New to caravaning... and looking to buy something that will take us off road and to do the "lap".
Of course, we are looking for as light as possible, dont want to tow anything too heavy... but I'd like to know, am I going to feel or know the difference between towing a 16ft caravan and an 18ft or even a 20ft?
Obviously we are new to the caravan scene and looking to head off in 2023.
I have a Ranger 3.2, which in theory can go to 3.5t, but realistically with my GCM and GVM etc, looking around the 2.6/2.8T.
Seems the extra feet can give us so much more, but dont know what the ramifications are of towing something thats 2 or 4 feet longer.
Looking forward to your advice!
thx
Possum3 said
05:57 PM Feb 3, 2022
Welcome to GN's Ozecho,
The main difference generally is 16ft single axle - 20ft tandem axle.
The lightest Caravans are normally the English style of van such as Adria - Sprite Alpine - Expanda types. These can get to 20ft and over (living space) around the 2 tonne mark.
This will depend on what you are comfortable towing. There is a big difference between towing a 16ft and 20ft van if you have never towed before. I think for what you are doing then an 18ft tandem will be long enough.
There is much more room in an 18ft than a 16ft, even though it is only 2ft extra. This means more room to fit a toilet and shower. Also in my opinion a tandem is far better to tow than a single axle, no need to be so critical where to place heavy items. Some others will not agree but I would never go back to a single axle van.
Barry
Dhutime said
06:03 PM Feb 3, 2022
Hi Ozecho , good to see that you are planning well ahead . I wont get into the weight debate, but for us comfort is paramount and an en-suite is a must in our 20 feet caravan. I realize that one can buy vans with en-suites 16 -18 ft vans but for us that would be too cramped. We have an off road van and wouldnt have anything else but, I would say that most vans nowadays should be able to Handel some gravel roads if you are careful. Also other than the extra weight towing a 16 or 20 ft caravan you wouldnt notice much difference once you are rolling along , providing your vehicle is set up accordingly. Enjoy the preparations.
-- Edited by Dhutime on Thursday 3rd of February 2022 06:07:38 PM
erad said
07:13 PM Feb 3, 2022
The major factor in towing a caravan is not the length, but rather the width of the thing. There is likely to be no width difference for a 16 ft or a 20 ft van. On the open road, you will notice very little difference between the two. It is only when you get to hilly country or in city traffic that you may feel the extra weight. The majority of Australian outback is relatively flat, and once you are up to speed, fuel consumptions should be nearly equal between the two van lengths. Obviously, 4 wheels and the extra weight of the axle will have an effect, but in reality, not that great. A significant proportion of the fuel consumption can be put down to the aerodynamics of the caravan - you are towing a dirty great big brick behind you.
A lot depends on what you want to do and where you want to go. If you intend to stay in caravan parks, quite often a 20 ft van will have trouble fitting into sites, especially in older caravan parks. But if you want a shower/toilet, you will be pushing to get a 16 ft van with these facilities. Remember the increase in weight will not be proportional when going from 16 to 20 feet in length. An extra axle will add between 120 to 150 kg to the weight, depending on what wheels are used. If you are happy to do without a shower/toilet, you will save probably another 150 kg in weight because you will not have a fresh water and grey water tank, and of course the black water for the toilet.
Again, depending on what you intend to do with the van and where you want to go, a 16 ft van has the option of a poptop arrangement. These are not as popular as they were a few years ago, but they have advantages when towing - less drag, And they also fit into garages where a full height van often will not.
Ozecho said
07:18 PM Feb 3, 2022
Thanks guys. Ive asked for the report. We are off to the Caravan show in Newcastle and as mentioned, the extra 2 feet seems to afford more convenience but wasnt sure if parking/driving was going to be significantly different.
I was hoping 2 ft would be roughly the same, it doesnt seem like there is a big weight difference.
I can imagine the tandem axle makes it a bit more balanced
Thx
Ozecho said
07:18 PM Feb 3, 2022
duplicate post deleted...
-- Edited by Ozecho on Thursday 3rd of February 2022 07:25:34 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:25 PM Feb 3, 2022
Off road, the shorter and narrower the better. And a single axle is far superior in the bush.
Ensure that the wheels and tyres on the van are identical to those on the tug which should also be as high a profile as possible. Low profile tyres will give you grief.
