What is your opinion of the Medical Certificate for elderly drivers?
Brodie Allen said
08:02 PM Mar 5, 2024
For my 2-bobs worth, I think that it is as useless as proverbials on a bull.
What relevance to driving skills is:
Age - it's automatic at 70-something. Age discrimination at it's most blatent.
Memory - maths and literal test. Fail to see the relevance here too. i can't read
and I'm hopless at adds.
Test sometimes by a nurse with zero qualifications other than care of patients.
Eye test - done by RTA when issuing licences anyway.
If they really want to use relevant tests, then:
A reaction time test
A reaction to emergency evaluation
A vertigo test, and navigation in a strait line
Situation evaluation and reaction
and so-on.
Given the numbers of greys that are involved in accidents verses the number of
young hoons pranged up, i think it is highly discriminatory to dishonour elders
by putting them thru this unscientific drama every year for seemingly little reason.
Further, i contend that even if the greys are a bit dodgey, the community owes
our elders a bit of benevolence and respect as they age, within reason.
I know greys who are so intrepid and spaced out about the test coming up
that they are very likely prejudiced in the doctor's office and could well
fail the bodgie unscientific test "in the doctor's opinion" thru nerves and
worry. The older you are the more you need to get to the shops!!
What's your thoughts?
Go HERE to see how you go.
https://humanbenchmark.com/dashboard
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Tuesday 5th of March 2024 08:05:45 PM
landy said
09:24 PM Mar 5, 2024
I tend to agree with your Thoughts there Brodie but I am sure there will be some that disagree. Landy
Possum3 said
11:23 PM Mar 5, 2024
Yes it's a pain in the arse but; I believe annual medical testing does assist in preventing road trauma - I know it assists in funding my doctor's pension fund.
I am also aware that there are many that utilise "friendly" doctors to pass medical exams when in fact they shouldn't be on the road. I am similarly baffled how they can use private driving instructors that for a fee will pass a monkey in a driving test.
Don't get me started on how some people get a mobility impaired parking permit - I see them all the time at local sports club, they can play golf/tennis/cycle but utilising mobility impaired parking spaces.
Magnarc said
08:00 AM Mar 6, 2024
I guess that I could be in the category of being an "elderly" driver at the tender age of 86. I have held a driving licence since 1955 and driven just about anything on wheels. To get to your views Brodie, I would like to think that I will know when it is time to cease driving, and take the necessary steps without the need for medical intervention.
I can understand why some drivers cannot accept the fact that they are a danger on the road, to lose ones ability to get around is a decision that's hard to take for some.
Whenarewethere said
10:22 AM Mar 6, 2024
Both my Parents stopped driving of their own accord, Grandparents as well. All stopped driving at night a few years earlier.
All the older people we know have stopped driving because they feel it's all to difficult.
Even then they were all, for the last few years only driving to the shops & doctor etc, very local driving & at the quiet time of day, 10am to 2pm.
A friend lives in an area of Sydney with no public transport, she is looking at selling & moving to an area with public transport, due to her licence issues at 80 years.
Effectively she will have to pay tens of thousands of dollars in stamp duty to avoid driving!
Other half has stopped driving a few years ago even though she still has a licence. Actually she can drive a motorcycle as it was transferred from German licence, she never has! She won't even ride her push bike any more.
But she still will walk across roads within 20 metres of traffic lights. Let alone >20m.
P.S. Speaking of trying to get across the road. A few decades ago driving in Collaroy, Sydney, the car in front of me fairly suddenly stopped, also the cars in the other two lanes.
The driver got out of his car, ran around the front, he dropped down to the ground.
He raised up appearing with a baby in his arms looking around for the parent.
Turned out the baby crawled out of the house & was making its way across 6 lanes to the "beach!"
P.P.S. One of our neighbours who we knew very well & since 1989 when we bought into our block of Units, she lived in the block of Units next door & also owned a Unit in our block.
For years she had been using a mobility scooter. She rolled it a few times, in her 90ies. Her Toy Poodle was running for its life in tow at the stretched end of the leash (We helped out with a bit of personal care for her).
msg said
02:21 PM Mar 6, 2024
I object to the obligation that the Doctors have to report health issues to the Health Dept. There's quite a long list and they are adding to it all the time. So much for privacy between Dr and patient.
