A large chain of vanparks has a clause in their T$C that gives them the unfetterred right
to access your card that was used to pay for your accommodation for any damage or cost
that might be suffered by the park that they deem was caused bu you.
In my case I booked days ahead, paid and thought that would be the end of it.
Not so. Just as we left home a notice appeared on my computer that to save time
on check-in would I please agree to the accompanying page of T&C.
Upon reading same, I determined not to allow access to my card under these circumstances,
but didnt have time to cancel and look for alternatives, so decided to bluff it out.
The lady at the check-in mentioned that I had not returned the T&C form and pointed me to
a screen on the desk and asked me to sign. I asked for a printed copy and retired to a corner to
read same.
Sure enough, there was the objectionable clause, which I duly deleted and signed and returned
it to the receptionist. She just chucked it onto a pile of others under the counter without reading
along with a pile of others.
As it turned out, the electrical connection on the post at my site was burned out and melted to
destruction. I used another.
Could have been held responsible - as maybe many others at that site!!
READ what you sign. Be warned.
This post will disappear so take note and tell others!!!
B
Possum3 said
08:39 AM Jul 27, 2023
Good information, we all assume that these rental documents would be up-front and ethical.
Onedodger said
09:10 AM Jul 27, 2023
It should also be noted that most motels do the same.
Whenarewethere said
09:11 AM Jul 27, 2023
Ask for a printed copy as you are vision impaired. Then cross out clause, initial, sign & hand back.
Create admission in return for admission. I do at every opportunity.
Whenarewethere said
09:18 AM Jul 27, 2023
When I bought our last car, took me 40 minutes to read conditions of sale, I crossed out 2 sub clauses.
They accepted.
You simply have to put the effort in & not put up with the BS.
I learnt this from a customer in a previous life working for a large company. Looking back the custom was right. I now apply the same principles.
Brodie Allen said
11:49 AM Jul 27, 2023
I have seen the same disclaimer in car service/repair businesses.
In Newcastle once I crossed out a clause on an Authorisation to Work in a VERY large
dealership.
During the day that the car was in their care and keeping someone backed another vehicle
with a tow bar right thru the drivers side door.
The clause said that I indemnified the dealership against damage however caused by them.
They tried to withhold the vehicle until I authorised with my card a debit of $4000-odd
which was their estimate of cost of repair.
They were mortified when I asked them to produce the document. My legal people said that
the clause was likely not enforcable anyway, but who wants the fight?
I see the same disclaimer on the work sheet of most "Orders" to do the work at all brands
of dealership.
B
Pradokakadudavid said
06:14 PM Jul 29, 2023
There are three things I always cross off or change on all forms:
1. The question about my partner (I always insert the correct name, i.e. wife, which is never an option).
2. Indigenous or non-indigenous. I always insist on defining myself as a "white Australian". If they don't like it, I don't sign it!
3. Sexual orientation - if I can't say, "normal" or "heterosexual" then I tick other!
As John Howard recently so accurately said, "we should not be being force fed a diet of political correctness"!
At least the Chinese understand these basic principles despite the fact that everything they make quickly falls apart.
-- Edited by Pradokakadudavid on Saturday 29th of July 2023 06:20:01 PM
Greg 1 said
10:29 PM Jul 29, 2023
If you have to sign T's&C's then a contract is being formed.
There are a couple of things to remember.
1. The document forms their offer. You are under no obligation to accept it. You can alter it and then that forms your counter offer.
2. If they accept your counter offer, a contract is formed on that basis.
3. A contract cannot be considered unconscionable. If it has terms in it which are unconscionable they can be ruled out in any future action or could even make the entire contract null and void depending on the clause.
4. Many documents like this are written in the hope people will just sign on the dotted line and will fold If the firm applies the contract to them, even though the clause may very well be considered unconscionable, so it is worthwhile reading it through and excluding such clauses in the first instant.
You will usually find that they will still accept your booking, but you have safe guarded yourself against a possible unscrupulous operator.
deverall11 said
09:47 AM Jul 30, 2023
Greg 1 wrote:
If you have to sign T's&C's then a contract is being formed. There are a couple of things to remember. 1. The document forms their offer. You are under no obligation to accept it. You can alter it and then that forms your counter offer. 2. If they accept your counter offer, a contract is formed on that basis. 3. A contract cannot be considered unconscionable. If it has terms in it which are unconscionable they can be ruled out in any future action or could even make the entire contract null and void depending on the clause. 4. Many documents like this are written in the hope people will just sign on the dotted line and will fold If the firm applies the contract to them, even though the clause may very well be considered unconscionable, so it is worthwhile reading it through and excluding such clauses in the first instant. You will usually find that they will still accept your booking, but you have safe guarded yourself against a possible unscrupulous operator.
Perfectly explained. Unfortunately too many people do not read said contract, get in trouble and then
claim foul play. You signed it bozo!!!!
