We're in the process of buying a campervan and having second thoughts about the drive train.
2WD v 4WD v AWD.
I'd really appreciate some thoughts from members.
To put things into context and as some background.
The Vehicle.
We are committed to a campervan (like avatar) rather than larger motorhome, camper trailer, caravan etc.
So rather than go into the pros and cons of each, it just suits our needs better.
And we prefer the LWB Merc Sprinter, Fiat Ducato, 'size'. rather smaller like a Hiace or slide-on, as it can fit a separate shower/toilet cubicle, permanent bed and small dinette.
The Use.
Day trips, Weekends, week long trips, and maybe now and then 2-3 week trips, mainly on East coast and into the country. Not 'laps'.
We like country / mountain landscapes more than beaches. So no beach driving planned. And prefer quieter remoter campsites.
Though 'madam' is not into total isolation when camping for fear of bears, wolves, zombies and all those things that go 'bump in the night'.
Yes....Very active imagination....
So to date (in hire van) we have enjoyed remote sites on lakesides, in wineries and on hill sides, where there were 2 or 3 other vans or a homestead in sight.
Hopefully you get the idea .....
Driving.
We like to drive..........and drive.......covering a fair bit of ground. Just overnighting at campsite. That's just us.
So we're mainly on the black top getting from A to B. Stopping in country towns along the way.
The only bits 'off' the back top........would be:
The last few kms on unsealed/dirt roads to a country campsite.
Maybe heading up a dirt road to a lookout or something. Like up Mount Oxley, Barrington Tops, that kind of thing.
Maybe 100-200 kms now and again on an unsealed road.
So not heading 'into the bush' or 'mud plugging' on 4WD only tracks.
It's a campervan after all. Just after a bit more 'traction' now and again.
That's probably it to be honest.
So we have a 2WD on order, and who knows when that will be ready......maybe 12 months if lucky.
Of course all this waiting time now has me planning trips, checking out camp sites of Wikicamps, watching endless YouTube videos on campervan types, other people's road trips........
And generally...............absorbing way too much information ! Because that overthinking now causes doubts.
We picked the campervan we picked (Avan Applause 600-2), because we like the layout, like the way it drives, it comes with lots of extras, and won't break the bank (it was cheaper than others).
But now I'm thinking.......
If we bought a different brand/model we would get it sooner.
We could actually afford a bit more now.........so should we consider 4WD or AWD?
The 4WD or AWD would at least give us the ability to get off the black top a bit more if we saw places we wanted to visit etc etc.
Would also mean we didn't have to be quite so cautious in route planning and could include some unsealed roads (depending on condition).
For the sake of something to do on a nice weekend, we're heading out to look at the Jayco 'All Terrain' AWD Merc Sprinter.
Take 'All Terrain' with a prince of salt of course!
Wheel base, clearance and not 'true' 4WD just means it will handle unsealed roads and mild 'off road' with ease compared to a 2WD.
Under no illusion there......
as an aside. I am finally replacing my 23 year old car! No, I'm definitely not a rev head!
This car will hopefully last till I fall off the perch or they take my licence away!
We picked a Rav4 AWD Hybrid. (another 12 month wait)
Drives great. Reviews on drive train are good. And I like the idea of being able to handle forrest tracks a bit better on our country drives.
I guess that also got me thinking about 4WD or AWD for a Campervan.
Sorry for the ramble, but hopefully the context / background helps put things in perspective.
Any thoughts? Stick with the 2WD? "What the heck", go for the AWD?
It's a very personal choice of course. I get that.
But any perspectives from those much more experienced than I, which is all of you........will be more welcome food for thought.
Much appreciated
Mike Harding said
12:53 PM Jul 16, 2022
2WD or 4WD... ho hum...?
You have provided a good description of your intended use and I suspect 2WD would serve you well 98% of the time.
The other 2%, I am thinking, is for those final "few kilometers" to the campsite. If you look for a post from me about five weeks past you'll read how an unexpected 60mm of rain trapped me off-road for a couple of weeks and I was only about 3km from the bitumen. If the vehicle cannot get through it doesn't matter whether you're 100km or 1km into the bush. I guess that having 4WD got me out of this situation about one week earlier than had I had a 2WD.
