Two men dead overnight in a tent in the Omeo caravan park apparently from CO positioning from a gas heater - maybe jerry rigged?
$25 may well save your life - you cannot smell or taste CO you simply fall asleep and never wake up.
Trevor 57 said
01:46 PM Jun 28, 2021
got one - thanks, they are a bit dearer than $25, but we well worth it.
Bunnings have them for $59
tea spoon said
01:49 PM Jun 28, 2021
we go to van parks and the van got no gas in it ......so a detector would be no use .........for those who are concerned cook outside or go electric .......
-- Edited by tea spoon on Monday 28th of June 2021 01:51:06 PM
Tony Bev said
03:56 PM Jun 28, 2021
RIP to the two men who died
As Trevor has already said, Bunnings have them
I have (from Bunnings), a combination smoke and CO alarm, in my RV
It has a long life battery, so it is probably the same price as purchasing a normal smoke alarm, and renewing the battery each year
Buzz Lightbulb said
05:04 PM Jun 28, 2021
Or use one's brain.
ConsumerMan said
08:57 PM Jun 28, 2021
So where does CO come from in a caravan situation? Unburnt LPG is not CO and is heavier than air and will not activate a CO alarm. Maybe a caravanner comes in late next door and leaves their engine running while setting up. I dont know, I am just trying to think what may produce or give off CO in my caravan. I dont have a diesel heater. Just wondering?
landy said
10:08 PM Jun 28, 2021
ConsumerMan wrote:
So where does CO come from in a caravan situation? Unburnt LPG is not CO and is heavier than air and will not activate a CO alarm. Maybe a caravanner comes in late next door and leaves their engine running while setting up. I dont know, I am just trying to think what may produce or give off CO in my caravan. I dont have a diesel heater. Just wondering?
I'm no expert Consumerman but posting your question in a google search tells me this.
Carbon monoxide (CO) is a highly poisonous gas produced by the incomplete burning of natural gas or liquefied petroleum gas (LPG). This can happen when a gas appliance has been incorrectly fitted, badly repaired or poorly maintained.
Landy
Whenarewethere said
10:24 PM Jun 28, 2021
There enough idiots who run a generator inside a garage. They generally only do it once.
Possum3 said
10:39 PM Jun 28, 2021
ConsumerMan wrote:
So where does CO come from in a caravan situation?
So where does CO come from in a caravan situation? Unburnt LPG is not CO and is heavier than air and will not activate a CO alarm. Maybe a caravanner comes in late next door and leaves their engine running while setting up. I dont know, I am just trying to think what may produce or give off CO in my caravan. I dont have a diesel heater. Just wondering?
ummm, it could come from the gas stove when cooking,it could come from a faulty gas heater under the bed. Amazingly some people use gas stoves to heat their vans on cold nights. We have a gas heater/water heater under the bed, it is made by Truma and is called a Combi - it might get faulty without us knowing. The fridge when running on gas could get faulty.
One - https://7news.com.au/news/wa/father-son-killed-by-fridge-gas-leak-in-wedge-island-camping-tragedy-c-668770
And another one - https://www.smh.com.au/national/father-son-and-friend-gassed-in-caravan-20120318-1vd2f.html
and I remember a bloke slept in the back of his 4WD at Bathurst with his portable fridge on gas and died
-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Tuesday 29th of June 2021 06:48:48 AM
Tony LEE said
07:06 AM Jun 29, 2021
"we go to van parks and the van got no gas in it ......so a detector would be no use .........for those who are concerned cook outside or go electric ......."
Been cases where occupants of a motorhome died because of CO from a generator in a nearby motorhome.
Tony LEE said
07:12 AM Jun 29, 2021
We have had several times where CO alarm went off - because high winds side-on have forced exhaust from fridge, propane furnace and hws (at different times) into the motorhome through holes that are not obvious.
Oka374 said
07:46 AM Jun 29, 2021
We've had the same and we have no LPG in the Oka at all, it has blown in from outside sources or just the exhaust from the diesel cooktop or heater but it has gone off twice in about ten years.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:04 AM Jun 29, 2021
Probably the biggest cause of deaths is using non approved heating measures in enclosed areas, like radiant gas heaters. They are killers.
