Nice one Bob! This type of driving, where the driver has no idea of length of his car and van, is a regular occurrence, and something that I regularly see in my work. No brains, and happy without them.
Car "driver" gets no sympathy from me, but if I was one of those motorcyclists I'd be going straight to a Lotto shop!
How lucky were they? Cheers
deverall11 said
02:53 PM Apr 24, 2023
Looks like he clipped the semi. Should be sent away for some serious driver training before he hurts people. Those guys on motorcycle were lucky.
And yes No sympathy.
-- Edited by deverall11 on Monday 24th of April 2023 02:54:05 PM
Long Weekend said
03:48 PM Apr 24, 2023
Yes, bad judgement by the Ranger driver - obviously, although the road train was going slowly (it stopped very quickly just in front of the wreckage!) all he had to do was to exercise a little patience until the road ahead was completely clear.
It is not only heavy trucks that see towed vans pull back in front very close - I have had a few of those myself.
Murray
Ben Taxyl said
03:55 PM Apr 24, 2023
There is no doubt the ute driver attempted to overtake when it was not safe to do so, but, were those road trains at least 200metres apart? That would make it unsafe.
Food for further investigation perhaps?
Cheers, Ben.
Gundog said
03:58 PM Apr 24, 2023
Primary error is underestimating the gap between the truck and the vehicle ahead.
If it was me I'm quiet happy to stay back behind the semi and back my speed off to increase the gap to allow others to overtake me.
Hells Bells he's got his bed behind him whats the rush.
PS there was another rollover near Proserpine a couple of days ago, but I cannot find any details that are not hidden behind a pay wall.
RickJ said
04:08 PM Apr 24, 2023
There was also one up around Ayr as well if I recall.
Yobarr said;
No brains, and happy without them.
Hahaha, I havent heard that saying for years.
Bobdown said
04:56 PM Apr 24, 2023
Apparently $400 fine and the cost of a new van.
From the story.......
The 57-year-old male driver of the Ford Ranger was issued an infringement for overtaking when unsafe to do so.
yobarr said
08:26 PM Apr 24, 2023
Bobdown wrote:
Apparently $400 fine and the cost of a new van.
From the story.......
The 57-year-old male driver of the Ford Ranger was issued an infringement for overtaking when unsafe to do so.
And that's not enough. Can you imagine the furore if the truckie did not have a camera to prove that he was simply going about his business, doing his job.
Some self-apponted safety-expert reporter would have a field day discussing "rogue truckies" or some such garbage, and all the sheep would say "Baa", as they tend to do when any thinking is involved.
It was reported on TV tonight that the Drivers' Union wants a special licence for caravanners.
And the sooner the better, I say. Too often we see Ma and Pa Kettle retire, sell the Corolla, the biggest vehicle they've ever driven, raid their super account to rush out to buy a twin-cab or other unsuitable car that has a totally unsafe 3500kg tow rating , buy the BIG 3500kg van to go with their entirely unsuitable vehicle, load up the boat and outboard, take everything but the kitchen sink and set sail to "Do the BIG lap" .
And so often it all ends in tears.
It is absolutely ridiculous to allow people who may think that they're "good drivers" but have never towed anything bigger than a 6x4 garden trailer, to go out and buy what is effectively an articulated vehicle combination that may weigh well over 6000kg, while professional drivers of lighter trucks need to upgrade to an entirely different class of licence simply to drive a rigid vehicle that weighs more than 4500kg.
Ma and Pa then set sail, but they are an accident looking for a place to happen. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 24th of April 2023 09:00:37 PM
RickJ said
08:43 PM Apr 24, 2023
*It was reported on TV tonight that the Drivers' Union wants a special licence for caravanners.*
Wow that will be a difficult task for any government.
Just in this topic the reports are coming with repeated monotony and the great southern migration has barely started.
As is reported that fortunately most caravan rollovers end with the couple dusting themselves off and for the most part the van is written off, the generally inadequate car is repaired and sold, and Ma and Pa decide that the big lap is not for them.
