going to be uncertainties, while Covid-19 is around
Although I do feel for those who have been caught out, I can also see the reason for the border closures
We also have to ask ourselves, can we believe those who say, that they have not come into contact with any positive cases, as they may not know that they have
Not wanting to go off topic but, not all people can be trusted to tell the truth
I have read about people in Indonesia being barred from Taiwan, because they had purchased Covid-19 negative cards, without having a test
When are folks going to concede that elimination isn't possible. Learning to live with it is possible.
are you not glad you don't live in the USA/UK ect (they think like you) with your health issues you may have expired all ready, thousand dyeing every day, hospitals over capacity no treatment for other illness as all resources tied up with covid
maybe in 3 months (march ?) you can go live the life you think your entitled too. if we can keep it under control till the vaccine has some effect one way or an other but if it gets away now how much harder / longer will it be to recover
My dad (who lived in the U.K.) died of Covid during the 1st wave. Only 3 people were allowed to his funeral (obviously not me) he lived in aged care he was unable to be taken to hospital because they were full. In an emergency situation like a pandemic it has to be the most likely to survive that get treatment; I understand that and he probably would have died anyway. But he was my dad and I loved him. Please be patient and learn to live with border closers and the uncertainties all this causes UNTIL we have vaccinations universally rolled out. Because, just letting it run it's course is an inhumane option.
As an answer to the above statement
Recent history, (within the previous three months), shows that Australia did eliminate Covid-19
It has taken a hold again, because people who had been overseas, (and probably thought that they did not have it), brought it with them
One reason I am not prepared to live with Covid-19, is because I can not trust my fellow men to tell the truth, when they do the wrong thing
Doing the wrong thing, and/or lying about it, can only help spread Covid-19
I point out that the outgoing, President of the United States of America, is claiming that the Covid-19 number deaths, have been grossly exaggerated
At the same time, his top infectious diseases expert, says that the numbers are real
Both of the above men, are in very powerful positions of authority, I am not saying that one of them is outright lying
I am saying that as both of them can not be correct, then perhaps one of them is either mistaken, or being a bit economical with the truth
The link below is a very recent newspaper article, of the above two men difference of opinions
https://www.ft.com/content/d3389c93-3880-4c47-9886-d01a98b57aa6
Edit to say
Opps, and egg on my face again
The link is to the Financial Times newspaper, and when I just clicked to see that the link is working, they want payment for looking
-- Edited by Tony Bev on Monday 4th of January 2021 02:11:58 PM
we might be a bit restricted but we are not locked up, we have plenty of freedom .
some people just never seem to be happy with what they have
Hi bgt
Without giving or taking any offence, I will attempt to answer your latest questions
I speak only for myself
I will happy live my life around the virus, when someone can prove, that the rest of mankind, do the right thing and follow directions, when they are told to quarantine, so that they do not become spreaders
When I go on the road, I have the choice of being a responsible driver, with a very good chance of surviving my journey. If I was an irresponsible driver, driving like I stole it/speeding/tied/boozed/drugged/mechanical defects etc, etc, etc. I probably would not realise, that I was a statistic waiting to happen
Some people are still addicted to smoking, (it took me about 10 years of trying, before I could give it up). The authorities are trying to stamp it out. I am still young enough to remember some health people saying, that there is no conclusive proof, that smoking causes cancer.
We live with Covid-19, and all its known mutants, by obeying the directions of the health authorities.
Perhaps not, as it is probably too late to eliminate all the known mutants of flu, but while Covid-19 is still young, there may be a chance of eliminating it
We do not have much options, except to shut down every time there is an outbreak, otherwise Covid-19 could overwhelm our medical facilities
There is nothing stopping anyone, anywhere, trying to explore ways of living with Covid-19. If someone can find a way to do so, then I would probably embrace it.
I like to think, that I do not have fixed views. I try to look at both sides of an argument. Up to date I have not seen anything better than total lockdowns, to stop the Covid-19, from marching onwards towards me, my loved ones, my family, my friends, my town, my State, and my Country
-- Edited by landy on Monday 4th of January 2021 10:52:32 PM
-- Edited by landy on Monday 4th of January 2021 11:39:20 PM
We know the facts but many tend to ignore them. There have been 2 covid related deaths in Australia in about 5 months. We know that those most affected and in danger are those over 70. We know from the ABS figures that many elderly die from flu like illnesses not related to covid. www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
We also know our weak link is the international border.
So why isn't there a greater emphasis on protecting the vulnerable and our international border?
I'm not saying we should throw our collective hands in the air and do what Sweden tried to do. Sure there are measures we can all live with and accept. But we need to put everything into perspective.
And comparing Australia to other countries like the USA and the UK is a pointless argument. Other countries have unique circumstances that don't exist here in Australia. I lived in the USA for about 8 years. I know how many think about 'restrictions' etc. The UK has a population density that's unlike Australia. So many variables. (Compare France with Germany. Why the big difference there?)
Imagine how many lives we would have saved now and into the future if just a fraction of the covid money had been spent on research for breast cancer, prostrate cancer, etc etc.
Keep it all in perspective. If you are worried for your own personal health do what I do and take responsibility for it. Avoid crowds. Wash your hand etc etc. Don't rely on governments to look after you 24 hours a day.
Don't just look at the pessimistic headlines. Look at covid from all angles and keep it all in perspective.
Yes I accept some will cherry pick what I have said. That's normal!
I agree dogbox!
While it may not suit everyone, border closures and restrictions are the method of dealing with it that our State Governments have chosen at present. Our Federal Government has chosen not to close totally our international borders. That is the way they have chosen for us to live with it at present.
Those management plans will change as other management tools such as the vaccine become available, as they should. While it is not ideal, it is a plan, it is working, and we do have, with the exception of interstate recreational travel, a reasonably normal type of existence compared to other places in the world. Normal has changed somewhat, as it did after 911, after the wars, and following any major world event.
We have been impacted in the past 12 months with trips cancelled, and plans interrupted, but we have managed, we have and will adapt, and we will make the best of things.
Unfortunately, everyone has different views of what should and could be done. Some think too much is being done, others not enough. I can guarantee one thing. Its not going to change until either other measures are available, or our Governments change! Personally I hope other measures become available rather than having to wait for political change.