Hi all, I have searched high and low for an answer to this but cannot find an answer. I have a 20' Jayco Starcraft Outback with the standard drawbar. Looking to increase storage for light but bulky items such as hoses, chocks, levelling ramps, annex floor mat etc. I was hoping to put a 1200mm wide aluminium toolbox across the drawbar where the two 9kg gas cylinders are currently located and then locate the gas cylinders at each end of the tool box in holders bolted/welded to the ends. I have looked for regulations around this and can only find mention of the need to mount them either "on" the drawbar or attached to the caravan wall. As the toolbox is mounted solidly to the drawbar would the side-mounted gas cylinders still technically be attached to the drawbar. I note that DC Custom Toolboxes sells toolboxes especially made with gas cylinder compartments built in so does that mean it is ok? The gas cylinders will still be behind a 2.2m wide stone guard so will be protected. Has anyone else done what I am planing to do. I am aware of needing to keep tow ball weight within limits but I am well under at the moment and it is a dual axle van. I am also planning on attaching the regulator bracket to the back of the tool box and connecting this to the cylinders with pigtail flexible gas leads which all seems legal as I will not be touching the connection between the regulator output and the fixed van gas piping. TIA
Craig1 said
07:51 PM Aug 1, 2021
Our gas bottles are mounted on a 50mm x 25mm rhs ladder type frame which is welded to the A frame, so 9kg bottles are offset to left side and the Gen Set box is on the right side, immediately in front of boot. But be careful of clearance for jack knife. We are ok, but only just. Also we would not be doing Gibb River etc with this.
-- Edited by Craig1 on Sunday 1st of August 2021 07:57:56 PM
My hoses, that is the sullage ones 4 X12 ft long, are in individual poly pipes bolted to under the van, and just jut out the back. They have a fixed cap on the front, and screw caps on the back. The inlet water hose is a flatpak one on a roll, and it sits in the front boot as well as the ramps and everything else.. I did what you wanted to do, on my soft floor camper, but put the gas bottles in the box, with a small filtered vent on each side. What they can't see wont hurt you.
Tony LEE said
01:07 PM Aug 2, 2021
Supposed to be mounted within the envelope of the vehicle ie not on the back or on the side unless within mudguards
Drawbar is OK too but maybe outer limits is a line drawn between the towball and the front corner of the caravan.
Radar said
02:08 PM Aug 2, 2021
Tony LEE wrote:
Supposed to be mounted within the envelope of the vehicle ie not on the back or on the side unless within mudguards Drawbar is OK too but maybe outer limits is a line drawn between the towball and the front corner of the caravan.
Hi Tony Lee
For what its worth, I did read this that the gas bottles are required to be inside the A frame, this would of been about 2014 when I was making some changes to our drawbar on the caravan involving the gas bottles and the engineering shop suggested I read the riot act first before changing what we had, went to a caravan show a week later most were sitting on the A frame, camper trailers had gas bottles hanging off here and there.
So I am convinced there is no real legal requirement but if you are involved in a law suite you will be required to defend yourself.
It a bit like the height of the number plate, rear lights and so forth, that is a real myth of 1200mm high.
yobarr said
02:17 PM Aug 2, 2021
Radar wrote:
Tony LEE wrote:
Supposed to be mounted within the envelope of the vehicle ie not on the back or on the side unless within mudguards Drawbar is OK too but maybe outer limits is a line drawn between the towball and the front corner of the caravan.
Hi Tony Lee
For what its worth, I did read this that the gas bottles are required to be inside the A frame, this would of been about 2014 when I was making some changes to our drawbar on the caravan involving the gas bottles and the engineering shop suggested I read the riot act first before changing what we had, went to a caravan show a week later most were sitting on the A frame, camper trailers had gas bottles hanging off here and there.
So I am convinced there is no real legal requirement but if you are involved in a law suite you will be required to defend yourself.
It a bit like the height of the number plate, rear lights and so forth, that is a real myth of 1200mm high.
Myth?
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 2nd of August 2021 02:17:47 PM
Supposed to be mounted within the envelope of the vehicle ie not on the back or on the side unless within mudguards Drawbar is OK too but maybe outer limits is a line drawn between the towball and the front corner of the caravan.