I imagine 4WD will add, what, $8k to the purchase price? For your intended use I don't think that cost is justified. However what I would do on your 2WD vehicle is ensure it has rated tow points at the front and read (fit them if necessary) and purchase two 10m rated tow straps and four rated shackles - *DO NOT EVER* use shackles to join the tow straps - Google the correct way to do it. *DO NOT* purchase "snatch straps" just good old ordinary rated tow straps. Now, if you do get stuck, you have a fair chance of someone being able to give you a tow and often you only need towing a couple of metres to find traction. Buy a spade too. You could also purchase some MaxTracks or the like.
In reality you have to get out there and do it, make some mistakes, suffer a bit of grief, gain experience and find what works for you. When driving off-road *take your time*, if you come to an obstruction stop, get out and take a look at it, prod it with a stick, work out the best line to take and if you're not confident turn around and go somewhere else.
Most of all... have fun :)
Whenarewethere said
01:52 PM Jul 16, 2022
Even my Land Rover Freelander is not a "proper" 4wd. I do carry 4 sand tracks (never had to use them surprisingly, but a bit on insurance/peace of mind nevertheless), snatch strap (only used as a tow rope to pull a truck bogged with 3 tonnes of roof tiles) 20 metre tow extension, (as pointed out NEVER joint tow ropes with shackles or you will end up like a Russian at the end of a Ukrainian howitzer!) You can get them from ARB & they come with clear instructions.
I would go as far as saying 99.99% of sealed & unsealed roads are perfectly ok with 2wd. It is often that last little bit that is an issue. Maybe just walking it for the sightseeing etc is a compromise & camp in an easier location.
A rear wheel 2wd drive will be a bit better than front 2wd as you will have your maximum payload when traveling. You can still let tyres down to help float the vehicle. Even some sand tracks under the rear wheels might just be enough, I would carry a tow rope & shackles like one would have jumper leads (the number of other cars I have jump started is ridiculous) at least you can ask for help which is normally forthcoming in a remote area.
We have slid off the road in western NSW from standing still. With a bit of water the dirt road is like a bar of soap. A 100 wheel drive car won't help!
Places like Francois Peron National Park & Purnulu NP you are required to have a 4wd.
You will use a bit more fuel with 4wd but you will get to a few more remote quiet locations which could be priceless.
The one thing I recommend is doing acoustic insulation, the foam also make great thermal insulation. It just makes driving so much more pleasurable.
2wd and AWD any difference in the ride height?
Long Wheel Base (LWB)or Medium Wheel Base?
I have driven our LWB Sprinter along bush tracks with good outcomes except in one instance. Not paying attention in getting the best line thru a dry creek bed and going to slow the rear wheels dropped down and the towbar hit the ground and the rear wheels lost traction. Had to jack the rear of the sprinter up, insert tree branches and levelers under the wheels and dig out dirt under the towbar, B4 I could get out. ( A day later drove thru the same creek bed in the best route with no problems what so ever)
So an AWD maybe some benefit but is the ride height better.
In the creek situation above, less overhang of a MWB over a LWB probably would have got thru the creek without an issue, but I/we prefer the more room/space of a LWB vehicle.
86GTS said
02:03 PM Jul 16, 2022
I'd buy what YOU think is the best for YOUR needs. We've owned a 4WD for 12 years & driven on many rough roads & tracks. We've only needed to engage 4WD about three times. We have a 4WD to get us OUT of trouble, not get us INTO trouble.
From experience I wouldn't fancy taking a Sprinter Bus UP Mt Oxley even though it's sort of ''sealed''.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Saturday 16th of July 2022 02:37:20 PM
Cuppa said
03:40 PM Jul 16, 2022
RoboLB wrote:
You like camping alone. You want to camp in remote spots. Those things make, I believe', 4wd a no brainer. Doesn't mean that you have to go rock climbing or mudplugging.You just want the peace of mind which allows you to go that extra few hundred metres along the riverbank, or down that interesting looking track through the forest. I am a great believer in owning a vehicle that is more capable than I am.