Cheers,
Peter
Ozecho said
07:27 PM Feb 3, 2022
thanks Peter. Will manufacturers alter the caravan wheels to match the Ranger? or is it just luck of the draw?
thx
Derek Barnes said
08:10 PM Feb 3, 2022
We love our 13 foot Golf Savannah Maxxi 390 off-road van. Single axle, off-road hitch, under 2 tonnes, separate shower room and toilet room, a queen size fold out bed and a king single bed from the converted dining table. Its only as wide as the car (Patrol Y62) and is a pop top so is relatively short. Weve taken it off road in the Flinders, to Lake Mungo, and to Riversleigh fossil beds. You dont need to go up to 16 foot to get all the conveniences.
-- Edited by Derek Barnes on Thursday 3rd of February 2022 08:13:07 PM
Bicyclecamper said
10:37 PM Feb 3, 2022
Mine was an offroad 16 foot van, although an older model, it didn't have an shower or toilet, and we worked around it. We did definitely go out bush and I was very glad that it only weighed 1600kg, for fuel use reasons and easier to tow in4wd areas as well. You can get shower/toilet offroad models from 11 ft long, and lightweight too, but if you went to the Chinese versions, you are looking at a heavy weighted van. It would be better to look into buying an australian built van custom made, to get both what you want in size and weight and capabilities. Me personally if I was looking for a new van, it would be Aussie made 15 ft or less with a small S and T on board as light as I could posspbly get it built. As you are looking at substantial cost for an offroad van, I would consider Aussie built and designed for offroad, not an imported van.
Bicyclecamper said
10:38 PM Feb 3, 2022
Mine was an offroad 16 foot van, although an older model, it didn't have an shower or toilet, and we worked around it. We did definitely go out bush and I was very glad that it only weighed 1600kg fully loaded, for fuel use reasons and easier to tow in 4wd areas as well. You can get shower/toilet offroad models from 11 ft long, and lightweight too, but if you went to the Chinese versions, you are looking at a heavy weighted van. It would be better to look into buying an australian built van custom made, to get both what you want in size and weight and capabilities. Me personally if I was looking for a new van, it would be Aussie made 15 ft or less with a small S and T on board as light as I could possibly get it built. As you are looking at substantial cost for an offroad van, I would consider Aussie built and designed for offroad, not an imported van.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 3rd of February 2022 10:43:04 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:15 PM Feb 3, 2022
G'day & welcome to the forum Ozecho,
You have to work out where you'll go & what you want to see - whether you will be going mainly on the bitumen or some dirt, gravel roads, perhaps some rougher tracks. Do you want to use some caravan parks or stay independent?
We had a Jayco Eagle Outback camper - about 12' closed up, 21' opened up. We did one trip over three months in it - I recall a fellow traveller saying she couldn't live in anything under 21', with no effort in setting up. It saw travel on all sorts of roads both smooth & very rough. I hope Mr Ryan of Jayco wasn't watching! I did have an extra leaf inserted into the springs to give more clearance on the bump stops. Driving to conditions & perhaps reducing tyre pressures is essential.
Then we went to our current van - nearly 18' long but again single axle. It has three "luxury" items - a larger fridge, a combined shower & toilet & an air conditioner. I don't use a WDH, don't have any sway issues & I don't intend going any larger. On our three "beds on wheels", I've used poly- block hitches. The beauty of the pop top van over the camper is that in really rough weather, we can still live inside with the lid down.
There are pros & cons of how many axles is ideal. There are some 17' dual axle vans & quite a few single. Trailmaster make both (their Kimberly from memory, is in both configurations). I know of one 18' single axle van but most are duals. Iwould like to be able to carry another 50kg but can't!
And like most members here, we try to keep legal as far as weight goes - one cheeky person said I need a van made from "Unobtainium"!
See the special section in the Techies' section on weights - you'll find what you can & can't carry.
All the best in your search - ask lots of people lots of questions.
Are We Lost said
12:01 AM Feb 4, 2022
As Warren was asking, what sort of travel are you referring to when you say Off Road? Presumably there will be two of you.
If you want to go into isolated bush camps that may have narrow tracks with tight curves and low overhanging branches, the smaller and lighter the van the better. If you want to travel long distances on corrugated roads, then you really need to focus on construction, as the average van will shake to bits.