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 6th of March 2024 02:22:38 PM
Brodie Allen said
05:42 PM Mar 6, 2024
It's such an irrelevant content test that has so little meaning for
motor driving. Maths, number memory, and the like - goodness
knows how a poor education or 10 years sitting on one's hands
and going slow has relevance.
The link to a human benchmark on the first post has a few tests that
I believe are to be soon incorporated into a new testing programme
that Gov is working on at this moment.
What brings this matter to my attention is news that one of my
friends has had his licence cancelled by some medical person
that has no idea of the mechanics and skills of driving but is
a goo MD. Just an opinion has caused untold grief for my friend.
He's always been extremely slow in mannerisms and I have to
say, barely educated at all. His marbles have always rolled slowly.
Bloody sucks.
My test comes up soon - I will be taking the opportunity to watch
carefully and god help the doc if there's any trouble.
B
landy said
10:06 PM Mar 6, 2024
The other problem this causes is that elderly drivers will avoid going to their doctors for fear of some over zealous pill pusher will take it upon themselves to have them retested, without the doctor ever getting in a car with them.
mus429 said
01:37 PM Jun 5, 2024
As a matter of interest the University of Newcastle (England) did research some years ago into mandated maximum driving age. Without going into the massive data these research projects create, the summary result was that taking driver's licenses off old people at a specific age found that as pedestrians they were more likely to die earlier by being hit by a car.
When the University did that research the only jurisdiction in the world that had an upper limit for driving was New South Wales in Australia. No other country in the world thought mandating a maximum driving age was necessary.
Bicyclecamper said
03:32 PM Jun 5, 2024
Well, I believe in the Hazard Perception Test, so much so, that I asked the Service NSW if I could do one 2 years ago when I was 62, and they agreed, I didn't cram for it, I took it knowing I could lose my license if I failed. It was 100 questions, I got 97 right, luckily the 3 I failed were not the 40 ones you can't fail. I did the test because I thought I was losing capability. They also suggested if in the future I feel the same way, then to do the road test Version , but at this stage I haven't done one. I believe everybody with a license in Australia should be forced to do one every 5 years, both theory and road test. It would get rid of 50% of the drivers who should not be on the road, regardless of age.
Blues Man said
04:53 PM Jun 5, 2024
In QLD once you reach the age of 75 you have to have a medical certificate which is nona bad thing i think.
Meredith said
05:35 PM Jun 5, 2024
Whenarewethere wrote:
Both my Parents stopped driving of their own accord, Grandparents as well. All stopped driving at night a few years earlier.
All the older people we know have stopped driving because they feel it's all to difficult.
In Victoria there is no specific medical testing at any age for driving. My mother stopped driving of her own accord, my father sadly never made it to that age but had already reduced long drives. My father in law though refused to give up driving even thought he certainly should have, he hit a stationery bus just near his house, still insisted it wasn't his fault, wouldn't let anybody come to the doctors with him in case they bought up his poor driving and certainly wouldn't discuss it with the doctor himself. One of his children finally went around and disabled the car by disconnecting a few things to keep him and others safe.
Oka374 said
06:29 PM Jun 5, 2024
What scares me is the sight of a vehicle with large van attached driving into a drive through site or free camp where they don't have to reverse or manouvre, mum gets out and opens the van up puts the step out etc, the driver gets out hanging onto the drivers door for dear life and hand over hand or using a frame makes his way down the side of car and van around to the door and disappears inside.
They repeat the process in the morning and rive off! How on earth when you can't walk unaided can you respond to an emergency when driving!
Whenarewethere said
09:31 PM Jun 5, 2024
The number of old people (I am officially one as well with NSW $2.50 travel) in my area with pedestrian related issues... one wonders why road deaths are as low as they are.
Other half crosses road without really any care in the world. If I'm walking with her, I always say let's cross at the lights, & WAIT!... (It is a toss up between marriage death argument or road death cheese grater!)