Consider this scenario. You are poodling along and see a track leading off the sealed road with a sign pointing to something of interest along a track through the forest - the sandstone caves, the sculptures in the scrub or perhaps a great sounding free camp you've found in wikicamps. In a 2wd chances are you might feel it unwise to have a look & push on feeling you wish we'd bought a 4wd. In a 4wd you check it out and feel pleased that you made the vehicle choice you did, not because you needed to use the 4wd function, but because having it gave you the confidence required to find this special place. If the track gets too hard, out of your comfort zone, you know you have the means to turn around & re-trace your steps.
landy said
07:03 PM Jul 16, 2022
Just another alternative for you, have you considered having a rear diff Locker fitted to a two wheel drive vehicle. From memory some of the prices where quite reasonable and will add a considerable amount of extra traction to a two wheel drive vehicle. From the way you have described your needs I think you may find it ideal. Here is a bit of information for you https://www.offroadaussie.com/what-is-a-diff-locker-everything-you-need-to-know/ Landy
RoboLB said
07:04 PM Jul 16, 2022
Mike Harding wrote:
2WD or 4WD... ho hum...?
You have provided a good description of your intended use and I suspect 2WD would serve you well 98% of the time.
The other 2%, I am thinking, is for those final "few kilometers" to the campsite. If you look for a post from me about five weeks past you'll read how an unexpected 60mm of rain trapped me off-road for a couple of weeks and I was only about 3km from the bitumen. If the vehicle cannot get through it doesn't matter whether you're 100km or 1km into the bush. I guess that having 4WD got me out of this situation about one week earlier than had I had a 2WD.
I imagine 4WD will add, what, $8k to the purchase price? For your intended use I don't think that cost is justified. However what I would do on your 2WD vehicle is ensure it has rated tow points at the front and read (fit them if necessary) and purchase two 10m rated tow straps and four rated shackles - *DO NOT EVER* use shackles to join the tow straps - Google the correct way to do it. *DO NOT* purchase "snatch straps" just good old ordinary rated tow straps. Now, if you do get stuck, you have a fair chance of someone being able to give you a tow and often you only need towing a couple of metres to find traction. Buy a spade too. You could also purchase some MaxTracks or the like.
In reality you have to get out there and do it, make some mistakes, suffer a bit of grief, gain experience and find what works for you. When driving off-road *take your time*, if you come to an obstruction stop, get out and take a look at it, prod it with a stick, work out the best line to take and if you're not confident turn around and go somewhere else.
Most of all... have fun :)
Great advice. Many thanks Mike. We looked at a few vehicles today. Including the 2WD we have on order.
We're tending to think we still like the one on order.
RoboLB said
07:06 PM Jul 16, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
Even my Land Rover Freelander is not a "proper" 4wd. I do carry 4 sand tracks (never had to use them surprisingly, but a bit on insurance/peace of mind nevertheless), snatch strap (only used as a tow rope to pull a truck bogged with 3 tonnes of roof tiles) 20 metre tow extension, (as pointed out NEVER joint tow ropes with shackles or you will end up like a Russian at the end of a Ukrainian howitzer!) You can get them from ARB & they come with clear instructions.
I would go as far as saying 99.99% of sealed & unsealed roads are perfectly ok with 2wd. It is often that last little bit that is an issue. Maybe just walking it for the sightseeing etc is a compromise & camp in an easier location.
A rear wheel 2wd drive will be a bit better than front 2wd as you will have your maximum payload when traveling. You can still let tyres down to help float the vehicle. Even some sand tracks under the rear wheels might just be enough, I would carry a tow rope & shackles like one would have jumper leads (the number of other cars I have jump started is ridiculous) at least you can ask for help which is normally forthcoming in a remote area.
We have slid off the road in western NSW from standing still. With a bit of water the dirt road is like a bar of soap. A 100 wheel drive car won't help!
Places like Francois Peron National Park & Purnulu NP you are required to have a 4wd.
You will use a bit more fuel with 4wd but you will get to a few more remote quiet locations which could be priceless.
The one thing I recommend is doing acoustic insulation, the foam also make great thermal insulation. It just makes driving so much more pleasurable.
Many thanks. More great perspectives and food for thought...
RoboLB said
07:08 PM Jul 16, 2022
PeterInSa wrote:
2wd and AWD any difference in the ride height? Long Wheel Base (LWB)or Medium Wheel Base?
I have driven our LWB Sprinter along bush tracks with good outcomes except in one instance. Not paying attention in getting the best line thru a dry creek bed and going to slow the rear wheels dropped down and the towbar hit the ground and the rear wheels lost traction. Had to jack the rear of the sprinter up, insert tree branches and levelers under the wheels and dig out dirt under the towbar, B4 I could get out. ( A day later drove thru the same creek bed in the best route with no problems what so ever)
So an AWD maybe some benefit but is the ride height better. In the creek situation above, less overhang of a MWB over a LWB probably would have got thru the creek without an issue, but I/we prefer the more room/space of a LWB vehicle.
