SHOCK ABSORBERS ON A DUAL AXLE LEAF SPRING CARAVAN
EonMarie said
07:49 PM Nov 17, 2021
Following a broken spring recently, after travelling on some fairly rough roads in my 2013 Retreat Brampton, I feel it a good idea to add shock absorbers to the multiple leaf springs.
Seems a good improvement to me that can only help.? But maybe there is a reason it was not done in the first place other than cost or standard practice.
Have already replaced every spring in the process. Anyone out there got any experience to offer on this please.
Also I do not seem to see many other Brampton models on the road. Anyone else out there have one and if so how have you found it to be as a van?
Eon and Marie
Rob Driver said
08:17 PM Nov 17, 2021
Hi EonMarie,
Welcome to the forum
The van I had before my current independently sprung suspension was a two axle leaf spring load sharing suspension.
The previous owner had that van from new and as you have experienced, he broke a leaf and suffered severe wear on rockers and shackles.
He had shock absorbers fitted and had no more problems.
I toured for 4 years with that van and had no worries and I found it towed very well.
On rough roads we had very little, if any damage to items and fittings inside.
I would most certainly recommend fitting shocks as a worthwhile modification.
My van was not a Brampton brand but the shock absorber addition will only help the quality of travel as well as helping prevent tyre scalloping.
Some other may say not to fit them on rough stony roads because of stone damage but they are easily protected short term with a cut down pool noodle or you could make up metal protectors. Most people dont worry.
I hope this helps
Whenarewethere said
08:35 PM Nov 17, 2021
Did you let tyres down.
yobarr said
09:27 PM Nov 17, 2021
EonMarie wrote:
Following a broken spring recently, after travelling on some fairly rough roads in my 2013 Retreat Brampton, I feel it a good idea to add shock absorbers to the multiple leaf springs.
Seems a good improvement to me that can only help.? But maybe there is a reason it was not done in the first place other than cost or standard practice.
Have already replaced every spring in the process. Anyone out there got any experience to offer on this please.
Also I do not seem to see many other Brampton models on the road. Anyone else out there have one and if so how have you found it to be as a van?
Eon and Marie
As Jonathan has suggested,lowering tyre pressure is critical,but if the springs are tired,you'll still have trouble.Rob has told you of his experience, which is similar to mine. On the Suttor development road one of my spring packs disintegrated,and the first decent dip I passed through saw the wheel go through the top of the wheel arch.After limping to Mt Coolon I pulled it all apart, and decided that the springs were too light for the job at hand,so I drove to Brisbane and bought 4 new spring packs,each with a rating 40% greater than what had been fitted to the van.Like you,I wondered about fitting shocks,and eventually I fitted 4 EFS shocks. It is critical that you get the someone who knows what he is doing to design the way the shocks are fitted,so they do not bottom out on the compression stroke,or end up effectively carrying the whole axle assembly in the other direction. There has not been any change in the way the van tows,as it has always sat firmly on the road in all situations,but since fitting the new springs,and shocks,I have travelled thousands of kilometres on sub-standard roads with severe corrugations,and there has been no further problems.Bit late now,but it is important to make sure that the springs you fit are more than capable of handling the load they have to carry.And DON'T be tempted to buy El Cheapo shock absorbers or you'll regret it! Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 17th of November 2021 09:29:45 PM
Whenarewethere said
09:56 PM Nov 17, 2021
As Yobarr said.
Also give the shocks a break if driving long distances on corrugated roads & by default you get a break as well.
Formula for stresses in Outback Joe's webpage on corrugated roads. Also about a third down the page he gets onto tyre pressure.
Love that Outback Joe. Seems like great advice & I just love his sense of humor.
BTW .. My old Jayco does not have shockies to assist its load sharing / leaf / rocker suspension & after >220,000km & 22yrs I have never had spring / ride issues. But then I don't do dirt, am lightly loaded, probably run the tryes a bit low and never exceed 90km/hr. I had a specialist work over my suspension at 200,000 Km. He replaced the shackle pins & all rubbers.
Peter_n_Margaret said
01:20 AM Nov 18, 2021
Leaf springs have some self dampening due to the friction generated between the leaves and this seems to be why manufacturers often don't fit them. I suspect the real incentive is to save a few bucks. They should have them. If you try driving a leaf sprung car without them you will never question the need again.
Most independent suspensions on caravans are coil springs. They have no spring friction and dampers are essential to maintain control of the suspension, but the dampers will need to work much harder than with leaves, so the will wear out faster and two are often fitted to compensate.
