New Lithium system never goes away from 13.2V as measured across the terminals, either
connected to the system or disconnected.
Even when charging (solar), only shows 13.2V at the terminals.
Whole Enerdrive system installed by gold Coast Caravan repairs/services.
Problem as I see it that everywhere I read 14.4 seems to be the voltages that
I should be seeing.
Have i got a problem?
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Friday 4th of August 2023 07:11:39 PM
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Saturday 5th of August 2023 08:00:09 AM
rgren2 said
07:16 PM Aug 4, 2023
Mine reads 13.5V. Are you reading from the meter built in or a multimeter?
yobarr said
08:03 PM Aug 4, 2023
rgren2 wrote:
Mine reads 13.5V. Are you reading from the meter built in or a multimeter?
Today mine rose to 14.06V at 11am according to my battery monitor.
Don't ask me what it all means as my knowledge of electrics is similar to that of many members' understanding of weights. Cheers
TimTim said
10:47 PM Aug 4, 2023
First of all have a feel for heat at all the connections and then make sure they are tight.
Are you using a multimeter or is that some sort of battery monitor that you are taking the measurement from. At 13.2V a LiFePO4 is approximately 70% charged but who is to say that the voltage is not actually 13.29V which is much closer to 13.3V at which the battery is approximately 90% charged. Im sure I read before that Enerdrive were setting their BMSs to cut out at 90% for charging and 20% for discharging but forgive me if Im incorrect.
Tim
Brodie Allen said
07:59 AM Aug 5, 2023
Thanks all.
Whole system is Enerdrive. Installed by professionals at point of purchase.
(Caravan Perfection gold Coast)
The voltage is as read on a multimeter at battery terminals and the bluetooth confirms those readings.
Both solar and bulk charger produce identical readings. All MPPT.
No heat anywhere.
Can find zero specs for this voltage. Everywhere I read the voltage is 14.4 charging and full.
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Saturday 5th of August 2023 08:00:46 AM
If you look at the attached table the SOC does not correspond with the battery voltage. This is probably because the battery has never been fully charged and until it is you will not get and an accurate SOC. Have you ever had the SOC up to 100%. If not charge it to 100% SOC and note the voltage.
I just had a look at the manual and sure enough the battery can only be discharged down to 20% and I suspect that it can only be charged to 90%. I suspect that it is the BMS settings are causing the issue. Have you contacted the installer?
Tim
Brodie Allen said
12:38 PM Aug 5, 2023
Tim Tim - have contacted the installer and waiting to hear back.
Have the thing at 100% daily when in use. Numbers stay the same.
Is discharged for long time storage now and disconnected except to
achieve the pic.
I think that the parameters have been set incorrectly. Yet i see in the
manual that there is a management program for "LFP4S" which I
presume is the one they have selected, but don't know for sure.
all very confusing - will post the details after I have spoken with
installer. Maybe others with Enerdrive have similar settings and
aren't as inquisitive as i am.
I want to know why 14.4 isn't the criteria.
B
Dick0 said
02:09 PM Aug 5, 2023
Brodie Allen wrote:
Tim Tim - have contacted the installer and waiting to hear back.
Have the thing at 100% daily when in use. Numbers stay the same.
Is discharged for long time storage now and disconnected except to achieve the pic.
I think that the parameters have been set incorrectly. Yet i see in the manual that there is a management program for "LFP4S" which I presume is the one they have selected, but don't know for sure.
all very confusing - will post the details after I have spoken with installer. Maybe others with Enerdrive have similar settings and aren't as inquisitive as i am.
I want to know why 14.4 isn't the criteria.
B
Check the "Battery Type" setting whether "LFP4S" has been selected (page 17). If so, check the "SYS values" corresponding to the LFP4S type (pages 19 & 20).
The battery must be fully charged 100% before connecting to the mppt solar controller. Disconnect the battery and charge it with a standard car battery charger until the battery BMS floats the battery at 13.4v/13.5v/13.6v. Allow battery to rest for two hours and check the voltage reading with multimeter and confirm the BMS float level. 13.5v would be excellent but 13.4v is also very good. Then connect the battery to the solar charger.
