Im thinking about buying a Giant brand 140amp AGM battery
I was wondering if anyone on here has purchased one of these batteries and if they have had any issues with them
TimTim said
07:51 PM May 1, 2023
I have a 120Ah that I bought many years ago and still going strong even though I used and abused it.
Shakey55 recently bough some 140Ah AGM so Im sure he will give you his opinion when he logs on.
Possum3 said
08:57 PM May 1, 2023
I have two fitted to my Evernew - only 18 months old but no problems - I purchased on line, delivered to Sydney in two days -
Jaahn said
09:39 AM May 2, 2023
I have one currently, a few years old now, and have used them in my previous MH. I am happy with them, bought them online, and the excellent delivery is also a bonus !
Jaahn
shakey55 said
07:12 AM May 3, 2023
I just purchased three of these (about two weeks or so). Purchased online and delivered in three days to Sydney.
Im now away and have been in van parks, free camping and have used my 200 folding solar panel to top them up when needed.
Although only a very short time with them, Im more than happy. I did a fair bit of research into batteries, was advised to consider these by someone, and do not regret.
Im a fan thus far
Hitting the road said
04:42 PM May 5, 2023
I had bought three of these Aussie Batteries 140 amp AGM's over a 12 month period. I was quite happy with their performance, but last week one decided to pack it in, it is just 2 years old, purchased April 2022. I had it load tested as it was not holding up as it did previously...it failed the test.
It originally would run my 12 volt fridge for 72 hours, but it was now struggling to do 24 hours. I am looking to make a Warranty claim on it.
The other two seem to be doing ok still, but one of them is only 18 months old and the other 12 months old...
TimTim said
05:02 PM May 5, 2023
Thanks for letting us know and please let us know how you go with the warranty claim. May also be a good time to do a capacity test on the other two.
Good luck
Hitting the road said
02:41 PM May 6, 2023
I actually sold the other two...as far as I am aware they must be doing ok as I have not heard back from the buyer...at least I sincerely hope they are doing ok.
I have to admit i have lost a bit of confidence in Aussie Batteries, I am now having issues with a replacement Lithium battery I got from them, and they do appear to not want to return phone calls or emails at this point. If I don't get some sort of positive response out of them i will not be happy and will make it known i am not happy too...Social media is a great place to let others know of experiences!
TimTim said
02:52 PM May 6, 2023
What is the issue with the LifPO4 battery? If things go wrong it is generally the BMS and not the cells.
Whenarewethere said
03:10 PM May 6, 2023
To get to the price people believe is a "bargain" the cells in these batteries will most likely be C grade. Definitely won't be A grade. B grade if you are very lucky.
There are a few threads discussing this issue.
TimTim said
09:01 AM May 7, 2023
There are some great posters on the DIY Solar Forum that buy 1000s of cells and explain the so called grading of cells. A Grade are the automotive grade and none of the batteries have those cells.
The B Grade cells which for various reasons do not quite make the automotive specifications but are very suitable for solar use are the ones that many of us buy to build our batteries. These are also the cells you will find in many of the batteries that have prismatic cells. The majority of the cheaper batteries with prismatic cells will have the same grade of cells as the expensive batteries. There are exceptions though with dodgy sellers using C Grade cells and they are generally on Ebay and do not hang around for long.
Sometimes even reputable sellers get caught out because someone decides to supply them with C grade cells and not B Grade.
At the end of the day with LiFePO4 it isnt always a case of getting what you paid for, it is mostly a case of how much profit can we make before people realise they are paying over the top for the same item in a different package.
We cant speculate what is wrong with Hitting The Roads battery but it would be interesting to find out for further reference. It would be even more interesting to open it up and take a look inside.
Whenarewethere said
11:47 AM May 7, 2023
If you have a run of the mill typical failed lithium battery with C grade cells, at the very least if it turns into an anchor or door stop or dead weight half way between kitchen, laundry & bedroom for wifey tasks! Please do a teardown to educate others, invaluable information & saving grace on your part. Redemption is invaluable, so others have the opportunity to learn & not buy sea anchors!
