How much solar and lithium batteries would we need to run aircon in Campervan?
currently have 2 x 200w panels 2000w inverter with 2 x 120ah AGM batteries
also is it difficult to switch over the batteries and how do we determine lithium quality as our installer said all lithium is not the same quality
-- Edited by maids on Saturday 7th of January 2023 01:27:30 PM
Mike Harding said
01:15 PM Jan 7, 2023
I thought "Sola" was a fizzy drink in a can?
Can one run an air conditioner from fizzy drinks? Where would you connect the wires?
maids said
01:27 PM Jan 7, 2023
Mike Harding wrote:
I thought "Sola" was a fizzy drink in a can?
Can one run an air conditioner from fizzy drinks? Where would you connect the wires?
OK SPELLING MISTAKE CORRECTED
Whenarewethere said
01:35 PM Jan 7, 2023
Mike Harding wrote:
I thought "Sola" was a fizzy drink in a can?
Can one run an air conditioner from fizzy drinks? Where would you connect the wires?
I can make Sola fizzy, you just need multiple air compressors, but having solaR allows you to do it off grid. I can even charge my Sola UPS & make a coffee with Sola machine.
Whenarewethere said
01:47 PM Jan 7, 2023
As far as solaR & air conditioning it is easy off grid & possible without generator.
Plenty of solaR.
About 600AH of batteries.
Mitsubishi or similar split system 2.5kW air conditioning (not the uneconomical roof standard caravan system).
Run AC, after first 20 minutes switch to economy or low setting mode & it is economical to run.
These are the basics.
A number of people here have done it.
Whenarewethere said
02:09 PM Jan 7, 2023
The is a Daikin 2.5kW split system installed about 2015.
Looking at the numbers it is very feasible to run off a good battery & solaR setup.
talking about the caravan AC it is a small aircommand
would we need a bigger inverter
Mike Harding said
02:20 PM Jan 7, 2023
Interesting.
So it's drawing about 600W but once down to temperature let's say it's cycling at about 50% so drawing 300W (effectively). Therefore use for five hours would be around 2kWh which makes it do-able with around 5kWh hours of battery and lots of fizzy drink. Emmmmm....
maids said
02:30 PM Jan 7, 2023
all very confusing as it looks like most here are only interested in my spelling mistake for which I corrected SO SORRY
how many SOLAR panels ??
how big an inverter?
how many batteries and what sort?
Mike Harding said
02:39 PM Jan 7, 2023
No. You have been deliberately misspelling solar as "Sola" for quite some time and it's irritating.
Running an AC from batteries is complex and expensive and takes considerable knowledge regarding installation. I suspect it is not an area you wish to venture into, perhaps purchase a 2kW Honda or Yamaha generator instead... or some fans....
maids said
03:01 PM Jan 7, 2023
God help us all if you find that irritating
Cuppa said
03:02 PM Jan 7, 2023
The few people I know who are using solar & batteries to run air con in RV's have a minimum of 600Ah of lithium batteries, 1000w or 1200w plus of Solar panels plus engine charging.
Reality is even if you wanted to spend the significant sums of money to achieve this, you would not have sufficient 'real estate' to install it all in & on your vehicle.
maids said
03:04 PM Jan 7, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
The few people I know who are using solar & batteries to run air con in RV's have a minimum of 600Ah of lithium batteries, 1000w or 1200w plus of Solar panels plus engine charging.
Reality is even if you wanted to spend the significant sums of money to achieve this, you would not have sufficient 'real estate' to install it all in & on your vehicle.
That makes perfect sense Thank you
Whenarewethere said
03:46 PM Jan 7, 2023
The problem with a basic, especially unnecessary spelling issues, is for the people who do a Search, then the topic discussed won't show up.
Not shoving an R on the end of a word buggers up the thread up for future reference.
maids said
04:34 PM Jan 7, 2023
Whenarewethere wrote:
The problem with a basic, especially unnecessary spelling issues, is for the people who do a Search, then the topic discussed won't show up.
Not shoving an R on the end of a word buggers up the thread up for future reference.
