So here I am sitting under my awning in a far north NSW caravan park enjoying the ambience and a glass of red. Across the way a young couple have checked into an on-site cabin and have now run a cord out of the cabin to their electric vehicle. I guess it will charge over night and cost the caravan park about 10-20 Kw of power at commercial rates.
So curiously got the better of me and I went over for a chat, as GNs do, and find out they are from Sydney and travelling to Brisbane for Christmas. They were pretty proud of the fact that they had found a way of charging their vehicle for nothing and saved all that money on fuel costs. This was their third night on the road because of the limited distance they can travel before requiring a recharg.
So back to my glass of red I start doing some maths (and guesswork). A fossil fuel powered vehicle driven by a similar young couple would generally do the trip in one day with no accommodation necessary. Cost of fuel say $150-$200. Compare that to this young couple who have paid maybe $300 ($100/night) in cabin accommodation to get their electricity for free.
Go figure, and spare a thought for the caravan park owners. Maybe thats the reason we are seeing some CPs charging for power.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:35 PM Dec 22, 2021
At 10 or 15 amp itll still take a while to charge ! In NZ they have found another way !
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 22nd of December 2021 09:50:07 PM
So here I am sitting under my awning in a far north NSW caravan park enjoying the ambience and a glass of red. Across the way a young couple have checked into an on-site cabin and have now run a cord out of the cabin to their electric vehicle. I guess it will charge over night and cost the caravan park about 10-20 Kw of power at commercial rates.
So curiously got the better of me and I went over for a chat, as GNs do, and find out they are from Sydney and travelling to Brisbane for Christmas. They were pretty proud of the fact that they had found a way of charging their vehicle for nothing and saved all that money on fuel costs. This was their third night on the road because of the limited distance they can travel before requiring a recharg.
So back to my glass of red I start doing some maths (and guesswork). A fossil fuel powered vehicle driven by a similar young couple would generally do the trip in one day with no accommodation necessary. Cost of fuel say $150-$200. Compare that to this young couple who have paid maybe $300 ($100/night) in cabin accommodation to get their electricity for free.
Go figure, and spare a thought for the caravan park owners. Maybe thats the reason we are seeing some CPs charging for power.
back in the 60s and70s it used to take 2 to 3 days to go from Sydney to Brisbane seems like we are going backwards to go forwards
Mike Harding said
07:19 AM Dec 23, 2021
Good observation Consumer Man.
Although some may laud electrical vehicles they do have some significant drawbacks and especially so in Australia. Fine for limited city use but not so good on the open road.
I imagine caravan parks will impose an extra charge for EV charging soon.
dabbler said
07:24 AM Dec 23, 2021
As a small EV owner, I'd suggest the timing was as much their choice as it was the range of their vehicle. Kinda like a GN who travels from one free camp to the next, time and distance isn't an issue. Cost of charging ? If they're taking 4 days (3 nights) assuming 250km/day, probably under $12 and unlikely to need overnight. Mine would need 8 hours at 10 amps for that distance. I've done 720km Gold Coast to Rocky with 2 faster recharges in a day and 3 days return to drop in to visit friends. Can't recall costs but less than the takeaway meal we had Maryborough. The same trip in the Hilux cost me $110 one way (last week).
Mike Harding said
07:28 AM Dec 23, 2021
dabbler wrote:
As a small EV owner
How tall are you?
Craig1 said
08:38 AM Dec 23, 2021
dont forget the premium cost of the "small ev ". 10-20K extra
Aus-Kiwi said
09:43 AM Dec 23, 2021
They are ok . Its a bit like looking after your house batteries ? You need to keep an outlook for charging and usage . In China there are battery swaps much like LPG bottles Swap and go . The battery needs to be like a drill where it clicks in fast !!
dabbler said
10:09 AM Dec 23, 2021
Yes @Craig1 they do have a premium cost but they also offer premium features compared to the ICE vehicles you're price-comparing against which are typically entry level. Some of those features are safety related too.
As I have said in other topics, most of this has once again, not been thought out.
Stealing electricity which is more than likely coal generated, to power a so called environmentally favourable vehicle does not add up to me.
The caravan park owner pays for their theft and then increases prices to cover such thefts.
I most certainly would not like a guest to arrive at my home and suggest they may hook up to MY electricity to charge their vehicle.
