my first post on here .......is who tows with a car now days NOT A 4X4........... i tow a 14 foot Quest with a ba fairmont .......towed with fords for many years now they do the job well .....when at van parks where i go mostly nearly every vehicle is a 4X4..........unless going off road i find 4X4s not as comfortable as a car ..........
Possum3 said
10:46 AM Jan 30, 2021
Tea spoon, We towed with sedans up until the late 80's (IE Commodore 6 / Viscount 20ft tandem) - Being an avid Safari'st and on a rural property we utilise a 4WD for everyday use.
If it were still possible to get a sedan like a Statesman DeVille Mk II - I would be waiting at the showroom door.
valiant81 said
11:03 AM Jan 30, 2021
Hi Teaspoon; When we first go into caravans we started off real small with a camper trailer and after 6 months traded that in for a Jayco swan camper. It was only when we picked up a new Jayco swan from Adelaide that the car that we had was unsuited for pulling the camper. It was brand new at the time and also was empty on the trip back to Mildura. We had at the time a VN Holden commodore calais, bog standard with the V6 motor, auto @ the time it had just over 100,000 on the clock.
Found the rear ass of the car was nearly dragging on the ground and on the way home found that the transmission some time would lock out of 4 gear ( overdrive ?? ) and to top it of the engine management system would also disable the air con. Not happy to say the least. I had a word with my mechanic at the time and he had a couple of suggestions, one was to beef up the rear end with a lift kit or to fit pump up shocks. Both would solve the sagging rear end, but would not address the transmission issue or the air con.
In the end and after a discussion with the minister of finance ended up buying a 95 Pajero 4x4 with the 2.8 Ltr diesel engine. To date we have covered over 110,000 with the Pajero and besides general services that 4x4 has been the most reliable vehicle we have owned. We have long ago upgraded from the Jayco swan and we are now on our 2nd Jayco Discovery. The last one was bought new in 2012 and we still have it. We sold that VN commodore not long after buying the pajero. It only had 112,000 on the clock when
The Pajero knows that the caravan is on the back and while not the fastest thing on the road does do the job well and feels a lot safer that towing to me with a car. I would say that with a towing weight of around 2.5 tons, my weight would have to be right on the limit. I find that a 4x4 would give you a better power to weight ratio than some of the modern cars. Traveling with the caravan and the pajero like to cruise at around 95 ~ 100 Kms and found out on the open road ( Dawin trip in 2013 ) the pajero was at its happiest ( engine wise )
Whenarewethere said
11:35 AM Jan 30, 2021
tea spoon wrote:
unless going off road i find 4X4s not as comfortable as a car
In what respect?
Our Land Rover is very nice on all road surfaces. Not as smooth on bumps as my Peugeot 504 (with rear air shocks & onboard air compressor), but it would really lean out around corners.
I have stuffed the LR with acoustic insulation. Not that it was a noisy car inside, but it is amazing what you can do to have a peaceful environment.
I am over it getting down into a car & out & up.
Greg 1 said
05:22 PM Jan 30, 2021
My old man always towed with a Falcon since about 1990.
His last tow car before he passed away was a BF series 2 Fairmont Ghia.
They were excellent tow tugs provided you fitted the correct tow pack to them and stayed within their rated capacity which was 2300kgs with the H/D tow pack. Note. Turbo's and XR8's are limited to 1600kgs regardless of what tow pack you have.
The old man's van went about 1980kgs ATM if I remember correctly.
Bush walker said
08:43 PM Jan 30, 2021
I towed my first van with a HZ holden and bougt mt first 4x4 in 1990 and it made a great difference to towing. As 4x4s are higher than a normal car the caravan does not catch as much wind and ride a lot better. Also being diesel it vastly improved to fues economy. When travelling there are many places that you can not see without 4wd and I will never go back to a normal car for travelling
Bicyclecamper said
09:12 PM Jan 30, 2021
Well, I have left the true 4wd experience behind and went back to a lower vehicle and AWD, I was quite happy to go to a Falcon, in good nick, but they were all in the city, and it was during the height of covid serious issues down there, so went with my tried and true vehicle, that I had 4 of before, a Vitara. It is much lower, then the Pathy, but still can tow my van, although we intend to sell the van and go back to an Hardfloor camper, to keep the weight and fuel usage down. I will probably stay with suzuki's from now on for my experience with them as they are very reliable. It will be an ev-hybrid version next.
Eaglemax said
10:12 PM Jan 30, 2021
My rig is well known on the forum. The car is a JBA kitcar that sort of resembles a 1948 Jaguar ss100 or Morgan.
