Question from soon to be nomad. Some sit descriptions include specific tasks to be done - which is fine. Others more vague. How to people tackle this so that "scope creep" is avoided and you end up being overloaded with stuff you didn't know about up front?
deverall11 said
04:06 PM Oct 1, 2022
Having done a fair bit of sitting, we concluded that the easiest ones were the ones whereby the owner left
a written list of tasks. When to do it, basic how to do it and so on. Plus a handover from the owner.
Some expect a lot (too much), some are happy to have someone there so it doesn't look empty. Some
who expect a lot feel they need to get their 'value' from you. We soon learned they are the ones to
stay away from. Be also aware some will have 'spies' keeping an eye on what you do or what you have
been asked to do. Once again, you read the signs and stay away. There are plenty of options so it's
not as if you're going to miss out.
Try to get feedback from those who have been there before you. In the same way, we provided
contacts of previous sits as reference.
Good luck.
Possum3 said
04:07 PM Oct 1, 2022
G'day OKA, one of the regular GN's posted an item today, see; Blog Post
Cuppa & MrsTea - ABC Radio interview Permalink Reply Quote
A brief new post to share the short interview about our travelling lifestyle on ABC North Queensland this afternoon.
-- Edited by Possum3 on Saturday 1st of October 2022 04:08:39 PM
Mike Harding said
04:18 PM Oct 1, 2022
Just like every other contract... in writing.
I've only done one house sitting and that was for a friend but if I were to do a formal one I would conduct all the significant negotiation by email and I would ensure I produced a simple, pain, clear statement of responsibility ie.
Owner will:
depart X and return Y
Leave sufficient animal food
Provide all utilities free of charge
Indemnify sitter for vet fees or property emergency repairs to a maximum of $2000
And so on....
Sitter will:
Apply his best efforts to take good care of property and animals
Live at property for duration of sit without undue absence
Other than normal socialising not entertain others at the property
And so on.
Bat something like that back and forth between you a few times and you'll both soon have an idea of who's doing what.
Perhaps give them dates or version numbers, or both, and ensure two paper copies of the final agreement are signed by both sitter and owner.
OKA said
06:44 PM Oct 1, 2022
thanks for replies - seems more of a common sense seat of the pants thing which is probably what I had thought. I did think of a written agreement and double thought that as being a bit formal...anyhoo all feedback is good so thanks :)
-- Edited by OKA on Saturday 1st of October 2022 06:45:12 PM
Mike Harding said
06:59 PM Oct 1, 2022
A written agreement is only "a bit formal" until something goes wrong.
Ivan 01 said
07:45 PM Oct 1, 2022
Four years before we retired my wife and I sat a property for a month while the owners took a break.
We were invited to spend a weekend on the property in our camper about three weeks before our services were required.
During this weekend we completely covered all required tasks so we all knew what was expected. We had a bbq and were shown the ropes so to speak.
Our sit went without incident and I am still friends with them today although since the passing of my wife and my cancer I have declined two requests to look after things for them.
No money changed hands with our deal and a gentlemans handshake was the working contract.
OKA said
07:59 PM Oct 1, 2022
yes I would hope and expect some sits will be on a handshake basis and that's good to hear.
I guess I was interested to hear also the opposite :)
Just for experience of others.
Thanks for your input too.
the rocket said
04:18 PM Oct 2, 2022
Have done some housesits. You will soon get a feel of the sit when you go for interview.
we only do sits now for family but we have done others. all have been great, except one. Hereis a few.
1. look after house, hose garden, mow yard, pick rosellas and pip and freeze. 6 weeks.
2. look after house. 5 weeks.
3. Look after house, feed dog and take for walks. We voluntarily mowed yard and tackled the weeds in garden as lady was elderly. Was good.