What is the issue with the LifPO4 battery? If things go wrong it is generally the BMS and not the cells.
Don't know...here is the story so far; I bought 3 of the Atlas 135 amp LifPo4 batteries. When i received them I put them on charge one by one. The first two after overnight were on "float" in the morning showing a steady 13.2v on a multimeter.
The third one would not go past "abs" on the Lithium battery charger to "float" it just sat there on bulk charge for hours showing 14.2v charge rate. I disconnected it, let it rest and it would drop to 13v then slowly come up to 13.4v on the meter...then after a couple of hours I reconnected it to the charger, it still would not go past "abs" or the bulk charge showing 14.2v charge rate.
I managed to get hold pf Aussie Batteries and their Technician did call me back a day later. I explained what was going on and what I had done, and he said that it sounds like the Battery is not performing and can have it exchanged. Being I am going away for 6 months and don't have time to wait for weeks for a replacement, I drove up to their outlet at Chevallum on the Sunshine Coast and exchanged the battery.
Now this one is doing exactly the same...will not go past the bulk charge stage to float, sits on 14.2v. Then on disconnect it drops to 13v then creeps back up to 13.4v.
I decided to try it out by hooking it up to my 12v fridge which will pull around 36 amps a day...my old 140 amp AGM would still be running this fridge after 72 hours, the Lithium was down to I think 12.2v after only 48 hours which is imo way too low. maybe it would have gone for another 24 hours but i did not want to overly discharge the battery.
I put it back on the bench to recharge, it will still not go past the bulk charge stage to float. I emailed Aussie Batteries and they did have a Technician call...i think. I was away from my phone for ten minutes on Wednesday morning and had a missed call...no message. I dialed the number and it was Aussie Batteries, unfortunately they are too busy the recorded message says to take any calls...please leave a message and they will call back...still waiting!!!
They advertise the batteries as having Prismatic cells, they also advertise that these batteries have "dual" BMS so if one fails the other will continue to look after the cells so you don't lose power.
It could be a batch of bad batteries, who knows, maybe thats why they are too busy to answer the phone...it won't stop ringing! They claim they are made in Australia, and Atlas have their own web site advertising their batteries, albeit at a slightly dearer price than what Aussie are selling them for. . Right now their "service" is no where good enough imo...
I'll be back on to their case on Monday...
-- Edited by Hitting the road on Sunday 7th of May 2023 01:36:29 PM
TimTim said
08:14 PM May 7, 2023
Hi Hitting the Road,
My first query would be the charger as it is the equipment that through the algorithm changes to float and in two cases it hasn't done that. Have you tried charging the battery through your solar controller to see whether it goes to float through it. It is worth a try but LiFePO4 do not need to be floated. What is the make and model of your LiFePo4 charger?
LiFePO4 at 13.4v is 99% charged and that is what they will generally settle at but it sounds like the BMS?s are not allowing the cells to go above 14.2V in the charging process which is quite normal. Your charger may be showing a constant voltage of 14.2v but zero or just a fraction of amps
My apologies if i?m reading this wrong but you say your fridge uses 36Ah a day and would still be running after 72 hours. This would equate to 108Ah of your 140ah battery and therefore depleted 77% so at about 11.7v. Fridges can run below 12v though.
Your 135Ah LiFePO4 battery at approximately 12.2V after 48 hours indicates that it is at approximately 11% so it is indicating that you have used approximately 120.15Ah. As you say these figures just don?t add up and so a capacity test is the only way to go. Have you tried running the fridge on the other batteries to see if you get a similar result?
I use one of these to test my battery capacities but they are expensive unless buying direct for China and it sounds like you dont have that time to wait for delivery?
Thanks TimTim...very much appreciate your assistance. I am a bit of a novice and new to the Lithium stuff and need to learn a lot more...
The charger I was using is a Victron Blue Smart Bluetooth IP22 Battery 30 amp Charger. It charged two successfully but not this current one. I have also tried charging on a Victron Blue Smart IP65s Battery Charger 5 amp over a long period, same result....stops at 14.2v bulk charge.