I too have a Ford Ranger 3.2L and have a 21 footer that weighs a little more than what you propose. I agree with others that on the open road you will have no trouble towing 2.6/2.8T. But taking it really offroad, or onto sand is not viable. Everything is a compromise and the bigger and heavier it gets, the more it is constrained to regular roads. Size for parking is occasionally an issue with availability for larger vans, but not enough of a concern to advise against it on that basis.
Also, how confident are you with towing? Being new to towing and lugging a big beast is not an ideal combination. Once you get a few thousand kilometers done, you will realise how much you didn't know. Maybe you should buy a smaller van used, and use it for short trips this year with the idea of selling it and buying what you want. This will help you understand what you really want before shelling out big money on a new one, and give you that towing experience on something smaller. Small steps.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 4th of February 2022 12:07:03 AM
Ozecho said
01:14 AM Feb 4, 2022
Thanks everyone for the quick replies.
The plan is to head to WA (from Sydney) and tour the coast and top end. Lots of dirt tracks. Just me and the SWMBO, along with a convoy of 2 or 3 other couples.
For beach stuff, we would leave the van behind and take the Ranger. Weve done Fraser, Simpson and lots of sand driving previously.
Trying to stay with 16ft, but want a lot! Preferably seperate T and S, upright fridge, cooking and Queen N/S bed. Found a few candidates, but they invariably push you to longer vans 169 or 179. Hence my original post. 20ft just seems too big.
Poptop or not? Is the drag significantly different? Seems like its just 30cm difference.
We will do plenty of short trips between now and then gain experience what works what doesnt.
Thx again
Mike Harding said
07:19 AM Feb 4, 2022
It's a bit different for me because I live in my van but I bought a larger van on the premises that I spend a lot more time living in the van than I do towing it so decided i'll take a small hit on towing convenience for the advantage of the larger living space; after three years I have no regrets over that decision.
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:45 AM Feb 4, 2022
We are very happy with our Jayco 17' poptop caravan. It was the smallest we could buy with an en suite with separate toilet. We traveled about 10,000 K last year and loved it. We found out it is a perfect size for just the two of us.
We CAN use the van with the roof down but I'm 190cm so I have to stoop. My wife comfortably wanders around without bumping her head.
My advise is don't go any bigger than you have to unless you are camped in one spot for a very long time.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Friday 4th of February 2022 10:46:36 AM
Phlipper said
01:06 PM Feb 4, 2022
Are you good at reversing with a van on the back ?....16ft is easier to back into tight spots than a 20 footer....18 ft is a happy medium I think
SoloMC said
01:47 PM Feb 4, 2022
The smaller the van the lighter it will be.
I'm full timer and I often wish I had a bigger van than the 20 6 one I have now.
I do a lot of off road travel and at other times I wish is had a much smaller van
My van 20 years ago had no toilet/shr and I now have one. I could never live without these facilities again
Make up a list of pros/cons and then needed/wanted/like to have
everyone has different requirements and everyone will give you their opinion. only you can make the decision thats right for you
Craig1 said
07:48 PM Feb 4, 2022
we went from 16ft Jayco Pop top to 18'6" Paramount pop top dual axle, but did not realize that " the boot " was an extra 20" on top of the 18'6". Did not matter as had enough storage room anyway, but if things are tight?, also about 150mm higher, inc 2" riser on chassis, so had to raise the roof. Not an off road model either.
HandyWalter said
10:02 AM Feb 5, 2022
I have a 16' New Age MR Deluxe. Friend has a 21' Leader. We have all the fittings he has EXCEPT smaller fridge, smaller table seating area. food prep area. We also have a few things he does not have. The thing you need to weigh up is do you LIVE IN your van or do you/can you spend more time outside your van. I cook outside as its easier to clean up my slide out BBQ. We sit outside most of the time as we try and chase the warm weather and only use the inside to eat if its cold. If I had my way again, I wish I could have the same layout but with an extra 12" in the middle so if it is cold sitting at the table would have a little more space. For me a small van is far easier to tow and park. Also far better fuel economy. The towing weight difference is about 300kgs, and the fuel economy differences (we have the same vehicles) is 3ltrs per 100 kms. Our vans have very similar layout, bed one end ensuite the other. With 4 adults sitting inside the larger van is far more comfortable. When we go away however we hardly ever sat inside.
dieseltojo said
04:21 PM Feb 7, 2022
Yep Our van is 17foot 6'' and I put my own Wc and shower into it. These days that sized van comes with all that. With just the wive and I, it is perfect. Large folks might like a longer van with the obligatory end shower toilet ensuite.
