They recently purchased a 2014 Elite Luxury Class 1610 BD.
After taking it to get weighed, they have a tow ball weight of 400 kg and their ATM was 2180.
The current VIN plate shows an ATM of 2108 and max ball weight of 350.
Even if they can get it's ATM recertified up a few hundred kg, they still have big issues with the tow ball weight.
We looked at trying to move bits and pieces (maybe 30kg) from the front storage area inside the van (in front of the bed) but apart from the area under the bed, there is really nowhere to move stuff towards the rear of the van.
We are wondering if anybody else knows of similar cases mainly regarding the tow ball weight.
-- Edited by Graz on Wednesday 7th of June 2023 06:33:02 PM
Possum3 said
07:14 PM Jun 7, 2023
Not enough information given - Are water tanks filled? Are gas bottles filled? What is mounted on drawbar? has anything been removed from rear bar? What is Tug vehicle? Single or tandem axled van?
Graz said
07:32 PM Jun 7, 2023
Front 90 L tank was fill but he said the rear 90 L tank was showing only half fill on the gauge.
He will get van level tomorrow and make sure both tanks are fill and see how it looks on the towball.
The 2 x 9kg gas bottles on the drawbar are fill.
The only other thing on the drawbar is half a dozen tent poles in a plastic conduit.
Doesn't have a rear bar as this model has the access door on the rear of the van.
Tow vehicle is Toyota Fortuna with max. ball weight 310kg.
Caravan is single axle and it seems to be located closer to the rear of the van than what appears right compared to other vans.
His van is not overloaded with heaps of extras and even if the rear tank was half empty, that won't totally account for the towball weight of 400kg
yobarr said
07:37 PM Jun 7, 2023
Graz wrote:
I am posting this on behalf of my neighbours.
They recently purchased a 2014 Elite Luxury Class 1610 BD.
After taking it to get weighed, they have a tow ball weight of 400 kg and their ATM was 2180.
The current VIN plate shows an ATM of 2108 and max ball weight of 350.
Even if they can get it's ATM recertified up a few hundred kg, they still have big issues with the tow ball weight.
We looked at trying to move bits and pieces (maybe 30kg) from the front storage area inside the van (in front of the bed) but apart from the area under the bed, there is really nowhere to move stuff towards the rear of the van.
We are wondering if anybody else knows of similar cases mainly regarding the tow ball weight.
Please note that I know little about this model of van, but a quick Google search shows it to have 2x95 litre water tanks.
This van is similar in design to the one I posted about recently in that the axle appears to be further back than it is on most vans, but it also has a rear entry door.
The design suggests that the 2x95 litre water tanks are in front of the axle so the first thing Id do is make sure the water tanks are over, or slightly behind, the axle.
Plumbing the tanks separately can assist with weight distribution, particularly if there is not room for both around the axle, and you may need to get tanks of a different design.
Little things like carrying the jockey wheel in the van, behind the axle, can be a big help, assuming that it is removable.
Because the van already is overweight you may have to look at an ATM upgrade, but if the axle group rating is sufficient that is no big deal.
Where do you live, as I have a couple of contacts that specialise in this field?
As Possum says, more information would help us to help you, but no big problem.
Can you post a photo of the vans compliance plate with serial numbers etc blanked out?
The lady that I spent 2 days with last week, sorting her van of a similar design, phoned me last night raving about how it had never before towed so well,
all safe, all legal. She has been on the road for 6 months, and is half way through "The Big Lap", having started in Sydney and now in Perth. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 7th of June 2023 07:44:16 PM
Graz said
08:04 PM Jun 7, 2023
Thanks yobarr
One water tank either side of axle.
They appear to be plumbed separately and have separate gauges.
I took my own van to Okajara Engineering (Deon) last week for a successful ATM upgrade.
I am doing this post on behalf of a neighbour.
Will check with him about sending VIN plate details.
I do note that the location of the fitments is forward of the single axle ie fridge, bed, microwave, Mirrored robes and overhead cupboards, etc - Ballasting the rear appears to be only option to reduce towball weight, consider moving all water tanks to behind axle.
I also note you are utilising Okajara Engineering in Qld = Their Engineer should best be able to advise you of the most economical weight distribution method.
You did not answer what is the tow vehicle.
Graz said
09:30 AM Jun 8, 2023
Hi Possum
Tow vehicle and other details as per my second post
yobarr said
02:22 PM Jun 8, 2023
Graz wrote:
Hi Possum
Tow vehicle and other details as per my second post
Hi Graeme. Maybe tomorrow Ill be able to devote a bit of time to this, but as Possum says, the owner has to get weight backwards in the van to take weight off the towball.
Normally this is bad practice, but because the axle is so far rearward you are able to get away with it here.
However, it is critical that as much weight as possible be actually over the axle, or slightly rearward of it, starting with BOTH water tanks, but do not be tempted to rely on a cantilever effect, as this will introduce yaw.
You are not trying to counter balance the van, but simply get weight off the towball.