I corrected the post after the first reply
If I could remove the post I would
TimTim said
08:22 PM Jan 7, 2023
maids wrote:
How much solar and lithium batteries would we need to run aircon in Campervan?
currently have 2 x 200w panels 2000w inverter with 2 x 120ah AGM batteries
also is it difficult to switch over the batteries and how do we determine lithium quality as our installer said all lithium is not the same quality
-- Edited by maids on Saturday 7th of January 2023 01:27:30 PM
Hi Maids,
Firstly I will address the all lithium is not the same quality. A great source of information is the https://diysolarforum.com/ but in short, from my reading of the wealth of information by people that buy LiFePO4 cells to make batteries, the cells are primarily made for the EV industry. Cells that do not quite make specification are then sold on. These cells are perfectly suitable for storage solutions hence battery manufacturers buy them to produce the numerous batteries on the market and people like myself and many other also buy the cells to make our own batteries.
One knowledgeable poster on that forum has given a great description on the three main grades of cells but people selling the cells will label them as A++, A+ or A to try and sell more, but instead using that terminology I will just explain the three main groups. Group 1 being the EV grade that make specification and if you wish to buy them then expect to pay upwards of 3x the price. Group 2 are the cells that do not quite make EV specification but are suitable for power storage and are sold on to battery manufacturers and cell resellers. Group 3 are the cells with some very noticeable defects and there are many dodgy sellers selling those. We wont talk about Group 4 .
Ok, so all the different batteries that you see around, whether you pay $700 or $1700, the cells inside are generally of similar quality but then there is the BMS inside which can vary in quality. There may be a few battery manufacturers that have been selling cheap batteries using Group 3 cells but they dont seem to last long.
Here is one battery that in all probability assembled with Group 3 or maybe even Group 4 cells but the seller in all probability had no idea what was inside.
If you do buy LiFePO4 batteries then good luck with the brand you choose. It appears that there are many that are satisfied with their less expensive batteries.
Ok now to your AC, what make and model AC do you have so I can find the specifications. Some have a large power draw on start up. I recently did a test with my Ibis 4. This is what I posted for someone recently who wanted to run an AC using a small set up.
Ok Im up in Brisbane and just done a test running my Ibis 4. It was 28C so I set the AC on 21C to get a good temperature variation.
The good news is that it is a soft start AC and started off at just less than 300W and then gradually built up to 1035W.
At the 15 minute mark it had consumed 13.2Ah. At 30 minutes 34.4Ah At 45 minutes 50.5Ah
Early on it was using 1270W for a brief period but then seemed to settle at about 1030W up to about the 40 minute mark. After that it dropped again to around 680W.
It is possible to run an AC for a short period of time but the problem is although it cools the air inside the camper van, the van itself and fittings have retained heat which quickly heat up the air again when it is turned off. Plus of course insulation issues.
It is possible but costly, and of course you will need to replace the power that you use. You would need at least one or even two lightweight portable panels to add to your existing system plus of course the LiFePO4 batteries. Probably 2 x 200Ah at a minimum.
Hope that helps
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Saturday 7th of January 2023 08:26:37 PM
TimTim said
09:39 PM Jan 7, 2023
maids wrote:
all very confusing as it looks like most here are only interested in my spelling mistake for which I corrected SO SORRY
how many SOLAR panels ?? how big an inverter? how many batteries and what sort?
You have 2 x 200w on the roof I take it. You will need at a minimum 2 x 160w lightweight portable panels.
My son has one of the 160w panels and it was producing 143W or 89.3% of the stated output which is quite good they were on special before Christmas at $449.
Your 2000W inverter may be big enough depending on AC current draw, needs good ventilation as we previously discussed and nice heavy cables. Need your AC specs.
2 x 200w LiFePO4 if you want to run AC for short periods. Longer and you will need more solar and more LiFePo4 and exactly what Cuppa said.
LiFePO4 are smaller and lighter so measure your space and see what you can fit in.
What make and model is your solar controller?
A DC to DC charger is handy if only staying at places for short periods.
