"Don't go there", "Just get your fuel & go" "It's not safe" "Barbed wire around the CP" "Lock up everything" "Don't leave your van unattended"
We've all heard these sort of things - almost inevitably they relate to Aboriginal towns, or towns with high aboriginal populations.
Ceduna, Halls Creek, Fitzroy Crossing, Bourke & so forth.
Every 'aboriginal town' has a reputation - this is often perpetuated by the fearful, most of whom have never visited or engaged those who live there, or by racists.
All too often folk ask "Is it safe' to visit so & so town. Makes no more sense to me than asking is it safe to visit Ballarat, Melbourne or Hobart. But folk only ask this about aboriginal towns. It is fear borne of ignorance in the main, but sometimes perhaps fear of prejudice showing & inviting a negative response. Either way that's is sad at so many levels.
No-one pretends that many indigenous communities don't suffer problems, but the real problem is that this provides the fearful or the blaming with an excuse to avoid & to tell others to do the same.
In just the same way that asking folks what a road condition is, the answer depends on who is doing the telling. A terrible road to some is a good road to others. Only way is to find out for yourself. Same with these towns with a 'reputation'. When someone tells you that a place has a reputation you have a choice - either go along with it ...... or don't. The more that folk show a modicum of backbone the less the reputations maintain an undeserved life of their own.
Whenever we have been advised to avoid a community, it gives us a reason to visit, & we have never, not ever, not once, regretted doing so, & more often have had a very positive & warm experiences.
We go with a positive, respectful & interested attitude. Yes we've seen loud drunks on occasion, no different to loud drunks anywhere else & best avoided. Yes we've seen the dead cars , the rubbish & the caged fuel bowsers - much the same as any disadvantaged area , these are the things that many choose to formulate their views on, to do more than this is outside their comfort zone so they never see past that to the people, instead remaining separate & later repeating the advice to others to avoid the place. It's easier than acknowledging that the fear was their own rather than anything threatened.
And like Chinese whispers the stories grow & become embellished over time.
Years ago immediately prior to our first trip around the block we found ourselves feeling very surprised, not that we were being advised to avoid, but that some of the folk giving the advice were otherwise intelligent folk whom we respected. Today with most of us knowing intelligent folk who subscribe to the plethora of bizarre conspiracy theories perhaps the level of surprise would be less as clearly intelligence doesn't come into it.
Indigenous folk have a very different lived experience to most non indigenous folk but if we make the space to see all people as people & engage with them warmly & respectfully mostly they will reciprocate.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Friday 25th of March 2022 08:00:15 PM
Wanda said
05:48 PM Mar 25, 2022
A nice post, well put
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Friday 25th of March 2022 05:50:48 PM
peter67 said
06:16 PM Mar 25, 2022
While I agree with your sentiments the reality is far different here in northern WA, a couple of towns in particular. Coppers are being rammed in their vehicles and assaulted frequently, it's hard for them to operate with both hands tied behind their backs. Ask the many tourists in Broome why their holiday rentals are broken into and the car keys stolen, they find their new 4x4 burnt out the day and never go back. Why all the extra security at the airport, even the school there. I've heard Alice Springs has razor wire around it but they still dig under the fence and bash backpacker boys or girls, one recently comes to mind.
Radar said
06:32 PM Mar 25, 2022
Hi Cuppa.
You really hit the nail on the head, well written.
Thank you.
86GTS said
08:08 PM Mar 25, 2022
Last time we stayed near Bourke at May's Bend.
The "locals" came out there & stole anything that wasn't tied down, vandalised cars, then headed to Kidmans Camp CP & loosened wheel nuts on caravans/tugs.
Its a game of pot luck, sometimes things are OK & other times the "locals" are restless.
We're not anti first nation people but sometimes sh*t happens in these places.
Thats why they have a reputation.
Warren-Pat_01 said
09:35 PM Mar 25, 2022
We lived at Ceduna for 15.5 years. Yes there were indigenous drunks near the Foreshore Hotel & there was a camp just out of town.
But there were a lot who had good jobs - they, unfortunately were the ones you didn't hear of, quietly going about their lives just as other people did.
HOWEVER, there was never the amount of trouble that Townsville has found itself in now & the strife is getting worse - thanks to a weak State Govt that treats the victims poorly & gives the "kiddy-crims" NO punishment, a freedom to do what they like, when they like! When caught they are given bail & set free to do the same the next night. Millions of $$ have been wasted on failed programs. The latest victim is an 80 year old woman who was bashed with a crow bar in her house a few nights ago when she disturbed 3 "kids" rummaging through her house. People have been woken at night to find a kid holding a knife at them & demanding their car keys!