The car was built in 2001 with a Holden Buick VN v6 and 5 speed manual. The make began in 1982 and continues today. It's fibreglass and alloy. No rust, easy parts and reliable. About 250 in Oz mainly in Perth where they were imported from the UK.
I had to stiffen the rear chassis to engineer a towbar. Then a towing capacity of 1000kg set me a target to match by making a suitable caravan. The challenge was on, to build a 16ft van, full ensuite 2 single beds etc all with a tare of 600kg. Well I came close, 730kg tare once finished. Not bad for a steel frame. Lots of ground breaking low weight ideas. E.g. polystyrene internal walls with a gardener (foamcoat), lightweight ply and pvc tongue and groove lining boards for the shower.
The van was deliberately designed low to the ground with an internal step so no extra steps needed, everything was made to reduce weight and a step might only be 3kg but it all adds up and better for wobbly knees.
I believe the journey is as important as the destination. Also simplicity is important e.g. the car has no radio, aircon, rear camera, or many other gadgets leading to a more relaxed drive. The convertible top comes down on warm days and it's a delight to drive and tow.
It's common for caravanners to state " you need a 4wd". Nope, not for the enjoyment we seek. If we get bogged we call roadside assist. It hasn't happened yet.
A very nice JBA. I have driven one with a Pinto engine but I reckon the V6 would be a much nicer combination.
Caravan is a credit to you too.
Tony Bev said
01:10 AM Jan 31, 2021
I towed with a 6 cylinder Ford falcon
If I buy another caravan again, I do not think that I would need a 4X4, as I do not go seriously off road
Colin Penrose said
09:46 AM Jan 31, 2021
I own a 2 wheel drive diesel Hilux. Goes (just about) most places a 4 wheel drive can go. Tows my 16ft pop top like there is nothing there. It is extra cab so plenty of room inside. Canopy, shelf, fridge on rear. Manual too. Absolutely love it.
dieseltojo said
09:54 AM Jan 31, 2021
To me it is all about the weight you pull.I like the tug to be heavier than the tugee. My outfit loaded up is 2,25 tons, Hence the landcruiser.
But we towed a 1.5 van for twenty years with a V8 Holden with narry a problem.
Stewart said
10:11 AM Jan 31, 2021
Hi I have towed a caravan with falcons for many years my final one was a BA wagon. All did a great job. Now I have RWD Petrol Territory because I love the Barra engine. So I bought the last model made in 2016 and intend to keep it a long time. Still only done 50k km. Tows my Jayco easily and is quiet and very comfortable. Cheers Stewart.
yobarr said
10:39 AM Jan 31, 2021
dieseltojo wrote:
To me it is all about the weight you pull.I like the tug to be heavier than the tugee. My outfit loaded up is 2,25 tons, Hence the landcruiser.
But we towed a 1.5 van for twenty years with a V8 Holden with narry a problem.
"I like the tug to be heavier than the tugee"....Paul,you've hit the nail on the head perfectly! Simple physics,and common sense,dictate that ALWAYS the car should be around 10% HEAVIER than the van it is towing,preferably more.The idea that a 3500kg van can be safely towed behind a 2500kg ute,or similar,is stupidity in the extreme.And,in my opinion,an LC200 can't safely tow more than around 3000kg,GVM upgrade or not. And,congratullations on towing your lightweight van with a V8 Holden.Well done! Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 31st of January 2021 06:16:20 PM
Eaglemax said
05:50 PM Jan 31, 2021
yobarr wrote:
dieseltojo wrote:
To me it is all about the weight you pull.I like the tug to be heavier than the tugee. My outfit loaded up is 2,25 tons, Hence the landcruiser.
But we towed a 1.5 van for twenty years with a V8 Holden with narry a problem.
"I like the tug to be heavier than the tugee"....Paul,you've hit the nail on the head perfectly! Simple physics,and common sense,dictate that ALWAYS the car should be around 10% HEAVIER than the van it is towing,preferably more.The idea that a 3500kg van can be safely towed behind a 2500kg ute,or similar,is stupidity in the extreme.And,in my opinion,an LC200 can't safely tow more than around 3000kg,GVM upgrade or not.Cheers
Diesetojo made a reference to a v8 Holden. Yobarr, you made no reference to the said topic and had your usual waffling on that should be left for the appropriate threads. You have to spoil it all the time.
Eaglemax said
05:52 PM Jan 31, 2021
Greg 1 wrote:
A very nice JBA. I have driven one with a Pinto engine but I reckon the V6 would be a much nicer combination. Caravan is a credit to you too.
