Hi , I was reading the posts about napisan instead of chemicals for camping toilets, just wondering which exact type as I couldn't see the % of sodium polycarbonate written on the bottle .
Is the the pink tub oxi action gold etc?
And was the dose 3 dessert spoons for 20 litres and do I put any in the top aswell?
Thanks
Dougwe said
06:15 PM Mar 23, 2024
Welcome to the gang Markfresh, enjoy here and out in the playground.
Those that use that stuff use the no name product, i.e. Woolies, Coles, Aldi.
Me, I have never found it works and have tried many different flavors and products but always end up back with Thetford Blue Sachets. So now just stick with the Thetford. I use a green one if emptying into a septic system though but find it not as good as the Blue one. No smells and dissolves everything in the canister ready to empty.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Are We Lost said
06:35 PM Mar 23, 2024
Sodium percarbonate works fine. I have never used Napisan. At triple the price or more of the home brand products that usually have more percentage of active ingredient I doubt I will.
Beer brewing suppliers usually have 100% sodium percarbonate.
Scubadoo said
06:46 PM Mar 23, 2024
By contrast we have been full-time travelling for the last 10 year and exclusively use sodium percarbonate without a single issue.
No objectionable smells emptying the cassette - ever.
We use whatever product is on special at the time including the pure chemical. Sard etc.
Supermarket products typically contain a 20-30% mixture.
Our method: Add a level tablespoon through the bowl hole and flush with a little water.
After each #2 add another teaspoon.
The 100% product obviously requires a little less.
A few on these forums claim that it is useless for urine only
That is not my findings at all.
Simple test: Urinate into a bottle, leave it for a day or three. Smell.
Repeat but first add a teaspoon full of the sodium percarbonate product. Smell again and now tell me it does not work.
Cupie said
08:59 PM Mar 23, 2024
When on the road for a few months I use the no name stuff with >20% active ingredient.
My method is to put a level lid full into the bowl & then add an electric jug full of warm water.
I empty the cassette every 3 or at most 4 days.
We use it for #1s & #2s.
Rarely any issues with odors except on a rare day 4 in really hot periods. I used to use a spray of eucalyptus & water for odor control but now just use the normal air freshener sprays.
If we are doing short trips I just use the back up bottle of Thelford blue that I carry.
BTW we use normal toilet paper.
PeterD said
12:14 AM Mar 24, 2024
A word of warning, if you are only urinating into the pottie, the friendly chemicals do not have any effect. Urine is fairly sterile, so there is nothing in it for the chemicals to work with. You need to have solids in it as well, to have something to be acted upon by the sodium percarbonate.
Are We Lost said
12:29 AM Mar 24, 2024
PeterD wrote:
A word of warning, if you are only urinating into the pottie, the friendly chemicals do not have any effect. Urine is fairly sterile, so there is nothing in it for the chemicals to work with. You need to have solids in it as well, to have something to be acted upon by the sodium percarbonate.
That is not my experience. Frequently the toilet may go for a few days with only urine and no solid deposits. Yet on empting it certainly does not smell like days old urine.
I am going to try the simple test suggested by Scuabadoo. Easy enough to do two bottles side by side rather than consecutively, so a direct comparison can be made.
Possum3 said
09:48 AM Mar 24, 2024
We haven't used Thetford products since 2013 being conned by Caravan Dealer - in actuality we still have some of that original purchase of additive in the shed.
Sodium Permanganate (nappy soaker) in various brands, does the job well. We do tend to use an air freshener in the bathroom after using caravan toilet, and using the toilet at home similarly.
valiant81 said
10:11 AM Mar 24, 2024
Hi all:We use the no brand nappy soaker in our toilet cassette. Have done for over 12 years now, and no problems. A good flush out with water after eptying the cassette and you are good to go .