When you say bulk charger, do you mean a 240v charger?
GRUMPYMUSO said
08:50 AM Aug 6, 2023
Lithium batteries reach Max charge on Bulk Charge Mode at 14.6v but not for long. The charge is quickly reduced to 13.5 volts. That is called the STORAGE MODE where the charge is maintained at 13.5v. Which is 100% capacity. My Victron 30amp charger when first switched on runs in BULK CHARGE mode for up to 2 hours then it quickly reduces the charge to 13.5v STORAGE mode where it maintains that charge level. BULK CHARGE occasionally kicks in for short duration at least once per day thereafter.
Dick0 said
11:00 AM Aug 6, 2023
GRUMPYMUSO wrote:
Lithium batteries reach Max charge on Bulk Charge Mode at 14.6v but not for long. The charge is quickly reduced to 13.5 volts. That is called the STORAGE MODE where the charge is maintained at 13.5v. Which is 100% capacity. My Victron 30amp charger when first switched on runs in BULK CHARGE mode for up to 2 hours then it quickly reduces the charge to 13.5v STORAGE mode where it maintains that charge level. BULK CHARGE occasionally kicks in for short duration at least once per day thereafter.
Yes, that seems a correct charging system, but, I would reduce the float from 13.5v to 13.4v for longevity of battery.
Bulk charge can be varied from zero to two hours and is normally set to kick in at 13.2v.
There are variations to the settings and there are charts and opinions as to the most efficient settings found on Google.
yobarr said
03:06 PM Aug 6, 2023
By 11am today my 540ah of batteries were at 100% and 14.16 volts after going down to 76% overnight. Does that seem OK? Cheers
TimTim said
09:55 PM Aug 6, 2023
Sure does and the the voltage will settle lower at about 13.4V to 13.6 or thereabouts when not being charged. You have nothing to worry about .
yobarr said
10:03 PM Aug 6, 2023
TimTim wrote:
Sure does and the the voltage will settle lower at about 13.4V to 13.6 or thereabouts when not being charged. You have nothing to worry about .
Thanks Tim, It all was set up by an acknowledged expert in Solar, but things can go wrong!
Down to 93% now, and 13.22 volts. Cheers
Brodie Allen said
10:09 AM Aug 7, 2023
DickO:
That's fantastic.
The correct charging for battery has been chosen, but I don't want to interfere - didnt know and can't see where the data can be changed. Although I note that the manual supplied with the install is somewhat different to the one in the link that you so kindly supplied for me.
I hope to hear back from the installer soon but I'm not holding my breath since they are a bit lax in this department.
there's more to Lithium than meets the eye, too !!!!
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Monday 7th of August 2023 01:44:07 PM
Brodie Allen said
02:20 PM Aug 7, 2023
Dick0:
We had the correct LFP4S.
The installer thinks that my disconnecting the battery for storage six months ago has
erased the supplementary settings on the LFP4S. I would have thought that the LFP4S
setting was all that is required, I wasn't awarte that there was supplementary settings
possible and additionally they wouldn't and shouldn't be erased by battery disconnection
for storage at reduced state of charge.
What do you think.
B
Dick0 said
10:23 AM Aug 8, 2023
Brodie Allen wrote:
Dick0:
We had the correct LFP4S.
The installer thinks that my disconnecting the battery for storage six months ago has erased the supplementary settings on the LFP4S. I would have thought that the LFP4S setting was all that is required, I wasn't awarte that there was supplementary settings possible and additionally they wouldn't and shouldn't be erased by battery disconnection for storage at reduced state of charge.
What do you think.
B
No, none of the settings should be erased by battery disconnection. The installer should be able to let you know how to add the supplementary settings to the LFP4S system. If not, the User setting could be programmed with the relevant parameters, I would think. Check the manual or the installer if this is possible. My EPEVER solar controller, VICTRON controllers and others can be programmed with various LiFeP04 parameters using the "user" option.
I have provided an example of the EPEVER default User values and my initial programmed parameter values. I should think that your system , also, should be programmable.
Your Manual and the Installer or a Grey Nomad with your solar charger should be able to shed light on this.