4. feed dog and throw ball with dog. 5. feed dog, look after house. Could not fit caravan on site so paid for storage ourselves. Arrived at correct time to be told friend is coming over, come back in 2 hours well we did that but that only left 30 minutes for us to get the rundown of the place and they were off to catch a plane. Would not give us keys to house and would only give us remote control for garage door. i fell while doing this and hurt myself. good sit apart from the people.
one we did not take. Interview. farm, both male and female working fulltime outside farm. I want you to 4 feed horses morning and night, feed cattle by putting 100 kg hay bale on ute and driving it to them in paddock every day, turn water on and off twice daily, drive ute to water tap. Feed and care for 2 dogs, turn houseyard sprinkler on 3pm and move around houseyard every 15 minutes every day, check on 10 poddies and cant remember what had to b done there, weed the vegie garden, look after chooks but dont feed to much like the last sitter, saying chicken food is expensive, i lost it there and then. Also asked if we would be running our electric airconditioner in caravan in january qld. Electricity is expensive. Basically it was a full time job and we would have trouble just going out and buying groceries. I was gobsmacked. They neededa manager not a Housesitter.
basically, a house sit to me is only worth the rent i save on staying in a showground per Week.
Basically, just use ya nouce And decide what you are willing to do or not do. bottom line, majority were great sits. Enjoy.
-- Edited by the rocket on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 04:18:58 PM
OKA said
05:45 PM Oct 2, 2022
Thanks Rocket good to hear from experiences good and not so good - thanks for posting :)
Cuppa said
08:36 PM Oct 2, 2022
Talk to the owners - some folk seem to prefer not to in case the answers aren't what they want to hear. We have been told several times by owners that we have asked a lot more than previous sitters they have had , & then gone on to tell us that they liked us doing so as it reassured them that we were genuine about wanting to meet their needs. Conversely it also gives us an opportunity to tell owners if we are not comfortable about anything.
An example from last year. I made it clear that 'I'll do what I can, but I am limited by a bad back so wont be doing anything involving heavy lifting. The response I got was "Yep, we're all getting older & have to be more careful, but generally there are easier ways of doing things when there is no need to rush" . The front end loader on the tractor was put to good use!
One thing we have learned is that there are some pretty strange folk out there, & that it is a mistake to assume that 'doing the right thing' will see you right. After 5 years we are still learning to trust our gut feelings & to recognise any 'warning bells' sounding in our ears.
We are clear that we do not expect any payment, but rather an 'arrangement of mutual benefit'. What this means in practice varies, but we are upfront about preferring to potter rather than having a full time job. In more recent times we have found sits/caretaker roles which have been 'cost neutral'. We have not needed to use our own funds to purchase food or fuel since last September & don't expect to until next May. We have a modest income from renting out our home & as a result have had experiences we wanted & at the same time have seen our bank balance rise slowly. Arrangements like this are more common the further from 'civilisation' you are. Most times sitting in towns accomodation, power, water, internet & tv are what is on offer.
For us house-sitting/caretaking is primarily finding more immersive experiences not available to travellers passing through. Right now we are living in comfort in a modern house, on an 800 acre property in the middle of the Iron Range Rainforest on Cape York. Not the sort of opportunity which many get to experience! We have also sought situations to put a roof over our head in wet season conditions but this one is different - they were seeking 2 or 3 months but we offered them 12 months which was accepted. We didn't set out to be sitters, but discovered the value of experiencing unfamiliar country across seasons. Taking the view that we are seeking experiences not jobs means we can always avoid those situations where there is a sense of folk wanting to exploit, where the balance doesn't feel right. We aim to finish sits as friends rather than ex-employees.
We have never had a written agreement (but would not be averse to one) , but we have had several places where folk have had previous sitters/caretakers & have put together a caretakers/sitters handbook, & have helped owners to put one together for future sitters too. We have one here - looks a lot on first read, but reality is it was put together for the 'lowest common denominator' after some poor 'didn't do a thing' caretaker experiences. Mostly it's common sense & where expectations are, for example' 'Clean XYZ once a week', having now built up trust between us & the owners we are all happy with just 'keep it clean' .
As a general rule there has, in our experience, been a correlation between the amount of discussion prior to the sit (phone & email as well as face to face), having channels of contact during the sit, (we send a weekly email report here, or phone if anything is more pressing) and everyone being happy because we are all on the same page.
Always take photos of the place as soon as the owners leave. It really helps to ensure that everything looks as they left it when they return, as well as providing a little 'insurance' should you be unlucky enough to get an owner who accuses you of 'leaving that mark' or whatever. We've never had that but have read of some who have.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 08:40:41 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 08:58:18 PM
Cuppa said
09:28 PM Oct 2, 2022
This may be too soon for you - if we weren't already committed I think we'd be all over this. A wet season in the middle of Wandjina country!
