Anyone interested in going in partnership in buying motorhome overseas in Europe, US or ??
missperu said
05:19 PM Mar 13, 2021
I know we are in a pandemic so thinking ahead sometime maybe in 2022. We would love to go in partnership with likeminded couple who love travelling this way & in another country. We would love Europe, US or open to suggestions. We could share costs, take it in turns as to using it and when not in use by either couple or couples we could store it somewhere O/S. Look froward to hearing from anyone that might be interested. We are based in SE Queensland ATM.
Tony LEE said
08:46 AM Mar 14, 2021
It isn't as straightforward as it seems. A few here and on other fora have done it - Peter, myself, and at least three others that I know have or had vehicles overseas, some of us more than one and for up to 10 years, but co owning it would add a whole extra layer of complexity. I have one in Germany, one in the US, and had one in south America for a few years.
My reluctance to enter into this sort of agreement is best summed up by the owner of this OKA.
Some magic to be had both here and overseas as you can see
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mEUu3ffDGpndrk3i2
But not for the faint-hearted
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Sunday 14th of March 2021 09:15:27 AM
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Sunday 14th of March 2021 09:18:24 AM
Can buy and register in the UK, but they are totally anal about insurance. Sometimes require 2 years driving history and then have restrictions on how many days touring. Worse now with Brexit and it is now a foreign vehicle as far as Europe is concerned. In most cases in Europe, only citizens can register and insure vehicles so you need a proxy to do it for you. If you are more adventurous, you can own a vehicle in a couple of eastern European countries with few hassles
In both cases there are safety inspections to be done every two years.
Need to be meticulous about winterising the rig. Get it wrong and it can cost thousands
Schengen Zone imposes strict limits on total length of stay in the zone, although you can extend stays indefinitely by venturing out of your comfort zone into Turkey, Morocco and non Schengen countries and of course UK and Republic of Ireland.
In the US it can be much simpler if you use a Montana LLC to own and operate the vehicle(s) because all can be directors if the LLC, there are no annual inspections in Montana, if the vehicle is 10 years old you can pay 200 dollars and have permanent registration, and insurance is fairly easy to get from Progressive. You can get 5 year B1 B2 visas which allow 6 months at a time in North America. Include Mexico and Canada as we have and there is enough to keep you occupied 6 months a year for 20 years
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Sunday 14th of March 2021 09:12:25 AM
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:55 AM Mar 14, 2021
As Tony says, there are some complexities, but they can be overcome.
We owned a motorhome in Germany for 3 years. We used a friend who lived there to own and insure it. We then visited for 6 months each year. 3 years was really not enough.
Schengen Zone restrictions can be overcome. There are numerous Euro countries with historical agreements with Australia that allow stays of 3 months outside the Schengen arrangement.
There is no way I would try and share a vehicle with others.
Cheers,
Peter
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:04 AM Mar 14, 2021
The best website we found for motorhome purchase was suchen.mobile.de/
Takes a while to set it up but the search function is excellent.
No doubt there are others.
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
11:00 AM Mar 14, 2021
I have a relative that went thirds in a boat. I was a disaster, 2/3 would contantly break things, never do there share of maintenance.
The only way to get out of this mess was for my relative to buy out the other two at a somewhat inflated cost.
The relative has kept the boat & it has been far cheaper to maintain in the long run.
I would avoid it like the plague!
Mike Harding said
01:01 PM Mar 14, 2021
I foresee all sorts of unforeseen problems.
Peter_n_Margaret said
03:17 PM Mar 14, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
I foresee all sorts of unforeseen problems.
One of the joys and challenges of international travel.
Our adventures can not compete with Tony's but from our perspective it was a wonderful decision and we had some truly great experiences at a cost that would have been prohibitive any other way.
We bought a 20 year old 4WD Iveco with solar and central heating for E17,000. It needed a lot more mechanical work than we anticipated but even so, the total vehicle cost was about $85 per day and that provided all of our transport and all of our accommodation. 90% of our camping was free and most of the rest was very low cost.
Over the 3 x 6 months, we drove about 70,000km.
The highlights for us were Turkey, Scandinavia, France and a side trip to St Petersburg in Russia.