The "kids" (aged 10 to 17 years) have already killed some of their mates in car crashes, a young innocent woman was killed in a vigilante crash, normal people have been terrorised on the roads by stolen cars being driven at break-neck speeds on the wrong side of the road - day or night. Cars have been thrashed & crashed, set on fire - totally destroyed. They might belong to a struggling family, a single mother or from the "upper crust". One older man was connecting his caravan chains to his car (a Toyota LC - unfortunately he left the engine running as he did it. A "kid" aged 12 years jumped in & accelerated off, knocking the man over (luckily) as the car got 100m down the road before the whole rig was rolled over.
So for those heading for the warmer climates this year be very careful if you have an automatic car - especially in Townsville but also in Cairns & Mackay. Keep your keys hidden & your van/car locked.
chappy said
11:17 PM Mar 25, 2022
We have twice stayed in the Wilcannia van park owned by the community! It is a great spot. As it was explained to us yes the locals drive through, however as we were staying & paying we would not have any trouble. And we didn't! In Cairns we have had 107 cars stolen in March until last week. I can't give you any updates on that! Please everyone lock up at all times! Sadly this is the new normal.
Aus-Kiwi said
10:03 AM Mar 26, 2022
Elliott NT was the biggest embarrassment for me ! Even the police station has 8ft fences around it !! Ive had rocks thrown at motorhome !! Only stopped when I used the lemon gun . With a lime in it . First time Ive seen a white black fella ! Btw my name is Graeme ELLIOTT !!
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Saturday 26th of March 2022 10:04:12 AM
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:40 AM Mar 26, 2022
I've had mixed experiences.
One time, when I was a teenager working on a farm near Walgett, I was waiting outside the general store for my boss to finish shopping. A couple of first nation people approached. The women went inside and the man sat on the garden wall next to me. I was worried because of all the stories that I'd heard from the locals.
I could tell that the man was drunk and I could smell the alcohol. I looked at him and he looked at me. I said, "Hi" and he mumbled something that I took as a greeting and that was it. We sat there in silence waiting for our companions to finish shopping.
My boss would employ a first nation grader operator to build and repair turkey nest dams. My boss said that the operator could grade the top of the dam to within a few inches. That was quite an achievement.
Another time a copper friend of mine approached a first nation man who was drunk on top of a building. The man threatened to jump off the copper approached him. The man swan dived off the building but fortunately didn't hurt himself.
I think the issue is inequality. Those who have been given a chance can succeed. Those who have not, are caught up in the constant cycle of poverty and the related issues. This applies to all races.
I saw a show that said only 4% of people in the USA get out of poverty. That probably applies to Australians and other countries. Unfortunately, the disparity of the rich and poor is getting wider. Unless the governments address inequality then the problems are only going to get worse.
We see people who can't afford insurance who have lost their houses in recent floods and fires. If they can't afford insurance then how will they be able to start again and get out of poverty?
Hairyone said
12:21 PM Mar 26, 2022
I think different peoples experiences leave different impressions.........
Bobdown said
02:11 PM Mar 26, 2022
There are towns that are avoidable for various reasons, word of mouth is mostly accurate for me, you have to be careful out there.
Various governments of all persuasions have spent billions of dollars to try and fix the problem and make themselves look good.
But the money doesn't get to the source most times, skimmed off the top by all the agencies and do gooders, representing no one but their own interests.
Cheers Bob
Aus-Kiwi said
09:29 AM Mar 27, 2022
Money will not fix the problem! Its JOBS ! The ones I find with great attitude is the ones who work and DONT drink !! Some villagers/ mobs have strong woman who ban drinking !! These have a total different atmosphere! Up around Mataranka or mobs working on stations ! They need assistance in a different way than gov just handing bout money . Its also vey lazy to say we gave $xxxxxx to prevent poverty etc . It doesnt go to where it should . Selling off our farms, land infrastructure doesnt help !! Country people are so different to city !! Drugs and alcohol is bad news !
vince56 said
09:45 AM Mar 27, 2022
What I have found on several occasions in remote towns is that it is hard to treat people with "warmth and respect" when you are asleep (or trying to sleep) in your van whilst your esky is being raided, fishing gear stolen, mirrors broken, tow bar tongue stolen and your wheel nuts are being loosened by people you have never seen or met. It is impossible to generalize and be fair, all towns have their issues and I see no problem with people sharing their experiences in those towns, forearmed is forewarned.
Aussie1 said
02:02 PM Mar 27, 2022
vince56 wrote:
What I have found on several occasions in remote towns is that it is hard to treat people with "warmth and respect" when you are asleep (or trying to sleep) in your van whilst your esky is being raided, fishing gear stolen, mirrors broken, tow bar tongue stolen and your wheel nuts are being loosened by people you have never seen or met. It is impossible to generalize and be fair, all towns have their issues and I see no problem with people sharing their experiences in those towns, forearmed is forewarned.
X2 Well put Vince.
