Hi All

How to 'see' Australia in a Motorhome?

My wife and I have never towed, never motorhome toured but are looking at buying a motorhome, say around 24 to 25 footer, perhaps Merc based RWD. We are interested in regional and country areas, pay sites in parks with  beachside or other 'prime' locations, some built up tourist areas like Gold coast, Sunshine coast, Port Douglas; and National Parks. True outback or rugged locations, probably not (my Bear Grylls days, or perhaps Leyland Brother days are over.well, in truth, never existed, lol). We both can comfortably walk around 500m, a bit more in cities, and a bit less in bush. We are definitely not backpacking bush trail hikers!

The self-contained comfort of a motor home does appeal without the hassle and worry of towing and reversing a large-ish caravan (which our current SUV cannot do anyway). Campervans look just a bit cramped for us but would consider if it dramatically changes the answer to my mobility and access question below. .

My question relates to stopping/parking to 'see' places, towns en route as well as after you arrive at your destination park or camp (This is *not* about illegally  sleeping or camping overnight in street locations etc).

When en- route and unlike a car (which we are used to stopping regularly), I imagine you can't easily pull up anywhere to park a motorhome to have a coffee in a local cafe or see the sites, or even get supplies. Many towns seem to have angled parking or may have restrictions on parallel curb parking for long vehicles? When you arrive at a caravan park, similarly it can't be easy to 'pop' into town. For the latter at least, caravans have the advantage of being able to be unhitched.

I'm also guessing that only some National Parks have sealed or suitable road access and once on site, further exploring in a motorhome must be limited. People talk about 4wd access to things like waterfalls or longish hikes on foot.

Just wondering how experienced motor-homers approach this, how it shapes their journeys, and how they see and/or offset any compromises (that must be inherent in *any* choice of travel)

Cheers

David

I tow and live in a large-ish caravan so I certainly experience the parking problem but not the lack of local transport issue.

In regard to parking I simply accept that when I have the caravan in tow I'm going to have to generally park ~250m from the shops and walk, this is rarely an issue as I tend to only do small shopping runs when I'm in transit, one or two half filled bags perhaps.

For touring purposes (as opposed to living) I think a motorhome with a tow car is almost ideal. Something small and light (Hyundai Getz?) with front wheel drive so you can raise the front wheels on a tow frame and the car travels on free running rear wheels. However you have now put a 5m trailer on the back which has its own drawbacks.

Thanks for the insights Mike.

Yeh we also thought about the MH + baby car in tow, but as you say it adds its own complexity and cost.

I am rethinking Campervans but stunned by the price tags ...and even with a AWD 22' 23' sprinter I imagine it doesn't "fix' the parking issue, and the smallest FWD is about 20' I think.

Even thought of our 4wd SUV (tow capacity 2000kg, towball mass 200kg) towing a baby caravan, around 800 to 1200 tare weight, and staying in Park owned cabins from time to time.

Hi all; David great idear with the mobile home, with that size motorhome you may need to up grade your licence to a medium licence. I would check into this first. Parking may be a issue, as is shopping as most supermarkets may not have a area to park, Lots of parking for car and even those spaces are getting smaller all the time. When i lived in Mildura the local shopping complex only had 3 parking spaces for " big Rigs" and some times they were taken up with trucks making deliveries. One way would be to have a couple of fold up push bikes for going to the local shops. Fuel is going to be a issue as any one who travels in a small /large bus would tell you and the fuel consumption. Some of the buses drink diesel at around 20 Ltrs 100 Kms . At present diesel is around $2.00 per ltr so filling a large diesel tank can be costly.

I don't mean to be a spoil sport, and i don't want to burst you bubble and try and open your eyes and the forseable costs, good and bad.

Hi again David

I'm not sure how you're differentiating campervans and motorhomes: I think of a campervan as a Volkswagen Combi type vehicle whereas a motorhome, to me, is rather like a caravan with an engine ie. shower, toilet, fixed bed and proper cooking facilities.

I'd say campervans are fine for people of twenty something years who are full of energy and stupid :) For me, mid sixties, I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.

The points previously discussed are simply inherent issues with motorhomes; as mentioned bicycles may be a solution as may the new electric bikes?