On a side note a couple of years ago i had to replace the rubber seal on the top of the toilet cassette and i had to take the large part of the cassette off to install the replacement rubber seal. And of course i had to have a bit of a look as to the condition of the inside of the cassette. It was as clean as a new cassette. No scum around the sides and the plastic looked as new. The new seal fixed the slite leak that i had with the slide that goes across the operning, along with a spray of cooking oil to help with the valve or slide not sticking.
Cupie said
10:51 AM Mar 24, 2024
The mention of the replacement of rubber seals reminded me of advice that I got from a Telford sales person.
He suggested that the seals should be sprayed regularly with olive oil.
Before emptying the cassette, I give the bowl a good clean out with toilet cleaner gel.
After emptying & rinsing the cassette, I give all the seals & the bowl a good spray of olive oil.
Have not needed to change the seals/rubbers in >20 years.
Pradokakadudavid said
04:05 PM Mar 24, 2024
I use the normal blue Thetford liquid (160mls as per directions) but also add a few table spoons of the cheapest nappy san (get it from Woolies or Aldi) to cover the "contents" of the loo after we use it for number 2's. My wife insists on looking down the loo each time she opens the toilet gate instead of opening with your foot as I do and she complains if she inevitably sees anything sinister in there. Note we both use the caravan toilet for number 1's and 2's and have never had a problem.
The best caravan innovation I have made is to buy a spare Thetford toilet cassette and an el cheapo Bunnings plastic crate with locking lid to store it in. If required, we swap the cassettes over and place the full one in the lockable plastic crate and place it in the back of the 4x4 until we find a dump point.
woolman said
06:55 PM Mar 24, 2024
I look for the higher concentration of active ingredient, some home brands are about half strength.
The other thing is more is not better, I use about half dessert spoon once a day.
Neil
Cupie said
07:40 PM Mar 24, 2024
I find it interesting that many people seem to get good results from regular doses.
As mentioned in my previous reply, I just give it a cap full once only dose after emptying. We to use it for #1s& 2s. Empty after 3 days or max 4 if lightly used.
As a regular CP user, for my first (Main) #2 of the day I use the CP facilities. Not sure if that has an impact on the toilet's functioning
Markfresh said
11:30 PM Mar 24, 2024
Wow thank you all for the replies and the welcome.
I will have a look for the no-name brand stuff and might get some Thelford blue just in case.
I also like the spare cassette idea which could potentially avoid some drama.
Does anyone put anything in the flush water and is this worth doing for eg eucalyptus?
-- Edited by Markfresh on Sunday 24th of March 2024 11:35:26 PM
Scubadoo said
06:55 AM Mar 25, 2024
Water only for the last 10 years of use with absolutely zero issues.
The flush system had obviously not been used for a year or two prior to purchase and the water did contain a lot of black slime and gunk that took about a week of use before it ran clear never to return.
Possum3 said
08:45 AM Mar 25, 2024
Markfresh wrote:
Does anyone put anything in the flush water and is this worth doing for eg eucalyptus?
Be aware that Eucalyptus oils do irreparable damage to plastics.
There is no need to add anything to flush water.
We use "Glen 20" spray to maintain a pleasant atmosphere after use, (it is anti-bacterial as well).
67HR said
06:14 PM Mar 25, 2024
Are We Lost wrote:
Sodium percarbonate works fine. I have never used Napisan. At triple the price or more of the home brand products that usually have more percentage of active ingredient I doubt I will.
Beer brewing suppliers usually have 100% sodium percarbonate.
100% agree, we use the same and get the 100% stuff from beer brewing suppliers, mainly used for sterilising.
kgarnett said
09:42 AM Mar 26, 2024
You can buy 100% Sodium percarbonate for around $10 / kg from most home brew shops.
Much cheaper than paying the same price for aound 30% sodium percarb in the napisan type products.
Are We Lost said
11:59 PM Apr 6, 2024
Are We Lost wrote:
PeterD wrote:
A word of warning, if you are only urinating into the pottie, the friendly chemicals do not have any effect. Urine is fairly sterile, so there is nothing in it for the chemicals to work with. You need to have solids in it as well, to have something to be acted upon by the sodium percarbonate.