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 09:29:00 PM
Question from soon to be nomad. Some sit descriptions include specific tasks to be done - which is fine. Others more vague. How to people tackle this so that "scope creep" is avoided and you end up being overloaded with stuff you didn't know about up front?
a written list of tasks. When to do it, basic how to do it and so on. Plus a handover from the owner.
Some expect a lot (too much), some are happy to have someone there so it doesn't look empty. Some
who expect a lot feel they need to get their 'value' from you. We soon learned they are the ones to
stay away from. Be also aware some will have 'spies' keeping an eye on what you do or what you have
been asked to do. Once again, you read the signs and stay away. There are plenty of options so it's
not as if you're going to miss out.
Try to get feedback from those who have been there before you. In the same way, we provided
contacts of previous sits as reference.
Good luck.
G'day OKA, one of the regular GN's posted an item today, see; Blog Post
Cuppa & MrsTea - ABC Radio interview
Permalink Reply Quote
A brief new post to share the short interview about our travelling lifestyle on ABC North Queensland this afternoon.
-- Edited by Possum3 on Saturday 1st of October 2022 04:08:39 PM
Just like every other contract... in writing.
I've only done one house sitting and that was for a friend but if I were to do a formal one I would conduct all the significant negotiation by email and I would ensure I produced a simple, pain, clear statement of responsibility ie.
Owner will:
depart X and return Y
Leave sufficient animal food
Provide all utilities free of charge
Indemnify sitter for vet fees or property emergency repairs to a maximum of $2000
And so on....
Sitter will:
Apply his best efforts to take good care of property and animals
Live at property for duration of sit without undue absence
Other than normal socialising not entertain others at the property
And so on.
Bat something like that back and forth between you a few times and you'll both soon have an idea of who's doing what.
Perhaps give them dates or version numbers, or both, and ensure two paper copies of the final agreement are signed by both sitter and owner.
thanks for replies - seems more of a common sense seat of the pants thing which is probably what I had thought. I did think of a written agreement and double thought that as being a bit formal...anyhoo all feedback is good so thanks :)
-- Edited by OKA on Saturday 1st of October 2022 06:45:12 PM
A written agreement is only "a bit formal" until something goes wrong.
We were invited to spend a weekend on the property in our camper about three weeks before our services were required.
During this weekend we completely covered all required tasks so we all knew what was expected. We had a bbq and were shown the ropes so to speak.
Our sit went without incident and I am still friends with them today although since the passing of my wife and my cancer I have declined two requests to look after things for them.
No money changed hands with our deal and a gentlemans handshake was the working contract.
yes I would hope and expect some sits will be on a handshake basis and that's good to hear.
I guess I was interested to hear also the opposite :)
Just for experience of others.
Thanks for your input too.
Have done some housesits. You will soon get a feel of the sit when you go for interview.
we only do sits now for family but we have done others.
all have been great, except one. Hereis a few.
1. look after house, hose garden, mow yard, pick rosellas and pip and freeze. 6 weeks.
2. look after house. 5 weeks.
3. Look after house, feed dog and take for walks. We voluntarily mowed yard and tackled the weeds in garden as lady was elderly. Was good.
4. feed dog and throw ball with dog.
5. feed dog, look after house. Could not fit caravan on site so paid for storage ourselves. Arrived at correct time to be told friend is coming over, come back in 2 hours well we did that but that only left 30 minutes for us to get the rundown of the place and they were off to catch a plane. Would not give us keys to house and would only give us remote control for garage door. i fell while doing this and hurt myself. good sit apart from the people.
one we did not take. Interview. farm, both male and female working fulltime outside farm. I want you to 4 feed horses morning and night, feed cattle by putting 100 kg hay bale on ute and driving it to them in paddock every day, turn water on and off twice daily, drive ute to water tap. Feed and care for 2 dogs, turn houseyard sprinkler on 3pm and move around houseyard every 15 minutes every day, check on 10 poddies and cant remember what had to b done there, weed the vegie garden, look after chooks but dont feed to much like the last sitter, saying chicken food is expensive, i lost it there and then. Also asked if we would be running our electric airconditioner in caravan in january qld. Electricity is expensive. Basically it was a full time job and we would have trouble just going out and buying groceries. I was gobsmacked. They neededa manager not a Housesitter.
basically, a house sit to me is only worth the rent i save on staying in a showground per Week.