Yeah, you spelt solar incorrectly so go stand in the corner .
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Saturday 7th of January 2023 09:44:07 PM
Bicyclecamper said
10:02 PM Jan 7, 2023
Look for the 12 volt version, an Australian company (I don't remember who), sells them for $2700, an american company sells them for about $1900, and ebay sells them for $1200, still require lots of lith. batts, but at 12 volts, no losses with an invertor to convert to AC. They are very efficient. An aquaintance has one, and gets 6 hours of cooling off 400ah of Victron batteries and 600 watts of Jaycar panels. EDIT: plus 2 x 160 watt portable panels, brand unknown
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of January 2023 10:15:37 PM
Tony LEE said
09:21 AM Jan 8, 2023
Maids, I'd sugest just ignorin the minority jerkovs who insist on corekting irelevant spelin erors and mina gramatikal misssteps. All they acheeve is to draw atenshon to their own glarin failins
Jaahn said
09:36 AM Jan 8, 2023
maids wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
The problem with a basic, especially unnecessary spelling issues, is for the people who do a Search, then the topic discussed won't show up.
Not shoving an R on the end of a word buggers up the thread up for future reference.
I corrected the post after the first reply. If I could remove the post I would
Maids, I'd sugest just ignorin the minority jerkovs who insist on corekting irelevant spelin erors and mina gramatikal misssteps. All they acheeve is to draw atenshon to their own glarin failins
Hi I was irritated by the reaction to maids spelling mistake. A couple of people can be PITA about these things. We are not all perfect and gees we come on to the forum for assistance not abuse. I believe it is unacceptable the reaction to maids mistake and continued past anything reasonable. MY COSIDERED OPINION
Now to answer the obvious question asked even if some could not understand what it was
I have followed the A/C discussions on forums with interest as I would like to do that. This is my summary, maids. You do need quite a bit of good solar panel input. As much as you can fit on the roof or portable panels or both together. Probably 600-800W would be best. I think 600 might be considered the minimum.
Lithium is new and finding the suitable quality is problematical. There are expensive good quality ones and there are cheap drop-in units. Who knows what will be best value at the moment. Real research is needed on forums to find that out. But probably 400-600 Ahr capacity will be needed. 400 seems like the minimum to me.
The inverter needed is dependent on the airconditioner and also the startup current. The older caravan type A/C need a big inverter to startup and they modulate the temperature by switching the compressor on and off. So they always need a big inverter while running. Not the most efficient way.
The small split types mostly recommended for battery operation on forums have 'inverter' control of the compressor and have soft start and slowly get going to reduce the start current. Also as the set cool temperature is reached they slow the compressor down quite a bit to save power instead of switching it of and on. This is most efficient. Note the inbuilt inverter is different to the other 240V inverter still need to supply the 240V powerl.
I hope that might give you a picture of what you might need for your idea of fitting battery powered airconditioning to your MH. Expensive yes. Other people might like to comment on the actual solar power and battery capacity they have which actually works in their van.
Jaahn
PS Bicyclecamper please supply a link to the 12V unit your friend has and suppliers please. If no link it does not exist
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of January 2023 09:59:00 AM
Bicyclecamper said
10:55 AM Jan 8, 2023
Look it up on ebay, their are 12 volt AC's big in the states, but I only saw the one on my friends motorhome. in person. They exist, just google for them. I also don't know how to link stuff to forums.
Jaahn said
12:25 PM Jan 8, 2023
Bicyclecamper wrote:
Look it up on ebay, their are 12 volt AC's big in the states, but I only saw the one on my friends motorhome. in person. They exist, just google for them. I also don't know how to link stuff to forums.
Hmm here is a link for Ebay austraia which brings up an Australian supplier and some similar direct from China.
That is a great example StreetsAhead and as he pointed out in the video you have to balance the system and be mindful of the limitations.
Thank you.
Mike Harding said
02:08 PM Jan 8, 2023
It's simply an energy equation and there's nowt for nowt with energy - end of the story.