(NB: I have the fridge cut off at 11.5v...the usage may be a tad less than 36 amps per hours)
I have a full set up in my van with the other 2 of these 135 amp Lithiums, they have the IP22 charger wired in, along with a 30 amp Lithium compatible MPPT solar regulator
I am picking up this morning a new Lithium compatible 20 amp MPPT charger to go with the portable set up I use in the car to run the fridge. The plan is to set it up and put a solar blanket i have on to it and see as you write if it will actually go to a "float" stage.
I'll post results...
Cheers
Whenarewethere said
01:25 PM May 8, 2023
I have the Victron 30amp charger & 10amp charger. They have more fine tuning than you can point a battalion of sticks at!
If a lithium battery fails on a Victron charger, the battery was a piece of s..t to start with.
Hitting the road said
08:45 AM May 9, 2023
Aussie batteries have accepted the Warranty claim on the dud battery...albeit as it is "pro rata" a 20% penalty cost.
I am waiting to hear back from them as I do not want a replacement battery as they have offered. I have no use for a 140amp AGM battery\ being I have converted to Lithium...
TimTim said
09:41 AM May 9, 2023
Well i suppose 20% after two years is not bad as they are saying it has 10 year life span if you look at it that way. Or a bit like selling your 2 year old battery for 20% less than what you paid for it .
-- Edited by TimTim on Tuesday 9th of May 2023 09:43:31 AM
Hitting the road said
04:51 PM May 9, 2023
TimTim wrote:
Well i suppose 20% after two years is not bad as they are saying it has 10 year life span if you look at it that way. Or a bit like selling your 2 year old battery for 20% less than what you paid for it .
-- Edited by TimTim on Tuesday 9th of May 2023 09:43:31 AM
True...but there is a winner in that the pro rata is based on full retail price, not discounted price, so in fact I am getting more for the battery than what I paid for it in the first place...they are happy to give me a credit for that "refund" as I do not need a battery.
With regard to the Atlas Lithium i have been whinging about. A few back and forths with Aussie Batteries with no resolve, short of taking it back to them for testing which is off the table as I am going away in a few days.
Anyway, i have been reading and watching videos on these things. I read that the Lithium LiFePO4 batteries have a bulk charging rate between 14.2v and 14.6v with a "float" at 13.6v. The "float" was where I could not get this battery to go, it would just sit on 14.2v bulk charge for hours on end. When taken off the charger it would fall to 13v, then slowly move up to 13.4v, then after an hour or two fall to 13.3v where it would sit.
Anyway, one of the articles I was reading suggested looking for a "sweet" spot of 14.4v bulk charge. Having nothing to lose I manually altered the bulk charge rate in the Victron to 14.5v, and activated the "Float" at 13.6v.
Well well, the battery spent half an hour or so at 14,5v bulk charge, and has now slipped in to "Float" at 13.6v...so now it should be receiving it's final injection and hopefully will be 100% charged.
When i take it off the charger later we'll see where the voltage is sitting...hoping it will be at 13.5v or 13.6v - 100% full...
Im thinking about buying a Giant brand 140amp AGM battery
I was wondering if anyone on here has purchased one of these batteries and if they have had any issues with them
I have a 120Ah that I bought many years ago and still going strong even though I used and abused it.
Shakey55 recently bough some 140Ah AGM so Im sure he will give you his opinion when he logs on.
Jaahn
Im now away and have been in van parks, free camping and have used my 200 folding solar panel to top them up when needed.
Although only a very short time with them, Im more than happy. I did a fair bit of research into batteries, was advised to consider these by someone, and do not regret.
Im a fan thus far
It originally would run my 12 volt fridge for 72 hours, but it was now struggling to do 24 hours. I am looking to make a Warranty claim on it.
The other two seem to be doing ok still, but one of them is only 18 months old and the other 12 months old...
Thanks for letting us know and please let us know how you go with the warranty claim. May also be a good time to do a capacity test on the other two.
Good luck
I have to admit i have lost a bit of confidence in Aussie Batteries, I am now having issues with a replacement Lithium battery I got from them, and they do appear to not want to return phone calls or emails at this point. If I don't get some sort of positive response out of them i will not be happy and will make it known i am not happy too...Social media is a great place to let others know of experiences!