Perhaps let me know exactly the Brand/Model details of your solar controller to check a bit further.
Having seen the chart that you included on your post I have decided
To return the rig to the supplier/installer and let them sort it out.
Thank you for your kind assistance.
B
Mousey said
07:24 AM Aug 12, 2023
Brodie Allen wrote:
DickO:
That's fantastic.
The correct charging for battery has been chosen, but I don't want to interfere - didnt know and can't see where the data can be changed. Although I note that the manual supplied with the install is somewhat different to the one in the link that you so kindly supplied for me.
I hope to hear back from the installer soon but I'm not holding my breath since they are a bit lax in this department.
there's more to Lithium than meets the eye, too !!!!
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Monday 7th of August 2023 01:44:07 PM
You have to hunt Caravan Perfection along sadly there service has gone down over the years . Keep ringing them.
Brodie Allen said
02:19 PM Aug 19, 2023
For those kind people that assisted with their input for me:
As I promised, here's the good oil on the Enerdrive charging system. I have no idea if this is how all systems operate, but would suspect that there's likely not much variance.
As my post showed, 13.3v was the voltage all the way wether charging or discharging or whatever.
The difference was that at 90% charge, the voltage increased "to force the current in against increasing resistance in the battery as the % full increased".
At 95% the voltage was about 13.8v and at 98% reached the recommended 14.4v.
I had not monitored the last top of charging too diligently, expecting that it was a pretty much linear voltage all the way.
The Enerdrive people explained the reason for all this and it made sense to me.
Now I will run the same tests with the solar chargers to see if they are the same. One would expect so - at least hope so.
Only thing I'm not quite settled on is why a 40 amp charger only puts 30-odd amps in throughout the cycle (except for the last couple of % charge).
Thanks all.
B
Bloody silly keyboard - I spent 20 years at a Linotype machine in a commercial printing office - the keyboard was ETYAOIN not QWERTY - I have to retype half of everything I key because the brain still is younger than the kdp;7f7gje. ridj4i . . . .
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Saturday 19th of August 2023 02:25:00 PM
Dick0 said
05:19 PM Aug 19, 2023
Brodie Allen wrote:
For those kind people that assisted with their input for me:
As I promised, here's the good oil on the Enerdrive charging system. I have no idea if this is how all systems operate, but would suspect that there's likely not much variance.
As my post showed, 13.3v was the voltage all the way wether charging or discharging or whatever.
The difference was that at 90% charge, the voltage increased "to force the current in against increasing resistance in the battery as the % full increased".
At 95% the voltage was about 13.8v and at 98% reached the recommended 14.4v.
I had not monitored the last top of charging too diligently, expecting that it was a pretty much linear voltage all the way.
The Enerdrive people explained the reason for all this and it made sense to me.
Now I will run the same tests with the solar chargers to see if they are the same. One would expect so - at least hope so.
Only thing I'm not quite settled on is why a 40 amp charger only puts 30-odd amps in throughout the cycle (except for the last couple of % charge).
Thanks all.
B
Bloody silly keyboard - I spent 20 years at a Linotype machine in a commercial printing office - the keyboard was ETYAOIN not QWERTY - I have to retype half of everything I key because the brain still is younger than the kdp;7f7gje. ridj4i . . . .
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Saturday 19th of August 2023 02:25:00 PM
As a LiFePO4 battery system user, that just does not make sense. The battery BMS control should be floating at 13.4V/13.5V. Voltages at around 14.4V are charging voltage and have nothing to do with the fully charged float voltage. I do not have an Everdrive charging system though. Mine is an Epever System and is similar to other Brand name charging systems. Others here can provide comments on their systems.
Brodie Allen said
07:08 PM Aug 19, 2023
DickO
Maybe
I could have been a bit clearer in that the 14.4 persisted to folly charged and then for a short time then everything reverted to 13.3
(Or 13.4, cant remember) but a while later was at 13.3.
The notable fact was that the charging voltage was only at 14 plus for a relatively short time right towards the end.
To be precise, the voltage did creep an odd .1 v from high in the exercise but not anythinh like charging throughout
The while sequence at 14.4 which was what
I had expected.