But, I agree, one does need to understand basic mathematics to appreciate this.
Jaahn said
02:22 PM Jan 8, 2023
Thanks StreetsAhead
Mate that is simply the best video demonstrating the working principles of running and managing your own system and what it was actually using at that time. He also listed the hardware for us to know what was operating.
Some comments, he was using 360AHr of AGM. It had a Harrier airconditioner with an internal inverter compressor. The 240V inverter was 2000W. If there was a large solar array it would balance the power required (and store some for the evening), 1000w of solar was fitted on that van.
Mike it is not just an energy equation to a person in the street, do not undermine a good learning opportunity for people here not as tec savvy as yourself. I found it useful and I know quite a bit.
good one thanks Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of January 2023 02:26:16 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of January 2023 02:35:45 PM
Whenarewethere said
03:16 PM Jan 8, 2023
Good video.
If use the air conditioning more to remove moisture, so low speed & not too cold, it will be economical to run.
Ideally would be to have enough solaR, even if you have to add some portable panels, to run the air conditioning & charge the batteries so you have battery resources overnight.
The biggest problem most people are going to have, it not issues to get something like this running, or even the money.
But do you have enough payload!
Air conditioning, batteries, inverter, DC-DC charger, heavy copper wire, solaR & mounting components.
It all adds up very quickly.
Cuppa said
03:44 PM Jan 8, 2023
TimTim wrote:
That is a great example StreetsAhead and as he pointed out in the video you have to balance the system and be mindful of the limitations.
Thank you.
I guess it's a horses for courses thing. Yes he can run the air con for x hours (but let's not forget there are other things to add into the equation which will be using power too), & as he correctly points out you need the ability to recharge the batteries from around a 50% State of charge back to float which even on a 30amp charger - mains, dc to dc or around 500w of rooftop solar will take at least 6 or 7 hours or more if you need to keep your fridge or anything else running. And of course if it's hot two days running, you wont get the air con on the day you are recharging the batteries . So yes you could use that system off grid for X hours one day if you are prepared to go somewhere the next to plug into mains, or to drive long hours to recharge. That is a choice folk can make, but the most off putting thing to me is the need to be constantly managing the air con. Again some folk may not mind that but the last thing I want to be doing is being cooped up in a small space having to maintain constant awareness & need to tweak the air con just to be cool, followed by a fairly rapid loss of coolness when the time comes to switch it off.
Something not yet mentioned in this thread is 'acclimatisation'. For some the air con is a 'Can't manage without it' thing, but the reality is that many can. (And I do accept that some can't, but I believe that they are greatly outnumbered by those who think they can't on the basis of limited exposure to heat & humidity). Going from a cool place to a hot place it's difficult at first & the time when the air con seems most desirable. But once you have been somewhere hot for a while, particularly northern areas which maintain relatively constant temps year round, you do acclimatise provided you don't spend much of your time being somewhere air conditioned. I'm a Victorian from one of that state's notoriously cold places. Flying up to Cairns or Broome direct from Vic would knock me for six. First year up here it took around 4 months to acclimatise, but it was made easier by a slow drive up.. Now I am used to single layer clothing at the most, every day. 32 degrees & 65% humidity is the norm & pleasant. Under 25 degrees is chilly extra blanket weather, under 20 is freezing!
So the point is slow travel & acclimatising is very possible ...if you have the time. If you don't, then you still have choices about where to travel & when, so it is very possible to manage without air con. We have none here, (near the top of Cape York) the house has a modest (marginal) off grid solar system which is too small to practically run air con. We have ceiling fans & sometimes seabreezes blow up through the rainforest. Humidity varies between 65% & 100%. Some days we are drippy, most days physical activity produces soaking wet clothes, but most days are in the low 30's. Occasionally we might comment that "todays a hot one", but it needs to be 38+ or into the 40's for that. It's what you get used to if you have time to get used to it, & a willingness to adjust your daily routines. I have little doubt that I will find it harder to return to a Vic winter than it's been to manage the tropics.