It will be when Ma or Pa roll one on its side at an oncoming school bus full of children is when there will be concern as to the actual ability of those operating a van and tow vehicle come into question.
watsea said
10:10 PM Apr 24, 2023
For this WA incident, the video, photos and reporting did not indicate any Ma and Pa Kettle in an overloaded vehicle with an overloaded van. More like a late fifties driver, in a modern ute with a van, making a driving error. I assume that the bikes were the nearest oncoming vehicles to the offending caravaner. The bikes are likely to be more difficult to see than a car or a truck. Looked like poor judgement or lack attention when the utility vehicle and van was passing a long heavy vehicle. Also poor choice of a location for an overtaking manoeuvre, as the unbroken white line was evident in the video footage.
On a number of occasions, not very often, thankfully, if I had not braked sharply, the front end of my vehicle would have been intimately connected with the front wheels of the rear axle bogey of a semi trailer as the truck rig moved to the left prematurely, after passing my vehicle. Presumably, the truck drivers concerned had the appropriate heavy vehicle licences, and are supposed to know the length of their rig and drive accordingly.
-- Edited by watsea on Monday 24th of April 2023 10:15:29 PM
-- Edited by watsea on Monday 24th of April 2023 10:16:26 PM
-- Edited by watsea on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 12:06:58 AM
Magnarc said
08:08 AM Apr 25, 2023
Driver error????? Sheer and utter stupidity. I see it every day here in Melbourne people in a hurry with no thought for the safety of others let alone themselves. I have watched that clip three or four times and there is no way that he had enough room to get back in, before collecting those bikies. A total Richard Cranium who is very lucky not to have at least two deaths on his conscience.
TimTim said
09:07 AM Apr 25, 2023
Error??????
He overtook on a single unbroken line against oncoming traffic. Irrespective whether he had a caravan, he is a rogue driver. Even if he wasnt towing he if he would have done the same so I will keep my thoughts of what I think of the guy to myself.
Yes there are rogue drivers out there that tow caravans, similarly there are rogue truck drivers but for the most part the majority of drivers in both groups do the right thing.
watsea said
09:41 AM Apr 25, 2023
TimTim wrote:
Error??????
He overtook on a single unbroken line against oncoming traffic. Irrespective whether he had a caravan, he is a rogue driver. Even if he wasnt towing he if he would have done the same so I will keep my thoughts of what I think of the guy to myself.
Yes there are rogue drivers out there that tow caravans, similarly there are rogue truck drivers but for the most part the majority of drivers in both groups do the right thing.
I agree. Many rogue drivers out there. I see them regularly also lots of people trying to do the right thing.
Please don't get hooked up on the word "error".
"Error" has many synoyms including: fail, mistake, flaw, fault, blunder etc.
The actions and root causes of the driver's action are worth discussing. Impatience, stupidity, bad judgement, arrogance, what ever, or a combination of these.
-- Edited by watsea on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 09:44:36 AM
yobarr said
10:02 AM Apr 25, 2023
watsea wrote:
For this WA incident, the video, photos and reporting did not indicate any Ma and Pa Kettle in an overloaded vehicle with an overloaded van. More like a late fifties driver, in a modern ute with a van, making a driving error. I assume that the bikes were the nearest oncoming vehicles to the offending caravaner. The bikes are likely to be more difficult to see than a car or a truck. Looked like poor judgement or lack attention when the utility vehicle and van was passing a long heavy vehicle. Also poor choice of a location for an overtaking manoeuvre, as the unbroken white line was evident in the video footage.
On a number of occasions, not very often, thankfully, if I had not braked sharply, the front end of my vehicle would have been intimately connected with the front wheels of the rear axle bogey of a semi trailer as the truck rig moved to the left prematurely, after passing my vehicle. Presumably, the truck drivers concerned had the appropriate heavy vehicle licences, and are supposed to know the length of their rig and drive accordingly.
Perhaps you had annoyed the driver by driving too slowly, or some other earlier perceived indiscretion, and it was "payback"?
Without saying too much, I have personally witnessed this "payback" happen on two separate occassions, and believe me, it wasn't pretty for the caravan.
Unlike the majority of caravanners we know how to use mirrors, and know exactly where the back of our last trailer is. We've all seen the slogan "Without trucks Australia stops", but some just don't seem to understand what it means.