I currently dont supply petrol or diesel to visitors.
For every solution in being green there is always another problem.
Lets all rush in and not think about any repercussions and anyone thinking that an electric vehicle is green is dreaming while they are charging their warm and fuzzy vehicle with a non renewable electricity source.
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:44 AM Dec 23, 2021
I would have no problem supplying power to charge our friend's electric vehicles.
Our home solar is currently producing about 30kWhs per day. We use about 10kWhs of that and the rest is exported to the grid for about $2 (for 20kWh). The same woud apply to most people with home solar including a caravan park.
Even if it all came from the grid, that 20kWh is gong to cost about $6.
I am sure that the park is happy to supply $6 or more of electricity to get a $100 booking.
Cheers,
Peter
Rob Driver said
10:47 AM Dec 23, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I would have no problem supplying power to charge our friend's electric vehicles. Our home solar is currently producing about 30kWhs per day. We use about 10kWhs of that and the rest is exported to the grid for about $2 (for 20kWh). The same woud apply to most people with home solar including a caravan park. Even if it all came from the grid, that 20kWh is gong to cost about $6. I am sure that the park is happy to supply $6 or more of electricity to get a $100 booking. Cheers, Peter
Merry Xmas Peter.
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:47 AM Dec 23, 2021
Craig1 wrote:
dont forget the premium cost of the "small ev ". 10-20K extra
A while ago there was an article in the Open Road, the NRMA's magazine. They predicted that the cost of an EV would the same as the equivalent ICE by 2024. This date would change depending on government subsidies and climate change policies.
I intend to wait until then before I buy an EV unless one of my other cars die in the meantime.
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:52 AM Dec 23, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
Good observation Consumer Man.
Although some may laud electrical vehicles they do have some significant drawbacks and especially so in Australia. Fine for limited city use but not so good on the open road.
I imagine caravan parks will impose an extra charge for EV charging soon.
Many motoring associations and state governments are installing fast charging stations across Australia. *Maybe* the couple would have used those if they were available in the town where Consumer Man was staying?
Rob Driver said
10:57 AM Dec 23, 2021
Stolen electricity is still stolen no matter how it is absorbed by the park owner.
I doubt that many of members have actually owned and operated any business where a budget is required to achieve a profit.
Just add an extra cost to the supplier in any transaction and it is NOT JUSTIFIED by the statement that that is ok because he got a $100 dollar sale.
THAT IS NOT HOW BUSINESS ACTUALLY WORKS. I do note that many on here seem to think because they pay they are automatically entitled to unfunded extras from a supplier, be it a van park or any business which relies on calculations of profits and loss.
Theft is theft and it should never be condoned no matter what the circumstances.
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:00 AM Dec 23, 2021
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
They are ok . Its a bit like looking after your house batteries ? You need to keep an outlook for charging and usage . In China there are battery swaps much like LPG bottles Swap and go . The battery needs to be like a drill where it clicks in fast !!
Years ago I was looking at buying a little electric motor bike for getting around town. I saw that there was a battery swap system in Taiwan for such vehicles. It was like a stand where one paid for the battery, put in the rack of flat batteries from one's EV, pulled out a rack of batteries from the stand, put it into one's EV and off you go. These stands we supposedly all over the place. Car parks, petrol stations, shopping malls, etcetera. I thought it was a really good idea. It would probably be quicker than filling up with petrol.
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:04 AM Dec 23, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I would have no problem supplying power to charge our friend's electric vehicles. Our home solar is currently producing about 30kWhs per day. We use about 10kWhs of that and the rest is exported to the grid for about $2 (for 20kWh). The same woud apply to most people with home solar including a caravan park. Even if it all came from the grid, that 20kWh is gong to cost about $6. I am sure that the park is happy to supply $6 or more of electricity to get a $100 booking. Cheers, Peter
I'd imagine most visitors wouldn't ask. They'd probably have thought of the logistics before visiting and if they were there for a while they'd probably go to a local fast charge facility.
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:09 AM Dec 23, 2021
Rob Driver wrote:
As I have said in other topics, most of this has once again, not been thought out.
Stealing electricity which is more than likely coal generated, to power a so called environmentally favourable vehicle does not add up to me.
The caravan park owner pays for their theft and then increases prices to cover such thefts.
