Caravan insurance is a Mine field aswell and I have come across insurance companies will Not mention name on forum but there are a few. The problem you have is when you are on the road more than 6 weeks to 8 weeks a year you are classified as No fixed abode (as we are) and dont want to insure you as storage and garaging of your caravan becomes a danger to insurance company. This means too much of a risk to insure even though Caravan Parks are classed as not Secure and that a caravan site is not a garage. So please tell me people I am a Grey Nomad a caravanner, Trailer Trash But I am in the twilight of my life and to waste 25 to 30 minutes talking to a company that will not insure you anyway, my time is precious what time I have left, we need a simple insurance solution. Presently have 23 foot New Age 2017 presently excessively paying through broker $1500+ and the depreciation goes down each year. So this is my Dilemma any answers would be appreciated.
-- Edited by robails1 on Tuesday 25th of January 2022 10:02:56 AM
travelyounger said
10:59 AM Jan 25, 2022
robails1 wrote:
Caravan insurance is a Mine field aswell and I have come across insurance companies will Not mention name on forum but there are a few. The problem you have is when you are on the road more than 6 weeks to 8 weeks a year you are classified as No fixed abode (as we are) and dont want to insure you as storage and garaging of your caravan becomes a danger to insurance company. This means too much of a risk to insure even though Caravan Parks are classed as not Secure and that a caravan site is not a garage. So please tell me people I am a Grey Nomad a caravanner, Trailer Trash But I am in the twilight of my life and to waste 25 to 30 minutes talking to a company that will not insure you anyway, my time is precious what time I have left, we need a simple insurance solution. Presently have 23 foot New Age 2017 presently excessively paying through broker $1500+ and the depreciation goes down each year. So this is my Dilemma any answers would be appreciated.
-- Edited by robails1 on Tuesday 25th of January 2022 10:02:56 AM
Only tell them what you need to
gdayjr said
11:26 AM Jan 25, 2022
I am looking forward to these same discusions this year.
The new vehicles are both due in May/July
New caravan. Cost $117,000.
New Prime mover. Cost $85,000
I will permently on the road, but a postal address in Victoria.
(Unless you are from centerlink, then i live in Victoria, and travel for extended periods on multiple occasions during the year).
Initial inquiries with some companies resulted in a flat refusal to insure a caran valued at over $80k.
Without the actual registration number the major players will not even entertain giving me an estimate.
Same story with a broker, just to hard for them.
Mike Harding said
01:31 PM Jan 25, 2022
I live with my son in Melbourne... at least that's what Vic Roads accept along with a number of other official organisations and that is what I tell my caravan insurers.
Having got the above sorted I then proceeded to take some very long holidays travelling around Australia and spending lots of time in various bush campsites as I commune with nature and write my novel.
I'm not a nomad and I don't live in my caravan and I'd like to see my insurers prove otherwise.
Indeed I am at my son's home as I write this - although for the first time in nine months.
Just sometimes... there is such a thing as too much truth....
vince56 said
01:54 PM Jan 25, 2022
My input to this is to watch what you disclose to the Insurer, if it is untrue or bending the truth you will be amazed how much they can find out if they are facing a major claim. Reading the fine print in the insurance company's PDS will probably be a surprise to a lot of caravanners.
Mike Harding said
03:56 PM Jan 25, 2022
vince56 wrote:
Reading the fine print in the insurance company's PDS will probably be a surprise to a lot of caravanners.
Why, what does it say?
SoloMC said
04:58 PM Jan 25, 2022
Dont tell lies to your insurance company or it will come back and bite you one day. I know plenty of people who have had claims declined simply because of what they told the insurer.
I'm with AAMI and each year I tell them that I'm a full time traveller and live permanently on the road.
Each year they ask are you still living fulltime in the van? so they know what I'm doing and its recorded (by me as well)
If your insurer doesnt like what you do then change insurer
If your insurer doesnt do what you want then get another one. Its your $
There is an old saying that using a broker will send you broker
Do your own research and ditch the broker because they only have a few companies that they deal with
Hitting the road said
05:18 PM Jan 25, 2022
I am an Insurance Broker...lucky me eh.
Look, as hard as it is to swallow, there are a whole lot of people out there who are liars and cheats, and will try to pull the wool at every opportunity, so over the phone an Insurer has to be cautious about what they say and do....besides the plethora of rules and regulations they have to abide by.
