How many people out there, are going to be able to buy an electric car at approx $70k, also 5 years down the track a new battery at $8k? I know I will not have the money to do, it, even if my investments come in. And it is quite feasible that an electric car's electric motors, are likely to need replacing after 10 years as well. Will the average Aussie, have $70k, every 10 years to buy an new electric car? Not bloody likely.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 11:34:37 AM
Wanda said
12:55 PM Feb 15, 2022
I may be wrong, but, I think you will get more like 10yrs plus out of the battey, with a little luck.
We had a 2007 prius which we sold in 2019, so 12yr old battey, still going strong.
I can't see how the latest batteries would get less than this!
I think you will find the prices of these vehicles are "about" to start dropping, especially as more makes and models are coming out, just give it some time.
Maybe a change of government will see some positive changes as well
Ian
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:56 PM Feb 15, 2022
For the USA...
For electric vehicles, the federal government mandates that manufacturers issue the battery warranty at a minimum of eight years/80,000 miles. In California, that mandate is 10 years/150,000 miles. 1 A few vehicles even offer unlimited-mile coverage on their batteries.
That is longer than the warranty on your ICE engine, and it will be cheaper to replace.
Once volumes get higher, EV cars will be cheaper to make and buy than ICE cars, running costs will be a VERY much lower and there will be almost no maintenence required.
What is not to like?
It amases me that there are so meny people trying to find the negatives. The fact it, there are not many.
Cheers,
Peter
elliemike said
03:39 PM Feb 15, 2022
I suppose the conversations about the transition from Sailing ships to Steamships, was simmilar.
There is no Coal in other parts of the World.
They break down a lot.
The boilers Blow up.
They run out of coal and have to still use sails.
How will you get spare parts up the Amazon.
Simmilar
The Automobile was a danger on the roads as they caused havoc and terrified horses. Make a man walk in front with a Red Flag to warn Carters and Coachmen.
But I still love sailing ships and have been a marine engineer. How ships have changed since I was last at sea. Also I am hoping to own a EV car in the near future.
It's Progress.
-- Edited by elliemike on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 09:05:24 PM
Phlipper said
04:03 PM Feb 15, 2022
Yes expensive for a decent sized EV at present. However, there does seem to be a lot of ICE vehicles on the road now that are into the $70,000 +++ price bracket, European cars and 4WDs dont come cheap.. Prices will drop as more manufacturers build them and competition will drive the prices down.
Something that will tow a caravan/boat may be price prohibitive for a while to come, although as things are, the price of a new Land Cruiser is eye watering at present, and way out of price range for most folk. I dont think there will be much choice in about 10 yrs time, and our Diesel cars may be hard to sell in 10 yrs, possibly worth nothing ?.
Concerning EV running costs overall.....you will save a lot on motor and transmission servicing, escalating fuel prices, filters, timing belts, exhaust replacements, even brake pads etc. A mate of mine just replaced his Prius battery pack after 15yrs, cost him about $1,600.00
Personally I'm rather thinking I'll hang onto my new MU-X for 10 yrs if possible, and by that time I probably wont be caravaning anymore anyway, so an EV would likely be my choice to see me through into my grave....or at least until I become a Barfly
Aus-Kiwi said
07:58 PM Feb 15, 2022
Good luck towing with EV ! I have a suspicion vehicle manufacturers are holding prices higher to sell piston engines
Whenarewethere said
08:07 PM Feb 15, 2022
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Good luck towing with EV ! I have a suspicion vehicle manufacturers are holding prices higher to sell piston engines
Towing with EV isn't an issue.
BHP has ordered battery locomotives to tow 270 car 38,000 tonne iron ore sets.
Rio Tinto & Fortescue Metals Group likewise.
Aus-Kiwi said
08:26 PM Feb 15, 2022
Last I checked EV is not a locomotive !
Whenarewethere said
09:04 PM Feb 15, 2022
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle
'EVs include, but are not limited to, road and rail vehicles, surface and underwater vessels, electric aircraft and electric spacecraft.'
landy said
10:23 PM Feb 15, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Good luck towing with EV ! I have a suspicion vehicle manufacturers are holding prices higher to sell piston engines
Towing with EV isn't an issue.
BHP has ordered battery locomotives to tow 270 car 38,000 tonne iron ore sets.
Rio Tinto & Fortescue Metals Group likewise.
Towing a camper trailer across the Simpson may be.
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:31 PM Feb 15, 2022
Long range vehicles (including RVs and locomotives, ships and planes) will be able to use hydrogen which is converted to electricity as it is required. www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-02/australian-first-hydrogen-bus-emerald-coaches-regional-qld/100586162
This company in Queensland will use solar electricity to make their own hydrogen to fuel their bus fleet. They will take 10 minutes to refuel and have a range of 800km (which is enough to cross the Simpson).