Cheers,
Peter
Dougwe said
06:55 AM Nov 18, 2021
Welcome to the gang Eon and Marie, enjoy here and out in the playground.
I have a twin axle aluminium tent with leaf springs and also had a shocky fitted at each wheel during the build for added, hopefully, strength. After 7 years full time on the road all good so far. Does it help? Who knows I spose but I am happy to have them there, 'just in case'.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
KJB said
09:16 AM Nov 18, 2021
Possum3 wrote:
Slipper leaf spung is the most forgiving on rough roads - common in single axle vans not so common on dual/twin axles.
Personal preference is rocker eye assembly leaf sprung dual/twin axles. best all round setup for all terrains.
Shock absorbers are used mainly on independent suspensions and will require constant re-alignment.
Tyre pressure and speed are the factors that destroy spring assemblies.
If an "independent suspension" needs constant re-alignment it must have a major design or assembly flaw or it has been installed on a substandard chassis that has major flexing problems ......
All springs "rebound" once released from compression and as such need shock absorbers to control (slow down ) the "rebound "- other wise the spring and all that it is carrying is subject to a "pogo" effect of constant bouncing (which is detrimental in ,most cases' to the load it is carrying) . Shock absorbers do a lot of work . They convert the rebound energy to heat and have to dissipate it to the atmosphere hence the reason for them to get very hot -especially on corrugated roads. So just slow down and give the shock absorbers a chance to do their job and they will "handle with care" the vehicle/van and comfort of the passengers . KB
Aus-Kiwi said
11:28 AM Nov 18, 2021
Coil springs really need shocks. But fitting shocks ( yes in US they are called dampers ) to leaf . Main thing is make sure the brackets attaching them are strong at correct angle ! Often a little extra bracing ? Especially on caravans where saving weight is a priority!! Making sure they dont bind before suspension travel , bump stop !
Radar said
12:56 PM Nov 19, 2021
The articles I have read over the years by spring makers and suspension retailers is trailer spring packs do not require dampers.
Most common cause of damage is lose centre and U bolts, which I have routinely checked mine and managed a small amount of tension only.
The caravan has now approximately 80000 kilometres in 5 years with a mix of secondary and some unsealed rods without issues
I run the same tyre pressure for the caravan as I do for the rear axle of the tow vehicle following the manufacturer guidelines of 36 psi.
We are running below the suspension load rating by approximately 500 to 600 kilograms.
I drive to the conditions and not to the posted speed limit.
So, a big no from me for the need for dampers or shocker absorbers.
Peter_n_Margaret said
01:21 PM Nov 19, 2021
https://rvbooks.com.au/wheels-falling-off-trailers/ Far more wheels fall off caravans and camper trailers than ever from cars. Wrecked trailers with wheels torn off, or stub axles broken, litter mainly corrugated outback tracks. It does not, however, affect all trailers. If you inspect them you will find that almost all not just lack shock absorbers most lack provision for fitting them.
Cheers,
Peter
EonMarie said
01:50 PM Nov 19, 2021
Thanks to all for the comments and advice. Not sure if I am now more confused or enlightened.
currently leaning towards the idea of adding shocks on the basis a slowing down or damping of the rebound effect seems logical to me.
yobarr said
01:52 PM Nov 19, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
https://rvbooks.com.au/wheels-falling-off-trailers/ Far more wheels fall off caravans and camper trailers than ever from cars. Wrecked trailers with wheels torn off, or stub axles broken, litter mainly corrugated outback tracks. It does not, however, affect all trailers. If you inspect them you will find that almost all not just lack shock absorbers most lack provision for fitting them.
Cheers,
Peter
Thanks,Peter,for posting this,as I knew of it,but I do not know how to post "links" or whatever they're called.The fact that some claim to have towed for "million miles mate,no worries" and that this achievement (sic) is a result of "driving to the conditions mate" are dreaming.Such an achievement is purely a result of good luck.If the van being towed is lightly loaded,the springs may last longer before they break,but eventually they will break,as I found out in a recent $4500 exercise.Despite reassurances from spring makers that my van's springs were more than suitable,I was concerned about the spring capacity,so I decided to give them a bit of a workout while I still was in a relatively "civilised" area,within 1200km of Brisbane. As expected,a spring pack disintegrated,so I returned to Brisbane to purchase 4 new spring packs that were rated 40% higher than the originals. The van had no shocks,but I clearly recalled your suggestion that shocks should be used,so I did a bit of research before buying EFS XTR shocks,the same brand as I have had fitted to my car.Problem solved! Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 19th of November 2021 01:53:26 PM
yobarr said
01:55 PM Nov 19, 2021
EonMarie wrote:
Thanks to all for the comments and advice. Not sure if I am now more confused or enlightened. currently leaning towards the idea of adding shocks on the basis a slowing down or damping of the rebound effect seems logical to me.