The "Gotta get past the truck. Gotta get past the truck" attitude is prevalent, and some of the overtaking manoeuvres I see are beyond stupid, but once these clowns are ahead they'll then slow to 85km/hr. Why?
We are working to a time schedule, while caravanners generally are on holiday, so they should be under no pressure.
Let us go, and, most importantly, don't play games with the Big Boys. You'll lose. Cheers
Note:- Photo was taken by me, but is for illustration purposes only.
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 08:12:19 PM
You must right. There are must be no truckies out there who make an error.
yobarr said
11:06 AM Apr 25, 2023
Magnarc wrote:
Driver error????? Sheer and utter stupidity. I see it every day here in Melbourne people in a hurry with no thought for the safety of others let alone themselves. I have watched that clip three or four times and there is no way that he had enough room to get back in, before collecting those bikies. A total Richard Cranium who is very lucky not to have at least two deaths on his conscience.
The marks on the truck's bullbar show that it was hit hard by the caravan, but how hard this hit was can be seen at around the 38-40 second mark where the whole unit, prime mover and trailers, temporarily snakes. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 08:10:41 PM
Primary error is underestimating the gap between the truck and the vehicle ahead.
If it was me I'm quiet happy to stay back behind the semi and back my speed off to increase the gap to allow others to overtake me.
Hells Bells he's got his bed behind him whats the rush.
PS there was another rollover near Proserpine a couple of days ago, but I cannot find any details that are not hidden behind a pay wall.
"hells bells" Gundog. According to my long deceased grandmother, whom I only heard use the saying once as it was considered to be a mild form of surprised/cursing back then was, "hells bells and buggy wheels" cheers.
yobarr said
12:04 PM Apr 25, 2023
peter67 wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Primary error is underestimating the gap between the truck and the vehicle ahead.
If it was me I'm quiet happy to stay back behind the semi and back my speed off to increase the gap to allow others to overtake me.
Hells Bells he's got his bed behind him whats the rush.
PS there was another rollover near Proserpine a couple of days ago, but I cannot find any details that are not hidden behind a pay wall.
"hells bells" Gundog. According to my long deceased grandmother, whom I only heard use the saying once as it was considered to be a mild form of surprised/cursing back then was, "hells bells and buggy wheels" cheers.
Yes, things certainly have changed over the years.
When I was a youngster the use of the word "bloody" resulted in me having my mouth washed out with salty water!
And one of Gran's saying was "As close as 'Damn it' is to swearing".
Now the "Punt" and "Luck" words, or similar, are used with monotonous regularity, thus losing their intended impact. Sad. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 12:05:20 PM
TimTim said
01:38 PM Apr 25, 2023
All good Watsea not hooked up on the word error. I was laughing when I typed it but I used the basic editor and didn't put a
tea spoon said
09:48 AM Apr 26, 2023
my mate and his wife went on a long road trip Adelaide to Ceduna ......he said he saw a hunded or so vans each day . ......not one prang at all ......my point is there are hundreds of vans around at times and very few prangs ........same goes for cars ......why do vans make such a big deal ......
Gundog said
10:12 AM Apr 26, 2023
tea spoon wrote:
my mate and his wife went on a long road trip Adelaide to Ceduna ......he said he saw a hunded or so vans each day . ......not one prang at all ......my point is there are hundreds of vans around at times and very few prangs ........same goes for cars ......why do vans make such a big deal ......
Stop it tea spoon your making too much comon sense.
Possum3 said
10:14 AM Apr 26, 2023
Like Naval Intelligence - Common Sense is an Oxymoron - i.e. Neither.
RickJ said
09:37 AM Apr 27, 2023
Gundog wrote:
Primary error is underestimating the gap between the truck and the vehicle ahead.
If it was me I'm quiet happy to stay back behind the semi and back my speed off to increase the gap to allow others to overtake me.
Hells Bells he's got his bed behind him whats the rush.
PS there was another rollover near Proserpine a couple of days ago, but I cannot find any details that are not hidden behind a pay wall.
To add to Gundogs comment regarding the rollover at Proserpine, I passed a pile of sticks and tin on the side of the road north of Proserpine on the south bound side.