The people you speak to on the phone when calling an "online" insurer are usually not qualified to give any advice at all, all they can do is read from a script and tell you how much it'll cost you. They can't tell you whether their policy is a good policy or an average one, or how hard it is to have your claim processed in a timely manner.
Premiums are always increasing, i have seen increases averaging at least 5% a year for many years. Though, when a vehicle ages it depreciates in "market value", yet each year the premiums are increasing for a lower exposure for the Insurer. What drives the increases? Ever increasing parts costs and labour costs mainly drive the premium increases.
As far as quotes go, I can run up numbers on the systems we use for pretty much anything, except caravans, they always need to be quoted by the underwriter.
Yes, please read the PDS, as boring as it may be, i read plenty of them in order to find the right policy wording and conditions to suit a particular risk or client. I don't need to find after a policy is issued that a future claim made is not covered.
I insure my van myself of course through my Brokerage and pay the premium nett of commission naturally...the $54k my van with accessories is insured for costs me around $700 a year inc taxes...not the cheapest I am sure, but fortunately I have seen how the insurer handles claims and am quite happy with them.
As far as i am aware there is no exclusion in my policy on a person residing in their van living for extended periods, or enjoying a nomadic life style either...there may be some conditions attached to a particular risk. There are not many options really when it comes to motor insurance, sometimes it is just a matter taking what is available.
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:19 PM Jan 25, 2022
SoloMC wrote:
Do your own research and ditch the broker because they only have a few companies that they deal with
Not mine :)
Cheers,
Peter
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:23 PM Jan 25, 2022
robails1 wrote:
The problem you have is when you are on the road more than 6 weeks to 8 weeks a year you are classified as No fixed abode (as we are) and dont want to insure you as storage and garaging of your caravan becomes a danger to insurance company.
Never heard that before. You need to try someone else. ANYONE else.
Some years we travel 8 months per year, some we have travelled none (because we were overseas). Never had an issue travelling or parked up.
Cheers,
Peter
vince56 said
08:02 AM Jan 26, 2022
Mike, As above, an insurance broker "Hitting the Road" advises, read the PDS!
montie said
09:06 AM Jan 26, 2022
As SoloMC advised...do not lie to your insurance company or withold relevant information....It will come back to bite you in the event of a claim.
Unless you are very experienced in dealing with insurance companies the services of a broker is probably not a bad idea
Those sales people that you talk to on the phone when getting a quote would have no idea what's in the PDS.
Bobdown said
11:09 AM Jan 26, 2022
QBE $753 for 2017 21ft van........3 months lay off not in use. No questions about living full/part time, just insure the van not lifestyle.
Cheers Bob
Mike Harding said
01:36 PM Jan 26, 2022
vince56 wrote:
Mike, As above, an insurance broker "Hitting the Road" advises, read the PDS!
I have, many times - and I'm asking why you assert that it will be a surprise?
Hitting the road said
04:21 PM Jan 26, 2022
Most people do not read the "fine print" in their Insurance policy...the PDS. They only cry out when they have a claim and find it is rejected as it is outside of the policy conditions or wording...that they didn't bother to read.
Too many people shop around on price alone, never bothering to read or know what they are actually paying for...just looking for the cheapest insurance policy they can find. If you are thinking your policy is expensive, read the PDS, and then read the PDS of the cheap policy and note the differences. How long it takes to process a claim, and the follow up if any issues is something you won't read in any PDS though.
What never ceases to amaze me too, is the number of people who will spend $100,000.00 plus buying the caravan or RV they always dreamed about, then go out and buy the cheapest insurance policy they can find to insure their $100,000.00 plus investment, to save themselves maybe a couple of hundred dollars...until of course they have a claim then it costs them a hell of a lot more.
And, when it comes to Brokers, a good idea indeed if you are not prepared to take a risk.. An Insurance Broker has to carry Professional Indemnity insurance, which is there to cover any costs should a client be left out of pocket due to a Broker's negligence...and that can even mean selling a poor quality policy that does not meet the criteria requested by the client...unless the Broker had advised the client of any shortfalls in cover and the client accepted the risk.
If a person is not happy they can go to another Broker. Keeping in mind there is only a finite number of Insurance companies that will insure RV's and caravans, there ain't dozens of them!
The cheap online Insurers won't deal with Brokers for many reasons, but i find that more often than not the quality Insurance companies Brokers' deal with are no dearer than the el-cheapo Direct Insurers, but usually offer better coverage.