Hi Eon.You already have had one spring break,so the fitting of shocks surely is a no-brainer? Cheers
Rob Driver said
02:11 PM Nov 19, 2021
yobarr wrote:
EonMarie wrote:
Thanks to all for the comments and advice. Not sure if I am now more confused or enlightened. currently leaning towards the idea of adding shocks on the basis a slowing down or damping of the rebound effect seems logical to me.
Hi Eon.You already have had one spring break,so the fitting of shocks surely is a no-brainer? Cheers
EonMarie,
No one on here knows how your van is serviced or operated so we only can offer general advice.
If you are never going off the bitumen again I probably would not bother but as your van is 11 years old and you have broken a spring indicates to me at least, that shock absorbers will most certainly help.
I think if you go and have a conversation with any of the suspension servicing companies they will almost surely recommend the fitting of shock absorbers.
I have never heard anyone with leaf springs and shockers fitted to their van say, well that was a waste of money.
Those companies will also know what shocks you will need and be able to supply suitable mounting brackets and will have the expertise to fit the lot correctly.
As yobarr said above, a no-brainer.
Aus-Kiwi said
05:42 PM Nov 20, 2021
Its a bit like saying Ive driven with cross ply tyres or drum brakes and never had trouble . Ive heard similar say the same to vaccines too !
Following a broken spring recently, after travelling on some fairly rough roads in my 2013 Retreat Brampton, I feel it a good idea to add shock absorbers to the multiple leaf springs.
Seems a good improvement to me that can only help.? But maybe there is a reason it was not done in the first place other than cost or standard practice.
Have already replaced every spring in the process. Anyone out there got any experience to offer on this please.
Also I do not seem to see many other Brampton models on the road. Anyone else out there have one and if so how have you found it to be as a van?
Eon and Marie
Welcome to the forum
The van I had before my current independently sprung suspension was a two axle leaf spring load sharing suspension.
The previous owner had that van from new and as you have experienced, he broke a leaf and suffered severe wear on rockers and shackles.
He had shock absorbers fitted and had no more problems.
I toured for 4 years with that van and had no worries and I found it towed very well.
On rough roads we had very little, if any damage to items and fittings inside.
I would most certainly recommend fitting shocks as a worthwhile modification.
My van was not a Brampton brand but the shock absorber addition will only help the quality of travel as well as helping prevent tyre scalloping.
Some other may say not to fit them on rough stony roads because of stone damage but they are easily protected short term with a cut down pool noodle or you could make up metal protectors. Most people dont worry.
I hope this helps
Did you let tyres down.
As Jonathan has suggested,lowering tyre pressure is critical,but if the springs are tired,you'll still have trouble.Rob has told you of his experience, which is similar to mine. On the Suttor development road one of my spring packs disintegrated,and the first decent dip I passed through saw the wheel go through the top of the wheel arch.After limping to Mt Coolon I pulled it all apart, and decided that the springs were too light for the job at hand,so I drove to Brisbane and bought 4 new spring packs,each with a rating 40% greater than what had been fitted to the van.Like you,I wondered about fitting shocks,and eventually I fitted 4 EFS shocks. It is critical that you get the someone who knows what he is doing to design the way the shocks are fitted,so they do not bottom out on the compression stroke,or end up effectively carrying the whole axle assembly in the other direction. There has not been any change in the way the van tows,as it has always sat firmly on the road in all situations,but since fitting the new springs,and shocks,I have travelled thousands of kilometres on sub-standard roads with severe corrugations,and there has been no further problems.Bit late now,but it is important to make sure that the springs you fit are more than capable of handling the load they have to carry.And DON'T be tempted to buy El Cheapo shock absorbers or you'll regret it! Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 17th of November 2021 09:29:45 PM
As Yobarr said.
Also give the shocks a break if driving long distances on corrugated roads & by default you get a break as well.
Formula for stresses in Outback Joe's webpage on corrugated roads. Also about a third down the page he gets onto tyre pressure.
https://outbackjoe.com/macho-divertissement/macho-articles/corrugations-fast-or-slow/
I'll add one comment and that is "shock adsorbers" are wrongly named.