DMaxer said
11:16 AM Jul 30, 2023
It depends what the circumstances of the event are. If there is a sign saying that the owner of the park will not be liable for any damages that may occur and the owner is negligent in any act or failure to act they may still be liable no matter what the T and C may say.
You cannot contract out of negligence. If someone is injured or killed or suffers loss what you may have signed is immaterial. If it is obvious that there is a major risk then the maxim of volenti non fit injuria may apply. This means that a person who willingly took the risk and was aware of the dangers would have damages greatly reduced or even totally refused in a claim for personal injury.
These were known as "ticket cases", the example being admittance to an event and on the back of the ticket was a list of things that the owner sought to have excluded. Goes back hundreds of years with the majority of the so called exclusions being excluded.
Whenarewethere said
11:52 AM Jul 30, 2023
A couple of other options. Often the conditions are in faint grey. Ast them to print off a legible copy in 12 point print.
Or cross out every clause & initial & sign (be seen to photograph document for your record & mention as requested by my lawyer).
Whenarewethere said
11:53 AM Jul 30, 2023
As them to read out complete list of conditions as you have reading difficulties.
A large chain of vanparks has a clause in their T$C that gives them the unfetterred right
to access your card that was used to pay for your accommodation for any damage or cost
that might be suffered by the park that they deem was caused bu you.
In my case I booked days ahead, paid and thought that would be the end of it.
Not so. Just as we left home a notice appeared on my computer that to save time
on check-in would I please agree to the accompanying page of T&C.
Upon reading same, I determined not to allow access to my card under these circumstances,
but didnt have time to cancel and look for alternatives, so decided to bluff it out.
The lady at the check-in mentioned that I had not returned the T&C form and pointed me to
a screen on the desk and asked me to sign. I asked for a printed copy and retired to a corner to
read same.
Sure enough, there was the objectionable clause, which I duly deleted and signed and returned
it to the receptionist. She just chucked it onto a pile of others under the counter without reading
along with a pile of others.
As it turned out, the electrical connection on the post at my site was burned out and melted to
destruction. I used another.
Could have been held responsible - as maybe many others at that site!!
READ what you sign. Be warned.
This post will disappear so take note and tell others!!!
B
Ask for a printed copy as you are vision impaired. Then cross out clause, initial, sign & hand back.
Create admission in return for admission. I do at every opportunity.
When I bought our last car, took me 40 minutes to read conditions of sale, I crossed out 2 sub clauses.
They accepted.
You simply have to put the effort in & not put up with the BS.
I learnt this from a customer in a previous life working for a large company. Looking back the custom was right. I now apply the same principles.
In Newcastle once I crossed out a clause on an Authorisation to Work in a VERY large
dealership.
During the day that the car was in their care and keeping someone backed another vehicle
with a tow bar right thru the drivers side door.
The clause said that I indemnified the dealership against damage however caused by them.
They tried to withhold the vehicle until I authorised with my card a debit of $4000-odd
which was their estimate of cost of repair.
They were mortified when I asked them to produce the document. My legal people said that
the clause was likely not enforcable anyway, but who wants the fight?
I see the same disclaimer on the work sheet of most "Orders" to do the work at all brands
of dealership.
B
There are three things I always cross off or change on all forms:
1. The question about my partner (I always insert the correct name, i.e. wife, which is never an option).
2. Indigenous or non-indigenous. I always insist on defining myself as a "white Australian". If they don't like it, I don't sign it!
3. Sexual orientation - if I can't say, "normal" or "heterosexual" then I tick other!
As John Howard recently so accurately said, "we should not be being force fed a diet of political correctness"!
At least the Chinese understand these basic principles despite the fact that everything they make quickly falls apart.
-- Edited by Pradokakadudavid on Saturday 29th of July 2023 06:20:01 PM
Perfectly explained. Unfortunately too many people do not read said contract, get in trouble and then
claim foul play. You signed it bozo!!!!
It depends what the circumstances of the event are. If there is a sign saying that the owner of the park will not be liable for any damages that may occur and the owner is negligent in any act or failure to act they may still be liable no matter what the T and C may say.
You cannot contract out of negligence. If someone is injured or killed or suffers loss what you may have signed is immaterial. If it is obvious that there is a major risk then the maxim of volenti non fit injuria may apply. This means that a person who willingly took the risk and was aware of the dangers would have damages greatly reduced or even totally refused in a claim for personal injury.
These were known as "ticket cases", the example being admittance to an event and on the back of the ticket was a list of things that the owner sought to have excluded. Goes back hundreds of years with the majority of the so called exclusions being excluded.
A couple of other options. Often the conditions are in faint grey. Ast them to print off a legible copy in 12 point print.
Or cross out every clause & initial & sign (be seen to photograph document for your record & mention as requested by my lawyer).
As them to read out complete list of conditions as you have reading difficulties.