Cuppa said
02:48 PM Mar 27, 2022
Some of the comments describe unpleasant & unwelcome experiences.
Unpleasant & unwelcome experiences are ...... unpleasant & unwelcome wherever they occur.
Painting an entire community with the same brush however is in my view very narrow minded, unproductive & can only assist in the perpetuation of distrust. It feeds itself. I have no doubt that there would have been plenty of folk in those communities who felt embarrassed & shamed by the behaviour of a few. Folk who were struggling to manage the situation, but who were nevertheless also blamed.
Shame is not easy to acknowledge particularly in the face of anger directed at all aboriginals rather than specifically at the few ratbags responsible.
I repeat, in two decades of travelling around Australia I have never had these sort of experiences nor felt threatened & I put this down to the approach I take when entering someone else's place. I do my best to make myself known & pleased to be there. What I don't do is sneak in, keeping a low profile, & hoping no-one will notice me, nor do I make a loud noise to warn folk off. I go expecting to treat people right & in return expect to be treated right myself. I do however also recognise that I am in a different place where the norms we might expect elsewhere cannot be taken for granted. To do otherwise would be rude & quite possibly offensive. It doesn't require apologetic behavior, but rather an acknowledgement of difference & a need for guidance if required. This shows strength & respect... but I have to say doesn't come easily to many white folk in this situation I believe.
I may be getting it wrong but it seems to me that in the descriptions of unpleasantness in which blame of entire communities is either implied & or is explicitly made there is an underlying problem of discomfort. Discomfort of perhaps not knowing how to cross the bridge of communicating with folk who have a very different world view. A world view which is far easier to criticise than it is to understand.
I make no claim to understanding much at all of aboriginal culture & world view, in fact the more I have learned, the more I realise how little I know. What I do claim though is a desire to know & understand whatever I am deemed worthy & ready to be given. Not to be nosey nor intrusive, but a willingness to learn and that comes with a willingness to be open & judged.
My skin colour & my background will always be an impediment in this process, as probably will lack of time, the latter more so, but it is certainly fair to say that the time I have spent in communities, unlike some of the reports/anecdotes here has left me with memories of feeling respected, acceptance & privileged to varying degrees.
Nothing especially profound (that I'm willing to share) more just relating to others on an equal basis, no different to anywhere with good white folk, except that it's a bigger step to take.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 27th of March 2022 02:52:49 PM
yobarr said
02:53 PM Mar 27, 2022
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Money will not fix the problem! Its JOBS ! The ones I find with great attitude is the ones who work and DONT drink !! Some villagers/ mobs have strong woman who ban drinking !! These have a total different atmosphere! Up around Mataranka or mobs working on stations ! They need assistance in a different way than gov just handing bout money . Its also vey lazy to say we gave $xxxxxx to prevent poverty etc . It doesnt go to where it should . Selling off our farms, land infrastructure doesnt help !! Country people are so different to city !! Drugs and alcohol is bad news !
Well said Graeme. Recently my driving mates and I spent some time in a country pub in an outback WA town that has a population of around 1500. On the main street,in the shade, sat a group of locals, drinking Jack Daniels and Coke from large bottles. To buy the large bottles of JD at the pub, photo ID had to be presented, and it seems many of the drinkers could not provide this, as one intoxicated lady visited the pub no fewer than 8 times while we were there. Each time, she showed ID and left with one of the pre-packed bags containg very large bottle of JD and a 2 litres (?) bottle of coke. Local man drinking with us said "$115 each bag". Yeah, times certainly are tough. Cheers
86GTS said
05:37 PM Mar 27, 2022
Its impossible to treat others as equals when they are clearly not.
We don't go around stealing & vandalising things but they do.
This doesn't apply to all of them but in some of these towns with a reputation there is an active minority present.
Yes, there are plenty of non-indigenous low lifes around too.
We didn't wait until retirement to travel extensively.
We've been heading outback since the 70's
Not much has changed in that time & we've had a number of "interesting experiences".
The less said the better.
hufnpuf said
06:39 PM Mar 27, 2022
86GTS wrote:
We don't go around stealing & vandalising things but they do. This doesn't apply to all of them
So why put it like that? How about "some people act antisocially". Who is "we"? Who is "they"?
I'd lay the blame at the door of booze rather than any culture. Booze is what leads to stupid conduct/violence/getting yourself killed/getting somebody else killed. Young people in towns with few (if any) activities for them to do go looking for something to do and finding trouble instead of something productive. Add in some grog or sniffing chemicals and you can get serious trouble and permanent damage to the people involved. Some places have ideas about fixing/improving things. I saw on a tv doco somewhere has a bus that goes around and picks up kids marauding around town after dark and dropping them home.
I'm very, very lucky to have had things to occupy my time and enough money to follow hobbies when I was young. You can't judge people who do stupid things because they have nothing better to do.