These days a Broker has to also state what he earns from a placement, there is a commission available from the Insurer, and a Broker can also charge a fee. Often a Broker will "nett" the premium to save his client some money and then add a small fee in lieu of the commission. Using a Broker is not expensive, it is a cheap insurance as the Broker working for his client will "go in to bat" for his client and will often have a far better chance of having a claim paid than if a person tries to take on an Insurer individually.
With respect, a poster above suggested "ditching" the Broker and doing your own research. All I can say to that is knock yourself out, but don't whinge and moan when your claim is rejected due to the cheap policy you bought not covering what you "thought" it did...
Mike Harding said
04:48 PM Jan 26, 2022
Perhaps, Hitting the Road, you will provide a few examples from competing company's PDS' why a policy which is a "couple of hundred dollars" more is so much better than the cheaper policy? If you can back this up with real world examples rather than PDS' promises that would be really interesting.
I am, you see, unconvinced that dearer insurance companies (or any insurance companies come to that) really have their clients best interests at heart.
vince56 said
05:14 PM Jan 26, 2022
Is this a court case? All I said was "Reading the fine print in the insurance company's PDS will probably be a surprise to a lot of caravanners."
We are just exchanging thoughts and ideas here by the way, why should contributors be harangued into "provide a few examples from competing company's PDS' why a policy which is a "couple of hundred dollars" more.
I am not here to answer questions from the defence....
Mike Harding said
08:39 PM Jan 26, 2022
vince56 wrote:
All I said was "Reading the fine print in the insurance company's PDS will probably be a surprise to a lot of caravanners."
Actually my last post was addressed to "Hitting the Road"... unless you are one and the same?
If we unpack your above statement what it actually says is: "I have a detailed knowledge of this area which you ordinary people don't."
If you are going to make such wide and sweeping statements then do not be surprised when asked to justify them - so I ask you once again; why do you think we would be surprised?
ConsumerMan said
09:07 PM Jan 26, 2022
I am always intrigued whenever the subject of insurance is raised and people say something like you have to read the fine print. I think the fine print in insurance policies stopped at the same time as the Insurance Contracts Act was enacted in Australia, so around 1984. Indeed with personal lines insurance, of which caravan insurance is one such policy, you will generally find all exclusions are printed in bold red text. In other words what you are not covered for is clearly highlighted.
I am also intrigued when people say tell the insurer as little as possible. The Insurance Contracts Act 1984 provides some obligations on the insurance buyer. It is called The Duty of Disclosure. You will find this duty explained in the front of your PDS and whenever you renew or request an alteration to you policy. In brief the insurance buyer has a duty to disclose to an insurer any material fact which a reasonable person feels the insurer needs to know to make a decision on whether to enter into a policy of insurance with you. For example pre existing hail damage. The Duty of Disclosure does not include matters an insurer knows or should know already. An example here could be that the caravan model that you want to insure does not come standard with ESC.
The insurer has certain remedies within the terms of the Insurance Contracts Act 1984 to deal with non disclosure. The insurer may reduce a claim by the amount of non-disclosure or avoid the policy from its inception if the non disclosure was fraudulent.
Do I have that right Hitting the Road/Insurance Broker.
Knightrider said
09:46 PM Jan 26, 2022
There are a few responses here that make a lot of sense "Hitting the Road", Vince 56, ConsumerMan are those. Can I say, with a lot of experience, many of the other responses should be file in the "idiot basket". Ignore those who tell you not to tell the Insurer the full truth, because when push comes to shove they won't be anywhere to be found when or if your Insurer denies a claim. As the smart ones have said "Read the PDS", make sure it is suitable for what you require.
Are We Lost said
02:14 PM Jan 27, 2022
This thread gave me a nudge to have a closer look at my PDS. My cover is with NRMA.
ConsumerMan notes that "the fine print" went out many years ago, with the wording now mandated to be easy to read. I find that a relative term. It probably took me an hour reading through the PDS. It still needs careful reading, and some things are easy to gloss over. But I did not see any terms that would have stopped me getting the policy. Some I didn't like, but would the next insurer be any different? They would have their own exclusions that may be better or worse.
Some exclusions I found a bit surprising:
There is no cover for loss due to "Atmospheric conditions or extreme temperature". These terms are not defined, so I thought it meant no hail or cyclone cover. But "Storm" is defined and that includes hail, violent wind, cyclone etc, and is covered with some limitations. I wonder what is therefore excluded by "Atmospheric conditions".