You gotta look to get the feel and decide.... I have towed all my working life and a newby will get used to it in time....But it does take some time.
Hi All,
New to caravaning... and looking to buy something that will take us off road and to do the "lap".
Of course, we are looking for as light as possible, dont want to tow anything too heavy... but I'd like to know, am I going to feel or know the difference between towing a 16ft caravan and an 18ft or even a 20ft?
Obviously we are new to the caravan scene and looking to head off in 2023.
I have a Ranger 3.2, which in theory can go to 3.5t, but realistically with my GCM and GVM etc, looking around the 2.6/2.8T.
Seems the extra feet can give us so much more, but dont know what the ramifications are of towing something thats 2 or 4 feet longer.
Looking forward to your advice!
thx
The main difference generally is 16ft single axle - 20ft tandem axle.
The lightest Caravans are normally the English style of van such as Adria - Sprite Alpine - Expanda types. These can get to 20ft and over (living space) around the 2 tonne mark.
See thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t68200672/selecting-your-ideal-caravan/ that was put on a couple of days ago it is a selection guide to buying caravans - it was compiled by Colin Young Chief Eng at Caravan Council of Australia.
There is much more room in an 18ft than a 16ft, even though it is only 2ft extra. This means more room to fit a toilet and shower. Also in my opinion a tandem is far better to tow than a single axle, no need to be so critical where to place heavy items. Some others will not agree but I would never go back to a single axle van.
Barry
Hi Ozecho , good to see that you are planning well ahead . I wont get into the weight debate, but for us comfort is paramount and an en-suite is a must in our 20 feet caravan. I realize that one can buy vans with en-suites 16 -18 ft vans but for us that would be too cramped. We have an off road van and wouldnt have anything else but, I would say that most vans nowadays should be able to Handel some gravel roads if you are careful. Also other than the extra weight towing a 16 or 20 ft caravan you wouldnt notice much difference once you are rolling along , providing your vehicle is set up accordingly.
Enjoy the preparations.
-- Edited by Dhutime on Thursday 3rd of February 2022 06:07:38 PM
A lot depends on what you want to do and where you want to go. If you intend to stay in caravan parks, quite often a 20 ft van will have trouble fitting into sites, especially in older caravan parks. But if you want a shower/toilet, you will be pushing to get a 16 ft van with these facilities. Remember the increase in weight will not be proportional when going from 16 to 20 feet in length. An extra axle will add between 120 to 150 kg to the weight, depending on what wheels are used. If you are happy to do without a shower/toilet, you will save probably another 150 kg in weight because you will not have a fresh water and grey water tank, and of course the black water for the toilet.
Again, depending on what you intend to do with the van and where you want to go, a 16 ft van has the option of a poptop arrangement. These are not as popular as they were a few years ago, but they have advantages when towing - less drag, And they also fit into garages where a full height van often will not.
duplicate post deleted...
-- Edited by Ozecho on Thursday 3rd of February 2022 07:25:34 PM
Ensure that the wheels and tyres on the van are identical to those on the tug which should also be as high a profile as possible. Low profile tyres will give you grief.
Cheers,
Peter
thanks Peter. Will manufacturers alter the caravan wheels to match the Ranger? or is it just luck of the draw?
thx
We love our 13 foot Golf Savannah Maxxi 390 off-road van. Single axle, off-road hitch, under 2 tonnes, separate shower room and toilet room, a queen size fold out bed and a king single bed from the converted dining table. Its only as wide as the car (Patrol Y62) and is a pop top so is relatively short. Weve taken it off road in the Flinders, to Lake Mungo, and to Riversleigh fossil beds. You dont need to go up to 16 foot to get all the conveniences.