How does one approach these issues for legal self preservation!
vanTas said
09:34 PM Jun 5, 2024
Where I am the Age-related driving test has become much simpler over recent years.
One used to have to pass an orientation and balance test. Not now. Observation of walking ability seems to be it.
Also, there were various questions about all sorts of things not connected with driving.
The test by the nurse used to take thirty minutes. Now only ten.
The Doctor bit has gotten longer though by about five minutes.
There used to be medical questionaire that had forty or so items. The nurse now asks about ten of those.
I used to have a MR licence at Commercial level. Had to pay $150 for the test.
Now just LR at private (reduced by doc due to my age - 74) so now bulk billed.
Whenarewethere said
12:13 AM Jun 6, 2024
Our neighbour who was in her 90ies, rolled her mobility scooter a few times. Everytime we saw her she was speeding with Toy Poodle in tow running for its life on taut leash to avoid cheese grater ending (went on for years).
Jet powered scooters seem to be a bit slow off the mark, but top end speed, maybe with wings would be interesting!
So hybrid mobility scooter seems to be the go. Electric motor for first 150 kph, then jet engine... for increased elevation so to speak!
Blues Man said
08:24 AM Jun 6, 2024
I want one.
Kebbin said
10:45 AM Jun 6, 2024
The rules regarding Medical Assessment are rather loose between States & Territories.
I know we all can relate to some story about an older person doing something wrong when driving and then use that as an argument for older age driving restrictions. Any data will tell you that for each older aged 'incident' there are 20 or more young driver 'incidents'. For a host of reasons this will always be the case. You can watch TV news and if someone drives into a shop, house or building and they are not 'old', the age is not raised, however if the person driving was over 70 then it will be highlighted in the news. Thus making it look like only old people do this sort of thing. Every night you can see results of stolen cars being crashed by teenagers. I understand that all those non licensed drivers are not in the crash data when comparing young licensed drivers and old drivers simply because they do not have a license.
You can't use data from car accidents that are based on injury as older people are more likely to suffer due to their physical being. Many agencies around the world have researched this topic for decades and none have found any grounds for a mandated age limit. America had the first mass driving population and after 120 years no state has a mandatory age to stop people driving. I think that tells the story.
msg said
02:55 PM Jun 6, 2024
In the ACT there is no mandatory age limit. But the list of health issues is long and must be reported by your doctor and the Govt Medical team then decides if you are fit to drive by renewing your licence (or not) So in effect you can be refused renewal just by being on a list.
Brodie Allen said
08:27 AM Jun 12, 2024
It's the irrelevant questions that are asked by untrained nurses or the like that irkes me. A bloke could well be assessed as unfit to drive because he never went to high school and is hopeless at english and maths, and speaks with a slow drawl.
If there's going to be a test, then it needs to be standardized/regulated and scored and then be passed to the authorities as is done now (In Qld). when the examiner is satisfied.
Personally I reckon that everyone should be tested for physical attributes like scene comprehension, reflexes etc as part of their initial licence tests.
I have seen it happen - an elderly bloke that surfs with me was once failed by a nurse over not being able to pass an ads question, and one other comprehension question and couldn't spell TABLES backwards.
Yet he is a very good longboard surfer, and rides with me in the Club outings.
When he's in a hurry, only a few will keep up with him. ps: he is quite safe from the wollopers with the 60 - 100 riders around him.
Brodie
What a marathon effort this post was.
Drag n drop a function long forgotten on this site?
40 years ago in South Korea you needed to understand the workings of an internal combustion engine, among other things, before you could qualify for a driving licence.
For my 2-bobs worth, I think that it is as useless as proverbials on a bull.
What relevance to driving skills is:
Age - it's automatic at 70-something. Age discrimination at it's most blatent.
Memory - maths and literal test. Fail to see the relevance here too. i can't read
and I'm hopless at adds.
Test sometimes by a nurse with zero qualifications other than care of patients.
Eye test - done by RTA when issuing licences anyway.
If they really want to use relevant tests, then:
A reaction time test
A reaction to emergency evaluation
A vertigo test, and navigation in a strait line
Situation evaluation and reaction
and so-on.