Both the AWD and 2WD are LWB. And the AWD does have improved ground clearance.
But as we found today, the AWD is not available for 14 months LOL
At our ages, a lot can happen in 14 months LOL.
RoboLB said
07:10 PM Jul 16, 2022
Cuppa wrote:
RoboLB wrote:
You like camping alone. You want to camp in remote spots. Those things make, I believe', 4wd a no brainer. Doesn't mean that you have to go rock climbing or mudplugging.You just want the peace of mind which allows you to go that extra few hundred metres along the riverbank, or down that interesting looking track through the forest. I am a great believer in owning a vehicle that is more capable than I am.
Consider this scenario. You are poodling along and see a track leading off the sealed road with a sign pointing to something of interest along a track through the forest - the sandstone caves, the sculptures in the scrub or perhaps a great sounding free camp you've found in wikicamps. In a 2wd chances are you might feel it unwise to have a look & push on feeling you wish we'd bought a 4wd. In a 4wd you check it out and feel pleased that you made the vehicle choice you did, not because you needed to use the 4wd function, but because having it gave you the confidence required to find this special place. If the track gets too hard, out of your comfort zone, you know you have the means to turn around & re-trace your steps.
Yes I get that. Hence my over thinking......
RoboLB said
07:11 PM Jul 16, 2022
86GTS wrote:
I'd buy what YOU think is the best for YOUR needs. We've owned a 4WD for 12 years & driven on many rough roads & tracks. We've only needed to engage 4WD about three times. We have a 4WD to get us OUT of trouble, not get us INTO trouble.
From experience I wouldn't fancy taking a Sprinter Bus UP Mt Oxley even though it's sort of ''sealed''.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Saturday 16th of July 2022 02:37:20 PM
Many thanks. Kind of where my thinking is going.........
Whenarewethere said
07:25 PM Jul 16, 2022
landy wrote:
Just another alternative for you, have you considered having a rear diff Locker fitted to a two wheel drive vehicle. From memory some of the prices where quite reasonable and will add a considerable amount of extra traction to a two wheel drive vehicle. From the way you have described your needs I think you may find it ideal. Here is a bit of information for you https://www.offroadaussie.com/what-is-a-diff-locker-everything-you-need-to-know/ Landy
Good idea. A 2wd car can very quickly turn into a 0wd car with one wheel trying to launch itself. The diff lockers would give you actual 50/50 two wheel drive on poor surfaces.
RoboLB said
08:33 PM Jul 16, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
landy wrote:
Just another alternative for you, have you considered having a rear diff Locker fitted to a two wheel drive vehicle. From memory some of the prices where quite reasonable and will add a considerable amount of extra traction to a two wheel drive vehicle. From the way you have described your needs I think you may find it ideal. Here is a bit of information for you https://www.offroadaussie.com/what-is-a-diff-locker-everything-you-need-to-know/ Landy
Good idea. A 2wd car can very quickly turn into a 0wd car with one wheel trying to launch itself. The diff lockers would give you actual 50/50 two wheel drive on poor surfaces.
Certainly another good thought!
Aus-Kiwi said
12:07 AM Jul 17, 2022
Suspension travel and good tyres gets most places plus good driving . Mind you at times even 4X4 require a winch ?
IanSch said
07:15 AM Jul 17, 2022
We opted for a 4WD Sprinter van when we purchased our motor home. This was basically as an insurance as we had been caught on the river bank at Bingarra in an earlier Kombi after it had rained for a few days. Even 4WDs towing small vans had difficulty getting out. We did fit a locking diff to the Kombi after that which proved excellent. In the six years we have had the Sprinter I have only needed the 4WD option five times. In all cases it was great to have that option. We never go looking for muddy tracks but occasionally we manage to get on to one in our travels.
RoboLB said
08:22 AM Jul 17, 2022
IanSch wrote:
We opted for a 4WD Sprinter van when we purchased our motor home. This was basically as an insurance as we had been caught on the river bank at Bingarra in an earlier Kombi after it had rained for a few days. Even 4WDs towing small vans had difficulty getting out. We did fit a locking diff to the Kombi after that which proved excellent. In the six years we have had the Sprinter I have only needed the 4WD option five times. In all cases it was great to have that option. We never go looking for muddy tracks but occasionally we manage to get on to one in our travels.