They are in fact spring dampers and are designed to reduce the number of oscillations of the spring pack to approx 1&1/2 cycles.
In doing so they actually increase the forces transmitted to the chassis ,not reduce them.
Alan
Personal preference is rocker eye assembly leaf sprung dual/twin axles. best all round setup for all terrains.
Shock absorbers are used mainly on independent suspensions and will require constant re-alignment.
Tyre pressure and speed are the factors that destroy spring assemblies.
Love that Outback Joe. Seems like great advice & I just love his sense of humor.
BTW .. My old Jayco does not have shockies to assist its load sharing / leaf / rocker suspension & after >220,000km & 22yrs I have never had spring / ride issues. But then I don't do dirt, am lightly loaded, probably run the tryes a bit low and never exceed 90km/hr. I had a specialist work over my suspension at 200,000 Km. He replaced the shackle pins & all rubbers.
Most independent suspensions on caravans are coil springs. They have no spring friction and dampers are essential to maintain control of the suspension, but the dampers will need to work much harder than with leaves, so the will wear out faster and two are often fitted to compensate.
Cheers,
Peter
I have a twin axle aluminium tent with leaf springs and also had a shocky fitted at each wheel during the build for added, hopefully, strength. After 7 years full time on the road all good so far. Does it help? Who knows I spose but I am happy to have them there, 'just in case'.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
If an "independent suspension" needs constant re-alignment it must have a major design or assembly flaw or it has been installed on a substandard chassis that has major flexing problems ......
All springs "rebound" once released from compression and as such need shock absorbers to control (slow down ) the "rebound "- other wise the spring and all that it is carrying is subject to a "pogo" effect of constant bouncing (which is detrimental in ,most cases' to the load it is carrying) . Shock absorbers do a lot of work . They convert the rebound energy to heat and have to dissipate it to the atmosphere hence the reason for them to get very hot -especially on corrugated roads. So just slow down and give the shock absorbers a chance to do their job and they will "handle with care" the vehicle/van and comfort of the passengers . KB
The articles I have read over the years by spring makers and suspension retailers is trailer spring packs do not require dampers.
Most common cause of damage is lose centre and U bolts, which I have routinely checked mine and managed a small amount of tension only.
The caravan has now approximately 80000 kilometres in 5 years with a mix of secondary and some unsealed rods without issues
I run the same tyre pressure for the caravan as I do for the rear axle of the tow vehicle following the manufacturer guidelines of 36 psi.
We are running below the suspension load rating by approximately 500 to 600 kilograms.
I drive to the conditions and not to the posted speed limit.
So, a big no from me for the need for dampers or shocker absorbers.
https://rvbooks.com.au/wheels-falling-off-trailers/
Cheers,
Peter
currently leaning towards the idea of adding shocks on the basis a slowing down or damping of the rebound effect seems logical to me.
Thanks,Peter,for posting this,as I knew of it,but I do not know how to post "links" or whatever they're called.The fact that some claim to have towed for "million miles mate,no worries" and that this achievement (sic) is a result of "driving to the conditions mate" are dreaming.Such an achievement is purely a result of good luck.If the van being towed is lightly loaded,the springs may last longer before they break,but eventually they will break,as I found out in a recent $4500 exercise.Despite reassurances from spring makers that my van's springs were more than suitable,I was concerned about the spring capacity,so I decided to give them a bit of a workout while I still was in a relatively "civilised" area,within 1200km of Brisbane. As expected,a spring pack disintegrated,so I returned to Brisbane to purchase 4 new spring packs that were rated 40% higher than the originals. The van had no shocks,but I clearly recalled your suggestion that shocks should be used,so I did a bit of research before buying EFS XTR shocks,the same brand as I have had fitted to my car.Problem solved! Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 19th of November 2021 01:53:26 PM
Hi Eon.You already have had one spring break,so the fitting of shocks surely is a no-brainer? Cheers
EonMarie,
No one on here knows how your van is serviced or operated so we only can offer general advice.
If you are never going off the bitumen again I probably would not bother but as your van is 11 years old and you have broken a spring indicates to me at least, that shock absorbers will most certainly help.
I think if you go and have a conversation with any of the suspension servicing companies they will almost surely recommend the fitting of shock absorbers.
I have never heard anyone with leaf springs and shockers fitted to their van say, well that was a waste of money.
Those companies will also know what shocks you will need and be able to supply suitable mounting brackets and will have the expertise to fit the lot correctly.
As yobarr said above, a no-brainer.