-- Edited by hufnpuf on Sunday 27th of March 2022 06:40:17 PM
Mariner30 said
06:43 PM Mar 27, 2022
When it's the townsfolk or business folk telling me to lock the car/ caravan/ put stuff away we tend to listen to THEM.
Been to a lot of the towns in the OP ( and more ) and it has been a problem for decades.
Sorry ' bout that.
Cuppa said
07:29 PM Mar 27, 2022
Mariner30 wrote:
When it's the townsfolk or business folk telling me to lock the car/ caravan/ put stuff away we tend to listen to THEM.
If it were whitefellas giving me that advice about blackfellas I would consider it a high probability that it was the whitefellas who were the problem, because I bet more often than not that the advice would come with gratuitous racist filth.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 27th of March 2022 07:30:06 PM
Mariner30 said
07:44 PM Mar 27, 2022
Umm,
I'm actually of Aboriginal descent. .
My grandmother was a " half caste "
My father and his siblings spent their formative years in orphanages in the 1920's and19 30's.
But anyway....stuff happens...everywhere.
I remember being soundly abused in a infamous Darling River town by ' locals '...until the school group that my son had been footy with told them to stop.
Get over yourself mate.
vince56 said
08:20 PM Mar 27, 2022
What is it with people nowadays, why does a topic have to descend into attacks!
The last two posts are hard talk and unnecessary, can we please return to friendly chat.......
rgren2 said
09:35 PM Mar 27, 2022
I warned my daughter and her partner about the locals at a place they wanted to stay at. They didnt listen and were bitten severely. The midgies were unrelenting, they packed up at 2am and went home.
Cuppa said
10:38 PM Mar 27, 2022
vince56 wrote:
What is it with people nowadays, why does a topic have to descend into attacks! The last two posts are hard talk and unnecessary, can we please return to friendly chat.......
I'm sorry if you saw my post as an attack. I'm unclear who you thought I was attacking. Was it the use of the R word which caused discomfort? In case that was it, I stand by it, but I think it was clear it was not directed toward anyone here. If it had been it would have been far more direct, possibly blunt. But it would be foolish to pretend that some of the worst racism that exists in Australia in country & outback towns where white & black live alongside each other but in two different worlds isn't real. The opposite is also true. Some places are better at mixing than others. Racism is racism & is abhorrent in my book. I haven't seen it blatantly displayed in this thread & I hope it stays that way. I do want to be clear though, if I were to label something that someone says as racism I would be labelling behaviour. This should not be confused with 'personal attack'. If I were to call someone a clueless moron with the looks of a warty pig, then it would be fair to accuse me of personal attack. In my book it's about playing the ball & not the man. Doing the opposite crosses the line & becomes unacceptable.
The underlying theme of this thread is without doubt racism. It drives negative reputations, together with the angry & anti social behaviour that some have described being on the receiving end of. or have heard about or read about. I began the thread not with the intent of drawing out negative stories (but was of course aware that that this was a probability) but more in the hope of generating discussion in which maybe a more understanding narrative might be possible, getting past the justifications for remaining stuck. I expected I may come under attack, but nevertheless hoped, & still hope that folk participating may be prepared to accept that there is a broader picture than a narrow blaming view. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour wherever it happens & whoever does it. This is not an attempt to condone bad behaviour. Rather it is an attempt to recognise the positives among all the aboriginals who have not behaved badly just as we do among our non aboriginal communities. We have white fellas do some terrible things to others, we sanction individuals for bad behaviour but we don't lump all whitefellas together as 'no good' like we do with aboriginal folk.
As for being told to 'get over myself', I read it as as perhaps unnecessarily narky perhaps, but it was a brief distraction. The important part of that post as I read it was "I don't agree & don't think you know what you're talking about" . Two different views derived from different experiences where there remains a potential to agree to differ, possibly even to gain a better understanding of the each others view point. That possibility evaporates only with personal abuse which can be a fine line sometimes, especially with folk in a place like this whom you don't know. I didn't feel that a line had been crossed.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 27th of March 2022 10:53:56 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 27th of March 2022 11:15:28 PM
Hairyone said
09:06 AM Mar 28, 2022
Hahahaha.....Are you sure this post wasn't really started to generate a race related debate and show off your articulate use of the Queens english?
vince56 said
09:23 AM Mar 28, 2022
Cuppa, I am saying that your language is severe, ie "racist filth" etc, this site is about life on the road and enjoying retirement, all too often it is shanghaied by posts like yours, sorry but I do think your post is to create a "rise". There are plenty of websites where you can espouse your views on heavy topics, racism being one of them.
HAPPINESS and good "life on the road" info sharing is the aim here.
Buzz Lightbulb said
09:52 AM Mar 28, 2022
From my observations there are undesirable actions from people no matter what race, religion, nationality or gender, etcetera. It's not right to point the finger at any one attribute and say that's the cause, other than inequality.