It is now not permitted to have a gas fridge vent into an annex area unless it is open on 2 sides.
Cheers,
Peter
Trevor 57 said
09:08 AM Jun 29, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Probably the biggest cause of deaths is using non approved heating measures in enclosed areas, like radiant gas heaters. They are killers. It is now not permitted to have a gas fridge vent into an annex area unless it is open on 2 sides. Cheers, Peter
did you read my post above about the bloke at the Bathurst 1000 who died sleeping in the back of his 4WD with his portable 3 way fridge running on gas - not faulty, just exhausting into a confined space
Possum3 said
09:25 AM Jun 29, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Probably the biggest cause of deaths is using non approved heating measures in enclosed areas, like radiant gas heaters. They are killers. It is now not permitted to have a gas fridge vent into an annex area unless it is open on 2 sides. Cheers, Peter
Similarly gas appliances should not vent under any widow - Unfortunately this is only an Australian Standard that some manufacturers disregard, and NCAT doesn't uphold as a dangerous fault.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:42 AM Jun 29, 2021
Tony LEE wrote:
Been cases where occupants of a motorhome died because of CO from a generator in a nearby motorhome.
Modern vehicles have strict emission standards they must meet.
No generators (portable or built in) have any emission standards at all.
Cheers,
Peter
dorian said
09:48 AM Jun 29, 2021
Tony LEE wrote:
Been cases where occupants of a motorhome died because of CO from a generator in a nearby motorhome.
That's scary, if true. Do you have any references?
oldbloke said
11:29 AM Jun 29, 2021
landy wrote:
ConsumerMan wrote:
So where does CO come from in a caravan situation? Unburnt LPG is not CO and is heavier than air and will not activate a CO alarm. Maybe a caravanner comes in late next door and leaves their engine running while setting up. I dont know, I am just trying to think what may produce or give off CO in my caravan. I dont have a diesel heater. Just wondering?
I'm no expert Consumerman but posting your question in a google search tells me this.
Carbon monoxide (CO) is a highly poisonous gas produced by the incomplete burning of natural gas or liquefied petroleum gas (LPG). This can happen when a gas appliance has been incorrectly fitted, badly repaired or poorly maintained.
Landy
Land is correct. Also if you seal up the van/room you are in the gas and yourself consume the oxygen in the room. Once it gets to a low point the gas appliance starts producing CO due to not enough oxygen.
The answer is almost always ensure 2 openings (window/vent)to ensure "flow through" ventilation. This ensures fresh air to all, including the gas appliance. Almost all vans have a very large door vent. Crack a window at the other end of the van an Bob's your uncle.
Derek Barnes said
03:49 PM Jun 29, 2021
According to a web site on carbon monoxide myths "An open burner on a residential gas stove produces almost NO carbon monoxide. As soon as you put a metal pot on the burner, CO output rises and can run anywhere from 20 to 100ppm (parts per million.) This is because the ends of the burner flames are contacting the metal pot. As the pot heats up, the amount of CO being produced starts to drop, although it never gets back to 0ppm".
According to another web site "Fossil fuels contain carbon (C) and hydrogen (H). During complete combustion carbon and hydrogen combine with oxygen (O2) to produce carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O). During incomplete combustion part of the carbon is not completely oxidized producing soot or carbon monoxide (CO). Incomplete combustion uses fuel inefficiently and the carbon monoxide produced is a health hazard.
A properly designed, adjusted, and maintained gas flame produces only small amounts of carbon monoxide, with 400 parts per million (ppm) being the maximum allowed in flue products. Most burners produce much less, with between 0 and 50 ppm being typical. During incomplete combustion, carbon monoxide concentrations may reach levels above 7,000 ppm. Even a small amount of spillage into occupied structures from appliances producing large amounts of CO is a health risk and can be a threat to life".
Exposure in(ppm)
Carbon Monoxide Effects:
4000 ppm
Death, within 5 min.
2000 2500 ppm
Unconscious, within 10 min.
1000 2000 ppm
Confusion, drowsiness & nausea
600 -1000 ppm
Headache & discomfort
25 ppm
SAFE ZONE?? Short term
"Re-burn is the most deadly situation and is typically what contributes to the few bonafide CO fatalities that do occur. Re-burn happens when the flue does not work properly, is blocked or disconnected, or is being back-drafted by some other force like an attic or exhaust fan, or an open window during a windy day."