Yes, for us it would be a 'nice to have' if we can find one. Seems there is an 18 month wait though. All about shortage of 'chips'.
The 2WD we have on order does have a feature that is not a diff lock, but by engaging it, it will reduce power to the wheel that is slipping and add more to the non slipping wheel.
Seems to help a bit.
Mike Harding said
08:50 AM Jul 17, 2022
I mentioned it in a previous post but did not give details:
Friends went on an extensive journey in a 2WD Falcon wagon. They had room to carry a Tirfor winch and they had the occasion to use it. Here are some links with some info:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VoodYb3vK0E Used here on a 4WD though.
RoboLB said
09:45 PM Jul 17, 2022
watsea wrote:
Friends went on an extensive journey in a 2WD Falcon wagon. They had room to carry a Tirfor winch and they had the occasion to use it. Here are some links with some info:
A great uncle was a rock hound & had a Holden HD utility. He told me a 4wd would help him get "further" up Agate Creek (FNQ) but generally all that was needed was good ground clearance.
RoboLB, get the vehicle that best suited where you need to go. One thing to remember is that a 4wd that is bogged takes a lot more effort to free it than a 2wd because it can go further in the soft stuff!
In the early 70s, a PMG technician stationed at Barrow Ck (north of Alice Springs) had a VW Kombi that he could drive in Palm Valley. He modified the body work, rear axle & bolted on an extra pair of wheels - sand driving was much easier. I'd guess such work today would be frowned upon!
RoboLB said
09:06 AM Jul 19, 2022
Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
RoboLB, get the vehicle that best suited where you need to go. One thing to remember is that a 4wd that is bogged takes a lot more effort to free it than a 2wd because it can go further in the soft stuff!
That's the key point I guess!
Think we'll stick with the 2WD we have on order.
That will get us to 99% of the places we want to go.
And anything else is not available anyway (new), for 18 months or more.
86GTS said
10:06 AM Jul 19, 2022
In late 2019 we hired a Mercedes powered motorhome to spend 3 weeks getting from Broome to Darwin. Along the way, branching off the main hwy was a bitumen road up to a lookout. It was only about 1km long but quite steep with many hairpin bends. We ran out of steam halfway up stalling on a tight hairpin bend with one front wheel suspended in fresh air. We restarted but couldn't get traction with only the other front wheel driving. It took us ages to reverse down the many bends to get to level ground. Lesson learnt, drive conservatively with a van & 4WD may have got us to the top.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Tuesday 19th of July 2022 11:17:22 AM
Trailer Sailer said
05:28 PM Jul 19, 2022
We went for AWD over two wheel drive as just so many out of the way places have slippery roads. I am not talking 4WD tracks but even just steep gravel driveways or grass can be a stopper. I had a front wheel drive motorhome in Europe for two years and even there we had our issues and some spectacular destinations had to be scrubbed. A local example after we purchased our new Isuzu AWD was when we turned into a private campground that had a steep gravel one lane entrance road. It even had an open sign on the main road but it wasnt and the gate was locked and no home was in sight. Obviously not a caravan suitable site but it was rated for motorhomes and slide ons. Backing out in two wheel drive just had the wheels spinning and is going nowhere. Fortunately a press of the AWD switch and then no problems whatsoever. It really depends on how adventurous you are and how much you like free camping which in my view is the principle joy of being self contained and escaping civilisation. Other are right in two wheel drive will get you nearly everywhere and 4WD for the cautious is perhaps overkill. One time getting stuck in a remote spot not thinking you were pushing the envelope however can change all that quickly. Just my two cents worth.