I most certainly would not like a guest to arrive at my home and suggest they may hook up to MY electricity to charge their vehicle. I currently dont supply petrol or diesel to visitors.
For every solution in being green there is always another problem.
Lets all rush in and not think about any repercussions and anyone thinking that an electric vehicle is green is dreaming while they are charging their warm and fuzzy vehicle with a non renewable electricity source.
I recently read that the environmental cost of an EV is half that of the equivalent ICE over their life times even if the electricity is provided by fossil fuel sources.
dabbler said
12:05 PM Dec 23, 2021
Stolen or included in the accommodation ? How many people charge every possible battery when using powered site. Yes, you know. Get over your misplaced indignity, it just displays your bias and in the absence actual knowledge of circumstances is meaningless.
dabbler said
12:34 PM Dec 23, 2021
A quick search on Plugshare finds 2 caravan parks on the Pacific around 250 and 300km from Sydney that offer 240v 10amp and 15amp GPOs to paying customers at no additional charge. Plus dozens more networked EV charging systems at pubs, CP and motels. They're on Plugshare because they want the business and presumably recognize it as a value to their businesses.
deverall11 said
12:36 PM Dec 23, 2021
Rob Driver wrote:
Stolen electricity is still stolen no matter how it is absorbed by the park owner.
I doubt that many of members have actually owned and operated any business where a budget is required to achieve a profit.
Just add an extra cost to the supplier in any transaction and it is NOT JUSTIFIED by the statement that that is ok because he got a $100 dollar sale.
THAT IS NOT HOW BUSINESS ACTUALLY WORKS. I do note that many on here seem to think because they pay they are automatically entitled to unfunded extras from a supplier, be it a van park or any business which relies on calculations of profits and loss.
Theft is theft and it should never be condoned no matter what the circumstances.
Stolen or not, the quicker caravan park operators move to a 'Pay As You Go' method for charging electricity costs, the better of we'll all be.
Here's an example:
The yuppies who rock up in their brand new fandangle van and 4WD, setup, turn on the A/C and disappear for the next 6 hrs.
Who pays for that usage. Is that not a form of stealing?
Larry
Mike Harding said
12:37 PM Dec 23, 2021
dabbler wrote:
Stolen or included in the accommodation ?
It may not, technically, be theft but it is certainly well outside the spirit of the contract between guest and park owner.
I guess it depends how one operates in life: grasp everything one can or play fair with others? Hopefully karma will be the final arbiter.
Aussie1 said
12:42 PM Dec 23, 2021
dabbler wrote:
Stolen or included in the accommodation ? How many people charge every possible battery when using powered site. Yes, you know. Get over your misplaced indignity, it just displays your bias and in the absence actual knowledge of circumstances is meaningless.
Good post in line with the Xmas spirit you could have at least finished of by wishing the guy Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year
dabbler said
01:12 PM Dec 23, 2021
Mike, did you even read my following post? It's not theft if included in the fee and every anti-EV poster has just assumed it isn't included yet there are places that do include EV charging at no additional cost. We really don't know the full story do we ?
dabbler said
01:13 PM Dec 23, 2021
Merry Christmas to all. Don't break a leg jumping to conclusions, they don't "technically" allow drinking alcohol in hospital waiting rooms.
Rob Driver said
01:23 PM Dec 23, 2021
dabbler wrote:
Stolen or included in the accommodation ? How many people charge every possible battery when using powered site. Yes, you know. Get over your misplaced indignity, it just displays your bias and in the absence actual knowledge of circumstances is meaningless.
This couple were in a cabin, one could argue that this is quite ok to do the same theft from a motel room.
The simple facts are that the power was stolen probably by deception and that power was not taxed for EV use.
From the original post..
*They were pretty proud of the fact that they had found a way of charging their vehicle for nothing and saved all that money on fuel costs.*
This says it all,
all the research on where and where not there are charging stations does not condone theft even if by deception.
I am in no way bias toward the development of EVs and other methods of having clean air however as I have stated several times before, a lot of the glitches in operation of these vehicles has been overlooked and not thought through. At this moment a large percentage of their operation IS NOT GREEN.
While you are charging your vehicle from a power outlet most of the power comes from coal fired power stations so you arent as green as you are cabbage looking.
Convince me and any others that you are green within the true meaning when charging your car from a caravan cabin power point.