Cheers,
Peter
86GTS said
04:30 AM Feb 16, 2022
Not an issue worth worrying about really, by the time it happens we'll all be either in a nursing home or six feet underground. My traveling days will be over some time in the next decade.
Enjoy your piston engines now & in the near future.
EV's are the future, no doubt about it.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Wednesday 16th of February 2022 04:38:14 AM
Buzz Lightbulb said
07:07 AM Feb 16, 2022
Wanda wrote:
I may be wrong, but, I think you will get more like 10yrs plus out of the battey, with a little luck. We had a 2007 prius which we sold in 2019, so 12yr old battey, still going strong. I can't see how the latest batteries would get less than this! I think you will find the prices of these vehicles are "about" to start dropping, especially as more makes and models are coming out, just give it some time. Maybe a change of government will see some positive changes as well Ian
We need some decent Federal Government policies on emissions before the overseas manufacturers see Australia as a market to sell EVs rather than dump ICE vehicles here. Until then, we won't have much of a choice and hence $70k could be the expected cost.
Wanda said
08:48 AM Feb 16, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Wanda wrote:
I may be wrong, but, I think you will get more like 10yrs plus out of the battey, with a little luck. We had a 2007 prius which we sold in 2019, so 12yr old battey, still going strong. I can't see how the latest batteries would get less than this! I think you will find the prices of these vehicles are "about" to start dropping, especially as more makes and models are coming out, just give it some time. Maybe a change of government will see some positive changes as well Ian
We need some decent Federal Government policies on emissions before the overseas manufacturers see Australia as a market to sell EVs rather than dump ICE vehicles here. Until then, we won't have much of a choice and hence $70k could be the expected cost.
Absobloodylutely, but won't get it from this mob
Ian
HandyWalter said
09:25 AM Feb 17, 2022
I accept that EV will take off eventually and the ICE will slowly die off. But the government raises huge taxes from fuel excise. The electricity grid will have to expand rapidly to accommodate. I just wonder how the Gov will raise the lost revenue? Tax on distance traveled as in Vic? Increases in electricity tariffs? I am sure any tax on a Green car will raise issues with the left leaning in politics. ATM in Vic not enough people have EV's but when they do I am sure they will be very angry being charged each year on distances travelled and being charged on early basis as it is now I think. At least with fuel taxes we just "pay as we go" so we really have no idea how much we are being taxed in a year
Wanda said
09:54 AM Feb 17, 2022
HandyWalter wrote:
I accept that EV will take off eventually and the ICE will slowly die off. But the government raises huge taxes from fuel excise. The electricity grid will have to expand rapidly to accommodate. I just wonder how the Gov will raise the lost revenue? Tax on distance traveled as in Vic? Increases in electricity tariffs? I am sure any tax on a Green car will raise issues with the left leaning in politics. ATM in Vic not enough people have EV's but when they do I am sure they will be very angry being charged each year on distances travelled and being charged on early basis as it is now I think. At least with fuel taxes we just "pay as we go" so we really have no idea how much we are being taxed in a year
Yep, have to agree, the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Thats us, in some form of ev tax or tax on kms or who knows what!!
Not for the option of paying each year for the distance travelled, especially in Autralia, that could and would impact on tourism for sure
I don't necessarily think its going to save us money, the owners of evs, but just the knowledge that we are doing something for the enviroment!.
Also some gratification that we are not giving money to the hungry oil companies/countries.
Ian
deverall11 said
06:08 PM Feb 17, 2022
Need to lobby the village idiot and his mates to make these cars more affordable. Cash incentives similar
to some countries in Europe.
elliemike said
08:41 PM Feb 17, 2022
deverall11 wrote:
Need to lobby the village idiot and his mates to make these cars more affordable. Cash incentives similar to some countries in Europe.
I accept that EV will take off eventually and the ICE will slowly die off. But the government raises huge taxes from fuel excise. The electricity grid will have to expand rapidly to accommodate. I just wonder how the Gov will raise the lost revenue? Tax on distance traveled as in Vic? Increases in electricity tariffs? I am sure any tax on a Green car will raise issues with the left leaning in politics. ATM in Vic not enough people have EV's but when they do I am sure they will be very angry being charged each year on distances travelled and being charged on early basis as it is now I think. At least with fuel taxes we just "pay as we go" so we really have no idea how much we are being taxed in a year
Yep, have to agree, the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Thats us, in some form of ev tax or tax on kms or who knows what!!
Not for the option of paying each year for the distance travelled, especially in Autralia, that could and would impact on tourism for sure
I don't necessarily think its going to save us money, the owners of evs, but just the knowledge that we are doing something for the enviroment!.