Brodie Allen said
10:09 AM Mar 28, 2022
There's good and bad everywhere - even extending to our top Parliamentarians.
I had 13 years in the Gulf Country as a young fella - and saw both sides of it.
The underlying problem with indiginous is resentment. I have no idea how to overcome theis.
I have employed indiginous in a fairly technical business in recent years and some have
been the best employees I could have.
Same goes for white fella.
Wherever you go, be very aware that there is some bloody wicked A-Holes out there
of every extraction - but I do admit that the percentages are often weighted.
Common sense must prevail.
Brodie
Cuppa said
10:25 AM Mar 28, 2022
vince56 wrote:
Cuppa, I am saying that your language is severe, ie "racist filth" etc, this site is about life on the road and enjoying retirement, all too often it is shanghaied by posts like yours, sorry but I do think your post is to create a "rise". There are plenty of websites where you can espouse your views on heavy topics, racism being one of them.
HAPPINESS and good "life on the road" info sharing is the aim here.
Vince, I appreciate you having responded. Personally I think the description of filth applies to any & all racism. In hindsight however using the word was strong, & perhaps unhelpful as a result. It was however not directed at anyone here in the form of an attack.
Your supposition that i have posted to 'create a 'rise' could not be further from the truth, but I accept that is how you have seen it. I do recognise that talking about racism can be a divisive topic but I do also feel that it is a very relevant topic to all Australians, particularly those of us who love nothing better than to explore our country. I was prompted to initiate this thread after seeing yet another thread which asked whether to avoid a place or not, & chose not to post in that thread because I recognised the question as being quite genuine & did not wish to appear to be singling anyone out undeservedly.
I love life on the road as most here do, but I am also very clear that turning a blind eye to something very wrong (by making it a taboo subject on this travellers forum in this instance) may feel like harmony is being maintained, but is precisely the sort of behaviour which allows this wrong to continue & I think it reasonable to challenge this wherever it arises. With the exception of the descriptive term I used for racism, which has obviously caused more discomfort with an uncomfortable topic than was necessary, I feel I have been pretty considered & open about where I am coming from, & in particular about my disagreement that we should all maintain a mutual 'happy' silence about this blight on our otherwise wonderful country.
Cuppa said
10:33 AM Mar 28, 2022
Brodie Allen wrote:
There's good and bad everywhere - even extending to our top Parliamentarians.
I had 13 years in the Gulf Country as a young fella - and saw both sides of it.
The underlying problem with indiginous is resentment. I have no idea how to overcome this.
I have employed indiginous in a fairly technical business in recent years and some have been the best employees I could have.
Same goes for white fella.
Wherever you go, be very aware that there is some bloody wicked A-Holes out there of every extraction - but I do admit that the percentages are often weighted.
Common sense must prevail.
Brodie
I too have no idea how to overcome this. If it was easily achieved I doubt we'd be where we are today. I do however have a sense of what doesn't help, & that is brushing problems under the carpet. Difficult conversations are by their nature difficult & the only way I see around that is to have them & not hide from them. Of course by saying that makes me, for some, the target. A case of shooting the messenger I suggest. There is nothing in your post that I would disagree with.
"Don't go there", "Just get your fuel & go" "It's not safe" "Barbed wire around the CP" "Lock up everything" "Don't leave your van unattended"
We've all heard these sort of things - almost inevitably they relate to Aboriginal towns, or towns with high aboriginal populations.
Ceduna, Halls Creek, Fitzroy Crossing, Bourke & so forth.
Every 'aboriginal town' has a reputation - this is often perpetuated by the fearful, most of whom have never visited or engaged those who live there, or by racists.
All too often folk ask "Is it safe' to visit so & so town. Makes no more sense to me than asking is it safe to visit Ballarat, Melbourne or Hobart. But folk only ask this about aboriginal towns. It is fear borne of ignorance in the main, but sometimes perhaps fear of prejudice showing & inviting a negative response. Either way that's is sad at so many levels.
No-one pretends that many indigenous communities don't suffer problems, but the real problem is that this provides the fearful or the blaming with an excuse to avoid & to tell others to do the same.
In just the same way that asking folks what a road condition is, the answer depends on who is doing the telling. A terrible road to some is a good road to others. Only way is to find out for yourself. Same with these towns with a 'reputation'. When someone tells you that a place has a reputation you have a choice - either go along with it ...... or don't. The more that folk show a modicum of backbone the less the reputations maintain an undeserved life of their own.
Whenever we have been advised to avoid a community, it gives us a reason to visit, & we have never, not ever, not once, regretted doing so, & more often have had a very positive & warm experiences.