This view on acclimatisation is directed mostly to those who expect to be travelling longer term. I have no idea of your expected travelling intentions Maids, so this may or may not be helpful to you. And I do accept that for some going through that first difficult period , wet, sticky, heat rashes etc is unthinkable, I recall wondering how we would survive, but we did & it became very much easier.
We did have an air conditioner in our previous travel vehicle until the corrugations broke it. Running it from solar was never a consideration. Whilst it was working it was a caravan park magnet, it was addictive, & expensive. It broke when we were on our way to the Birdsville Track from Mt Isa in November. *That* was hot! This will probably sound gross but we managed, travelling in the cooler parts of the day as much as we could, but even then it was hot. We would close the the drivers & passengers windows for as long as we could bear it, working up a good sweat, & then we would open the windows right up & bathe in the glorious 'coolness' that we felt. This was repeated many many times over the 10 days we slowly made our way south. It was madness, but madness that as seared itself into our bank of wonderful memories.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 8th of January 2023 03:59:16 PM
yobarr said
04:35 PM Jan 8, 2023
maids wrote:
God help us all if you find that irritating
Sorry, but I'm with Mike on this. Deliberately misspelling words is a PITA for readers. When I was a youngster we were taught that if a sentence had to be read twice for its meaning to become clear it was a poorly constructed sentence. It takes little effort to right and tork properly Inglish. Cheer
Bobdown said
05:15 PM Jan 8, 2023
yobarr wrote:
maids wrote:
God help us all if you find that irritating
Sorry, but I'm with Mike on this. Deliberately misspelling words is a PITA for readers. When I was a youngster we were taught that if a sentence had to be read twice for its meaning to become clear it was a poorly constructed sentence. It takes little effort to right and tork properly Inglish. Cheer
That's a bit rich from a bloke who didn't put a space after a full stop or press enter twice to start a new paragraph.....well done Wallet Wizard
How much solar and lithium batteries would we need to run aircon in Campervan?
currently have 2 x 200w panels 2000w inverter with 2 x 120ah AGM batteries
also is it difficult to switch over the batteries and how do we determine lithium quality as our installer said all lithium is not the same quality
-- Edited by maids on Saturday 7th of January 2023 01:27:30 PM
I thought "Sola" was a fizzy drink in a can?
Can one run an air conditioner from fizzy drinks? Where would you connect the wires?
OK SPELLING MISTAKE CORRECTED
I can make Sola fizzy, you just need multiple air compressors, but having solaR allows you to do it off grid. I can even charge my Sola UPS & make a coffee with Sola machine.
As far as solaR & air conditioning it is easy off grid & possible without generator.
Plenty of solaR.
About 600AH of batteries.
Mitsubishi or similar split system 2.5kW air conditioning (not the uneconomical roof standard caravan system).
Run AC, after first 20 minutes switch to economy or low setting mode & it is economical to run.
These are the basics.
A number of people here have done it.
The is a Daikin 2.5kW split system installed about 2015.
Looking at the numbers it is very feasible to run off a good battery & solaR setup.
would we need a bigger inverter
Interesting.
So it's drawing about 600W but once down to temperature let's say it's cycling at about 50% so drawing 300W (effectively). Therefore use for five hours would be around 2kWh which makes it do-able with around 5kWh hours of battery and lots of fizzy drink. Emmmmm....
how many SOLAR panels ??
how big an inverter?
how many batteries and what sort?
No. You have been deliberately misspelling solar as "Sola" for quite some time and it's irritating.
Running an AC from batteries is complex and expensive and takes considerable knowledge regarding installation. I suspect it is not an area you wish to venture into, perhaps purchase a 2kW Honda or Yamaha generator instead... or some fans....
God help us all if you find that irritating
Reality is even if you wanted to spend the significant sums of money to achieve this, you would not have sufficient 'real estate' to install it all in & on your vehicle.
That makes perfect sense Thank you
The problem with a basic, especially unnecessary spelling issues, is for the people who do a Search, then the topic discussed won't show up.
Not shoving an R on the end of a word buggers up the thread up for future reference.