Under Legal Liability, I found that if the van gets detached while the vehicle is in use, there is no Legal Liability cover. Also, the opposite. There is no Legal Liabilty cover if the van is attached to the tow vehicle. Presumably any claims here would fall under tow vehicle liability. It's probably a stretch, but if you were camped and still remained hooked up, then technically there is no Legal Liability cover.
"We do not cover legal liability .....
I think the next improvement to make insurance easier for the consumer is to develop a standard base policy with fixed inclusions and exclusions that is identical across all insurers. Then they can add their own improvements or exclusions. That way a consumer only needs to look at the changes offered by that insurer. It would be nice, but I can't see it happening in my lifetime.
AWL, who insures your tow vehicle?, that should cover liability when towing. Or it did in the good old days.
Just check my AAMI policy for tug and it covers any damage to anyone else's gear caused by the caravan or trailer being towed.
CIL & Elders both cover legal liability for Caravan, they will only pay one claim though, no doubling up.
-- Edited by Craig1 on Thursday 27th of January 2022 02:41:11 PM
Are We Lost said
04:34 PM Jan 27, 2022
Craig1 wrote:
AWL, who insures your tow vehicle?, that should cover liability when towing. Or it did in the good old days.
Just check my AAMI policy for tug and it covers any damage to anyone else's gear caused by the caravan or trailer being towed.
CIL & Elders both cover legal liability for Caravan, they will only pay one claim though, no doubling up.
-- Edited by Craig1 on Thursday 27th of January 2022 02:41:11 PM
Yes, I had a read of the tow vehicle PDS (APIA) and can confirm that Third Party Property Damage caused by the van is covered by the tow vehicle policy. Third Party Personal injury is covered by the CTP of the tow vehicle.
The caravan policy covers Third PartyProperty AND Personal Injury. But as I mentioned earlier, there seems to be a bit of a hole if the van is still attached, but the tow vehicle is not in use. Maybe just a technicality.
SoloMC said
04:34 PM Jan 27, 2022
Hi Hitting the road
I was the one suggesting people do their own research
I had a lot to do with brokers for several years and that comment (using a broker will just make you broker) was something I heard early on - directly from brokers
My understanding re brokers is that they DONT get quotes from every insurer but have several insurers who they deal with and get the best deal for their clients from the insurers they deal with.
Do you get quotes from every insurer every time? If so I apologise
Re doing your own research, I agree that most people dont read the PDS but I do.
I do my own research and I know exactly what is and isnt covered instead of relying on others to advise me
The policy isnt the cheapest but it covers exactly what I need.
I'm not time poor so I can spend as long as I want to read and digest the pds
I have never had a claim declined
vince56 said
05:40 PM Jan 27, 2022
Thank You to "Are We Lost" who was surprised at items in his PDS after reading this thread - vindicates my statement and that is all about that from me.
As far as "I have a detailed knowledge of this area which you ordinary people don't.", once again this is just trying to get a bite, which I wont, and that is also all on that subject from me.
Hitting the road said
06:06 PM Jan 27, 2022
...whenever the subject of insurance is raised and people say something like you have to read the fine print.... I think the fine print in insurance policies stopped at the same time as the Insurance Contracts Act was enacted in Australia.
"Fine Print" is merely a common term used by many to describe something that a lot people would not be aware of or not bother reading...there is in reality no such thing anymore as "Fine Print"...
What the Insurance Contracts Act set out to do was to remove the potentially confusing wording from Insurance Contracts. Early contract wording often needed a Rhodes Scholar to define and translate so the average person could understand.
The you have the Insurance Code of Practice which brings in further obligations to both Brokers and Insurers.
Insurers were required to ensure any policy wording was never ambiguous and that the "average" person would be able to read and understand each Party's obligations. Exclusions are always made plain and obvious to anybody reading the Policy wording.
The insurer has certain remedies within the terms of the Insurance Contracts Act 1984 to deal with non disclosure. The insurer may reduce a claim by the amount of non-disclosure or avoid the policy from its inception if the non disclosure was fraudulent.
Do I have that right Hitting the Road/Insurance Broker.
Yep...correct. Fair enough too, should something come to light at the time a claim is made an Insurer can deny or reduce a claim accordingly.
A few here have mentioned Third party Property Damage cover...a caravan or any trailer for that matter does not have any Third Party Property Damage cover within the premium...why?...because it cannot go anywhere to hit anything without being attached to a vehicle. The vehicles carries the TPPD cover.
Your caravan policy also includes Public / Legal Liability. This insures the policy holder in the event they or the van were to cause injury or damage property somehow, Could well be while disconnected from the tow vehicle. If a van were to become unhitched and career off and hit some people or cars the Legal Liability included in the policy may come in to play depending on circumstances.