Dont yet have rear axle carrying capacity of this car, but a 240kg towball weight (10% of upgraded 2400kg ATM) will put a minimum of 330kg onto cars rear axle.
Anyway, well wait for compliance plate specs, and work from there! Cheers
Eaglemax said
09:39 PM Aug 20, 2023
Unfortunately imo your neighbour will have a tough time getting the towball weight down to 310kg thanks to the location of the axle. 90kg will take radical thinking as jockey wheels etc won't make enough changes in weight distribution. Then there is the need to reduce the ATM actual weight of the van
However, if your neighbour removes the front watertank altogether the ATM is no longer an issue as its lost 100kg. The towball weight will drop but not enough. The rear tank if it could be relocated further back it might get down to 310kg.
Even so it's not ideal as with the tank empty after camping it's lost its effect. Such a move might require a water bladder in the tow car.
I'd sell the van myself as even the tunnel boot will be rendered useless.
Greg 1 said
12:08 AM Aug 21, 2023
This is a major issue with the advent of single axle vans with reasonably high ATM'S. The TB loads go up to insane levels unless you are prepared to live like a monk and carry very little in the van.
Gundog said
06:48 AM Aug 21, 2023
Graz, I think your starting point is to empty both water tanks and then re weigh it. Just shifting minor things around the van is pointless.
Look at what is loaded in the van and ask do I need this or can I relocate it into the towing vehicle, I will give you an example we have a full annex plus shade screens initally they were located in the van now they they are inthe tow vehicle.
IMHO 4WD station wagons aka SUV LC's Pajero's etc are not suitable touring tow vehicles, because the have insufficient load space, thats why you see caravans with Tong boes onthe front and rear of many caravan ttowed by vehcles of that ilk.
If you just 2 up why do you need an SUV when a Ute is more suitable, are but dont fall into the trap of fitting feel good accessories like bull bar, canopys, draw system, they just add weight.
yobarr said
02:22 PM Aug 21, 2023
Gundog wrote:
Graz, I think your starting point is to empty both water tanks and then re weigh it. Just shifting minor things around the van is pointless.
Look at what is loaded in the van and ask do I need this or can I relocate it into the towing vehicle, I will give you an example we have a full annex plus shade screens initally they were located in the van now they they are inthe tow vehicle.
IMHO 4WD station wagons aka SUV LC's Pajero's etc are not suitable touring tow vehicles, because the have insufficient load space, thats why you see caravans with Tong boes onthe front and rear of many caravan ttowed by vehcles of that ilk.
If you just 2 up why do you need an SUV when a Ute is more suitable, are but dont fall into the trap of fitting feel good accessories like bull bar, canopys, draw system, they just add weight.
Hi Graham. With a 1460kg rear axle capacity the Fortuner doesn't allow for much relocating of weight from the van, let alone carrying a water bladder in the car.
Plan B is required. As I said earlier, locating both water tanks behind the axle is the first step.
Moving heavy, compact stuff from the front boot into boxes to be carried in the rear of the van when travelling would help.
Little things like the jockey wheel can make a big difference if removed from the drawbar and stored on floor at rear of van, suitably wrapped.
Pain in the Rs I know, but there is no easy way out unless the iwner cuts his losses and gets a better van. Good luck to him. Cheers
P.S Terrible design, particularly with rear door making weight relocation difficult.
P.P.S Spare wheel underneath at front may be able to be moved to underneath at rear? Not easy, but "doable".
Hi everybody and appreciate your comments.
My neighbour decided a week ago to cut his losses and try to get rid of this van.
Not a good introduction to caravanning but if I could offer any advice to first time buyers, it would be buy whatever on the condition that the weights (incl. tow ball) will work for you and your tow vehicle.
yobarr said
03:07 PM Aug 21, 2023
Graz wrote:
Hi everybody and appreciate your comments. My neighbour decided a week ago to cut his losses and try to get rid of this van. Not a good introduction to caravanning but if I could offer any advice to first time buyers, it would be buy whatever on the condition that the weights (incl. towball weight)will work for you and your tow vehicle.
Great advice there, but these weights MUST be done when loaded for travel. Towball weight on compliance plate means nothing, nil, nada, zilch, zero. Good luck to your friend, but let him know that he always is welcome to seek help here with weights. Cheers
I am posting this on behalf of my neighbours.
They recently purchased a 2014 Elite Luxury Class 1610 BD.
After taking it to get weighed, they have a tow ball weight of 400 kg and their ATM was 2180.
The current VIN plate shows an ATM of 2108 and max ball weight of 350.
Even if they can get it's ATM recertified up a few hundred kg, they still have big issues with the tow ball weight.
We looked at trying to move bits and pieces (maybe 30kg) from the front storage area inside the van (in front of the bed) but apart from the area under the bed, there is really nowhere to move stuff towards the rear of the van.
We are wondering if anybody else knows of similar cases mainly regarding the tow ball weight.
-- Edited by Graz on Wednesday 7th of June 2023 06:33:02 PM
He will get van level tomorrow and make sure both tanks are fill and see how it looks on the towball.