-- Edited by Derek Barnes on Thursday 3rd of February 2022 08:13:07 PM
Mine was an offroad 16 foot van, although an older model, it didn't have an shower or toilet, and we worked around it. We did definitely go out bush and I was very glad that it only weighed 1600kg fully loaded, for fuel use reasons and easier to tow in 4wd areas as well. You can get shower/toilet offroad models from 11 ft long, and lightweight too, but if you went to the Chinese versions, you are looking at a heavy weighted van. It would be better to look into buying an australian built van custom made, to get both what you want in size and weight and capabilities. Me personally if I was looking for a new van, it would be Aussie made 15 ft or less with a small S and T on board as light as I could possibly get it built. As you are looking at substantial cost for an offroad van, I would consider Aussie built and designed for offroad, not an imported van.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 3rd of February 2022 10:43:04 PM
You have to work out where you'll go & what you want to see - whether you will be going mainly on the bitumen or some dirt, gravel roads, perhaps some rougher tracks. Do you want to use some caravan parks or stay independent?
We had a Jayco Eagle Outback camper - about 12' closed up, 21' opened up. We did one trip over three months in it - I recall a fellow traveller saying she couldn't live in anything under 21', with no effort in setting up. It saw travel on all sorts of roads both smooth & very rough. I hope Mr Ryan of Jayco wasn't watching! I did have an extra leaf inserted into the springs to give more clearance on the bump stops. Driving to conditions & perhaps reducing tyre pressures is essential.
Then we went to our current van - nearly 18' long but again single axle. It has three "luxury" items - a larger fridge, a combined shower & toilet & an air conditioner. I don't use a WDH, don't have any sway issues & I don't intend going any larger. On our three "beds on wheels", I've used poly- block hitches. The beauty of the pop top van over the camper is that in really rough weather, we can still live inside with the lid down.
There are pros & cons of how many axles is ideal. There are some 17' dual axle vans & quite a few single. Trailmaster make both (their Kimberly from memory, is in both configurations). I know of one 18' single axle van but most are duals. Iwould like to be able to carry another 50kg but can't!
And like most members here, we try to keep legal as far as weight goes - one cheeky person said I need a van made from "Unobtainium"!
See the special section in the Techies' section on weights - you'll find what you can & can't carry.
All the best in your search - ask lots of people lots of questions.
As Warren was asking, what sort of travel are you referring to when you say Off Road? Presumably there will be two of you.
If you want to go into isolated bush camps that may have narrow tracks with tight curves and low overhanging branches, the smaller and lighter the van the better. If you want to travel long distances on corrugated roads, then you really need to focus on construction, as the average van will shake to bits.
I too have a Ford Ranger 3.2L and have a 21 footer that weighs a little more than what you propose. I agree with others that on the open road you will have no trouble towing 2.6/2.8T. But taking it really offroad, or onto sand is not viable. Everything is a compromise and the bigger and heavier it gets, the more it is constrained to regular roads. Size for parking is occasionally an issue with availability for larger vans, but not enough of a concern to advise against it on that basis.
Also, how confident are you with towing? Being new to towing and lugging a big beast is not an ideal combination. Once you get a few thousand kilometers done, you will realise how much you didn't know. Maybe you should buy a smaller van used, and use it for short trips this year with the idea of selling it and buying what you want. This will help you understand what you really want before shelling out big money on a new one, and give you that towing experience on something smaller. Small steps.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 4th of February 2022 12:07:03 AM
It's a bit different for me because I live in my van but I bought a larger van on the premises that I spend a lot more time living in the van than I do towing it so decided i'll take a small hit on towing convenience for the advantage of the larger living space; after three years I have no regrets over that decision.
We are very happy with our Jayco 17' poptop caravan. It was the smallest we could buy with an en suite with separate toilet. We traveled about 10,000 K last year and loved it. We found out it is a perfect size for just the two of us.
We CAN use the van with the roof down but I'm 190cm so I have to stoop. My wife comfortably wanders around without bumping her head.
My advise is don't go any bigger than you have to unless you are camped in one spot for a very long time.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Friday 4th of February 2022 10:46:36 AM
Yep Our van is 17foot 6'' and I put my own Wc and shower into it. These days that sized van comes with all that. With just the wive and I, it is perfect. Large folks might like a longer van with the obligatory end shower toilet ensuite.
You gotta look to get the feel and decide....
I have towed all my working life and a newby will get used to it in time....But it does take some time.