Is a caravan definitely out of the question for you? I hitch and unhitch mine often and don't find it much of a chore - slightly annoying but not a chore.

Edit:

A thought: is a camper trailer of any interest? They range from very basic to quite sophisticated with prices to match?

My Ford Transit is 5.2mtrs long. Not sure what that is in Ft & Inches. But its small enough to fit into most carparks. My mobility is challenged as well. You can pull up almost anywhere that you can in a car. Its 3mtrs high so interior carparks can be an issue.

Cramped? Could be I suppose. Although I have regularly had 4 people around the table playing cards. It has two single beds that I leave made up. Or I can make the bed each night and sleep on a large queen. Send your partner up into one of the front seats when preparing dinner or generally moving around.

It has all the mod cons (including Shower & Toilet) (Small) Watch those elbows.

RWD. and it will go into some pretty rugged territory if you want to. Higher clearances than most.

I do not tow anything. It seems to be defeating the purpose of a motorhome somehow.

Good on fuel. About 10/100. A lot less than a 4WD towing a caravan. (Important these days)

Storage is an issue. Forget a generator or extra gas or fuel. But a good solar system will fix most of that.

Its has a manual six speed gear box. That worries some people.

After 210,000ks its still going strong and it has never had any major mechanical issues (touch wood). I make sure I have top roadside service cover and have it serviced frequently.

Its an ex rental.  Some people don't like that.  But I look at it this way.  The rental companies don't want to be dealing with breakdowns all the time so they inspect vehicles each time when they come back and they are usually well cleaned and serviced according to schedule.

valiant81 wrote:

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Hi all; David great idear with the mobile home, with that size motorhome you may need to up grade your licence to a medium licence. I would check into this first. Parking may be a issue, as is shopping as most supermarkets may not have a area to park, Lots of parking for car and even those spaces are getting smaller all the time. When i lived in Mildura the local shopping complex only had 3 parking spaces for " big Rigs" and some times they were taken up with trucks making deliveries. One way would be to have a couple of fold up push bikes for going to the local shops. Fuel is going to be a issue as any one who travels in a small /large bus would tell you and the fuel consumption. Some of the buses drink diesel at around 20 Ltrs 100 Kms . At present diesel is around $2.00 per ltr so filling a large diesel tank can be costly.

I don't mean to be a spoil sport, and i don't want to burst you bubble and try and open your eyes and the forseable costs, good and bad.

-- Edited by valiant81 on Monday 22nd of August 2022 01:46:29 PM

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 Thanks Valiant81.

Only the larger motorhomes need a licensee upgrade, so I am told. No need in the 20' to around 27' range. There was a 29' that needed additional licensing. Not sure whetehr it is length or gross mass but the samll to medium MH seem exempt.

From what I have read for a small to medium MH on a small truck cab chassis (not buses) the claim is around 12L per 100kms for diesel but "this will depend"

Really, parking is my greatest issue. We have done a great many road trips in a car here and abroad and the really nice thing about that is stopping where ever it takes your fancy. This is way more important when in places like Europe when driving for 4 hours might cross into 3 different countries lol, and so you do want the flexibility of pulling up multiple times, not sailing by.

Mike Harding wrote:

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Hi again David

I'm not sure how you're differentiating campervans and motorhomes: I think of a campervan as a Volkswagen Combi type vehicle whereas a motorhome, to me, is rather like a caravan with an engine ie. shower, toilet, fixed bed and proper cooking facilities.

I'd say campervans are fine for people of twenty something years who are full of energy and stupid :) For me, mid sixties, I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.

The points previously discussed are simply inherent issues with motorhomes; as mentioned bicycles may be a solution as may the new electric bikes?

Is a caravan definitely out of the question for you? I hitch and unhitch mine often and don't find it much of a chore - slightly annoying but not a chore.

Edit:

A thought: is a camper trailer of any interest? They range from very basic to quite sophisticated with prices to match?