For those who think these car chargers are everywhere, you really need to get out more.
Anyway justify theft if you must by claiming that I am ignorant or indignant whatever you need to get that warm and fuzzy holier than tho, feeling.
Plug your EV in and enjoy your Xmas.
-- Edited by Rob Driver on Thursday 23rd of December 2021 01:23:47 PM
Wanda said
01:25 PM Dec 23, 2021
Rob Driver wrote:
Stolen electricity is still stolen no matter how it is absorbed by the park owner.
I doubt that many of members have actually owned and operated any business where a budget is required to achieve a profit.
Just add an extra cost to the supplier in any transaction and it is NOT JUSTIFIED by the statement that that is ok because he got a $100 dollar sale.
THAT IS NOT HOW BUSINESS ACTUALLY WORKS. I do note that many on here seem to think because they pay they are automatically entitled to unfunded extras from a supplier, be it a van park or any business which relies on calculations of profits and loss.
Theft is theft and it should never be condoned no matter what the circumstances.
Who said they were stealng it, maybe they(C/P) were aware of what the people were doing, maybe they(EV owners) asked permisssion!!
They were pretty proud of the fact that they had found a way of charging their vehicle for nothing and saved all that money on fuel costs.*
But you have decided its theft, really!!
Theft is theft, I think we all get that, maybe check your facts next time! Not possible because in this case as you were not there.
Have a good xmas
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Thursday 23rd of December 2021 01:28:44 PM
Mike Harding said
01:26 PM Dec 23, 2021
dabbler wrote:
Mike, did you even read my following post? It's not theft if included in the fee and every anti-EV poster has just assumed it isn't included yet there are places that do include EV charging at no additional cost. We really don't know the full story do we ?
Of course not. You posted it whilst I was constructing mine - look at the time stamps.
The fact that some caravan parks may welcome EVs does not affect the reality that the vast majority will not expect guests to grab a huge bucketful of electricity. The next time I stay in a caravan park perhaps I should take my 10,000L water tanker, after all... water is included.
So here I am sitting under my awning in a far north NSW caravan park enjoying the ambience and a glass of red. Across the way a young couple have checked into an on-site cabin and have now run a cord out of the cabin to their electric vehicle. I guess it will charge over night and cost the caravan park about 10-20 Kw of power at commercial rates.
So curiously got the better of me and I went over for a chat, as GNs do, and find out they are from Sydney and travelling to Brisbane for Christmas. They were pretty proud of the fact that they had found a way of charging their vehicle for nothing and saved all that money on fuel costs. This was their third night on the road because of the limited distance they can travel before requiring a recharg.
So back to my glass of red I start doing some maths (and guesswork). A fossil fuel powered vehicle driven by a similar young couple would generally do the trip in one day with no accommodation necessary. Cost of fuel say $150-$200. Compare that to this young couple who have paid maybe $300 ($100/night) in cabin accommodation to get their electricity for free.
Go figure, and spare a thought for the caravan park owners. Maybe thats the reason we are seeing some CPs charging for power.
At 10 or 15 amp itll still take a while to charge ! In NZ they have found another way !
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 22nd of December 2021 09:50:07 PM
back in the 60s and70s it used to take 2 to 3 days to go from Sydney to Brisbane seems like we are going backwards to go forwards
Good observation Consumer Man.
Although some may laud electrical vehicles they do have some significant drawbacks and especially so in Australia. Fine for limited city use but not so good on the open road.
I imagine caravan parks will impose an extra charge for EV charging soon.
How tall are you?
Stealing electricity which is more than likely coal generated, to power a so called environmentally favourable vehicle does not add up to me.
The caravan park owner pays for their theft and then increases prices to cover such thefts.
I most certainly would not like a guest to arrive at my home and suggest they may hook up to MY electricity to charge their vehicle.
I currently dont supply petrol or diesel to visitors.
For every solution in being green there is always another problem.
Lets all rush in and not think about any repercussions and anyone thinking that an electric vehicle is green is dreaming while they are charging their warm and fuzzy vehicle with a non renewable electricity source.
Our home solar is currently producing about 30kWhs per day. We use about 10kWhs of that and the rest is exported to the grid for about $2 (for 20kWh). The same woud apply to most people with home solar including a caravan park.
Even if it all came from the grid, that 20kWh is gong to cost about $6.