Given the numbers of greys that are involved in accidents verses the number of
young hoons pranged up, i think it is highly discriminatory to dishonour elders
by putting them thru this unscientific drama every year for seemingly little reason.
Further, i contend that even if the greys are a bit dodgey, the community owes
our elders a bit of benevolence and respect as they age, within reason.
I know greys who are so intrepid and spaced out about the test coming up
that they are very likely prejudiced in the doctor's office and could well
fail the bodgie unscientific test "in the doctor's opinion" thru nerves and
worry. The older you are the more you need to get to the shops!!
What's your thoughts?
Go HERE to see how you go.
https://humanbenchmark.com/dashboard
B
-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Tuesday 5th of March 2024 08:05:45 PM
Landy
I am also aware that there are many that utilise "friendly" doctors to pass medical exams when in fact they shouldn't be on the road. I am similarly baffled how they can use private driving instructors that for a fee will pass a monkey in a driving test.
Don't get me started on how some people get a mobility impaired parking permit - I see them all the time at local sports club, they can play golf/tennis/cycle but utilising mobility impaired parking spaces.
I guess that I could be in the category of being an "elderly" driver at the tender age of 86. I have held a driving licence since 1955 and driven just about anything on wheels. To get to your views Brodie, I would like to think that I will know when it is time to cease driving, and take the necessary steps without the need for medical intervention.
I can understand why some drivers cannot accept the fact that they are a danger on the road, to lose ones ability to get around is a decision that's hard to take for some.
Both my Parents stopped driving of their own accord, Grandparents as well. All stopped driving at night a few years earlier.
All the older people we know have stopped driving because they feel it's all to difficult.
Even then they were all, for the last few years only driving to the shops & doctor etc, very local driving & at the quiet time of day, 10am to 2pm.
A friend lives in an area of Sydney with no public transport, she is looking at selling & moving to an area with public transport, due to her licence issues at 80 years.
Effectively she will have to pay tens of thousands of dollars in stamp duty to avoid driving!
Other half has stopped driving a few years ago even though she still has a licence. Actually she can drive a motorcycle as it was transferred from German licence, she never has! She won't even ride her push bike any more.
But she still will walk across roads within 20 metres of traffic lights. Let alone >20m.
P.S. Speaking of trying to get across the road. A few decades ago driving in Collaroy, Sydney, the car in front of me fairly suddenly stopped, also the cars in the other two lanes.
The driver got out of his car, ran around the front, he dropped down to the ground.
He raised up appearing with a baby in his arms looking around for the parent.
Turned out the baby crawled out of the house & was making its way across 6 lanes to the "beach!"
P.P.S. One of our neighbours who we knew very well & since 1989 when we bought into our block of Units, she lived in the block of Units next door & also owned a Unit in our block.
For years she had been using a mobility scooter. She rolled it a few times, in her 90ies. Her Toy Poodle was running for its life in tow at the stretched end of the leash (We helped out with a bit of personal care for her).
I object to the obligation that the Doctors have to report health issues to the Health Dept. There's quite a long list and they are adding to it all the time. So much for privacy between Dr and patient.
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 6th of March 2024 02:22:38 PM
motor driving. Maths, number memory, and the like - goodness
knows how a poor education or 10 years sitting on one's hands
and going slow has relevance.
The link to a human benchmark on the first post has a few tests that
I believe are to be soon incorporated into a new testing programme
that Gov is working on at this moment.
What brings this matter to my attention is news that one of my
friends has had his licence cancelled by some medical person
that has no idea of the mechanics and skills of driving but is
a goo MD. Just an opinion has caused untold grief for my friend.
He's always been extremely slow in mannerisms and I have to
say, barely educated at all. His marbles have always rolled slowly.
Bloody sucks.
My test comes up soon - I will be taking the opportunity to watch
carefully and god help the doc if there's any trouble.
B
As a matter of interest the University of Newcastle (England) did research some years ago into mandated maximum driving age. Without going into the massive data these research projects create, the summary result was that taking driver's licenses off old people at a specific age found that as pedestrians they were more likely to die earlier by being hit by a car.