Thanks Greg. Yes the Pinto engine 2000cc is the common engine as a Cortina is the "donor car".
Seems Falcons were very common tow cars. A Fairlane could dc easily tow 2000kg safely
yobarr said
06:08 PM Jan 31, 2021
DELETED
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 31st of January 2021 06:14:57 PM
The Belmont Bear said
08:20 AM Feb 2, 2021
I bought my car because it could comfortably tow our van the fact that it was 4x4 was irrelevent. I have never had to drive any of my vehicles in 4x4 when towing but then I have never taken the van off the road. I personally havent found SUVs to be any more uncomfortable than our previous sedans especially the current Eclipse X and Grand Cherokee even the Pajero Sport and Kia Sorento we had before them where nice to travel long distances in.
BB
Aus-Kiwi said
10:46 AM Feb 2, 2021
You dont particularly need 4X4 unless you want to go crazy off road . Australia doesnt have the swamps that some places have ., Now I have said that Ill get stuck !! Lol Seen many older vehicles rebuilt or refreshed due to KNOWN durability!! The trusty 20 year old Cruiser , Patrol , Falcon, Statesman etc . A few mods to suspension which is basically maintenance! Trans cooler etc makes them even more durable !! But most people buy a new 4X4 ute or light truck these days . Interest rates are low !! $$$ My tow vehicle is a 30 year old Falcon EBXR8. Or the motorhome ..
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 2nd of February 2021 10:54:25 AM
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:15 PM Feb 5, 2021
G'day tea spoon - & welcome to the GNs.
While you don't have to have 4WD - it can be nice to have sometimes. But all those cars you see in caravan parks, you could bet your last dollar that a significant number of them have not been in 4WD - ever. We have friends who have their second JEEP - I reckon the 4WD selector might have frozen up by now with lack of use. They have been on a dirt road that was 1km long!!
An uncle told me many decades ago that you mainly need a vehicle with reasonable ground clearance (he was a rock hound & went to Agate Ck in NQ in a 1967 HD Holden ute).
All that said - with modern heavy weight caravans, you need something suitable to safely tow them & there isn't much available in 2WD these days unless you go for a Yank Tank.
my first post on here .......is who tows with a car now days NOT A 4X4........... i tow a 14 foot Quest with a ba fairmont .......towed with fords for many years now they do the job well .....when at van parks where i go mostly nearly every vehicle is a 4X4..........unless going off road i find 4X4s not as comfortable as a car ..........
If it were still possible to get a sedan like a Statesman DeVille Mk II - I would be waiting at the showroom door.
Hi Teaspoon; When we first go into caravans we started off real small with a camper trailer and after 6 months traded that in for a Jayco swan camper. It was only when we picked up a new Jayco swan from Adelaide that the car that we had was unsuited for pulling the camper. It was brand new at the time and also was empty on the trip back to Mildura. We had at the time a VN Holden commodore calais, bog standard with the V6 motor, auto @ the time it had just over 100,000 on the clock.
Found the rear ass of the car was nearly dragging on the ground and on the way home found that the transmission some time would lock out of 4 gear ( overdrive ?? ) and to top it of the engine management system would also disable the air con. Not happy to say the least. I had a word with my mechanic at the time and he had a couple of suggestions, one was to beef up the rear end with a lift kit or to fit pump up shocks. Both would solve the sagging rear end, but would not address the transmission issue or the air con.
In the end and after a discussion with the minister of finance ended up buying a 95 Pajero 4x4 with the 2.8 Ltr diesel engine. To date we have covered over 110,000 with the Pajero and besides general services that 4x4 has been the most reliable vehicle we have owned. We have long ago upgraded from the Jayco swan and we are now on our 2nd Jayco Discovery. The last one was bought new in 2012 and we still have it. We sold that VN commodore not long after buying the pajero. It only had 112,000 on the clock when
The Pajero knows that the caravan is on the back and while not the fastest thing on the road does do the job well and feels a lot safer that towing to me with a car. I would say that with a towing weight of around 2.5 tons, my weight would have to be right on the limit. I find that a 4x4 would give you a better power to weight ratio than some of the modern cars. Traveling with the caravan and the pajero like to cruise at around 95 ~ 100 Kms and found out on the open road ( Dawin trip in 2013 ) the pajero was at its happiest ( engine wise )
In what respect?
Our Land Rover is very nice on all road surfaces. Not as smooth on bumps as my Peugeot 504 (with rear air shocks & onboard air compressor), but it would really lean out around corners.
I have stuffed the LR with acoustic insulation. Not that it was a noisy car inside, but it is amazing what you can do to have a peaceful environment.