It must be irony that it happened on a straight stretch of road and not that far from the newly installed overhead (well on a tall pole) traffic monitoring camera.
I hope no one assumes that the van was speeding and hit the brakes at the site of the camera and from there the van was forced by physics to overtake the towing vehicle.
No that may not be the cause at all.
Maybe that this week on the Whitsunday coast the wind has been quite strong so it could be suggested that the van was not being driven to the conditions or heaven help if he tried to pass a large truck and the strong wind thrust him sideways again due to physics.
It may have been caused by many other reasons but apart from mechanical failure these rollovers are generally driver error.
yobarr said
07:44 PM Apr 27, 2023
tea spoon wrote:
my mate and his wife went on a long road trip Adelaide to Ceduna ......he said he saw a hunded or so vans each day . ......not one prang at all ......my point is there are hundreds of vans around at times and very few prangs ........same goes for cars ......why do vans make such a big deal ......
Have you considered the fact that there is a relatively small number of caravans in comparison with the number of cars, and that the total number of kilometres travelled by cars would be many thousands of times greater than the number of kilometres travelled by caravans? Did your mate count the "hundred or so vans" or did he just pick a random number in an effort to bolster his claim?
And did he really expect to see a prang simply because he drove a couple of kilometres and saw a few vans? Spare me!
This makes about as much sense as listening to those who bleat about the number of trucks involved in accidents.
Recently I read that cars are driven an "average" of 40km/day, whereas we truckies regularly travel 1000km/day, (25 times as many daily kms) so obviously we are more likely to be involved in an accident. However, over 80% of fatal accidents involving both cars and trucks are caused by the car driver. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 27th of April 2023 07:48:05 PM
BarneyBDB said
10:28 PM Apr 27, 2023
If someone somehow managed to wave a magic wand and eliminate all accidents involving caravans would the hospital emergency rooms even notice?
I do agree that some people towing vans are idiots but I see many more idiots not towing vans. Can someone show any statistics to support the argument for change other than a small number supporting a random survey??
TimTim said
11:48 PM Apr 27, 2023
watsea wrote:
Yobarr,
You must right. There are must be no truckies out there who make an error.
Watsea of course they dont! It is not possible as they have all been trained and have a licence
It was an accident, and no doubt the driver has appropriate licence, but people like you seem unable to understand that truckies travel up to 1000km/day while the average car travels 40km. Anybody with any understanding of numbers would know that the chances of an accident increase with length of time on the road.
Please refer to my post in this thread, made at 7.44pm on April 27th and try hard to absorb and process the supplied information? Good luck with that though. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 28th of April 2023 07:13:06 PM
peter67 said
10:39 AM Apr 28, 2023
Musta had some good training yobarr, he got most of them!! :) PLUS! he was not allowed to be in the right hand lane. Due for a refresher course I reckon....
Driver error.......clipped the front of the truck with rear of van. Watch dashcam vision.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/ford-ranger-with-caravan-crashes-attempting-to-overtake-kenworth-road-train-on-great-eastern-highway--c-10440008
Be careful out there...Bob
Nice one Bob! This type of driving, where the driver has no idea of length of his car and van, is a regular occurrence, and something that I regularly see in my work. No brains, and happy without them.
Car "driver" gets no sympathy from me, but if I was one of those motorcyclists I'd be going straight to a Lotto shop!
How lucky were they? Cheers
Looks like he clipped the semi. Should be sent away for some serious driver training before he hurts people.
Those guys on motorcycle were lucky.
And yes No sympathy.
-- Edited by deverall11 on Monday 24th of April 2023 02:54:05 PM
It is not only heavy trucks that see towed vans pull back in front very close - I have had a few of those myself.
Murray
Food for further investigation perhaps?
Cheers, Ben.
Primary error is underestimating the gap between the truck and the vehicle ahead.
If it was me I'm quiet happy to stay back behind the semi and back my speed off to increase the gap to allow others to overtake me.
Hells Bells he's got his bed behind him whats the rush.
PS there was another rollover near Proserpine a couple of days ago, but I cannot find any details that are not hidden behind a pay wall.
Yobarr said;
No brains, and happy without them.
Hahaha, I havent heard that saying for years.