-- Edited by Trailer Sailer on Tuesday 19th of July 2022 05:30:06 PM
RoboLB said
09:59 PM Jul 19, 2022
Trailer Sailer wrote:
We went for AWD over two wheel drive as just so many out of the way places have slippery roads. I am not talking 4WD tracks but even just steep gravel driveways or grass can be a stopper. I had a front wheel drive motorhome in Europe for two years and even there we had our issues and some spectacular destinations had to be scrubbed. A local example after we purchased our new Isuzu AWD was when we turned into a private campground that had a steep gravel one lane entrance road. It even had an open sign on the main road but it wasnt and the gate was locked and no home was in sight. Obviously not a caravan suitable site but it was rated for motorhomes and slide ons. Backing out in two wheel drive just had the wheels spinning and is going nowhere. Fortunately a press of the AWD switch and then no problems whatsoever. It really depends on how adventurous you are and how much you like free camping which in my view is the principle joy of being self contained and escaping civilisation. Other are right in two wheel drive will get you nearly everywhere and 4WD for the cautious is perhaps overkill. One time getting stuck in a remote spot not thinking you were pushing the envelope however can change all that quickly. Just my two cents worth.
-- Edited by Trailer Sailer on Tuesday 19th of July 2022 05:30:06 PM
Thanks for sharing.
I reckon if I could change to an AWD I might.
But sadly recent enquiries show the waiting lists are 18 months plus.......
Too much can happen in that time health wise, money wise....
So at the moment I think we'll stick with the 2WD on order, and we might have found an older 2nd hand one to use in the interim.
Trailer Sailer said
11:59 AM Jul 21, 2022
Yes 18 months ago we had to fly from Sydney to Inverell to pick up the last Isuzu NLS AWD baby truck in NSW. It was $52,500 drive away at the time so definitely worth the effort. We camped with backpacks and hiking tents on a holiday on the way back which looked kind of ridiculous!
We're in the process of buying a campervan and having second thoughts about the drive train.
2WD v 4WD v AWD.
I'd really appreciate some thoughts from members.
To put things into context and as some background.
The Vehicle.
We are committed to a campervan (like avatar) rather than larger motorhome, camper trailer, caravan etc.
So rather than go into the pros and cons of each, it just suits our needs better.
And we prefer the LWB Merc Sprinter, Fiat Ducato, 'size'. rather smaller like a Hiace or slide-on, as it can fit a separate shower/toilet cubicle, permanent bed and small dinette.
The Use.
Day trips, Weekends, week long trips, and maybe now and then 2-3 week trips, mainly on East coast and into the country. Not 'laps'.
We like country / mountain landscapes more than beaches. So no beach driving planned. And prefer quieter remoter campsites.
Though 'madam' is not into total isolation when camping for fear of bears, wolves, zombies and all those things that go 'bump in the night'.
Yes....Very active imagination....
So to date (in hire van) we have enjoyed remote sites on lakesides, in wineries and on hill sides, where there were 2 or 3 other vans or a homestead in sight.
Hopefully you get the idea .....
Driving.
We like to drive..........and drive.......covering a fair bit of ground. Just overnighting at campsite. That's just us.
So we're mainly on the black top getting from A to B. Stopping in country towns along the way.
The only bits 'off' the back top........would be:
So not heading 'into the bush' or 'mud plugging' on 4WD only tracks.
It's a campervan after all. Just after a bit more 'traction' now and again.
That's probably it to be honest.
So we have a 2WD on order, and who knows when that will be ready......maybe 12 months if lucky.
Of course all this waiting time now has me planning trips, checking out camp sites of Wikicamps, watching endless YouTube videos on campervan types, other people's road trips........
And generally...............absorbing way too much information ! Because that overthinking now causes doubts.
We picked the campervan we picked (Avan Applause 600-2), because we like the layout, like the way it drives, it comes with lots of extras, and won't break the bank (it was cheaper than others).
But now I'm thinking.......
The 4WD or AWD would at least give us the ability to get off the black top a bit more if we saw places we wanted to visit etc etc.
Would also mean we didn't have to be quite so cautious in route planning and could include some unsealed roads (depending on condition).
For the sake of something to do on a nice weekend, we're heading out to look at the Jayco 'All Terrain' AWD Merc Sprinter.
Take 'All Terrain' with a prince of salt of course!
Wheel base, clearance and not 'true' 4WD just means it will handle unsealed roads and mild 'off road' with ease compared to a 2WD.
Under no illusion there......
as an aside. I am finally replacing my 23 year old car! No, I'm definitely not a rev head!
This car will hopefully last till I fall off the perch or they take my licence away!
We picked a Rav4 AWD Hybrid. (another 12 month wait)
Drives great. Reviews on drive train are good. And I like the idea of being able to handle forrest tracks a bit better on our country drives.