-- Edited by Mike Harding on Monday 22nd of August 2022 02:25:51 PM

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 Hi Mike

we looked at trailer based campers like pop ups and outs but figured we might as well have a caravan. The trailer campers can get pretty heavy and often don't have toilets etc

My apologies for confusing terms. I too thought of "campervan" as only like a VW combi or toyota Hi Ace but some manufacturers make "campervans" based on a commercial van chassis like renault, or the merc sprinter. They then refer to their "Motorhomes" seemingly when based on the commercial truck cab chassis as opposed to van. So Merc makes a "sprinter model van and cab chassis.

Here is a Jayco campervan https://www.jayco.com.au/range/jayco-campervans/jayco-all-terrain-campervan

Just for fun here's a link to a paradise campervan https://paradisemotorhomes.com.au/our-motorhome-range/oasis-motorhome-2/ strating at around a cool $220,000 ?

Are We Lost wrote:

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David, from your comment "We both can comfortably walk around 500m" I suggest that bikes are probably not something you would want .. unless motorised. Of course that introduces more problems with extra weight to lift and for any bikes, where to store them.

I would agree with Mike's definition of the motorhome vs campervan. For me, motorhome means self contained, although I am not aware of any specific delineation. I think you will find that parking a motorhome/campervan is always easier than a vehicle towing a van. The typical van will take 2 full length parking spots, and sometimes in townships these are hard to find. Angle parking will often be size limited in which case not an option for either. Driving a motorhome is easier.

Perhaps you should be thinking about the journey vs the destination. Is ease of travel and setup more important than comfort and room to move when you are there? Do you see yourself moving regularly or more likely to stay put. If you are inside, what space and comforts would be necessary?

The motorhome will be easiest for travel and setup but more limited in available space to spread out. Smaller ones where you have a bed OR a table would get tiresome pretty soon. A camper trailer will be easiest to tow but take extra time to set up. A caravan is more of a pain to tow, but has more room, and you then have a separate vehicle for local travel to get a bottle of milk or explore the area. If you aim for drive through sites or freecamping you will often not need to detach.

Bear in mind, they all have several things in common: Connecting power, water and drainage, ramps if needed for levelling, coptional awning.

As you have never done this before, I suggest buying something inexpensive and use it for a while until you decide what matters to you. You may find the lifestyle is not for you. Once you have experienced it, then upgrade.

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 Thanks AWL, good points to ponder.

I will look into electric bikes

msg wrote:

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My Ford Transit is 5.2mtrs long. Not sure what that is in Ft & Inches. But its small enough to fit into most carparks. My mobility is challenged as well. You can pull up almost anywhere that you can in a car. Its 3mtrs high so interior carparks can be an issue.

Cramped? Could be I suppose. Although I have regularly had 4 people around the table playing cards. It has two single beds that I leave made up. Or I can make the bed each night and sleep on a large queen. Send your partner up into one of the front seats when preparing dinner or generally moving around.

It has all the mod cons (including Shower & Toilet) (Small) Watch those elbows.

RWD. and it will go into some pretty rugged territory if you want to. Higher clearances than most.

I do not tow anything. It seems to be defeating the purpose of a motorhome somehow.

Good on fuel. About 10/100. A lot less than a 4WD towing a caravan. (Important these days)

Storage is an issue. Forget a generator or extra gas or fuel. But a good solar system will fix most of that.

Its has a manual six speed gear box. That worries some people.

After 210,000ks its still going strong and it has never had any major mechanical issues (touch wood). I make sure I have top roadside service cover and have it serviced frequently.

Its an ex rental.  Some people don't like that.  But I look at it this way.  The rental companies don't want to be dealing with breakdowns all the time so they inspect vehicles each time when they come back and they are usually well cleaned and serviced according to schedule.

 

-- Edited by msg on Monday 22nd of August 2022 03:42:33 PM

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 Thanks msg, @ 5.2m (17') as you say that would fit into a regular car space of 5.4m long. I will take a look. I came across Ford transit on a north American site, didnt know they were available in Oz. Thanks

Our Mercedes Benz Sprinter, Campervan is Long Wheel Base 6.3m and high Roof. A longer wheel base and higher roof ( have seen one with a drop down bed0 are also available.
To me they drive like a car but need a bit more room in Supermarket car parks, so we may park in a side street. Have taken ours down bush tracks. Ours has the usual Toilet/Shower TV. Air Con etc etc. can also tow/launch our 1/2 cabin boat. Sleeping for 2 with seatbelts for 4 (ie + 2 grandchildren to a drive on beach for a park and swim in SA)

The Fiat Ducato LWB are similar but are Front Wheel Drive and are a bit wider than the Sprinter, some can sleep across the back, where as our seats converted to a bed for overnight are down the sides of the vehicle.