Apparently $400 fine and the cost of a new van.
From the story.......
The 57-year-old male driver of the Ford Ranger was issued an infringement for overtaking when unsafe to do so.
And that's not enough. Can you imagine the furore if the truckie did not have a camera to prove that he was simply going about his business, doing his job.
Some self-apponted safety-expert reporter would have a field day discussing "rogue truckies" or some such garbage, and all the sheep would say "Baa", as they tend to do when any thinking is involved.
It was reported on TV tonight that the Drivers' Union wants a special licence for caravanners.
And the sooner the better, I say. Too often we see Ma and Pa Kettle retire, sell the Corolla, the biggest vehicle they've ever driven, raid their super account to rush out to buy a twin-cab or other unsuitable car that has a totally unsafe 3500kg tow rating , buy the BIG 3500kg van to go with their entirely unsuitable vehicle, load up the boat and outboard, take everything but the kitchen sink and set sail to "Do the BIG lap" .
And so often it all ends in tears.
It is absolutely ridiculous to allow people who may think that they're "good drivers" but have never towed anything bigger than a 6x4 garden trailer, to go out and buy what is effectively an articulated vehicle combination that may weigh well over 6000kg, while professional drivers of lighter trucks need to upgrade to an entirely different class of licence simply to drive a rigid vehicle that weighs more than 4500kg.
Ma and Pa then set sail, but they are an accident looking for a place to happen. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 24th of April 2023 09:00:37 PM
*It was reported on TV tonight that the Drivers' Union wants a special licence for caravanners.*
Wow that will be a difficult task for any government.
Just in this topic the reports are coming with repeated monotony and the great southern migration has barely started.
As is reported that fortunately most caravan rollovers end with the couple dusting themselves off and for the most part the van is written off, the generally inadequate car is repaired and sold, and Ma and Pa decide that the big lap is not for them.
It will be when Ma or Pa roll one on its side at an oncoming school bus full of children is when there will be concern as to the actual ability of those operating a van and tow vehicle come into question.
For this WA incident, the video, photos and reporting did not indicate any Ma and Pa Kettle in an overloaded vehicle with an overloaded van. More like a late fifties driver, in a modern ute with a van, making a driving error. I assume that the bikes were the nearest oncoming vehicles to the offending caravaner. The bikes are likely to be more difficult to see than a car or a truck.
Looked like poor judgement or lack attention when the utility vehicle and van was passing a long heavy vehicle. Also poor choice of a location for an overtaking manoeuvre, as the unbroken white line was evident in the video footage.
On a number of occasions, not very often, thankfully, if I had not braked sharply, the front end of my vehicle would have been intimately connected with the front wheels of the rear axle bogey of a semi trailer as the truck rig moved to the left prematurely, after passing my vehicle. Presumably, the truck drivers concerned had the appropriate heavy vehicle licences, and are supposed to know the length of their rig and drive accordingly.
-- Edited by watsea on Monday 24th of April 2023 10:15:29 PM
-- Edited by watsea on Monday 24th of April 2023 10:16:26 PM
-- Edited by watsea on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 12:06:58 AM
Driver error????? Sheer and utter stupidity. I see it every day here in Melbourne people in a hurry with no thought for the safety of others let alone themselves. I have watched that clip three or four times and there is no way that he had enough room to get back in, before collecting those bikies. A total Richard Cranium who is very lucky not to have at least two deaths on his conscience.
He overtook on a single unbroken line against oncoming traffic. Irrespective whether he had a caravan, he is a rogue driver. Even if he wasnt towing he if he would have done the same so I will keep my thoughts of what I think of the guy to myself.
Yes there are rogue drivers out there that tow caravans, similarly there are rogue truck drivers but for the most part the majority of drivers in both groups do the right thing.
I agree. Many rogue drivers out there. I see them regularly also lots of people trying to do the right thing.
Please don't get hooked up on the word "error".
"Error" has many synoyms including: fail, mistake, flaw, fault, blunder etc.
The actions and root causes of the driver's action are worth discussing. Impatience, stupidity, bad judgement, arrogance, what ever, or a combination of these.