B
Dick0 said
03:12 PM Aug 20, 2023
Brodie Allen wrote:
DickO Maybe I could have been a bit clearer in that the 14.4 persisted to folly charged and then for a short time then everything reverted to 13.3 (Or 13.4, cant remember) but a while later was at 13.3.
The notable fact was that the charging voltage was only at 14 plus for a relatively short time right towards the end.
To be precise, the voltage did creep an odd .1 v from high in the exercise but not anythinh like charging throughout The while sequence at 14.4 which was what I had expected.
B
Looks good. If the voltage (battery disconnected with no load for 1-2Hours) settled to 13.4V then that indicates the BMS is doing its job and the battery(s) is in good condition.
New Lithium system never goes away from 13.2V as measured across the terminals, either
connected to the system or disconnected.
Even when charging (solar), only shows 13.2V at the terminals.
Whole Enerdrive system installed by gold Coast Caravan repairs/services.
Problem as I see it that everywhere I read 14.4 seems to be the voltages that
I should be seeing.
Have i got a problem?
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Friday 4th of August 2023 07:11:39 PM
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Saturday 5th of August 2023 08:00:09 AM
Today mine rose to 14.06V at 11am according to my battery monitor.
Don't ask me what it all means as my knowledge of electrics is similar to that of many members' understanding of weights. Cheers
First of all have a feel for heat at all the connections and then make sure they are tight.
Are you using a multimeter or is that some sort of battery monitor that you are taking the measurement from. At 13.2V a LiFePO4 is approximately 70% charged but who is to say that the voltage is not actually 13.29V which is much closer to 13.3V at which the battery is approximately 90% charged. Im sure I read before that Enerdrive were setting their BMSs to cut out at 90% for charging and 20% for discharging but forgive me if Im incorrect.
Tim
Whole system is Enerdrive. Installed by professionals at point of purchase.
(Caravan Perfection gold Coast)
The voltage is as read on a multimeter at battery terminals and the bluetooth
confirms those readings.
Both solar and bulk charger produce identical readings. All MPPT.
No heat anywhere.
Can find zero specs for this voltage. Everywhere I read the voltage is 14.4
charging and full.
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Saturday 5th of August 2023 08:00:46 AM
If you look at the attached table the SOC does not correspond with the battery voltage. This is probably because the battery has never been fully charged and until it is you will not get and an accurate SOC. Have you ever had the SOC up to 100%. If not charge it to 100% SOC and note the voltage.
I just had a look at the manual and sure enough the battery can only be discharged down to 20% and I suspect that it can only be charged to 90%. I suspect that it is the BMS settings are causing the issue. Have you contacted the installer?
Tim
Have the thing at 100% daily when in use. Numbers stay the same.
Is discharged for long time storage now and disconnected except to
achieve the pic.
I think that the parameters have been set incorrectly. Yet i see in the
manual that there is a management program for "LFP4S" which I
presume is the one they have selected, but don't know for sure.
all very confusing - will post the details after I have spoken with
installer. Maybe others with Enerdrive have similar settings and
aren't as inquisitive as i am.
I want to know why 14.4 isn't the criteria.
B
Check the "Battery Type" setting whether "LFP4S" has been selected (page 17). If so, check the "SYS values" corresponding to the LFP4S type (pages 19 & 20).
The battery must be fully charged 100% before connecting to the mppt solar controller. Disconnect the battery and charge it with a standard car battery charger until the battery BMS floats the battery at 13.4v/13.5v/13.6v. Allow battery to rest for two hours and check the voltage reading with multimeter and confirm the BMS float level. 13.5v would be excellent but 13.4v is also very good. Then connect the battery to the solar charger.
When you say bulk charger, do you mean a 240v charger?
Yes, that seems a correct charging system, but, I would reduce the float from 13.5v to 13.4v for longevity of battery.
Bulk charge can be varied from zero to two hours and is normally set to kick in at 13.2v.
There are variations to the settings and there are charts and opinions as to the most efficient settings found on Google.