We go with a positive, respectful & interested attitude. Yes we've seen loud drunks on occasion, no different to loud drunks anywhere else & best avoided. Yes we've seen the dead cars , the rubbish & the caged fuel bowsers - much the same as any disadvantaged area , these are the things that many choose to formulate their views on, to do more than this is outside their comfort zone so they never see past that to the people, instead remaining separate & later repeating the advice to others to avoid the place. It's easier than acknowledging that the fear was their own rather than anything threatened.
And like Chinese whispers the stories grow & become embellished over time.
Years ago immediately prior to our first trip around the block we found ourselves feeling very surprised, not that we were being advised to avoid, but that some of the folk giving the advice were otherwise intelligent folk whom we respected. Today with most of us knowing intelligent folk who subscribe to the plethora of bizarre conspiracy theories perhaps the level of surprise would be less as clearly intelligence doesn't come into it.
Indigenous folk have a very different lived experience to most non indigenous folk but if we make the space to see all people as people & engage with them warmly & respectfully mostly they will reciprocate.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Friday 25th of March 2022 08:00:15 PM
A nice post, well put
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Friday 25th of March 2022 05:50:48 PM
Hi Cuppa.
You really hit the nail on the head, well written.
Thank you.
The "locals" came out there & stole anything that wasn't tied down, vandalised cars, then headed to Kidmans Camp CP & loosened wheel nuts on caravans/tugs.
Its a game of pot luck, sometimes things are OK & other times the "locals" are restless.
We're not anti first nation people but sometimes sh*t happens in these places.
Thats why they have a reputation.
But there were a lot who had good jobs - they, unfortunately were the ones you didn't hear of, quietly going about their lives just as other people did.
HOWEVER, there was never the amount of trouble that Townsville has found itself in now & the strife is getting worse - thanks to a weak State Govt that treats the victims poorly & gives the "kiddy-crims" NO punishment, a freedom to do what they like, when they like! When caught they are given bail & set free to do the same the next night. Millions of $$ have been wasted on failed programs. The latest victim is an 80 year old woman who was bashed with a crow bar in her house a few nights ago when she disturbed 3 "kids" rummaging through her house. People have been woken at night to find a kid holding a knife at them & demanding their car keys!
The "kids" (aged 10 to 17 years) have already killed some of their mates in car crashes, a young innocent woman was killed in a vigilante crash, normal people have been terrorised on the roads by stolen cars being driven at break-neck speeds on the wrong side of the road - day or night. Cars have been thrashed & crashed, set on fire - totally destroyed. They might belong to a struggling family, a single mother or from the "upper crust". One older man was connecting his caravan chains to his car (a Toyota LC - unfortunately he left the engine running as he did it. A "kid" aged 12 years jumped in & accelerated off, knocking the man over (luckily) as the car got 100m down the road before the whole rig was rolled over.
So for those heading for the warmer climates this year be very careful if you have an automatic car - especially in Townsville but also in Cairns & Mackay. Keep your keys hidden & your van/car locked.
Elliott NT was the biggest embarrassment for me ! Even the police station has 8ft fences around it !! Ive had rocks thrown at motorhome !! Only stopped when I used the lemon gun . With a lime in it . First time Ive seen a white black fella ! Btw my name is Graeme ELLIOTT !!
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Saturday 26th of March 2022 10:04:12 AM
I've had mixed experiences.
One time, when I was a teenager working on a farm near Walgett, I was waiting outside the general store for my boss to finish shopping. A couple of first nation people approached. The women went inside and the man sat on the garden wall next to me. I was worried because of all the stories that I'd heard from the locals.
I could tell that the man was drunk and I could smell the alcohol. I looked at him and he looked at me. I said, "Hi" and he mumbled something that I took as a greeting and that was it. We sat there in silence waiting for our companions to finish shopping.
My boss would employ a first nation grader operator to build and repair turkey nest dams. My boss said that the operator could grade the top of the dam to within a few inches. That was quite an achievement.
Another time a copper friend of mine approached a first nation man who was drunk on top of a building. The man threatened to jump off the copper approached him. The man swan dived off the building but fortunately didn't hurt himself.
I think the issue is inequality. Those who have been given a chance can succeed. Those who have not, are caught up in the constant cycle of poverty and the related issues. This applies to all races.
I saw a show that said only 4% of people in the USA get out of poverty. That probably applies to Australians and other countries. Unfortunately, the disparity of the rich and poor is getting wider. Unless the governments address inequality then the problems are only going to get worse.
We see people who can't afford insurance who have lost their houses in recent floods and fires. If they can't afford insurance then how will they be able to start again and get out of poverty?
I think different peoples experiences leave different impressions.........
There are towns that are avoidable for various reasons, word of mouth is mostly accurate for me, you have to be careful out there.
Various governments of all persuasions have spent billions of dollars to try and fix the problem and make themselves look good.