Another term you could use to describe Public Liability or Legal Liability is "negligence" insurance. If you are found by a Court to have been "negligent" and Legally Liable then the policy will be triggered.
I know there are a few people that don't bother insuring their van because they don't think it is worth it to do so. As mentioned above any damage caused by the van such as side swiping another vehicle or what ever, the damages are covered by the towing vehicle. But being uninsured leaves an exposure for any potential Legal Liability.
In answer to SoloMC, yes most Brokers will deal with a circle of Insurers as they know the policy wording and they know the Insurer pays claims. Insurers do change and update their policy wording reasonably regularly in fact, so it pays to be on top of these changes.
A Broker may have a handful of insurers he / she trusts and uses for domestic type policies, and another handful for commercial type policies. Not all Insurers insure all risks, most are niche insurers specialising in one area. Remembering if a Broker screws up and misses something he will be held financially liable for any losses incurred by his client.
To give an idea too, there are around 95 different Insurance Companies available for me to approach as a Broker... it is just not possible or practical to be across every single one of them. Fortunately of that number only maybe 6 or 7 will consider caravans and RV's...
ConsumerMan said
08:41 PM Jan 27, 2022
Hey Hitting the Road, you talk about negligence. I have always understood the word negligence was a word never uttered by insurance people. Please correct me if I am wrong but these days I dont think you will find the word/term negligence in any insurers Liability PDS. Instead, the operative clause in (most/all I am suggesting) PDS reads Legal liability to compensate. From my legal studies, in certain circumstances, a person can be negligent but may not be legally liable.
Anyway, I am aware I must be boring other members by now.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:56 PM Jan 27, 2022
Hitting the road wrote:
To give an idea too, there are around 95 different Insurance Companies available for me to approach as a Broker...
And some (at least one) that are not able to be approached by a broker.
I put all of our insurance through a broker EXCEPT for the motorhome because the broker can not deal with Ken Tame.
Cheers,
Peter
robails1 said
09:54 AM Jul 5, 2022
In response my personal insurance dilemma, I am still stumped that caravanners, nomads,Travelling Trailer Trash ( which I Am) are still classed as Gypsys and looked down on by our insurance companies here in Australia. It astounds me that Victoria being the Capitol of Caravan manufacturers and suppliers do want to produce a sellable product but will not look after the clients. I feel that as soon as you purchase your van, trailer, motorhome you are left in the lurch. Why are all these Caravan producers not getting together and making their own Insurance company. This could benefit all and put the insurance companies less powerful and give a better equitable product to the consumers. I would welcome a Fair Dinkum Insurance Company that will not screw the customer, No hidden agendas and value for money after the sale. Oh Im a Dreamer,My Reality is a Myth.
Craig1 said
10:04 AM Jul 5, 2022
Maybe because they all know of their " reported often " deficiencies.
Caravan insurance is a Mine field aswell and I have come across insurance companies will Not mention name on forum but there are a few. The problem you have is when you are on the road more than 6 weeks to 8 weeks a year you are classified as No fixed abode (as we are) and dont want to insure you as storage and garaging of your caravan becomes a danger to insurance company. This means too much of a risk to insure even though Caravan Parks are classed as not Secure and that a caravan site is not a garage. So please tell me people I am a Grey Nomad a caravanner, Trailer Trash But I am in the twilight of my life and to waste 25 to 30 minutes talking to a company that will not insure you anyway, my time is precious what time I have left, we need a simple insurance solution. Presently have 23 foot New Age 2017 presently excessively paying through broker $1500+ and the depreciation goes down each year. So this is my Dilemma any answers would be appreciated.
-- Edited by robails1 on Tuesday 25th of January 2022 10:02:56 AM
Only tell them what you need to
I am looking forward to these same discusions this year.
The new vehicles are both due in May/July
New caravan. Cost $117,000.
New Prime mover. Cost $85,000
I will permently on the road, but a postal address in Victoria.
(Unless you are from centerlink, then i live in Victoria, and travel for extended periods on multiple occasions during the year).
Initial inquiries with some companies resulted in a flat refusal to insure a caran valued at over $80k.
Without the actual registration number the major players will not even entertain giving me an estimate.
Same story with a broker, just to hard for them.
I live with my son in Melbourne... at least that's what Vic Roads accept along with a number of other official organisations and that is what I tell my caravan insurers.