What is the issue with the LifPO4 battery? If things go wrong it is generally the BMS and not the cells.
To get to the price people believe is a "bargain" the cells in these batteries will most likely be C grade. Definitely won't be A grade. B grade if you are very lucky.
There are a few threads discussing this issue.
There are some great posters on the DIY Solar Forum that buy 1000s of cells and explain the so called grading of cells. A Grade are the automotive grade and none of the batteries have those cells.
The B Grade cells which for various reasons do not quite make the automotive specifications but are very suitable for solar use are the ones that many of us buy to build our batteries. These are also the cells you will find in many of the batteries that have prismatic cells. The majority of the cheaper batteries with prismatic cells will have the same grade of cells as the expensive batteries. There are exceptions though with dodgy sellers using C Grade cells and they are generally on Ebay and do not hang around for long.
Sometimes even reputable sellers get caught out because someone decides to supply them with C grade cells and not B Grade.
https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recalls/lithium-battery-storage-pty-ltd-tas-lithium-battery-systems-%E2%80%94-lithium-iron-phosphate-batteries-24110-sp-and-36110-sp
At the end of the day with LiFePO4 it isnt always a case of getting what you paid for, it is mostly a case of how much profit can we make before people realise they are paying over the top for the same item in a different package.
We cant speculate what is wrong with Hitting The Roads battery but it would be interesting to find out for further reference. It would be even more interesting to open it up and take a look inside.
If you have a run of the mill typical failed lithium battery with C grade cells, at the very least if it turns into an anchor or door stop or dead weight half way between kitchen, laundry & bedroom for wifey tasks! Please do a teardown to educate others, invaluable information & saving grace on your part. Redemption is invaluable, so others have the opportunity to learn & not buy sea anchors!
Add information on teardowns to this thread:
https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t67455852/lithium-battery-teardown-examples/
Don't know...here is the story so far; I bought 3 of the Atlas 135 amp LifPo4 batteries. When i received them I put them on charge one by one. The first two after overnight were on "float" in the morning showing a steady 13.2v on a multimeter.
The third one would not go past "abs" on the Lithium battery charger to "float" it just sat there on bulk charge for hours showing 14.2v charge rate. I disconnected it, let it rest and it would drop to 13v then slowly come up to 13.4v on the meter...then after a couple of hours I reconnected it to the charger, it still would not go past "abs" or the bulk charge showing 14.2v charge rate.
I managed to get hold pf Aussie Batteries and their Technician did call me back a day later. I explained what was going on and what I had done, and he said that it sounds like the Battery is not performing and can have it exchanged. Being I am going away for 6 months and don't have time to wait for weeks for a replacement, I drove up to their outlet at Chevallum on the Sunshine Coast and exchanged the battery.
Now this one is doing exactly the same...will not go past the bulk charge stage to float, sits on 14.2v. Then on disconnect it drops to 13v then creeps back up to 13.4v.
I decided to try it out by hooking it up to my 12v fridge which will pull around 36 amps a day...my old 140 amp AGM would still be running this fridge after 72 hours, the Lithium was down to I think 12.2v after only 48 hours which is imo way too low. maybe it would have gone for another 24 hours but i did not want to overly discharge the battery.
I put it back on the bench to recharge, it will still not go past the bulk charge stage to float. I emailed Aussie Batteries and they did have a Technician call...i think. I was away from my phone for ten minutes on Wednesday morning and had a missed call...no message. I dialed the number and it was Aussie Batteries, unfortunately they are too busy the recorded message says to take any calls...please leave a message and they will call back...still waiting!!!
They advertise the batteries as having Prismatic cells, they also advertise that these batteries have "dual" BMS so if one fails the other will continue to look after the cells so you don't lose power.
It could be a batch of bad batteries, who knows, maybe thats why they are too busy to answer the phone...it won't stop ringing! They claim they are made in Australia, and Atlas have their own web site advertising their batteries, albeit at a slightly dearer price than what Aussie are selling them for. . Right now their "service" is no where good enough imo...