-- Edited by watsea on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 09:44:36 AM
Perhaps you had annoyed the driver by driving too slowly, or some other earlier perceived indiscretion, and it was "payback"?
Without saying too much, I have personally witnessed this "payback" happen on two separate occassions, and believe me, it wasn't pretty for the caravan.
Unlike the majority of caravanners we know how to use mirrors, and know exactly where the back of our last trailer is. We've all seen the slogan "Without trucks Australia stops", but some just don't seem to understand what it means.
The "Gotta get past the truck. Gotta get past the truck" attitude is prevalent, and some of the overtaking manoeuvres I see are beyond stupid, but once these clowns are ahead they'll then slow to 85km/hr. Why?
We are working to a time schedule, while caravanners generally are on holiday, so they should be under no pressure.
Let us go, and, most importantly, don't play games with the Big Boys. You'll lose. Cheers
Note:- Photo was taken by me, but is for illustration purposes only.
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 08:12:19 PM
Yobarr,
You must right. There are must be no truckies out there who make an error.
The marks on the truck's bullbar show that it was hit hard by the caravan, but how hard this hit was can be seen at around the 38-40 second mark where the whole unit, prime mover and trailers, temporarily snakes. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 08:10:41 PM
"hells bells" Gundog. According to my long deceased grandmother, whom I only heard use the saying once as it was considered to be a mild form of surprised/cursing back then was, "hells bells and buggy wheels" cheers.
Yes, things certainly have changed over the years.
When I was a youngster the use of the word "bloody" resulted in me having my mouth washed out with salty water!
And one of Gran's saying was "As close as 'Damn it' is to swearing".
Now the "Punt" and "Luck" words, or similar, are used with monotonous regularity, thus losing their intended impact. Sad. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 25th of April 2023 12:05:20 PM
All good Watsea not hooked up on the word error. I was laughing when I typed it but I used the basic editor and didn't put a
Stop it tea spoon your making too much comon sense.
To add to Gundogs comment regarding the rollover at Proserpine, I passed a pile of sticks and tin on the side of the road north of Proserpine on the south bound side.
It must be irony that it happened on a straight stretch of road and not that far from the newly installed overhead (well on a tall pole) traffic monitoring camera.
I hope no one assumes that the van was speeding and hit the brakes at the site of the camera and from there the van was forced by physics to overtake the towing vehicle.
No that may not be the cause at all.
Maybe that this week on the Whitsunday coast the wind has been quite strong so it could be suggested that the van was not being driven to the conditions or heaven help if he tried to pass a large truck and the strong wind thrust him sideways again due to physics.
It may have been caused by many other reasons but apart from mechanical failure these rollovers are generally driver error.
Have you considered the fact that there is a relatively small number of caravans in comparison with the number of cars, and that the total number of kilometres travelled by cars would be many thousands of times greater than the number of kilometres travelled by caravans?
Did your mate count the "hundred or so vans" or did he just pick a random number in an effort to bolster his claim?
And did he really expect to see a prang simply because he drove a couple of kilometres and saw a few vans? Spare me!
This makes about as much sense as listening to those who bleat about the number of trucks involved in accidents.
Recently I read that cars are driven an "average" of 40km/day, whereas we truckies regularly travel 1000km/day, (25 times as many daily kms) so obviously we are more likely to be involved in an accident. However, over 80% of fatal accidents involving both cars and trucks are caused by the car driver. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 27th of April 2023 07:48:05 PM
I do agree that some people towing vans are idiots but I see many more idiots not towing vans. Can someone show any statistics to support the argument for change other than a small number supporting a random survey??
Watsea of course they dont! It is not possible as they have all been trained and have a licence
https://7news.com.au/news/melbourne/terrifying-new-vision-shows-moment-truck-slams-into-multiple-cars-on-melbourne-freeway-c-10465064
It was an accident, and no doubt the driver has appropriate licence, but people like you seem unable to understand that truckies travel up to 1000km/day while the average car travels 40km. Anybody with any understanding of numbers would know that the chances of an accident increase with length of time on the road.
Please refer to my post in this thread, made at 7.44pm on April 27th and try hard to absorb and process the supplied information? Good luck with that though. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 28th of April 2023 07:13:06 PM