Having got the above sorted I then proceeded to take some very long holidays travelling around Australia and spending lots of time in various bush campsites as I commune with nature and write my novel.
I'm not a nomad and I don't live in my caravan and I'd like to see my insurers prove otherwise.
Indeed I am at my son's home as I write this - although for the first time in nine months.
Just sometimes... there is such a thing as too much truth....
Why, what does it say?
I'm with AAMI and each year I tell them that I'm a full time traveller and live permanently on the road.
Each year they ask are you still living fulltime in the van? so they know what I'm doing and its recorded (by me as well)
If your insurer doesnt like what you do then change insurer
If your insurer doesnt do what you want then get another one. Its your $
There is an old saying that using a broker will send you broker
Do your own research and ditch the broker because they only have a few companies that they deal with
Look, as hard as it is to swallow, there are a whole lot of people out there who are liars and cheats, and will try to pull the wool at every opportunity, so over the phone an Insurer has to be cautious about what they say and do....besides the plethora of rules and regulations they have to abide by.
The people you speak to on the phone when calling an "online" insurer are usually not qualified to give any advice at all, all they can do is read from a script and tell you how much it'll cost you. They can't tell you whether their policy is a good policy or an average one, or how hard it is to have your claim processed in a timely manner.
Premiums are always increasing, i have seen increases averaging at least 5% a year for many years. Though, when a vehicle ages it depreciates in "market value", yet each year the premiums are increasing for a lower exposure for the Insurer. What drives the increases? Ever increasing parts costs and labour costs mainly drive the premium increases.
As far as quotes go, I can run up numbers on the systems we use for pretty much anything, except caravans, they always need to be quoted by the underwriter.
Yes, please read the PDS, as boring as it may be, i read plenty of them in order to find the right policy wording and conditions to suit a particular risk or client. I don't need to find after a policy is issued that a future claim made is not covered.
I insure my van myself of course through my Brokerage and pay the premium nett of commission naturally...the $54k my van with accessories is insured for costs me around $700 a year inc taxes...not the cheapest I am sure, but fortunately I have seen how the insurer handles claims and am quite happy with them.
As far as i am aware there is no exclusion in my policy on a person residing in their van living for extended periods, or enjoying a nomadic life style either...there may be some conditions attached to a particular risk. There are not many options really when it comes to motor insurance, sometimes it is just a matter taking what is available.
Not mine :)
Cheers,
Peter
Never heard that before. You need to try someone else. ANYONE else.
Some years we travel 8 months per year, some we have travelled none (because we were overseas). Never had an issue travelling or parked up.
Cheers,
Peter
Unless you are very experienced in dealing with insurance companies the services of a broker is probably not a bad idea
Those sales people that you talk to on the phone when getting a quote would have no idea what's in the PDS.
QBE $753 for 2017 21ft van........3 months lay off not in use. No questions about living full/part time, just insure the van not lifestyle.
Cheers Bob
I have, many times - and I'm asking why you assert that it will be a surprise?
Too many people shop around on price alone, never bothering to read or know what they are actually paying for...just looking for the cheapest insurance policy they can find. If you are thinking your policy is expensive, read the PDS, and then read the PDS of the cheap policy and note the differences. How long it takes to process a claim, and the follow up if any issues is something you won't read in any PDS though.
What never ceases to amaze me too, is the number of people who will spend $100,000.00 plus buying the caravan or RV they always dreamed about, then go out and buy the cheapest insurance policy they can find to insure their $100,000.00 plus investment, to save themselves maybe a couple of hundred dollars...until of course they have a claim then it costs them a hell of a lot more.
And, when it comes to Brokers, a good idea indeed if you are not prepared to take a risk.. An Insurance Broker has to carry Professional Indemnity insurance, which is there to cover any costs should a client be left out of pocket due to a Broker's negligence...and that can even mean selling a poor quality policy that does not meet the criteria requested by the client...unless the Broker had advised the client of any shortfalls in cover and the client accepted the risk.
If a person is not happy they can go to another Broker. Keeping in mind there is only a finite number of Insurance companies that will insure RV's and caravans, there ain't dozens of them!
The cheap online Insurers won't deal with Brokers for many reasons, but i find that more often than not the quality Insurance companies Brokers' deal with are no dearer than the el-cheapo Direct Insurers, but usually offer better coverage.