Saw van this morning,on my daily 6km walk,with toolbox mounted on drawbar,just in front of the boot,with a 9kg gas bottle on either side,both outside confines of 'A' frame.Tomorrow I will see if I can get a photo.Cheers
P.S Just found this on net.Would this work for you?
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 2nd of August 2021 02:25:02 PM
"9.1.1.1.provision must be made for mounting a registration plate (as shown in Figure 1) to be affixed to the rear of the vehicle so that no part of such plate is more than 1,300 mm from the ground
9.1.1.3.no part of a vehicle, including its standard equipment, regular production options or Equipment must be so located as to obscure any part of the registration plate(s)."
Obscuring means in any direction at 45 degrees. Many fail straight out of the factory.
Cheers,
Peter
Radar said
05:04 PM Aug 2, 2021
Thank you Peter, I knew I had read it but was under the impression caravans, RVs would not come in to it.
Where I been lately this was in my photo. Apparently this caravan manufacture knows the rules.
Where I been lately this was in my photo. Apparently this caravan manufacture knows the rules.
Not legal for either the lights or the number plates.
Not uncommon either.
Cheers,
Peter
yobarr said
05:57 PM Aug 2, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Radar wrote:
Where I been lately this was in my photo. Apparently this caravan manufacture knows the rules.
Not legal for either the lights or the number plates.
Not uncommon either.
Cheers,
Peter
And 3 demerit points,plus $400,if the constabulary decides to book you! Heard through the grapevine that that particular manufacturer no longer uses the McHitch system on their range,possibly for reasons that I have outlined previously.Cheers
ANDYVS said
08:03 PM Aug 2, 2021
Hi all, after further searching I found a downloadable draft copy of the latest applicable standard on line, AS/NZ 5601.2 - 2020. which provides a lot more information than the 2013 version (https://www.hcaa.org.au/resources/standards-australia-draft-comment-asnzs-56012). Looks like I will have to go back to the drawing board and rethink my storage ideas. Thanks for the storage ideas Bicyclecamper. Hopefully when the new standard, if it was adopted in full, is more broadly known it will encourage a few more toolbox manufacturers to bring out compliant models and bring prices down. $1800 from tcboxes.com.au is a bit high for a glorified toolbox.
This comment does not help the OP but it surprises me the number of caravans I am seeing with a gas bottle mounted on the rear bumper. No, they are not homemade fire pits. A rear ender and that could be the end of a lovely road trip, or worse.
Greg 1 said
11:56 PM Aug 2, 2021
3 demerit points,plus $400,if the constabulary decides to book you! Heard through the grapevine that that particular manufacturer no longer uses the McHitch system on their range,possibly for reasons that I have outlined previously.Cheers
Now you are making a very dangerous assumption yobarr old son.
The most probable reason for their change of hitch is likely because the opposition has offered their products at a much cheaper price. That happens all the time in manufacturing. I used to get inundated with reps bearing gifts, inducements or have we got the deal for you offerings every day of the week.
Used to drive me mad.
Brodie Allen said
09:03 AM Aug 4, 2021
What about the stoplight at the top of the rear of vehicles?
That is a lot higher than legislation as mentioned above.
yobarr said
10:07 AM Aug 4, 2021
Brodie Allen wrote:
What about the stoplight at the top of the rear of vehicles?
That is a lot higher than legislation as mentioned above.
But it is not the primary brake light,rather an auxiliary. Perhaps the height of that light would place it better in the field of vision of the driver of a large truck? The floor of the cab on some of the trucks I drove was over 1500mm from the ground,so eye level would have been much higher.Cheers
Mike196 said
12:28 PM Aug 4, 2021
The requirements for the eye level light are not part of the requirements for the tail/stop lamps. They are covered by a different set of clauses in the rules.
yobarr said
03:37 PM Aug 4, 2021
Tony LEE wrote:
Supposed to be mounted within the envelope of the vehicle ie not on the back or on the side unless within mudguards Drawbar is OK too but maybe outer limits is a line drawn between the towball and the front corner of the caravan.