When the University did that research the only jurisdiction in the world that had an upper limit for driving was New South Wales in Australia. No other country in the world thought mandating a maximum driving age was necessary.
In QLD once you reach the age of 75 you have to have a medical certificate which is nona bad thing i think.
In Victoria there is no specific medical testing at any age for driving. My mother stopped driving of her own accord, my father sadly never made it to that age but had already reduced long drives. My father in law though refused to give up driving even thought he certainly should have, he hit a stationery bus just near his house, still insisted it wasn't his fault, wouldn't let anybody come to the doctors with him in case they bought up his poor driving and certainly wouldn't discuss it with the doctor himself. One of his children finally went around and disabled the car by disconnecting a few things to keep him and others safe.
They repeat the process in the morning and rive off! How on earth when you can't walk unaided can you respond to an emergency when driving!
The number of old people (I am officially one as well with NSW $2.50 travel) in my area with pedestrian related issues... one wonders why road deaths are as low as they are.
Other half crosses road without really any care in the world. If I'm walking with her, I always say let's cross at the lights, & WAIT!... (It is a toss up between marriage death argument or road death cheese grater!)
How does one approach these issues for legal self preservation!
Where I am the Age-related driving test has become much simpler over recent years.
One used to have to pass an orientation and balance test. Not now. Observation of walking ability seems to be it.
Also, there were various questions about all sorts of things not connected with driving.
The test by the nurse used to take thirty minutes. Now only ten.
The Doctor bit has gotten longer though by about five minutes.
There used to be medical questionaire that had forty or so items. The nurse now asks about ten of those.
I used to have a MR licence at Commercial level. Had to pay $150 for the test.
Now just LR at private (reduced by doc due to my age - 74) so now bulk billed.
Our neighbour who was in her 90ies, rolled her mobility scooter a few times. Everytime we saw her she was speeding with Toy Poodle in tow running for its life on taut leash to avoid cheese grater ending (went on for years).
Jet powered scooters seem to be a bit slow off the mark, but top end speed, maybe with wings would be interesting!
So hybrid mobility scooter seems to be the go. Electric motor for first 150 kph, then jet engine... for increased elevation so to speak!
I want one.
austroads.com.au/publications/assessing-fitness-to-drive/ap-g56/regulatory-requirements-for-driver-testing
I know we all can relate to some story about an older person doing something wrong when driving and then use that as an argument for older age driving restrictions. Any data will tell you that for each older aged 'incident' there are 20 or more young driver 'incidents'. For a host of reasons this will always be the case. You can watch TV news and if someone drives into a shop, house or building and they are not 'old', the age is not raised, however if the person driving was over 70 then it will be highlighted in the news. Thus making it look like only old people do this sort of thing. Every night you can see results of stolen cars being crashed by teenagers. I understand that all those non licensed drivers are not in the crash data when comparing young licensed drivers and old drivers simply because they do not have a license.
You can't use data from car accidents that are based on injury as older people are more likely to suffer due to their physical being. Many agencies around the world have researched this topic for decades and none have found any grounds for a mandated age limit. America had the first mass driving population and after 120 years no state has a mandatory age to stop people driving. I think that tells the story.
It's the irrelevant questions that are asked by untrained nurses or the like
that irkes me. A bloke could well be assessed as unfit to drive because he
never went to high school and is hopeless at english and maths, and speaks
with a slow drawl.
If there's going to be a test, then it needs to be standardized/regulated and
scored and then be passed to the authorities as is done now (In Qld). when
the examiner is satisfied.
Personally I reckon that everyone should be tested for physical attributes like
scene comprehension, reflexes etc as part of their initial licence tests.
I have seen it happen - an elderly bloke that surfs with me was once failed
by a nurse over not being able to pass an ads question, and one other
comprehension question and couldn't spell TABLES backwards.
Yet he is a very good longboard surfer, and rides with me in the Club outings.
When he's in a hurry, only a few will keep up with him.
ps: he is quite safe from the wollopers with the 60 - 100 riders around him.
Brodie
What a marathon effort this post was.
Drag n drop a function long forgotten on this site?
Who recognises the silver bike?