These days a Broker has to also state what he earns from a placement, there is a commission available from the Insurer, and a Broker can also charge a fee. Often a Broker will "nett" the premium to save his client some money and then add a small fee in lieu of the commission. Using a Broker is not expensive, it is a cheap insurance as the Broker working for his client will "go in to bat" for his client and will often have a far better chance of having a claim paid than if a person tries to take on an Insurer individually.
With respect, a poster above suggested "ditching" the Broker and doing your own research. All I can say to that is knock yourself out, but don't whinge and moan when your claim is rejected due to the cheap policy you bought not covering what you "thought" it did...
Perhaps, Hitting the Road, you will provide a few examples from competing company's PDS' why a policy which is a "couple of hundred dollars" more is so much better than the cheaper policy? If you can back this up with real world examples rather than PDS' promises that would be really interesting.
I am, you see, unconvinced that dearer insurance companies (or any insurance companies come to that) really have their clients best interests at heart.
We are just exchanging thoughts and ideas here by the way, why should contributors be harangued into "provide a few examples from competing company's PDS' why a policy which is a "couple of hundred dollars" more.
I am not here to answer questions from the defence....
Actually my last post was addressed to "Hitting the Road"... unless you are one and the same?
If we unpack your above statement what it actually says is: "I have a detailed knowledge of this area which you ordinary people don't."
If you are going to make such wide and sweeping statements then do not be surprised when asked to justify them - so I ask you once again; why do you think we would be surprised?
I am also intrigued when people say tell the insurer as little as possible. The Insurance Contracts Act 1984 provides some obligations on the insurance buyer. It is called The Duty of Disclosure. You will find this duty explained in the front of your PDS and whenever you renew or request an alteration to you policy. In brief the insurance buyer has a duty to disclose to an insurer any material fact which a reasonable person feels the insurer needs to know to make a decision on whether to enter into a policy of insurance with you. For example pre existing hail damage. The Duty of Disclosure does not include matters an insurer knows or should know already. An example here could be that the caravan model that you want to insure does not come standard with ESC.
The insurer has certain remedies within the terms of the Insurance Contracts Act 1984 to deal with non disclosure. The insurer may reduce a claim by the amount of non-disclosure or avoid the policy from its inception if the non disclosure was fraudulent.
Do I have that right Hitting the Road/Insurance Broker.
This thread gave me a nudge to have a closer look at my PDS. My cover is with NRMA.
ConsumerMan notes that "the fine print" went out many years ago, with the wording now mandated to be easy to read. I find that a relative term. It probably took me an hour reading through the PDS. It still needs careful reading, and some things are easy to gloss over. But I did not see any terms that would have stopped me getting the policy. Some I didn't like, but would the next insurer be any different? They would have their own exclusions that may be better or worse.
Some exclusions I found a bit surprising:
There is no cover for loss due to "Atmospheric conditions or extreme temperature". These terms are not defined, so I thought it meant no hail or cyclone cover. But "Storm" is defined and that includes hail, violent wind, cyclone etc, and is covered with some limitations. I wonder what is therefore excluded by "Atmospheric conditions".
Under Legal Liability, I found that if the van gets detached while the vehicle is in use, there is no Legal Liability cover. Also, the opposite. There is no Legal Liabilty cover if the van is attached to the tow vehicle. Presumably any claims here would fall under tow vehicle liability. It's probably a stretch, but if you were camped and still remained hooked up, then technically there is no Legal Liability cover.
"We do not cover legal liability .....
I think the next improvement to make insurance easier for the consumer is to develop a standard base policy with fixed inclusions and exclusions that is identical across all insurers. Then they can add their own improvements or exclusions. That way a consumer only needs to look at the changes offered by that insurer. It would be nice, but I can't see it happening in my lifetime.
AWL, who insures your tow vehicle?, that should cover liability when towing. Or it did in the good old days.
Just check my AAMI policy for tug and it covers any damage to anyone else's gear caused by the caravan or trailer being towed.
CIL & Elders both cover legal liability for Caravan, they will only pay one claim though, no doubling up.
-- Edited by Craig1 on Thursday 27th of January 2022 02:41:11 PM
Yes, I had a read of the tow vehicle PDS (APIA) and can confirm that Third Party Property Damage caused by the van is covered by the tow vehicle policy. Third Party Personal injury is covered by the CTP of the tow vehicle.
The caravan policy covers Third PartyProperty AND Personal Injury. But as I mentioned earlier, there seems to be a bit of a hole if the van is still attached, but the tow vehicle is not in use. Maybe just a technicality.