PeterInSa wrote:

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Our Mercedes Benz Sprinter, Campervan is Long Wheel Base 6.3m and high Roof. A longer wheel base and higher roof ( have seen one with a drop down bed0 are also available.
To me they drive like a car but need a bit more room in Supermarket car parks, so we may park in a side street. Have taken ours down bush tracks. Ours has the usual Toilet/Shower TV. Air Con etc etc. can also tow/launch our 1/2 cabin boat. Sleeping for 2 with seatbelts for 4 (ie + 2 grandchildren to a drive on beach for a park and swim in SA)

The Fiat Ducato LWB are similar but are Front Wheel Drive and are a bit wider than the Sprinter, some can sleep across the back, where as our seats converted to a bed for overnight are down the sides of the vehicle.

-- Edited by PeterInSa on Monday 22nd of August 2022 05:09:27 PM

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 Hi Peter

Thanks

The Sprinter is the van that has caught our eye and with a "north south" bedding arrangement like yours.

Parking in a side street would be fine for us most of the time in the sort of places we would explore (not cities).

In areas with marked car spaces is it permissible to take up more than one spot and/ or protrude out a bit further. I am thinking about half empty car parks etc where it may be feasible to do so without disturbing others but maybe you come back to find a parking ticket?

"taken down bush tracks" is interesting. Is it 2WD or AWD/4WD ?

Our Sprinter can fit into a Marked Parking spot (width) in a shopping centre. But I try to park well away from busy areas and take up 2 spots and park in the middle, this minimises adjacent car doors hitting the side of the Sprinter . Re the long wheel base, say at Macca's, I can back in, with the rear over a garden, very wide path or lawn so the front does not stick out any further than someone parked in a Twin Cab ute.

In parking ticket areas/streets, from memory our vehicle will just fit into one, but if someone parks in front and another behind we would have trouble getting out, so look for the last/first park in the area/street for a clear get out.

Re Bush tracks, ours is 2wd and normally look at the track for the best drive. However once when driving thru a dry creek... I did not, 1/2 way thru realised it was deeper than I thought and slowed down.... rear towbar hit the bank and back wheels were in the air. Used a small jack to jack the rear up at the towbar and the sprinter jack to jack each side up, placed caravan type Ramps on a bed of sticks, under each rear wheel and after 3 tries and more digging of dirt under the tow bar, with rubber left on the side of the dirt on the creek bank I reversed out. This exercise took nearly 2 hours on my own and was nearly dark when the Sprinter turned back to camp. Had water and coffee breaks to get over my annoyance at not being careful and to cool down and plan the get out..

Incidentally the following day, I went thru the same creek taking the correct line , No problems No worries and No Bumps.

Sprinters have a very good support Forum in Oz, for ideas on modifications, repairs, best tyres etc etc.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?forums/91/

Re Tony Bev's comment below.... Long Term Camping, we use the Sprinter for Short Trips, plus one or 2 weeks away, have been to CMCA Rallies and away for 1 month a couple of times also. For a 2 month trip would take our 21'6" Traveller caravan, more room for us and our dog..

-- Edited by PeterInSa on Monday 22nd of August 2022 08:35:50 PM

msg wrote:

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Few and far between these days. Have a look at KEA Rental Motorhomes. Though they seem to have shifted to Mercs in the last few years. Don't dismis Hiaces etc. If they have the right fitout they will be fine.

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 We loved hiring a Mercedes Benz powered KEA Motorhome for 25 days & traveling from Broome to Darwin thru the Kimberley region.

They are a great unit, smooth & economical, much easier than towing our caravan around for 12 years (120,000+ kms).

My wife did all the driving which was a nice change for me.

Don't overrate 4WD in your context: unless it has decent AT or mud tyres (which you probably don't want) a 4WD is only marginally more capable than a 2WD in the situations you are likely to encounter.