Also some gratification that we are not giving money to the hungry oil companies/countries.
Ian
The fuel tax is a federal tax and some states are now imposing EV taxes. The states and territories are not missing out on anything but they are using the EVs as an excuse to get more money from taxes. That is really disgusting
I don't know where the so called missing revenue of the federal fuel tax would come from. I wouldn't lower myself to become a politician. I'm adverse to lying. However, if the government stopped subsiding the fossil fuel industries then there'd be billions of dollars that could be spent on subsiding climate change initiatives.
There is no indication that the fuel tax revenue is spent on road infrastructure so taking the subsidies away from the fossil fuel industries may easily replace the fuel tax. Maybe there is no issue.
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:39 AM Feb 18, 2022
elliemike wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
Need to lobby the village idiot and his mates to make these cars more affordable. Cash incentives similar to some countries in Europe.
Yes. This is what I was referring to. The federal government needs to have decent emissions policies before the EV manufacturers will even consider selling decently priced vehicles in Australia.
deverall11 said
10:20 AM Feb 19, 2022
We are currently paying more at the pump because of the RUssian/Ukraine conflict. At least that's what we are told.
If we all had EVs, that would not be the case. Yes there probably would be something else but that's a discussion for another day.
Larry
peter67 said
12:11 PM Feb 19, 2022
Given it produces 50% more emissions to produce an EV relative to ICE cars you would do more good driving your mums toyota camry for the next twenty years.
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:33 PM Feb 19, 2022
peter67 wrote:
Given it produces 50% more emissions to produce an EV relative to ICE cars you would do more good driving your mums toyota camry for the next twenty years.
Who told you that crap?
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
03:21 PM Feb 19, 2022
Not to forget that to produce & transport a litre of petrol requires about 2kWh of energy before the engine uses it.
On average Australians drive 13,000km per year.
I'll use round numbers, 10L/100km, that's 2,600kWh just to make the petrol & get it to your fuel tank.
Then 8.9kWh per litre going up in smoke. That's 11,570kWh per year simply burning stuff. So 14,170kWh per year.
Plus 25,000kWh to make a petrol car.
So after driving your new petrol car 13,000km that's 39,100kWh.
There maybe more embedded energy in an EV but it is infinitely more recyclable.
deverall11 said
05:52 PM Feb 19, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
........
There maybe more embedded energy in an EV but it is infinitely more recyclable.
Well said. If only more people realised this is the future like it or not. The quicker we embrace the better for all.
Bet they all against the ICE when it was about to replace the steam engine. Look where we are now.
peter67 said
06:42 PM Feb 19, 2022
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
peter67 wrote:
Given it produces 50% more emissions to produce an EV relative to ICE cars you would do more good driving your mums toyota camry for the next twenty years.
Who told you that crap?
Cheers,
Peter
John Cadogan did a recent vid on it. Now, you can scoff at John if you like, some do, but watch it and then I dare you to come back on here and argue his figures and reasoning. Look forward to it.
Whenarewethere said
06:50 PM Feb 19, 2022
JC, really!
Phlipper said
07:01 PM Feb 19, 2022
Personally.....I'm just disappointed we are not motoring around like the Jetsons yet...no roads to maintain
How many people out there, are going to be able to buy an electric car at approx $70k, also 5 years down the track a new battery at $8k? I know I will not have the money to do, it, even if my investments come in. And it is quite feasible that an electric car's electric motors, are likely to need replacing after 10 years as well. Will the average Aussie, have $70k, every 10 years to buy an new electric car? Not bloody likely.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 11:34:37 AM
We had a 2007 prius which we sold in 2019, so 12yr old battey, still going strong.
I can't see how the latest batteries would get less than this!
I think you will find the prices of these vehicles are "about" to start dropping, especially as more makes and models are coming out, just give it some time.
Maybe a change of government will see some positive changes as well
Ian
For the USA...
That is longer than the warranty on your ICE engine, and it will be cheaper to replace.
Once volumes get higher, EV cars will be cheaper to make and buy than ICE cars, running costs will be a VERY much lower and there will be almost no maintenence required.
What is not to like?
It amases me that there are so meny people trying to find the negatives. The fact it, there are not many.
Cheers,
Peter
I suppose the conversations about the transition from Sailing ships to Steamships, was simmilar.
There is no Coal in other parts of the World.
They break down a lot.
The boilers Blow up.
They run out of coal and have to still use sails.
How will you get spare parts up the Amazon.
Simmilar
The Automobile was a danger on the roads as they caused havoc and terrified horses. Make a man walk in front with a Red Flag to warn Carters and Coachmen.
But I still love sailing ships and have been a marine engineer. How ships have changed since I was last at sea. Also I am hoping to own a EV car in the near future.