I am over it getting down into a car & out & up.
I towed my first van with a HZ holden and bougt mt first 4x4 in 1990 and it made a great difference to towing. As 4x4s are higher than a normal car the caravan does not catch as much wind and ride a lot better. Also being diesel it vastly improved to fues economy. When travelling there are many places that you can not see without 4wd and I will never go back to a normal car for travelling
My rig is well known on the forum. The car is a JBA kitcar that sort of resembles a 1948 Jaguar ss100 or Morgan.
The car was built in 2001 with a Holden Buick VN v6 and 5 speed manual. The make began in 1982 and continues today. It's fibreglass and alloy. No rust, easy parts and reliable. About 250 in Oz mainly in Perth where they were imported from the UK.
I had to stiffen the rear chassis to engineer a towbar. Then a towing capacity of 1000kg set me a target to match by making a suitable caravan. The challenge was on, to build a 16ft van, full ensuite 2 single beds etc all with a tare of 600kg. Well I came close, 730kg tare once finished. Not bad for a steel frame. Lots of ground breaking low weight ideas. E.g. polystyrene internal walls with a gardener (foamcoat), lightweight ply and pvc tongue and groove lining boards for the shower.
The van was deliberately designed low to the ground with an internal step so no extra steps needed, everything was made to reduce weight and a step might only be 3kg but it all adds up and better for wobbly knees.
I believe the journey is as important as the destination. Also simplicity is important e.g. the car has no radio, aircon, rear camera, or many other gadgets leading to a more relaxed drive. The convertible top comes down on warm days and it's a delight to drive and tow.
It's common for caravanners to state " you need a 4wd". Nope, not for the enjoyment we seek. If we get bogged we call roadside assist. It hasn't happened yet.
If I buy another caravan again, I do not think that I would need a 4X4, as I do not go seriously off road
To me it is all about the weight you pull.I like the tug to be heavier than the tugee. My outfit loaded up is 2,25 tons, Hence the landcruiser.
But we towed a 1.5 van for twenty years with a V8 Holden with narry a problem.
"I like the tug to be heavier than the tugee"....Paul,you've hit the nail on the head perfectly! Simple physics,and common sense,dictate that ALWAYS the car should be around 10% HEAVIER than the van it is towing,preferably more.The idea that a 3500kg van can be safely towed behind a 2500kg ute,or similar,is stupidity in the extreme.And,in my opinion,an LC200 can't safely tow more than around 3000kg,GVM upgrade or not. And,congratullations on towing your lightweight van with a V8 Holden.Well done! Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 31st of January 2021 06:16:20 PM
Diesetojo made a reference to a v8 Holden. Yobarr, you made no reference to the said topic and had your usual waffling on that should be left for the appropriate threads. You have to spoil it all the time.
Thanks Greg. Yes the Pinto engine 2000cc is the common engine as a Cortina is the "donor car".
Seems Falcons were very common tow cars. A Fairlane could dc easily tow 2000kg safely
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 31st of January 2021 06:14:57 PM
I bought my car because it could comfortably tow our van the fact that it was 4x4 was irrelevent. I have never had to drive any of my vehicles in 4x4 when towing but then I have never taken the van off the road. I personally havent found SUVs to be any more uncomfortable than our previous sedans especially the current Eclipse X and Grand Cherokee even the Pajero Sport and Kia Sorento we had before them where nice to travel long distances in.
BB
You dont particularly need 4X4 unless you want to go crazy off road . Australia doesnt have the swamps that some places have ., Now I have said that Ill get stuck !! Lol Seen many older vehicles rebuilt or refreshed due to KNOWN durability!! The trusty 20 year old Cruiser , Patrol , Falcon, Statesman etc . A few mods to suspension which is basically maintenance! Trans cooler etc makes them even more durable !! But most people buy a new 4X4 ute or light truck these days . Interest rates are low !! $$$ My tow vehicle is a 30 year old Falcon EBXR8. Or the motorhome ..
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 2nd of February 2021 10:54:25 AM
While you don't have to have 4WD - it can be nice to have sometimes. But all those cars you see in caravan parks, you could bet your last dollar that a significant number of them have not been in 4WD - ever. We have friends who have their second JEEP - I reckon the 4WD selector might have frozen up by now with lack of use. They have been on a dirt road that was 1km long!!
An uncle told me many decades ago that you mainly need a vehicle with reasonable ground clearance (he was a rock hound & went to Agate Ck in NQ in a 1967 HD Holden ute).
All that said - with modern heavy weight caravans, you need something suitable to safely tow them & there isn't much available in 2WD these days unless you go for a Yank Tank.