I corrected the post after the first reply
If I could remove the post I would
Hi Maids,
Firstly I will address the all lithium is not the same quality. A great source of information is the https://diysolarforum.com/ but in short, from my reading of the wealth of information by people that buy LiFePO4 cells to make batteries, the cells are primarily made for the EV industry. Cells that do not quite make specification are then sold on. These cells are perfectly suitable for storage solutions hence battery manufacturers buy them to produce the numerous batteries on the market and people like myself and many other also buy the cells to make our own batteries.
One knowledgeable poster on that forum has given a great description on the three main grades of cells but people selling the cells will label them as A++, A+ or A to try and sell more, but instead using that terminology I will just explain the three main groups. Group 1 being the EV grade that make specification and if you wish to buy them then expect to pay upwards of 3x the price. Group 2 are the cells that do not quite make EV specification but are suitable for power storage and are sold on to battery manufacturers and cell resellers. Group 3 are the cells with some very noticeable defects and there are many dodgy sellers selling those. We wont talk about Group 4
.
Ok, so all the different batteries that you see around, whether you pay $700 or $1700, the cells inside are generally of similar quality but then there is the BMS inside which can vary in quality. There may be a few battery manufacturers that have been selling cheap batteries using Group 3 cells but they dont seem to last long.
Here is one battery that in all probability assembled with Group 3 or maybe even Group 4 cells but the seller in all probability had no idea what was inside.
https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recalls/lithium-battery-storage-pty-ltd-tas-lithium-battery-systems-%E2%80%94-lithium-iron-phosphate-batteries-24110-sp-and-36110-sp
https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t68383219/lithium-marine-battery-could-fail-badly-or-goodly-fail/
If you do buy LiFePO4 batteries then good luck with the brand you choose. It appears that there are many that are satisfied with their less expensive batteries.
Ok now to your AC, what make and model AC do you have so I can find the specifications. Some have a large power draw on start up. I recently did a test with my Ibis 4. This is what I posted for someone recently who wanted to run an AC using a small set up.
Ok Im up in Brisbane and just done a test running my Ibis 4. It was 28C so I set the AC on 21C to get a good temperature variation.
The good news is that it is a soft start AC and started off at just less than 300W and then gradually built up to 1035W.
At the 15 minute mark it had consumed 13.2Ah.
At 30 minutes 34.4Ah
At 45 minutes 50.5Ah
Early on it was using 1270W for a brief period but then seemed to settle at about 1030W up to about the 40 minute mark. After that it dropped again to around 680W.
It is possible to run an AC for a short period of time but the problem is although it cools the air inside the camper van, the van itself and fittings have retained heat which quickly heat up the air again when it is turned off. Plus of course insulation issues.
It is possible but costly, and of course you will need to replace the power that you use. You would need at least one or even two lightweight portable panels to add to your existing system plus of course the LiFePO4 batteries. Probably 2 x 200Ah at a minimum.
Hope that helps
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Saturday 7th of January 2023 08:26:37 PM
You have 2 x 200w on the roof I take it. You will need at a minimum 2 x 160w lightweight portable panels.
My son has one of the 160w panels and it was producing 143W or 89.3% of the stated output which is quite good they were on special before Christmas at $449.
https://au.ecoflow.com/products/160w-solar-panel
Your 2000W inverter may be big enough depending on AC current draw, needs good ventilation as we previously discussed and nice heavy cables. Need your AC specs.
2 x 200w LiFePO4 if you want to run AC for short periods. Longer and you will need more solar and more LiFePo4 and exactly what Cuppa said.
https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/giant-200ah-12v-lithium-deep-cycle-battery-australian-made-lihium-battery
LiFePO4 are smaller and lighter so measure your space and see what you can fit in.
What make and model is your solar controller?
A DC to DC charger is handy if only staying at places for short periods.
Yeah, you spelt solar incorrectly so go stand in the corner
.