Having said that I tow my caravan with a low range 4WD but I do tend to go into places most probably wouldn't and, even then, there has only been one occasion I have needed the 4WD in anger.

Having done much serious solo remote area 4WDing over the years I consider that when deciding whether to tackle a particular track cowardice is a much underrated virtue :) 

My solution is a 30 foot motor home and car flat towed behind. Takes about 2 minutes to unhook and buzz off in car to look around. Been motor homing since 2007. Before that we had a caravan but found the problem being full, time on the road is not enough weight allowance in caravan. You will run jnto same problem with a motor home to drive on a car licence, 4.5 tonne. Most of those motorhomes can have option to be upgraded to 5 or 5.5 tonne, which means you need a light rigid drivers licence, just requires a driving test.

You will need to do research on towing capacities on your proposed motor home and what car can be flat towed. As far as i am aware Suzuki grand Vitara are the only one to legally flat tow, but not all models. If you have the towing capacity and /or a light enough car you could have a light car trailer. Since we srarted flat towing I have discovered some light tilt trailers that if I change cars will be looking at one of these trailers.  Our motor home is 6.9 tone but only 1.8 tonne towing capacity. 

It at first it appears a mine field  but just fully reach regulations for your state and  capacities of motor home, trailer and car. Before you order any vehicle. It will finally make sense. 

Neil 

Hi David 

I too have a Sprinter ex bus. Same size as Peter's long and high. We find that once you leave the big cities the parking is not critical. You can usually find a place near the shops and often in the car parks. Even in Maccas and similar we can park as Peter described with the rear overhang over the grass or near the footpath so the front is out no longer than a big 4WD. 

We like to go the hard way around, often free camp, so do a bit of dirt roads and minor tracks. Never been stuck because I look first and back out if dodgey. The Sprinter is rear wheel drive and I try to load it so the back is the heaviest end for good traction. We also have a lightweight fit out and separate N/S beds. Recently I asked about a forest road and a guy said no way that is 4WD only. We studied the map and just went. Gees nothing there that needed any worry at all, just a steady speed. And we beat a group of motorcycles to the pub at the other end. They had a puncture ??  

Interestingly we often free camp in towns along the coast and in Sydney inner city suburbs. Went down there for VIVID and parked near a suburban park only 10mins from the city by bus. Never had a problem finding a spot and never been moved on. A big bus in not so easy but much more room. 

Jaahn     

woolman wrote:

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My solution is a 30 foot motor home and car flat towed behind. Takes about 2 minutes to unhook and buzz off in car to look around. Been motor homing since 2007. Before that we had a caravan but found the problem being full, time on the road is not enough weight allowance in caravan. You will run jnto same problem with a motor home to drive on a car licence, 4.5 tonne. Most of those motorhomes can have option to be upgraded to 5 or 5.5 tonne, which means you need a light rigid drivers licence, just requires a driving test.

You will need to do research on towing capacities on your proposed motor home and what car can be flat towed. As far as i am aware Suzuki grand Vitara are the only one to legally flat tow, but not all models. If you have the towing capacity and /or a light enough car you could have a light car trailer. Since we srarted flat towing I have discovered some light tilt trailers that if I change cars will be looking at one of these trailers.  Our motor home is 6.9 tone but only 1.8 tonne towing capacity. 

It at first it appears a mine field  but just fully reach regulations for your state and  capacities of motor home, trailer and car. Before you order any vehicle. It will finally make sense. 

 

Neil 

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 Thanks Neil

Yeh I think if I was a full timer then that sounds about right for what I'd be planning to do, or at least wanting to try. I didn't know that the Vitara was the only one that could be flat towed or for that matter that there were specific rules beyond overall towing capacity and GCM. Thanks for heads up.

Hey Jaahn

Ok good to hear that your LWB sprinter is not a drama for parking outside the cities. Our goal would not to be limited to the "destination" as in sitting around a caravan park for days and then to move on to the next caravan park! I know there are some parks by the beach and/or walking distance to cafe's etc but in general we would want to explore a bit more and not just where we could park.Funny story about previously living in Sydney and deciding to head out to a restaurant. As I was driving my wife would say where are you heading? I would answer "i'll tell as soon as I find a place to park!" Sydney had plenty of great restaurants so it was more critical to snatch a car space first and then explore where to eat. We live in a rural area now and every journey is literally a drive in the country, parking is just not a problem most of the time in a standard car.