Hi all, I have searched high and low for an answer to this but cannot find an answer. I have a 20' Jayco Starcraft Outback with the standard drawbar. Looking to increase storage for light but bulky items such as hoses, chocks, levelling ramps, annex floor mat etc. I was hoping to put a 1200mm wide aluminium toolbox across the drawbar where the two 9kg gas cylinders are currently located and then locate the gas cylinders at each end of the tool box in holders bolted/welded to the ends. I have looked for regulations around this and can only find mention of the need to mount them either "on" the drawbar or attached to the caravan wall. As the toolbox is mounted solidly to the drawbar would the side-mounted gas cylinders still technically be attached to the drawbar. I note that DC Custom Toolboxes sells toolboxes especially made with gas cylinder compartments built in so does that mean it is ok? The gas cylinders will still be behind a 2.2m wide stone guard so will be protected. Has anyone else done what I am planing to do. I am aware of needing to keep tow ball weight within limits but I am well under at the moment and it is a dual axle van. I am also planning on attaching the regulator bracket to the back of the tool box and connecting this to the cylinders with pigtail flexible gas leads which all seems legal as I will not be touching the connection between the regulator output and the fixed van gas piping. TIA
-- Edited by Craig1 on Sunday 1st of August 2021 07:57:56 PM
Hi Tony Lee
For what its worth, I did read this that the gas bottles are required to be inside the A frame, this would of been about 2014 when I was making some changes to our drawbar on the caravan involving the gas bottles and the engineering shop suggested I read the riot act first before changing what we had, went to a caravan show a week later most were sitting on the A frame, camper trailers had gas bottles hanging off here and there.
So I am convinced there is no real legal requirement but if you are involved in a law suite you will be required to defend yourself.
It a bit like the height of the number plate, rear lights and so forth, that is a real myth of 1200mm high.
Myth?
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 2nd of August 2021 02:17:47 PM
Saw van this morning,on my daily 6km walk,with toolbox mounted on drawbar,just in front of the boot,with a 9kg gas bottle on either side,both outside confines of 'A' frame.Tomorrow I will see if I can get a photo.Cheers
P.S Just found this on net.Would this work for you?
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 2nd of August 2021 02:25:02 PM
Technical Requirements (infrastructure.gov.au)
Lights to be a maximum 1500mm. "May be increased to 2100 mm if the structure makes it impractical to keep within 1500 mm."
Not just because you think it is a good idea.
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 61/02 - Vehicle Marking) 2005 (legislation.gov.au)
"9.1.1.1. provision must be made for mounting a registration plate (as shown in Figure 1) to be affixed to the rear of the vehicle so that no part of such plate is more than 1,300 mm from the ground
9.1.1.3. no part of a vehicle, including its standard equipment, regular production options or Equipment must be so located as to obscure any part of the registration plate(s)."
Obscuring means in any direction at 45 degrees. Many fail straight out of the factory.
Cheers,
Peter
Thank you Peter, I knew I had read it but was under the impression caravans, RVs would not come in to it.
Where I been lately this was in my photo. Apparently this caravan manufacture knows the rules.
Not legal for either the lights or the number plates.
Not uncommon either.
Cheers,
Peter
And 3 demerit points,plus $400,if the constabulary decides to book you! Heard through the grapevine that that particular manufacturer no longer uses the McHitch system on their range,possibly for reasons that I have outlined previously.Cheers
Hi all, after further searching I found a downloadable draft copy of the latest applicable standard on line, AS/NZ 5601.2 - 2020. which provides a lot more information than the 2013 version (https://www.hcaa.org.au/resources/standards-australia-draft-comment-asnzs-56012). Looks like I will have to go back to the drawing board and rethink my storage ideas. Thanks for the storage ideas Bicyclecamper. Hopefully when the new standard, if it was adopted in full, is more broadly known it will encourage a few more toolbox manufacturers to bring out compliant models and bring prices down. $1800 from tcboxes.com.au is a bit high for a glorified toolbox.
That is a lot higher than legislation as mentioned above.
But it is not the primary brake light,rather an auxiliary. Perhaps the height of that light would place it better in the field of vision of the driver of a large truck? The floor of the cab on some of the trucks I drove was over 1500mm from the ground,so eye level would have been much higher.Cheers
The requirements for the eye level light are not part of the requirements for the tail/stop lamps. They are covered by a different set of clauses in the rules.
Spotted this on my morning walk.