Tim
-- Edited by TimTim on Saturday 7th of January 2023 09:44:07 PM
Look for the 12 volt version, an Australian company (I don't remember who), sells them for $2700, an american company sells them for about $1900, and ebay sells them for $1200, still require lots of lith. batts, but at 12 volts, no losses with an invertor to convert to AC. They are very efficient. An aquaintance has one, and gets 6 hours of cooling off 400ah of Victron batteries and 600 watts of Jaycar panels. EDIT: plus 2 x 160 watt portable panels, brand unknown
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 7th of January 2023 10:15:37 PM
Hi I was irritated by the reaction to maids spelling mistake. A couple of people can be PITA about these things. We are not all perfect and gees we come on to the forum for assistance not abuse. I believe it is unacceptable the reaction to maids mistake and continued past anything reasonable. MY COSIDERED OPINION
Now to answer the obvious question asked even if some could not understand what it was
I have followed the A/C discussions on forums with interest as I would like to do that. This is my summary, maids. You do need quite a bit of good solar panel input. As much as you can fit on the roof or portable panels or both together. Probably 600-800W would be best. I think 600 might be considered the minimum.
Lithium is new and finding the suitable quality is problematical. There are expensive good quality ones and there are cheap drop-in units. Who knows what will be best value at the moment. Real research is needed on forums to find that out. But probably 400-600 Ahr capacity will be needed. 400 seems like the minimum to me.
The inverter needed is dependent on the airconditioner and also the startup current. The older caravan type A/C need a big inverter to startup and they modulate the temperature by switching the compressor on and off. So they always need a big inverter while running. Not the most efficient way.
The small split types mostly recommended for battery operation on forums have 'inverter' control of the compressor and have soft start and slowly get going to reduce the start current. Also as the set cool temperature is reached they slow the compressor down quite a bit to save power instead of switching it of and on. This is most efficient. Note the inbuilt inverter is different to the other 240V inverter still need to supply the 240V powerl.
I hope that might give you a picture of what you might need for your idea of fitting battery powered airconditioning to your MH. Expensive yes. Other people might like to comment on the actual solar power and battery capacity they have which actually works in their van.
Jaahn
PS Bicyclecamper please supply a link to the 12V unit your friend has and suppliers please. If no link it does not exist
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of January 2023 09:59:00 AM
Hmm here is a link for Ebay austraia which brings up an Australian supplier and some similar direct from China.
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_dkr=1&iconV2Request=true&_blrs=recall_filtering&_ssn=hailinger001&store_name=newenergyworld&_oac=1&_nkw=12v%20air%20conditioner
hmm sometimes the link icon fails to appear
No it's there now !
https://www.ebay.com.au/str/treeligonewenergy?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=705-53470-19255-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001
Any person familiar with A/C like to comment on these units.
Jaahn
PS similar items are on the US ebay but freight from there is always expensive and the exchange rate would make them more expensive I believe.
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of January 2023 12:31:29 PM
www.bing.com/videos/search
That is a great example StreetsAhead and as he pointed out in the video you have to balance the system and be mindful of the limitations.
Thank you.
It's simply an energy equation and there's nowt for nowt with energy - end of the story.
But, I agree, one does need to understand basic mathematics to appreciate this.
Thanks StreetsAhead
Mate that is simply the best video
demonstrating the working principles of running and managing your own system and what it was actually using at that time. He also listed the hardware for us to know what was operating.
Some comments, he was using 360AHr of AGM. It had a Harrier airconditioner with an internal inverter compressor. The 240V inverter was 2000W. If there was a large solar array it would balance the power required (and store some for the evening), 1000w of solar was fitted on that van.
Mike it is not just an energy equation to a person in the street, do not undermine a good learning opportunity for people here not as tec savvy as yourself. I found it useful and I know quite a bit.
good one thanks Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of January 2023 02:26:16 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of January 2023 02:35:45 PM
Good video.
If use the air conditioning more to remove moisture, so low speed & not too cold, it will be economical to run.
Ideally would be to have enough solaR, even if you have to add some portable panels, to run the air conditioning & charge the batteries so you have battery resources overnight.
The biggest problem most people are going to have, it not issues to get something like this running, or even the money.