Get a CO detector to ensure that your gas appliances are not producing CO.
Plain Truth said
02:00 PM Jun 30, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
ABC radio news:
Two men dead overnight in a tent in the Omeo caravan park apparently from CO positioning from a gas heater - maybe jerry rigged?
$25 may well save your life - you cannot smell or taste CO you simply fall asleep and never wake up.
Mike, Do you have a link to that. don,t worry I found it in the local news
They had a charcoal heat beads fire in their tent.Both men were aged in their early 30's.They were with a group of five other men,who were staying in a cabin.
-- Edited by Plain Truth on Wednesday 30th of June 2021 02:15:29 PM
Mike Harding said
02:09 PM Jun 30, 2021
Plain Truth wrote:
Mike, Do you have a link to that.
Strangely, PT, no I do not.
I heard it as a report on ABC Victoria radio news on the day I posted. The news report included audio from the, female, caravan park owner saying how shocked she was by the deaths but I have been unable to find any on-line references including on the Victoria Police website!?
Plain Truth said
02:30 PM Jun 30, 2021
Mike , I just edited my post,have a look.
Plain Truth said
02:55 PM Jun 30, 2021
This is the article in the local newspaper of the tragic accident.I would of thought that tents breathe a bit,but not enough to supply two people with oxygen.
Plastic tents don't breathe that well, mind you neither does canvas
dieseltojo said
05:30 PM Jun 30, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
ABC radio news:
Two men dead overnight in a tent in the Omeo caravan park apparently from CO positioning from a gas heater - maybe jerry rigged?
$25 may well save your life - you cannot smell or taste CO you simply fall asleep and never wake up.
Are you trying to say that a fire in an enclosed space consumes the oxygen and then you have non left over for breathing???? Whoda thunk?
Yep and they used a charcoal heater if its the same report. About the deadliest cooker you can use in a confined space. Poor fellas never gave themselves a chance.
Sandyfreckle said
07:15 PM Jun 30, 2021
My 'ex' could make a fruit cake that would make you fart the legs off a wooden chair..., maybe that's why she's an 'ex'.
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:04 PM Jun 30, 2021
Plain Truth wrote:
I would of thought that tents breathe a bit,but not enough to supply two people with oxygen.
It is not about the lack of supply of oxygen. There may be plenty of oxygen, but the CO is very poisonous and that is what kills.
Cheers,
Peter
oldbloke said
08:04 PM Jun 30, 2021
Charcoal heater (basically an open fire) in a nylon tent that is well sealed. Must be close to if not worst possible scenario.
If the CO didn't get then a tent fire would have.
Tony LEE said
01:50 PM Jul 1, 2021
A zip up tent with floor is just about airtight once the fabric gets wet, and that can be just from condensation from the occupants.
ABC radio news:
Two men dead overnight in a tent in the Omeo caravan park apparently from CO positioning from a gas heater - maybe jerry rigged?
$25 may well save your life - you cannot smell or taste CO you simply fall asleep and never wake up.
Bunnings have them for $59
we go to van parks and the van got no gas in it ......so a detector would be no use .........for those who are concerned cook outside or go electric .......
-- Edited by tea spoon on Monday 28th of June 2021 01:51:06 PM
As Trevor has already said, Bunnings have them
I have (from Bunnings), a combination smoke and CO alarm, in my RV
It has a long life battery, so it is probably the same price as purchasing a normal smoke alarm, and renewing the battery each year
Or use one's brain.
I'm no expert Consumerman but posting your question in a google search tells me this.
Carbon monoxide (CO) is a highly poisonous gas produced by the incomplete burning of natural gas or liquefied petroleum gas (LPG). This can happen when a gas appliance has been incorrectly fitted, badly repaired or poorly maintained.
Landy
There enough idiots who run a generator inside a garage. They generally only do it once.
As far as I have been able to ascertain the most common cause of CO in caravans is gas water heaters - There is a current recall on the largest supplier of water heaters see Further notice from Suburban. - The Grey Nomads Forum (activeboard.com)
ummm, it could come from the gas stove when cooking,it could come from a faulty gas heater under the bed. Amazingly some people use gas stoves to heat their vans on cold nights. We have a gas heater/water heater under the bed, it is made by Truma and is called a Combi - it might get faulty without us knowing. The fridge when running on gas could get faulty.