But the money doesn't get to the source most times, skimmed off the top by all the agencies and do gooders, representing no one but their own interests.
Cheers Bob
X2 Well put Vince.
Some of the comments describe unpleasant & unwelcome experiences.
Unpleasant & unwelcome experiences are ...... unpleasant & unwelcome wherever they occur.
Painting an entire community with the same brush however is in my view very narrow minded, unproductive & can only assist in the perpetuation of distrust. It feeds itself. I have no doubt that there would have been plenty of folk in those communities who felt embarrassed & shamed by the behaviour of a few. Folk who were struggling to manage the situation, but who were nevertheless also blamed.
Shame is not easy to acknowledge particularly in the face of anger directed at all aboriginals rather than specifically at the few ratbags responsible.
I repeat, in two decades of travelling around Australia I have never had these sort of experiences nor felt threatened & I put this down to the approach I take when entering someone else's place. I do my best to make myself known & pleased to be there. What I don't do is sneak in, keeping a low profile, & hoping no-one will notice me, nor do I make a loud noise to warn folk off. I go expecting to treat people right & in return expect to be treated right myself. I do however also recognise that I am in a different place where the norms we might expect elsewhere cannot be taken for granted. To do otherwise would be rude & quite possibly offensive. It doesn't require apologetic behavior, but rather an acknowledgement of difference & a need for guidance if required. This shows strength & respect... but I have to say doesn't come easily to many white folk in this situation I believe.
I may be getting it wrong but it seems to me that in the descriptions of unpleasantness in which blame of entire communities is either implied & or is explicitly made there is an underlying problem of discomfort. Discomfort of perhaps not knowing how to cross the bridge of communicating with folk who have a very different world view. A world view which is far easier to criticise than it is to understand.
I make no claim to understanding much at all of aboriginal culture & world view, in fact the more I have learned, the more I realise how little I know. What I do claim though is a desire to know & understand whatever I am deemed worthy & ready to be given. Not to be nosey nor intrusive, but a willingness to learn and that comes with a willingness to be open & judged.
My skin colour & my background will always be an impediment in this process, as probably will lack of time, the latter more so, but it is certainly fair to say that the time I have spent in communities, unlike some of the reports/anecdotes here has left me with memories of feeling respected, acceptance & privileged to varying degrees.
Nothing especially profound (that I'm willing to share) more just relating to others on an equal basis, no different to anywhere with good white folk, except that it's a bigger step to take.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 27th of March 2022 02:52:49 PM
Well said Graeme. Recently my driving mates and I spent some time in a country pub in an outback WA town that has a population of around 1500. On the main street,in the shade, sat a group of locals, drinking Jack Daniels and Coke from large bottles. To buy the large bottles of JD at the pub, photo ID had to be presented, and it seems many of the drinkers could not provide this, as one intoxicated lady visited the pub no fewer than 8 times while we were there. Each time, she showed ID and left with one of the pre-packed bags containg very large bottle of JD and a 2 litres (?) bottle of coke. Local man drinking with us said "$115 each bag". Yeah, times certainly are tough. Cheers
We don't go around stealing & vandalising things but they do.
This doesn't apply to all of them but in some of these towns with a reputation there is an active minority present.
Yes, there are plenty of non-indigenous low lifes around too.
We didn't wait until retirement to travel extensively.
We've been heading outback since the 70's
Not much has changed in that time & we've had a number of "interesting experiences".
The less said the better.
So why put it like that? How about "some people act antisocially". Who is "we"? Who is "they"?
I'd lay the blame at the door of booze rather than any culture. Booze is what leads to stupid conduct/violence/getting yourself killed/getting somebody else killed. Young people in towns with few (if any) activities for them to do go looking for something to do and finding trouble instead of something productive. Add in some grog or sniffing chemicals and you can get serious trouble and permanent damage to the people involved. Some places have ideas about fixing/improving things. I saw on a tv doco somewhere has a bus that goes around and picks up kids marauding around town after dark and dropping them home.
I'm very, very lucky to have had things to occupy my time and enough money to follow hobbies when I was young. You can't judge people who do stupid things because they have nothing better to do.
-- Edited by hufnpuf on Sunday 27th of March 2022 06:40:17 PM
Been to a lot of the towns in the OP ( and more ) and it has been a problem for decades.
Sorry ' bout that.
If it were whitefellas giving me that advice about blackfellas I would consider it a high probability that it was the whitefellas who were the problem, because I bet more often than not that the advice would come with gratuitous racist filth.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 27th of March 2022 07:30:06 PM
I'm actually of Aboriginal descent. .
My grandmother was a " half caste "
My father and his siblings spent their formative years in orphanages in the 1920's and19 30's.
But anyway....stuff happens...everywhere.
I remember being soundly abused in a infamous Darling River town by ' locals '...until the school group that my son had been footy with told them to stop.