But do you have enough payload!
Air conditioning, batteries, inverter, DC-DC charger, heavy copper wire, solaR & mounting components.
It all adds up very quickly.
I guess it's a horses for courses thing. Yes he can run the air con for x hours (but let's not forget there are other things to add into the equation which will be using power too), & as he correctly points out you need the ability to recharge the batteries from around a 50% State of charge back to float which even on a 30amp charger - mains, dc to dc or around 500w of rooftop solar will take at least 6 or 7 hours or more if you need to keep your fridge or anything else running. And of course if it's hot two days running, you wont get the air con on the day you are recharging the batteries . So yes you could use that system off grid for X hours one day if you are prepared to go somewhere the next to plug into mains, or to drive long hours to recharge. That is a choice folk can make, but the most off putting thing to me is the need to be constantly managing the air con. Again some folk may not mind that but the last thing I want to be doing is being cooped up in a small space having to maintain constant awareness & need to tweak the air con just to be cool, followed by a fairly rapid loss of coolness when the time comes to switch it off.
Something not yet mentioned in this thread is 'acclimatisation'. For some the air con is a 'Can't manage without it' thing, but the reality is that many can. (And I do accept that some can't, but I believe that they are greatly outnumbered by those who think they can't on the basis of limited exposure to heat & humidity). Going from a cool place to a hot place it's difficult at first & the time when the air con seems most desirable. But once you have been somewhere hot for a while, particularly northern areas which maintain relatively constant temps year round, you do acclimatise provided you don't spend much of your time being somewhere air conditioned. I'm a Victorian from one of that state's notoriously cold places. Flying up to Cairns or Broome direct from Vic would knock me for six. First year up here it took around 4 months to acclimatise, but it was made easier by a slow drive up.. Now I am used to single layer clothing at the most, every day. 32 degrees & 65% humidity is the norm & pleasant. Under 25 degrees is chilly extra blanket weather, under 20 is freezing!
So the point is slow travel & acclimatising is very possible ...if you have the time. If you don't, then you still have choices about where to travel & when, so it is very possible to manage without air con. We have none here, (near the top of Cape York) the house has a modest (marginal) off grid solar system which is too small to practically run air con. We have ceiling fans & sometimes seabreezes blow up through the rainforest. Humidity varies between 65% & 100%. Some days we are drippy, most days physical activity produces soaking wet clothes, but most days are in the low 30's. Occasionally we might comment that "todays a hot one", but it needs to be 38+ or into the 40's for that. It's what you get used to if you have time to get used to it, & a willingness to adjust your daily routines. I have little doubt that I will find it harder to return to a Vic winter than it's been to manage the tropics.
This view on acclimatisation is directed mostly to those who expect to be travelling longer term. I have no idea of your expected travelling intentions Maids, so this may or may not be helpful to you. And I do accept that for some going through that first difficult period , wet, sticky, heat rashes etc is unthinkable, I recall wondering how we would survive, but we did & it became very much easier.
We did have an air conditioner in our previous travel vehicle until the corrugations broke it. Running it from solar was never a consideration. Whilst it was working it was a caravan park magnet, it was addictive, & expensive. It broke when we were on our way to the Birdsville Track from Mt Isa in November. *That* was hot! This will probably sound gross but we managed, travelling in the cooler parts of the day as much as we could, but even then it was hot. We would close the the drivers & passengers windows for as long as we could bear it, working up a good sweat, & then we would open the windows right up & bathe in the glorious 'coolness' that we felt. This was repeated many many times over the 10 days we slowly made our way south. It was madness, but madness that as seared itself into our bank of wonderful memories.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 8th of January 2023 03:59:16 PM
Sorry, but I'm with Mike on this. Deliberately misspelling words is a PITA for readers. When I was a youngster we were taught that if a sentence had to be read twice for its meaning to become clear it was a poorly constructed sentence. It takes little effort to right and tork properly Inglish. Cheer
That's a bit rich from a bloke who didn't put a space after a full stop or press enter twice to start a new paragraph.....well done Wallet Wizard