The 2 x 9kg gas bottles on the drawbar are fill.
The only other thing on the drawbar is half a dozen tent poles in a plastic conduit.
Doesn't have a rear bar as this model has the access door on the rear of the van.
Tow vehicle is Toyota Fortuna with max. ball weight 310kg.
Caravan is single axle and it seems to be located closer to the rear of the van than what appears right compared to other vans.
His van is not overloaded with heaps of extras and even if the rear tank was half empty, that won't totally account for the towball weight of 400kg
Please note that I know little about this model of van, but a quick Google search shows it to have 2x95 litre water tanks.
This van is similar in design to the one I posted about recently in that the axle appears to be further back than it is on most vans, but it also has a rear entry door.
The design suggests that the 2x95 litre water tanks are in front of the axle so the first thing Id do is make sure the water tanks are over, or slightly behind, the axle.
Plumbing the tanks separately can assist with weight distribution, particularly if there is not room for both around the axle, and you may need to get tanks of a different design.
Little things like carrying the jockey wheel in the van, behind the axle, can be a big help, assuming that it is removable.
Because the van already is overweight you may have to look at an ATM upgrade, but if the axle group rating is sufficient that is no big deal.
Where do you live, as I have a couple of contacts that specialise in this field?
As Possum says, more information would help us to help you, but no big problem.
Can you post a photo of the vans compliance plate with serial numbers etc blanked out?
The lady that I spent 2 days with last week, sorting her van of a similar design, phoned me last night raving about how it had never before towed so well,
all safe, all legal. She has been on the road for 6 months, and is half way through "The Big Lap", having started in Sydney and now in Perth. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 7th of June 2023 07:44:16 PM
One water tank either side of axle.
They appear to be plumbed separately and have separate gauges.
I took my own van to Okajara Engineering (Deon) last week for a successful ATM upgrade.
I am doing this post on behalf of a neighbour.
Will check with him about sending VIN plate details.
I do note that the location of the fitments is forward of the single axle ie fridge, bed, microwave, Mirrored robes and overhead cupboards, etc - Ballasting the rear appears to be only option to reduce towball weight, consider moving all water tanks to behind axle.
I also note you are utilising Okajara Engineering in Qld = Their Engineer should best be able to advise you of the most economical weight distribution method.
You did not answer what is the tow vehicle.
Tow vehicle and other details as per my second post
Hi Graeme. Maybe tomorrow Ill be able to devote a bit of time to this, but as Possum says, the owner has to get weight backwards in the van to take weight off the towball.
Normally this is bad practice, but because the axle is so far rearward you are able to get away with it here.
However, it is critical that as much weight as possible be actually over the axle, or slightly rearward of it, starting with BOTH water tanks, but do not be tempted to rely on a cantilever effect, as this will introduce yaw.
You are not trying to counter balance the van, but simply get weight off the towball.
Dont yet have rear axle carrying capacity of this car, but a 240kg towball weight (10% of upgraded 2400kg ATM) will put a minimum of 330kg onto cars rear axle.
Anyway, well wait for compliance plate specs, and work from there! Cheers
Graz, I think your starting point is to empty both water tanks and then re weigh it. Just shifting minor things around the van is pointless.
Look at what is loaded in the van and ask do I need this or can I relocate it into the towing vehicle, I will give you an example we have a full annex plus shade screens initally they were located in the van now they they are inthe tow vehicle.
IMHO 4WD station wagons aka SUV LC's Pajero's etc are not suitable touring tow vehicles, because the have insufficient load space, thats why you see caravans with Tong boes onthe front and rear of many caravan ttowed by vehcles of that ilk.
If you just 2 up why do you need an SUV when a Ute is more suitable, are but dont fall into the trap of fitting feel good accessories like bull bar, canopys, draw system, they just add weight.
Hi Graham. With a 1460kg rear axle capacity the Fortuner doesn't allow for much relocating of weight from the van, let alone carrying a water bladder in the car.
Plan B is required. As I said earlier, locating both water tanks behind the axle is the first step.
Moving heavy, compact stuff from the front boot into boxes to be carried in the rear of the van when travelling would help.
Little things like the jockey wheel can make a big difference if removed from the drawbar and stored on floor at rear of van, suitably wrapped.
Pain in the Rs I know, but there is no easy way out unless the iwner cuts his losses and gets a better van. Good luck to him. Cheers
P.S Terrible design, particularly with rear door making weight relocation difficult.
P.P.S Spare wheel underneath at front may be able to be moved to underneath at rear? Not easy, but "doable".
My neighbour decided a week ago to cut his losses and try to get rid of this van.
Not a good introduction to caravanning but if I could offer any advice to first time buyers, it would be buy whatever on the condition that the weights (incl. tow ball) will work for you and your tow vehicle.
Great advice there, but these weights MUST be done when loaded for travel. Towball weight on compliance plate means nothing, nil, nada, zilch, zero. Good luck to your friend, but let him know that he always is welcome to seek help here with weights. Cheers