We have done 8 trips in Europe averaging 4 months each and 8 in the US averaging 5 months and 5 in south America, so comparing total costs of ownership relative to total costs of hiring, we are well ahead, and then there is the convenience of arriving and jumping in to a fully equipped vehicle with all tools, clothing and equipment and fully set up for free camping rather than a bare-bones hired RV that you can't use off the grid. Certainly some disadvantages with the main one trying to decide where to go next to take advantage of whatever climate you might prefer this particular part of the year. Obviously expense is a consideration but we started off buying old(ish) vehicles - $20,000 in Europe, $3000 in South America and $30,000 in the US. Purchases were spaced several years apart over several years and given that living costs on the road can be pretty cheap, it wasn't as much of a hit to the pocket as it might seem, and running costs were largely offset by renting out our house
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 15th of March 2021 09:54:55 AM
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:57 AM Mar 15, 2021
Tony's avatar is their Euro MH in Iceland.
The pics I posted are from Turkey. The family was in a tiny village in eastern Turkey. They invited us into their home and we shared a wonderful few hours with them. We had 10 weeks in Turkey and drove 10,000km.
Cheers,
Peter
missperu said
12:14 AM Mar 19, 2021
Thanks so much for your replies, appreciate this, some good info to go over
missperu said
08:41 PM Apr 7, 2021
Hi Tony, With regards to your post on owning an RV O/S where do you store your 3 RV's when you come back to Oz and is the cost affordable. Did you find it hard to buy RV in Europe with the language barrier or do you speak another language? Hope to hear back when you get time
Tony LEE said
09:26 PM Apr 7, 2021
MissPeru
During my two years in China teaching English, the only communication skill I was able to improve was miming and that works in all languages
In Europe if the person you ask first doesn't speak English, the next one will. Start off with "good morning/afternoon" so they can tune their ears in, and then just continue in English. Very high success rate approaching 100% in Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, germany and all countries further north
Tony LEE said
09:36 PM Apr 7, 2021
As for storage
In Germany, it lives in the motorhome dealers yard mixed in with all his stock. Storage is one euro a day when it is there. He also takes care of the biannual safer inspections and he services it and renews rego and insurance when we are due to go over.
In the USA, we just find a storage yard wherever we finish up that trip. Millions to choose from, but we get one out of the city where it is cheaper. Monthly ranges from $40 to $65.rego is zero because in Montana you can pay $200 for permanent rego and there are no safety inspections
In South America (now sold) it was also permanently registered in Montana. Stored it in several countries, but not so easy because most only allow 90 days entry for the vehicle. Rules are made to be broken although sometimes you can get permission from customs to suspend the visa.
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:48 AM Apr 8, 2021
We found a farmer's barn in Holland for the motorhome. E150 for 6 months. Very secure, concrete floor, purpose built for vehicle storage. Most people in Europe speak English. Cheers, Peter
We've owned 5 vehicles in the USA. Traveled a total of 8 years. My advice would be to rent an RV. If you do the sums renting isn't that bad. But there are many variables. We stayed for up to 18 months at a time in the USA. But if you are only doing 3 months or less a year I doubt the sums would support buying a rig. If you rent I would suggest renting from a tourist area such as Vegas. You can pick up a vehicle. Drive it and drop it back and let the rental crowd worry about rego, insurance etc etc etc. If you want to make it more 'homely' then it's easy to find a small storage place to put your stuff in. Then rent next time and pick up your 'stuff'.
It's a lot of hassles owning a rig o/s. But if you do go down that route the rewards are brilliant. We did a lot of hiking and climbing. Stuff the fly in and fly out tourists don't get to do. We have camped miles up a dirt road in Alaska and met only one other person in a week. Camped by swamps full of Alligators. Memories enough to last a lifetime.
But sharing? NO.
DMaxer said
11:18 AM Apr 8, 2021
Is that fellow in the photo of the barn just visiting or has someone put him in to storage, Peter?
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:48 PM Apr 8, 2021
He is a friend who lives in Germany and helped us to buy the motorhome. He also found the storage spot for us.