Basically, just use ya nouce And decide what you are willing to do or not do.
bottom line, majority were great sits. Enjoy.
-- Edited by the rocket on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 04:18:58 PM
Thanks Rocket good to hear from experiences good and not so good - thanks for posting :)
Talk to the owners - some folk seem to prefer not to in case the answers aren't what they want to hear. We have been told several times by owners that we have asked a lot more than previous sitters they have had , & then gone on to tell us that they liked us doing so as it reassured them that we were genuine about wanting to meet their needs. Conversely it also gives us an opportunity to tell owners if we are not comfortable about anything.
An example from last year. I made it clear that 'I'll do what I can, but I am limited by a bad back so wont be doing anything involving heavy lifting. The response I got was "Yep, we're all getting older & have to be more careful, but generally there are easier ways of doing things when there is no need to rush" . The front end loader on the tractor was put to good use!
One thing we have learned is that there are some pretty strange folk out there, & that it is a mistake to assume that 'doing the right thing' will see you right. After 5 years we are still learning to trust our gut feelings & to recognise any 'warning bells' sounding in our ears.
We are clear that we do not expect any payment, but rather an 'arrangement of mutual benefit'. What this means in practice varies, but we are upfront about preferring to potter rather than having a full time job. In more recent times we have found sits/caretaker roles which have been 'cost neutral'. We have not needed to use our own funds to purchase food or fuel since last September & don't expect to until next May. We have a modest income from renting out our home & as a result have had experiences we wanted & at the same time have seen our bank balance rise slowly. Arrangements like this are more common the further from 'civilisation' you are. Most times sitting in towns accomodation, power, water, internet & tv are what is on offer.
For us house-sitting/caretaking is primarily finding more immersive experiences not available to travellers passing through. Right now we are living in comfort in a modern house, on an 800 acre property in the middle of the Iron Range Rainforest on Cape York. Not the sort of opportunity which many get to experience! We have also sought situations to put a roof over our head in wet season conditions but this one is different - they were seeking 2 or 3 months but we offered them 12 months which was accepted. We didn't set out to be sitters, but discovered the value of experiencing unfamiliar country across seasons. Taking the view that we are seeking experiences not jobs means we can always avoid those situations where there is a sense of folk wanting to exploit, where the balance doesn't feel right. We aim to finish sits as friends rather than ex-employees.
We have never had a written agreement (but would not be averse to one) , but we have had several places where folk have had previous sitters/caretakers & have put together a caretakers/sitters handbook, & have helped owners to put one together for future sitters too. We have one here - looks a lot on first read, but reality is it was put together for the 'lowest common denominator' after some poor 'didn't do a thing' caretaker experiences. Mostly it's common sense & where expectations are, for example' 'Clean XYZ once a week', having now built up trust between us & the owners we are all happy with just 'keep it clean' .
As a general rule there has, in our experience, been a correlation between the amount of discussion prior to the sit (phone & email as well as face to face), having channels of contact during the sit, (we send a weekly email report here, or phone if anything is more pressing) and everyone being happy because we are all on the same page.
Always take photos of the place as soon as the owners leave. It really helps to ensure that everything looks as they left it when they return, as well as providing a little 'insurance' should you be unlucky enough to get an owner who accuses you of 'leaving that mark' or whatever. We've never had that but have read of some who have.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 08:40:41 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 08:58:18 PM
This may be too soon for you - if we weren't already committed I think we'd be all over this. A wet season in the middle of Wandjina country!
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 09:29:00 PM
Thanks for your thorough and considered reply Cuppa, most helpful.
Our plans for when we get moving (March 2023) seem similar to your reality.
We're keen to stay on large-ish remote-ish places for as long as we enjoy it and working a bit seems natural.
And like you we intend renting out our place in Manly (NSW) to somewhat fund the trip - or at leave not be dipping too much into the super slush fund.
Skills-wise I've been gathering a few 'tickets' such as an MR license, chainsaw/felling ticket, forklift ticket, and brushing up my welding skills.
Bit of a bummer that we're in a complicated federation for I can't travel with my rifles but I'm also a keen feral pest shooter, ah well....
Thanks again for your input :)