It's Progress.
-- Edited by elliemike on Tuesday 15th of February 2022 09:05:24 PM
Something that will tow a caravan/boat may be price prohibitive for a while to come, although as things are, the price of a new Land Cruiser is eye watering at present, and way out of price range for most folk. I dont think there will be much choice in about 10 yrs time, and our Diesel cars may be hard to sell in 10 yrs, possibly worth nothing ?.
Concerning EV running costs overall.....you will save a lot on motor and transmission servicing, escalating fuel prices, filters, timing belts, exhaust replacements, even brake pads etc. A mate of mine just replaced his Prius battery pack after 15yrs, cost him about $1,600.00
Personally I'm rather thinking I'll hang onto my new MU-X for 10 yrs if possible, and by that time I probably wont be caravaning anymore anyway, so an EV would likely be my choice to see me through into my grave....or at least until I become a Barfly
Towing with EV isn't an issue.
BHP has ordered battery locomotives to tow 270 car 38,000 tonne iron ore sets.
Rio Tinto & Fortescue Metals Group likewise.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle
'EVs include, but are not limited to, road and rail vehicles, surface and underwater vessels, electric aircraft and electric spacecraft.'
Towing a camper trailer across the Simpson may be.
www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-02/australian-first-hydrogen-bus-emerald-coaches-regional-qld/100586162
This company in Queensland will use solar electricity to make their own hydrogen to fuel their bus fleet. They will take 10 minutes to refuel and have a range of 800km (which is enough to cross the Simpson).
Cheers,
Peter
Not an issue worth worrying about really, by the time it happens we'll all be either in a nursing home or six feet underground. My traveling days will be over some time in the next decade.
Enjoy your piston engines now & in the near future.
EV's are the future, no doubt about it.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Wednesday 16th of February 2022 04:38:14 AM
We need some decent Federal Government policies on emissions before the overseas manufacturers see Australia as a market to sell EVs rather than dump ICE vehicles here. Until then, we won't have much of a choice and hence $70k could be the expected cost.
Absobloodylutely, but won't get it from this mob
Ian
Yep, have to agree, the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Thats us, in some form of ev tax or tax on kms or who knows what!!
Not for the option of paying each year for the distance travelled, especially in Autralia, that could and would impact on tourism for sure
I don't necessarily think its going to save us money, the owners of evs, but just the knowledge that we are doing something for the enviroment!.
Also some gratification that we are not giving money to the hungry oil companies/countries.
Ian
to some countries in Europe.
Car makers say government policy blocks supply
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-20/australians-want-to-buy-electric-cars-what-is-stopping-us/100071550
The fuel tax is a federal tax and some states are now imposing EV taxes. The states and territories are not missing out on anything but they are using the EVs as an excuse to get more money from taxes. That is really disgusting
I don't know where the so called missing revenue of the federal fuel tax would come from. I wouldn't lower myself to become a politician. I'm adverse to lying. However, if the government stopped subsiding the fossil fuel industries then there'd be billions of dollars that could be spent on subsiding climate change initiatives.
There is no indication that the fuel tax revenue is spent on road infrastructure so taking the subsidies away from the fossil fuel industries may easily replace the fuel tax. Maybe there is no issue.
Yes. This is what I was referring to. The federal government needs to have decent emissions policies before the EV manufacturers will even consider selling decently priced vehicles in Australia.
If we all had EVs, that would not be the case. Yes there probably would be something else but that's a discussion for another day.
Larry
Who told you that crap?
Cheers,
Peter
Not to forget that to produce & transport a litre of petrol requires about 2kWh of energy before the engine uses it.
On average Australians drive 13,000km per year.
I'll use round numbers, 10L/100km, that's 2,600kWh just to make the petrol & get it to your fuel tank.
Then 8.9kWh per litre going up in smoke. That's 11,570kWh per year simply burning stuff. So 14,170kWh per year.
Plus 25,000kWh to make a petrol car.
So after driving your new petrol car 13,000km that's 39,100kWh.
There maybe more embedded energy in an EV but it is infinitely more recyclable.
Well said. If only more people realised this is the future like it or not. The quicker we embrace the better for all.
Bet they all against the ICE when it was about to replace the steam engine. Look where we are now.
John Cadogan did a recent vid on it. Now, you can scoff at John if you like, some do, but watch it and then I dare you to come back on here and argue his figures and reasoning. Look forward to it.
JC, really!
Personally.....I'm just disappointed we are not motoring around like the Jetsons yet...no roads to maintain
Wow. That settles it then?
The man was born in 1930. That makes him 91 or 92? Can he even drive?
Anything more credible?
Cheers,
Peter
I've seen a number of flying carpet skateboards. Now if only they could increase the height a touch more.