I guess that also got me thinking about 4WD or AWD for a Campervan.
Sorry for the ramble, but hopefully the context / background helps put things in perspective.
Any thoughts? Stick with the 2WD? "What the heck", go for the AWD?
It's a very personal choice of course. I get that.
But any perspectives from those much more experienced than I, which is all of you........will be more welcome food for thought.
Much appreciated
2WD or 4WD... ho hum...?
You have provided a good description of your intended use and I suspect 2WD would serve you well 98% of the time.
The other 2%, I am thinking, is for those final "few kilometers" to the campsite. If you look for a post from me about five weeks past you'll read how an unexpected 60mm of rain trapped me off-road for a couple of weeks and I was only about 3km from the bitumen. If the vehicle cannot get through it doesn't matter whether you're 100km or 1km into the bush. I guess that having 4WD got me out of this situation about one week earlier than had I had a 2WD.
I imagine 4WD will add, what, $8k to the purchase price? For your intended use I don't think that cost is justified. However what I would do on your 2WD vehicle is ensure it has rated tow points at the front and read (fit them if necessary) and purchase two 10m rated tow straps and four rated shackles - *DO NOT EVER* use shackles to join the tow straps - Google the correct way to do it. *DO NOT* purchase "snatch straps" just good old ordinary rated tow straps. Now, if you do get stuck, you have a fair chance of someone being able to give you a tow and often you only need towing a couple of metres to find traction. Buy a spade too. You could also purchase some MaxTracks or the like.
In reality you have to get out there and do it, make some mistakes, suffer a bit of grief, gain experience and find what works for you. When driving off-road *take your time*, if you come to an obstruction stop, get out and take a look at it, prod it with a stick, work out the best line to take and if you're not confident turn around and go somewhere else.
Most of all... have fun :)
Even my Land Rover Freelander is not a "proper" 4wd. I do carry 4 sand tracks (never had to use them surprisingly, but a bit on insurance/peace of mind nevertheless), snatch strap (only used as a tow rope to pull a truck bogged with 3 tonnes of roof tiles) 20 metre tow extension, (as pointed out NEVER joint tow ropes with shackles or you will end up like a Russian at the end of a Ukrainian howitzer!) You can get them from ARB & they come with clear instructions.
I would go as far as saying 99.99% of sealed & unsealed roads are perfectly ok with 2wd. It is often that last little bit that is an issue. Maybe just walking it for the sightseeing etc is a compromise & camp in an easier location.
A rear wheel 2wd drive will be a bit better than front 2wd as you will have your maximum payload when traveling. You can still let tyres down to help float the vehicle. Even some sand tracks under the rear wheels might just be enough, I would carry a tow rope & shackles like one would have jumper leads (the number of other cars I have jump started is ridiculous) at least you can ask for help which is normally forthcoming in a remote area.
We have slid off the road in western NSW from standing still. With a bit of water the dirt road is like a bar of soap. A 100 wheel drive car won't help!
Places like Francois Peron National Park & Purnulu NP you are required to have a 4wd.
You will use a bit more fuel with 4wd but you will get to a few more remote quiet locations which could be priceless.
The one thing I recommend is doing acoustic insulation, the foam also make great thermal insulation. It just makes driving so much more pleasurable.
https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65443581/car-acoustic-insulation/
Long Wheel Base (LWB)or Medium Wheel Base?
I have driven our LWB Sprinter along bush tracks with good outcomes except in one instance. Not paying attention in getting the best line thru a dry creek bed and going to slow the rear wheels dropped down and the towbar hit the ground and the rear wheels lost traction. Had to jack the rear of the sprinter up, insert tree branches and levelers under the wheels and dig out dirt under the towbar, B4 I could get out. ( A day later drove thru the same creek bed in the best route with no problems what so ever)
So an AWD maybe some benefit but is the ride height better.
In the creek situation above, less overhang of a MWB over a LWB probably would have got thru the creek without an issue, but I/we prefer the more room/space of a LWB vehicle.
I'd buy what YOU think is the best for YOUR needs.
We've owned a 4WD for 12 years & driven on many rough roads & tracks.
We've only needed to engage 4WD about three times.
We have a 4WD to get us OUT of trouble, not get us INTO trouble.