Thanks for the reassurance about off bitumen driving.I am now more confident that we would be okay on the type of roads we would choose to travel. Having been a large-ish (non trailerable) boat owner for many years in the past I am very cautious about where and how I drive large objects. I remember once running aground on a large sand bar with moments before other boaties frantically waving at us. I cheerfully waved back thinking what friendly folks around here, not realizing they were trying to warn us to STOP. I think I recall saying to my wife just before we came to an abrupt halt, "see, I told you people would notice us in our new boat"

Any issues re parking a motorhome to shop are really not a big deal except in larger towns where height restrictions in multi storey car parks can be problematic. Once away from the big towns there are always options. Shopping before camping becomes second nature.

The real problem is the walking. So many of the myriad of natural attractions in Australia involve parking & walking. However for those unable to do so there are options. Most 'lookouts' can be driven to. However I think the real attraction of a motorhome is the ability to camp at/wake up in many natural places, rather than visiting them & needing to return to a caravan park somewhere, but to achieve this then I would suggest that 4wd & self contained is very worthwhile. Not to do any 'hardcore off-roading', but rather to give you the confidence to turn down that little track along a riverside or around a lake to a spot where you can wake up in nature. Often these spots may only be 500m from where all the others are camped. They may be the one nighters, just passing through, but the peace & serenity you gain by going just that little bit further means that often you will find yourself in spots enjoyable enough to stay for multiple nights. Providing of course that you enjoy nature.

There is of course plenty to see if you never leave bitumen, but it wouldn't be for me. Too often I have listened to the disappointment in people's voices "I wish we had done this when we were still able to walk rather than just look from a distance".

What I am suggesting (as someone who cannot walk/climb/ rock-hop as I could just 10 years ago) is that having a vehicle which allows you to get to many places where you can stay & enjoy, which many could not get to without walking because their vehicle is unsuitable is one way of being less restricted by physical abilities. Just park, listen to the birds, throw a line in, get the camera out, binoculars by your side etc etc.

There are compromises with any choice, the major ones often being between comfort/convenience on one hand, & accessibility on the other. Basically the longer & higher the vehicle the less places you can take it. The key is making the choice which is right for you. If I were to offer any advice it would be to choose the smallest that you could find acceptable.

We sat in our armchairs & watched the hollow, knowing she was in there. We could hear her calling, the 'bring me food' call. When passing males called back to her she popped her head out hopefully. 

-- Edited by Cuppa on Thursday 25th of August 2022 09:01:48 AM

Thank You Cuppa, I enjoyed reading your post as well as finding it very helpful! I think you have really captured where we are at and what we were looking at hoping to achieve.

I am becoming more and more confident that parking in a small wheelbase motorhome, something like the shorter wheelbase version Mercedes sprinter at 6 m Length overall, will not be a drama in most of the places we will need to pull up. Having done countless car trips in the past involving motels and built-up areas, I see the main attraction of motorhome or caravan option as being able to stay self-contained in nature within the national parks. I mentioned before about being a boatie and likewise there is something magical about being immersed / surrounded by nature but in the relative comfort and safety of a large boat (or motorhome). We do not at all envisage buying a heavy duty four-wheel-drive equipped with snorkel and winch and heading off into the wilderness. I was fascinated watching the Leyland brothers many years ago but didn't want to be them. I can absolutely see the appeal for many but even if it did appeal it is beyond our physical abilities.

You strike the right chord when you said being able to journey just that little bit further from the mainstream camping areas within national parks. That's pretty much what we would want to achieve for a couple of nights here and there. And to do it whilst we are fit enough to enjoy it.

Nice photo by the way, you captured the moment. I am also an enthusiast photographer and currently use a mirror-less Sony with various lenses. I have done a lot of street photography and landscapes, city attractions, night scapes et cetera. I have started to use a longer lens for nature photography and have just started to look at astrophotography. Similarly, I have recently started looking into the world of macro photography. Both these things would lend themselves quite well to national parks stays.

What sort of vehicle do you have at the moment that ticks the boxes for what you want?