I am sure that the park is happy to supply $6 or more of electricity to get a $100 booking.
Cheers,
Peter
Merry Xmas Peter.
A while ago there was an article in the Open Road, the NRMA's magazine. They predicted that the cost of an EV would the same as the equivalent ICE by 2024. This date would change depending on government subsidies and climate change policies.
I intend to wait until then before I buy an EV unless one of my other cars die in the meantime.
Many motoring associations and state governments are installing fast charging stations across Australia. *Maybe* the couple would have used those if they were available in the town where Consumer Man was staying?
I doubt that many of members have actually owned and operated any business where a budget is required to achieve a profit.
Just add an extra cost to the supplier in any transaction and it is NOT JUSTIFIED by the statement that that is ok because he got a $100 dollar sale.
THAT IS NOT HOW BUSINESS ACTUALLY WORKS. I do note that many on here seem to think because they pay they are automatically entitled to unfunded extras from a supplier, be it a van park or any business which relies on calculations of profits and loss.
Theft is theft and it should never be condoned no matter what the circumstances.
Years ago I was looking at buying a little electric motor bike for getting around town. I saw that there was a battery swap system in Taiwan for such vehicles. It was like a stand where one paid for the battery, put in the rack of flat batteries from one's EV, pulled out a rack of batteries from the stand, put it into one's EV and off you go. These stands we supposedly all over the place. Car parks, petrol stations, shopping malls, etcetera. I thought it was a really good idea. It would probably be quicker than filling up with petrol.
I'd imagine most visitors wouldn't ask. They'd probably have thought of the logistics before visiting and if they were there for a while they'd probably go to a local fast charge facility.
I recently read that the environmental cost of an EV is half that of the equivalent ICE over their life times even if the electricity is provided by fossil fuel sources.
Stolen or not, the quicker caravan park operators move to a 'Pay As You Go' method for charging electricity costs, the better of we'll all be.
Here's an example:
The yuppies who rock up in their brand new fandangle van and 4WD, setup, turn on the A/C and disappear for the next 6 hrs.
Who pays for that usage. Is that not a form of stealing?
Larry
It may not, technically, be theft but it is certainly well outside the spirit of the contract between guest and park owner.
I guess it depends how one operates in life: grasp everything one can or play fair with others? Hopefully karma will be the final arbiter.
Good post in line with the Xmas spirit
you could have at least finished of by wishing the guy Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year 
This couple were in a cabin, one could argue that this is quite ok to do the same theft from a motel room.
The simple facts are that the power was stolen probably by deception and that power was not taxed for EV use.
From the original post..
*They were pretty proud of the fact that they had found a way of charging their vehicle for nothing and saved all that money on fuel costs.*
This says it all,
all the research on where and where not there are charging stations does not condone theft even if by deception.
I am in no way bias toward the development of EVs and other methods of having clean air however as I have stated several times before, a lot of the glitches in operation of these vehicles has been overlooked and not thought through. At this moment a large percentage of their operation IS NOT GREEN.
While you are charging your vehicle from a power outlet most of the power comes from coal fired power stations so you arent as green as you are cabbage looking.
Convince me and any others that you are green within the true meaning when charging your car from a caravan cabin power point.
For those who think these car chargers are everywhere, you really need to get out more.
Anyway justify theft if you must by claiming that I am ignorant or indignant whatever you need to get that warm and fuzzy holier than tho, feeling.
Plug your EV in and enjoy your Xmas.
-- Edited by Rob Driver on Thursday 23rd of December 2021 01:23:47 PM
Who said they were stealng it, maybe they(C/P) were aware of what the people were doing, maybe they(EV owners) asked permisssion!!
They were pretty proud of the fact that they had found a way of charging their vehicle for nothing and saved all that money on fuel costs.*
But you have decided its theft, really!!
Theft is theft, I think we all get that, maybe check your facts next time! Not possible because in this case as you were not there.
Have a good xmas
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Thursday 23rd of December 2021 01:28:44 PM
Of course not. You posted it whilst I was constructing mine - look at the time stamps.
The fact that some caravan parks may welcome EVs does not affect the reality that the vast majority will not expect guests to grab a huge bucketful of electricity. The next time I stay in a caravan park perhaps I should take my 10,000L water tanker, after all... water is included.