I'll be back on to their case on Monday...
-- Edited by Hitting the road on Sunday 7th of May 2023 01:36:29 PM
Hi Hitting the Road,
My first query would be the charger as it is the equipment that through the algorithm changes to float and in two cases it hasn't done that. Have you tried charging the battery through your solar controller to see whether it goes to float through it. It is worth a try but LiFePO4 do not need to be floated. What is the make and model of your LiFePo4 charger?
LiFePO4 at 13.4v is 99% charged and that is what they will generally settle at but it sounds like the BMS?s are not allowing the cells to go above 14.2V in the charging process which is quite normal. Your charger may be showing a constant voltage of 14.2v but zero or just a fraction of amps
My apologies if i?m reading this wrong but you say your fridge uses 36Ah a day and would still be running after 72 hours. This would equate to 108Ah of your 140ah battery and therefore depleted 77% so at about 11.7v. Fridges can run below 12v though.
Your 135Ah LiFePO4 battery at approximately 12.2V after 48 hours indicates that it is at approximately 11% so it is indicating that you have used approximately 120.15Ah. As you say these figures just don?t add up and so a capacity test is the only way to go. Have you tried running the fridge on the other batteries to see if you get a similar result?
I use one of these to test my battery capacities but they are expensive unless buying direct for China and it sounds like you dont have that time to wait for delivery?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/144360490603?
Tim
The charger I was using is a Victron Blue Smart Bluetooth IP22 Battery 30 amp Charger. It charged two successfully but not this current one. I have also tried charging on a Victron Blue Smart IP65s Battery Charger 5 amp over a long period, same result....stops at 14.2v bulk charge.
(NB: I have the fridge cut off at 11.5v...the usage may be a tad less than 36 amps per hours)
I have a full set up in my van with the other 2 of these 135 amp Lithiums, they have the IP22 charger wired in, along with a 30 amp Lithium compatible MPPT solar regulator
I am picking up this morning a new Lithium compatible 20 amp MPPT charger to go with the portable set up I use in the car to run the fridge. The plan is to set it up and put a solar blanket i have on to it and see as you write if it will actually go to a "float" stage.
I'll post results...
Cheers
I have the Victron 30amp charger & 10amp charger. They have more fine tuning than you can point a battalion of sticks at!
If a lithium battery fails on a Victron charger, the battery was a piece of s..t to start with.
I am waiting to hear back from them as I do not want a replacement battery as they have offered. I have no use for a 140amp AGM battery\ being I have converted to Lithium...
Well i suppose 20% after two years is not bad as they are saying it has 10 year life span if you look at it that way. Or a bit like selling your 2 year old battery for 20% less than what you paid for it
.
-- Edited by TimTim on Tuesday 9th of May 2023 09:43:31 AM
True...but there is a winner in that the pro rata is based on full retail price, not discounted price, so in fact I am getting more for the battery than what I paid for it in the first place...they are happy to give me a credit for that "refund" as I do not need a battery.
With regard to the Atlas Lithium i have been whinging about. A few back and forths with Aussie Batteries with no resolve, short of taking it back to them for testing which is off the table as I am going away in a few days.
Anyway, i have been reading and watching videos on these things. I read that the Lithium LiFePO4 batteries have a bulk charging rate between 14.2v and 14.6v with a "float" at 13.6v. The "float" was where I could not get this battery to go, it would just sit on 14.2v bulk charge for hours on end. When taken off the charger it would fall to 13v, then slowly move up to 13.4v, then after an hour or two fall to 13.3v where it would sit.
Anyway, one of the articles I was reading suggested looking for a "sweet" spot of 14.4v bulk charge. Having nothing to lose I manually altered the bulk charge rate in the Victron to 14.5v, and activated the "Float" at 13.6v.
Well well, the battery spent half an hour or so at 14,5v bulk charge, and has now slipped in to "Float" at 13.6v...so now it should be receiving it's final injection and hopefully will be 100% charged.
When i take it off the charger later we'll see where the voltage is sitting...hoping it will be at 13.5v or 13.6v - 100% full...