By 11am today my 540ah of batteries were at 100% and 14.16 volts after going down to 76% overnight. Does that seem OK? Cheers
Sure does and the the voltage will settle lower at about 13.4V to 13.6 or thereabouts when not being charged. You have nothing to worry about
.
Thanks Tim, It all was set up by an acknowledged expert in Solar, but things can go wrong!
Down to 93% now, and 13.22 volts. Cheers
DickO:
That's fantastic.
The correct charging for battery has been chosen, but I don't want to interfere -
didnt know and can't see where the data can be changed. Although I note that the
manual supplied with the install is somewhat different to the one in the link that
you so kindly supplied for me.
I hope to hear back from the installer soon but I'm not holding my breath since
they are a bit lax in this department.
there's more to Lithium than meets the eye, too !!!!
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Monday 7th of August 2023 01:44:07 PM
We had the correct LFP4S.
The installer thinks that my disconnecting the battery for storage six months ago has
erased the supplementary settings on the LFP4S. I would have thought that the LFP4S
setting was all that is required, I wasn't awarte that there was supplementary settings
possible and additionally they wouldn't and shouldn't be erased by battery disconnection
for storage at reduced state of charge.
What do you think.
B
No, none of the settings should be erased by battery disconnection. The installer should be able to let you know how to add the supplementary settings to the LFP4S system. If not, the User setting could be programmed with the relevant parameters, I would think. Check the manual or the installer if this is possible. My EPEVER solar controller, VICTRON controllers and others can be programmed with various LiFeP04 parameters using the "user" option.
I have provided an example of the EPEVER default User values and my initial programmed parameter values. I should think that your system , also, should be programmable.
Your Manual and the Installer or a Grey Nomad with your solar charger should be able to shed light on this.
Perhaps let me know exactly the Brand/Model details of your solar controller to check a bit further.
Having seen the chart that you included on your post I have decided
To return the rig to the supplier/installer and let them sort it out.
Thank you for your kind assistance.
B
You have to hunt Caravan Perfection along sadly there service has gone down over the years . Keep ringing them.
For those kind people that assisted with their input for me:
As I promised, here's the good oil on the Enerdrive charging system.
I have no idea if this is how all systems operate, but would suspect that
there's likely not much variance.
As my post showed, 13.3v was the voltage all the way wether charging
or discharging or whatever.
The difference was that at 90% charge, the voltage increased "to force the current in
against increasing resistance in the battery as the % full increased".
At 95% the voltage was about 13.8v and at 98% reached the recommended 14.4v.
I had not monitored the last top of charging too diligently, expecting that
it was a pretty much linear voltage all the way.
The Enerdrive people explained the reason for all this and it made sense to me.
Now I will run the same tests with the solar chargers to see if they are the same.
One would expect so - at least hope so.
Only thing I'm not quite settled on is why a 40 amp charger only puts 30-odd
amps in throughout the cycle (except for the last couple of % charge).
Thanks all.
B
Bloody silly keyboard - I spent 20 years at a Linotype machine in a commercial
printing office - the keyboard was ETYAOIN not QWERTY - I have to retype
half of everything I key because the brain still is younger than the kdp;7f7gje. ridj4i . . . .
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Saturday 19th of August 2023 02:25:00 PM
As a LiFePO4 battery system user, that just does not make sense. The battery BMS control should be floating at 13.4V/13.5V. Voltages at around 14.4V are charging voltage and have nothing to do with the fully charged float voltage. I do not have an Everdrive charging system though. Mine is an Epever System and is similar to other Brand name charging systems. Others here can provide comments on their systems.
Maybe
I could have been a bit clearer in that the 14.4 persisted to folly charged and then for a short time then everything reverted to 13.3
(Or 13.4, cant remember) but a while later was at 13.3.
The notable fact was that the charging voltage was only at 14 plus for a relatively short time right towards the end.
To be precise, the voltage did creep an odd .1 v from high in the exercise but not anythinh like charging throughout
The while sequence at 14.4 which was what
I had expected.
B
Looks good. If the voltage (battery disconnected with no load for 1-2Hours) settled to 13.4V then that indicates the BMS is doing its job and the battery(s) is in good condition.