From experience I wouldn't fancy taking a Sprinter Bus UP Mt Oxley even though it's sort of ''sealed''.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Saturday 16th of July 2022 02:37:20 PM
Landy
Great advice. Many thanks Mike. We looked at a few vehicles today. Including the 2WD we have on order.
We're tending to think we still like the one on order.
Many thanks. More great perspectives and food for thought...
Both the AWD and 2WD are LWB. And the AWD does have improved ground clearance.
But as we found today, the AWD is not available for 14 months LOL
At our ages, a lot can happen in 14 months LOL.
Yes I get that. Hence my over thinking......
Many thanks. Kind of where my thinking is going.........
Good idea. A 2wd car can very quickly turn into a 0wd car with one wheel trying to launch itself. The diff lockers would give you actual 50/50 two wheel drive on poor surfaces.
Certainly another good thought!
Yes, for us it would be a 'nice to have' if we can find one. Seems there is an 18 month wait though. All about shortage of 'chips'.
The 2WD we have on order does have a feature that is not a diff lock, but by engaging it, it will reduce power to the wheel that is slipping and add more to the non slipping wheel.
Seems to help a bit.
I mentioned it in a previous post but did not give details:
Correct way to join two tow straps
Simple and smart !
Friends went on an extensive journey in a 2WD Falcon wagon. They had room to carry a Tirfor winch and they had the occasion to use it. Here are some links with some info:
https://www.specialisedforce.com.au/product/type/cable-tirfor-winch?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6PfGitv_-AIVH5hmAh0Y0geaEAAYBCAAEgJeJPD_BwE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VoodYb3vK0E Used here on a 4WD though.
Thanks.
I found this the other day:
https://youtu.be/trrEKbc6uqE
https://www.bushwinch.com/the-bush-winch-in-action/
RoboLB, get the vehicle that best suited where you need to go. One thing to remember is that a 4wd that is bogged takes a lot more effort to free it than a 2wd because it can go further in the soft stuff!
In the early 70s, a PMG technician stationed at Barrow Ck (north of Alice Springs) had a VW Kombi that he could drive in Palm Valley. He modified the body work, rear axle & bolted on an extra pair of wheels - sand driving was much easier. I'd guess such work today would be frowned upon!
That's the key point I guess!
Think we'll stick with the 2WD we have on order.
That will get us to 99% of the places we want to go.
And anything else is not available anyway (new), for 18 months or more.
In late 2019 we hired a Mercedes powered motorhome to spend 3 weeks getting from Broome to Darwin.
Along the way, branching off the main hwy was a bitumen road up to a lookout.
It was only about 1km long but quite steep with many hairpin bends.
We ran out of steam halfway up stalling on a tight hairpin bend with one front wheel suspended in fresh air.
We restarted but couldn't get traction with only the other front wheel driving.
It took us ages to reverse down the many bends to get to level ground.
Lesson learnt, drive conservatively with a van & 4WD may have got us to the top.
-- Edited by 86GTS on Tuesday 19th of July 2022 11:17:22 AM
We went for AWD over two wheel drive as just so many out of the way places have slippery roads. I am not talking 4WD tracks but even just steep gravel driveways or grass can be a stopper.
I had a front wheel drive motorhome in Europe for two years and even there we had our issues and some spectacular destinations had to be scrubbed.
A local example after we purchased our new Isuzu AWD was when we turned into a private campground that had a steep gravel one lane entrance road. It even had an open sign on the main road but it wasnt and the gate was locked and no home was in sight. Obviously not a caravan suitable site but it was rated for motorhomes and slide ons. Backing out in two wheel drive just had the wheels spinning and is going nowhere. Fortunately a press of the AWD switch and then no problems whatsoever.
It really depends on how adventurous you are and how much you like free camping which in my view is the principle joy of being self contained and escaping civilisation.
Other are right in two wheel drive will get you nearly everywhere and 4WD for the cautious is perhaps overkill. One time getting stuck in a remote spot not thinking you were pushing the envelope however can change all that quickly.
Just my two cents worth.
-- Edited by Trailer Sailer on Tuesday 19th of July 2022 05:30:06 PM
Thanks for sharing.
I reckon if I could change to an AWD I might.
But sadly recent enquiries show the waiting lists are 18 months plus.......
Too much can happen in that time health wise, money wise....
So at the moment I think we'll stick with the 2WD on order, and we might have found an older 2nd hand one to use in the interim.