Get over yourself mate.
The last two posts are hard talk and unnecessary, can we please return to friendly chat.......
I warned my daughter and her partner about the locals at a place they wanted to stay at. They didnt listen and were bitten severely. The midgies were unrelenting, they packed up at 2am and went home.
I'm sorry if you saw my post as an attack. I'm unclear who you thought I was attacking. Was it the use of the R word which caused discomfort? In case that was it, I stand by it, but I think it was clear it was not directed toward anyone here. If it had been it would have been far more direct, possibly blunt. But it would be foolish to pretend that some of the worst racism that exists in Australia in country & outback towns where white & black live alongside each other but in two different worlds isn't real. The opposite is also true. Some places are better at mixing than others. Racism is racism & is abhorrent in my book. I haven't seen it blatantly displayed in this thread & I hope it stays that way. I do want to be clear though, if I were to label something that someone says as racism I would be labelling behaviour. This should not be confused with 'personal attack'. If I were to call someone a clueless moron with the looks of a warty pig, then it would be fair to accuse me of personal attack. In my book it's about playing the ball & not the man. Doing the opposite crosses the line & becomes unacceptable.
The underlying theme of this thread is without doubt racism. It drives negative reputations, together with the angry & anti social behaviour that some have described being on the receiving end of. or have heard about or read about. I began the thread not with the intent of drawing out negative stories (but was of course aware that that this was a probability) but more in the hope of generating discussion in which maybe a more understanding narrative might be possible, getting past the justifications for remaining stuck. I expected I may come under attack, but nevertheless hoped, & still hope that folk participating may be prepared to accept that there is a broader picture than a narrow blaming view. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour wherever it happens & whoever does it. This is not an attempt to condone bad behaviour. Rather it is an attempt to recognise the positives among all the aboriginals who have not behaved badly just as we do among our non aboriginal communities. We have white fellas do some terrible things to others, we sanction individuals for bad behaviour but we don't lump all whitefellas together as 'no good' like we do with aboriginal folk.
As for being told to 'get over myself', I read it as as perhaps unnecessarily narky perhaps, but it was a brief distraction. The important part of that post as I read it was "I don't agree & don't think you know what you're talking about" . Two different views derived from different experiences where there remains a potential to agree to differ, possibly even to gain a better understanding of the each others view point. That possibility evaporates only with personal abuse which can be a fine line sometimes, especially with folk in a place like this whom you don't know. I didn't feel that a line had been crossed.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 27th of March 2022 10:53:56 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 27th of March 2022 11:15:28 PM
HAPPINESS and good "life on the road" info sharing is the aim here.
From my observations there are undesirable actions from people no matter what race, religion, nationality or gender, etcetera. It's not right to point the finger at any one attribute and say that's the cause, other than inequality.
I had 13 years in the Gulf Country as a young fella - and saw both sides of it.
The underlying problem with indiginous is resentment. I have no idea how to overcome theis.
I have employed indiginous in a fairly technical business in recent years and some have
been the best employees I could have.
Same goes for white fella.
Wherever you go, be very aware that there is some bloody wicked A-Holes out there
of every extraction - but I do admit that the percentages are often weighted.
Common sense must prevail.
Brodie
Vince, I appreciate you having responded. Personally I think the description of filth applies to any & all racism. In hindsight however using the word was strong, & perhaps unhelpful as a result. It was however not directed at anyone here in the form of an attack.
Your supposition that i have posted to 'create a 'rise' could not be further from the truth, but I accept that is how you have seen it. I do recognise that talking about racism can be a divisive topic but I do also feel that it is a very relevant topic to all Australians, particularly those of us who love nothing better than to explore our country. I was prompted to initiate this thread after seeing yet another thread which asked whether to avoid a place or not, & chose not to post in that thread because I recognised the question as being quite genuine & did not wish to appear to be singling anyone out undeservedly.
I love life on the road as most here do, but I am also very clear that turning a blind eye to something very wrong (by making it a taboo subject on this travellers forum in this instance) may feel like harmony is being maintained, but is precisely the sort of behaviour which allows this wrong to continue & I think it reasonable to challenge this wherever it arises. With the exception of the descriptive term I used for racism, which has obviously caused more discomfort with an uncomfortable topic than was necessary, I feel I have been pretty considered & open about where I am coming from, & in particular about my disagreement that we should all maintain a mutual 'happy' silence about this blight on our otherwise wonderful country.
I too have no idea how to overcome this. If it was easily achieved I doubt we'd be where we are today. I do however have a sense of what doesn't help, & that is brushing problems under the carpet. Difficult conversations are by their nature difficult & the only way I see around that is to have them & not hide from them. Of course by saying that makes me, for some, the target. A case of shooting the messenger I suggest. There is nothing in your post that I would disagree with.