I was the one suggesting people do their own research
I had a lot to do with brokers for several years and that comment (using a broker will just make you broker) was something I heard early on - directly from brokers
My understanding re brokers is that they DONT get quotes from every insurer but have several insurers who they deal with and get the best deal for their clients from the insurers they deal with.
Do you get quotes from every insurer every time? If so I apologise
Re doing your own research, I agree that most people dont read the PDS but I do.
I do my own research and I know exactly what is and isnt covered instead of relying on others to advise me
The policy isnt the cheapest but it covers exactly what I need.
I'm not time poor so I can spend as long as I want to read and digest the pds
I have never had a claim declined
As far as "I have a detailed knowledge of this area which you ordinary people don't.", once again this is just trying to get a bite, which I wont, and that is also all on that subject from me.
...whenever the subject of insurance is raised and people say something like you have to read the fine print.... I think the fine print in insurance policies stopped at the same time as the Insurance Contracts Act was enacted in Australia.
"Fine Print" is merely a common term used by many to describe something that a lot people would not be aware of or not bother reading...there is in reality no such thing anymore as "Fine Print"...
What the Insurance Contracts Act set out to do was to remove the potentially confusing wording from Insurance Contracts. Early contract wording often needed a Rhodes Scholar to define and translate so the average person could understand.
The you have the Insurance Code of Practice which brings in further obligations to both Brokers and Insurers.
Insurers were required to ensure any policy wording was never ambiguous and that the "average" person would be able to read and understand each Party's obligations. Exclusions are always made plain and obvious to anybody reading the Policy wording.
The insurer has certain remedies within the terms of the Insurance Contracts Act 1984 to deal with non disclosure. The insurer may reduce a claim by the amount of non-disclosure or avoid the policy from its inception if the non disclosure was fraudulent.
Do I have that right Hitting the Road/Insurance Broker.
Yep...correct. Fair enough too, should something come to light at the time a claim is made an Insurer can deny or reduce a claim accordingly.
A few here have mentioned Third party Property Damage cover...a caravan or any trailer for that matter does not have any Third Party Property Damage cover within the premium...why?...because it cannot go anywhere to hit anything without being attached to a vehicle. The vehicles carries the TPPD cover.
Your caravan policy also includes Public / Legal Liability. This insures the policy holder in the event they or the van were to cause injury or damage property somehow, Could well be while disconnected from the tow vehicle. If a van were to become unhitched and career off and hit some people or cars the Legal Liability included in the policy may come in to play depending on circumstances.
Another term you could use to describe Public Liability or Legal Liability is "negligence" insurance. If you are found by a Court to have been "negligent" and Legally Liable then the policy will be triggered.
I know there are a few people that don't bother insuring their van because they don't think it is worth it to do so. As mentioned above any damage caused by the van such as side swiping another vehicle or what ever, the damages are covered by the towing vehicle. But being uninsured leaves an exposure for any potential Legal Liability.
In answer to SoloMC, yes most Brokers will deal with a circle of Insurers as they know the policy wording and they know the Insurer pays claims. Insurers do change and update their policy wording reasonably regularly in fact, so it pays to be on top of these changes.
A Broker may have a handful of insurers he / she trusts and uses for domestic type policies, and another handful for commercial type policies. Not all Insurers insure all risks, most are niche insurers specialising in one area. Remembering if a Broker screws up and misses something he will be held financially liable for any losses incurred by his client.
To give an idea too, there are around 95 different Insurance Companies available for me to approach as a Broker... it is just not possible or practical to be across every single one of them. Fortunately of that number only maybe 6 or 7 will consider caravans and RV's...
Anyway, I am aware I must be boring other members by now.
And some (at least one) that are not able to be approached by a broker.
I put all of our insurance through a broker EXCEPT for the motorhome because the broker can not deal with Ken Tame.
Cheers,
Peter
In response my personal insurance dilemma, I am still stumped that caravanners, nomads,Travelling Trailer Trash ( which I Am) are still classed as Gypsys and looked down on by our insurance companies here in Australia. It astounds me that Victoria being the Capitol of Caravan manufacturers and suppliers do want to produce a sellable product but will not look after the clients. I feel that as soon as you purchase your van, trailer, motorhome you are left in the lurch. Why are all these Caravan producers not getting together and making their own Insurance company. This could benefit all and put the insurance companies less powerful and give a better equitable product to the consumers. I would welcome a Fair Dinkum Insurance Company that will not screw the customer, No hidden agendas and value for money after the sale. Oh Im a Dreamer,My Reality is a Myth.