Cheers,
Peter
bgt said
03:49 PM Apr 8, 2021
Anyone thinking of RVing over seas shouldn't be put off by negative comments. I've been pretty crook over the last couple of years. My memories of the great experiences have helped me immensely. Do it if you can. There are lots of questions but lots of answers from those who have done it. BUT I've seen the 'shared' path and I haven't liked what I saw.
If you are handy there's a path I know a few have taken. But I'm not recommending it. Buy an old clunker C Class. Insure it, register it and have fun. Just expect to have some 'fixing' along the way. Then park it at the airport and forget it. Friends of our did this. Purchased an ex rental unit in LA. Several months later they parked it near JFK in NY. Gabbed a cab and never looked back!!
Peter_n_Margaret said
04:49 PM Apr 8, 2021
I agree.
3 x 6 months in Europe was a a 100% wonderful experience for us and much cheaper than seeing those places any other way. And the total flexibility to come and go as we pleased.
We could easily have extended the original 3 year plan to 4 or 5 or more.
Cheers,
Peter
bgt said
10:17 AM Apr 9, 2021
There's also an element of luck involved as well with exchange rates. We purchased our first motorhome in the USA when the A$ was about 1 to 1. Then sold it when the A$ dropped to almost $0.50. So overall the cost wasn't very high. But it can easily go the other way.
There's also a matter of 'experience'. How much value do you put on your memories and experiences? I know from personal experience that "do it while you can" is very important. I got caught out by getting ill in the USA. Luckily we had the insurance but the bills were north of $30000.00. I can nolonger go overseas. Or if I do I take no insurance with me plus the risk factor on me ending up in hospital.
Boot hills are full of folks who were going to do this or that but never ever did. Don't let negative comments and experiences put you off. Every problem has a solution.
I know we are in a pandemic so thinking ahead sometime maybe in 2022. We would love to go in partnership with likeminded couple who love travelling this way & in another country. We would love Europe, US or open to suggestions. We could share costs, take it in turns as to using it and when not in use by either couple or couples we could store it somewhere O/S. Look froward to hearing from anyone that might be interested. We are based in SE Queensland ATM.
It isn't as straightforward as it seems. A few here and on other fora have done it - Peter, myself, and at least three others that I know have or had vehicles overseas, some of us more than one and for up to 10 years, but co owning it would add a whole extra layer of complexity. I have one in Germany, one in the US, and had one in south America for a few years.
My reluctance to enter into this sort of agreement is best summed up by the owner of this OKA.
Some magic to be had both here and overseas as you can see
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mEUu3ffDGpndrk3i2
But not for the faint-hearted
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Sunday 14th of March 2021 09:15:27 AM
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Sunday 14th of March 2021 09:18:24 AM
Some pitfalls
Can buy and register in the UK, but they are totally anal about insurance. Sometimes require 2 years driving history and then have restrictions on how many days touring. Worse now with Brexit and it is now a foreign vehicle as far as Europe is concerned.
In most cases in Europe, only citizens can register and insure vehicles so you need a proxy to do it for you. If you are more adventurous, you can own a vehicle in a couple of eastern European countries with few hassles
In both cases there are safety inspections to be done every two years.
Need to be meticulous about winterising the rig. Get it wrong and it can cost thousands
Schengen Zone imposes strict limits on total length of stay in the zone, although you can extend stays indefinitely by venturing out of your comfort zone into Turkey, Morocco and non Schengen countries and of course UK and Republic of Ireland.
In the US it can be much simpler if you use a Montana LLC to own and operate the vehicle(s) because all can be directors if the LLC, there are no annual inspections in Montana, if the vehicle is 10 years old you can pay 200 dollars and have permanent registration, and insurance is fairly easy to get from Progressive. You can get 5 year B1 B2 visas which allow 6 months at a time in North America. Include Mexico and Canada as we have and there is enough to keep you occupied 6 months a year for 20 years
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Sunday 14th of March 2021 09:12:25 AM
We owned a motorhome in Germany for 3 years. We used a friend who lived there to own and insure it. We then visited for 6 months each year. 3 years was really not enough.
Schengen Zone restrictions can be overcome. There are numerous Euro countries with historical agreements with Australia that allow stays of 3 months outside the Schengen arrangement.