One - https://7news.com.au/news/wa/father-son-killed-by-fridge-gas-leak-in-wedge-island-camping-tragedy-c-668770
And another one - https://www.smh.com.au/national/father-son-and-friend-gassed-in-caravan-20120318-1vd2f.html
and I remember a bloke slept in the back of his 4WD at Bathurst with his portable fridge on gas and died
-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Tuesday 29th of June 2021 06:48:48 AM
It is now not permitted to have a gas fridge vent into an annex area unless it is open on 2 sides.
Cheers,
Peter
did you read my post above about the bloke at the Bathurst 1000 who died sleeping in the back of his 4WD with his portable 3 way fridge running on gas - not faulty, just exhausting into a confined space
Similarly gas appliances should not vent under any widow - Unfortunately this is only an Australian Standard that some manufacturers disregard, and NCAT doesn't uphold as a dangerous fault.
Modern vehicles have strict emission standards they must meet.
No generators (portable or built in) have any emission standards at all.
Cheers,
Peter
That's scary, if true. Do you have any references?
Land is correct. Also if you seal up the van/room you are in the gas and yourself consume the oxygen in the room. Once it gets to a low point the gas appliance starts producing CO due to not enough oxygen.
The answer is almost always ensure 2 openings (window/vent)to ensure "flow through" ventilation. This ensures fresh air to all, including the gas appliance. Almost all vans have a very large door vent. Crack a window at the other end of the van an Bob's your uncle.
According to a web site on carbon monoxide myths "An open burner on a residential gas stove produces almost NO carbon monoxide. As soon as you put a metal pot on the burner, CO output rises and can run anywhere from 20 to 100ppm (parts per million.) This is because the ends of the burner flames are contacting the metal pot. As the pot heats up, the amount of CO being produced starts to drop, although it never gets back to 0ppm".
According to another web site "Fossil fuels contain carbon (C) and hydrogen (H). During complete combustion carbon and hydrogen combine with oxygen (O2) to produce carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O). During incomplete combustion part of the carbon is not completely oxidized producing soot or carbon monoxide (CO). Incomplete combustion uses fuel inefficiently and the carbon monoxide produced is a health hazard.
A properly designed, adjusted, and maintained gas flame produces only small amounts of carbon monoxide, with 400 parts per million (ppm) being the maximum allowed in flue products. Most burners produce much less, with between 0 and 50 ppm being typical. During incomplete combustion, carbon monoxide concentrations may reach levels above 7,000 ppm. Even a small amount of spillage into occupied structures from appliances producing large amounts of CO is a health risk and can be a threat to life".
"Re-burn is the most deadly situation and is typically what contributes to the few bonafide CO fatalities that do occur. Re-burn happens when the flue does not work properly, is blocked or disconnected, or is being back-drafted by some other force like an attic or exhaust fan, or an open window during a windy day."
Get a CO detector to ensure that your gas appliances are not producing CO.
Mike, Do you have a link to that. don,t worry I found it in the local news
They had a charcoal heat beads fire in their tent.Both men were aged in their early 30's.They were with a group of five other men,who were staying in a cabin.
-- Edited by Plain Truth on Wednesday 30th of June 2021 02:15:29 PM
Strangely, PT, no I do not.
I heard it as a report on ABC Victoria radio news on the day I posted. The news report included audio from the, female, caravan park owner saying how shocked she was by the deaths but I have been unable to find any on-line references including on the Victoria Police website!?
Mike , I just edited my post,have a look.
This is the article in the local newspaper of the tragic accident.I would of thought that tents breathe a bit,but not enough to supply two people with oxygen.
Are you trying to say that a fire in an enclosed space consumes the oxygen and then you have non left over for breathing???? Whoda thunk?
Yep and they used a charcoal heater if its the same report. About the deadliest cooker you can use in a confined space. Poor fellas never gave themselves a chance.
It is not about the lack of supply of oxygen. There may be plenty of oxygen, but the CO is very poisonous and that is what kills.
Cheers,
Peter
If the CO didn't get then a tent fire would have.