There is no way I would try and share a vehicle with others.
Cheers,
Peter
Takes a while to set it up but the search function is excellent.
No doubt there are others.
Cheers,
Peter
I have a relative that went thirds in a boat. I was a disaster, 2/3 would contantly break things, never do there share of maintenance.
The only way to get out of this mess was for my relative to buy out the other two at a somewhat inflated cost.
The relative has kept the boat & it has been far cheaper to maintain in the long run.
I would avoid it like the plague!
I foresee all sorts of unforeseen problems.
One of the joys and challenges of international travel.
Our adventures can not compete with Tony's but from our perspective it was a wonderful decision and we had some truly great experiences at a cost that would have been prohibitive any other way.
We bought a 20 year old 4WD Iveco with solar and central heating for E17,000. It needed a lot more mechanical work than we anticipated but even so, the total vehicle cost was about $85 per day and that provided all of our transport and all of our accommodation. 90% of our camping was free and most of the rest was very low cost.
Over the 3 x 6 months, we drove about 70,000km.
The highlights for us were Turkey, Scandinavia, France and a side trip to St Petersburg in Russia.
My advice (after Covid) would be "Just do it".
Cheers,
Peter
We have done 8 trips in Europe averaging 4 months each and 8 in the US averaging 5 months and 5 in south America, so comparing total costs of ownership relative to total costs of hiring, we are well ahead, and then there is the convenience of arriving and jumping in to a fully equipped vehicle with all tools, clothing and equipment and fully set up for free camping rather than a bare-bones hired RV that you can't use off the grid. Certainly some disadvantages with the main one trying to decide where to go next to take advantage of whatever climate you might prefer this particular part of the year. Obviously expense is a consideration but we started off buying old(ish) vehicles - $20,000 in Europe, $3000 in South America and $30,000 in the US. Purchases were spaced several years apart over several years and given that living costs on the road can be pretty cheap, it wasn't as much of a hit to the pocket as it might seem, and running costs were largely offset by renting out our house
-- Edited by Tony LEE on Monday 15th of March 2021 09:54:55 AM
The pics I posted are from Turkey. The family was in a tiny village in eastern Turkey. They invited us into their home and we shared a wonderful few hours with them. We had 10 weeks in Turkey and drove 10,000km.
Cheers,
Peter
Thanks so much for your replies, appreciate this, some good info to go over
Hi Tony, With regards to your post on owning an RV O/S where do you store your 3 RV's when you come back to Oz and is the cost affordable. Did you find it hard to buy RV in Europe with the language barrier or do you speak another language? Hope to hear back when you get time
We found a farmer's barn in Holland for the motorhome. E150 for 6 months. Very secure, concrete floor, purpose built for vehicle storage.
Most people in Europe speak English.
Cheers,
Peter
It's a lot of hassles owning a rig o/s. But if you do go down that route the rewards are brilliant. We did a lot of hiking and climbing. Stuff the fly in and fly out tourists don't get to do. We have camped miles up a dirt road in Alaska and met only one other person in a week. Camped by swamps full of Alligators. Memories enough to last a lifetime.
But sharing? NO.
Cheers,
Peter
If you are handy there's a path I know a few have taken. But I'm not recommending it. Buy an old clunker C Class. Insure it, register it and have fun. Just expect to have some 'fixing' along the way. Then park it at the airport and forget it. Friends of our did this. Purchased an ex rental unit in LA. Several months later they parked it near JFK in NY. Gabbed a cab and never looked back!!
3 x 6 months in Europe was a a 100% wonderful experience for us and much cheaper than seeing those places any other way. And the total flexibility to come and go as we pleased.
We could easily have extended the original 3 year plan to 4 or 5 or more.
Cheers,
Peter
There's also a matter of 'experience'. How much value do you put on your memories and experiences? I know from personal experience that "do it while you can" is very important. I got caught out by getting ill in the USA. Luckily we had the insurance but the bills were north of $30000.00. I can nolonger go overseas. Or if I do I take no insurance with me plus the risk factor on me ending up in hospital.
Boot hills are full of folks who were going to do this or that but never ever did. Don't let negative comments and experiences put you off. Every problem has a solution.