That is not my experience. Frequently the toilet may go for a few days with only urine and no solid deposits. Yet on empting it certainly does not smell like days old urine.
I am going to try the simple test suggested by Scuabadoo. Easy enough to do two bottles side by side rather than consecutively, so a direct comparison can be made.
Test results are in. Without a doubt Potassium Percarbonate works on urine alone.
I used 3 milk bottles and gradually topped them up progressively over a couple of days. In the first I added about half a teaspoon of the powder (32%) each time. In the second I put about 2 heaped teaspoons at the beginning but then no more. No powder in the third. In hindsight I should have tried one with a greater concentration.
After a couple of days I loosely capped the bottles (allow any gas buildup to escape) and left them a further couple of days ... ambient temperature low 20s. Then removed the caps and checked the aroma. The first two were unpleasant but acceptable. But the third.....
The memory of that is going to linger in my memory for some time. If you want to try this test, all I can say is don't let your nose get as close as I did.
So, without any possibility of doubt, it works very well on urine alone.
Cupie said
11:13 AM Apr 7, 2024
Are We Lost wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:
PeterD wrote:
A word of warning, if you are only urinating into the pottie, the friendly chemicals do not have any effect. Urine is fairly sterile, so there is nothing in it for the chemicals to work with. You need to have solids in it as well, to have something to be acted upon by the sodium percarbonate.
That is not my experience. Frequently the toilet may go for a few days with only urine and no solid deposits. Yet on empting it certainly does not smell like days old urine.
I am going to try the simple test suggested by Scuabadoo. Easy enough to do two bottles side by side rather than consecutively, so a direct comparison can be made.
Test results are in. Without a doubt Potassium Percarbonate works on urine alone.
I used 3 milk bottles and gradually topped them up progressively over a couple of days. In the first I added about half a teaspoon of the powder (32%) each time. In the second I put about 2 heaped teaspoons at the beginning but then no more. No powder in the third. In hindsight I should have tried one with a greater concentration.
After a couple of days I loosely capped the bottles (allow any gas buildup to escape) and left them a further couple of days ... ambient temperature low 20s. Then removed the caps and checked the aroma. The first two were unpleasant but acceptable. But the third.....
The memory of that is going to linger in my memory for some time. If you want to try this test, all I can say is don't let your nose get as close as I did.
So, without any possibility of doubt, it works very well on urine alone.
Well done. Thanks for sharing.
Now, in the interests of science or whatever could you please kindly carry out this experiment -
* This time use #1s & #2s
* In one sample add Sodium Percarbonate only at the start of the experiment
* In the second, add a little more Sodium Percarbonate with each addition.
* No need for a 3rd untreated sample.
* Run the test for say, 5 days.
Thank you in anticipation. Will be ever grateful for your 'contributions'.
Dick0 said
11:29 AM Apr 7, 2024
I used to use Black & Gold brand which was the cheapest and had the most percarbonate % of all the brands.
Then found I could get the Thetford Aqua Kem in liquid or sachets in bulk lots at under half retail cost on Ebay or elsewhere.
Shared the cost with other caravanning friends. Will last a long time before purchasing again.
Are We Lost said
08:34 PM Apr 7, 2024
Cupie wrote:
Now, in the interests of science or whatever could you please kindly carry out this experiment -
I think I will pass on that. The result from that 3rd bottle has turned me off doing any further experiments like that for some time.
Go for it.
Cupie said
08:36 AM Apr 8, 2024
Buggar! Another question left unanswered.
(ie should I put a shot of chemical in after every use).
Any other volunteers.
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:58 AM Apr 8, 2024
Sodium percarbonate works by releasing oxygen in contact with water. It happens quite quickly.
We add 1 teaspoon of our chosen laundry soaker with each #2, to spread the dosing over a longer period.
Another cassette trick for those inclined.
If you severely reduce putting urine into the cassette (dispose of it in other ways) and severely reduce the volume of flushing water, (but don't entirely eliminate it) it is possible to extend the emptying period of a standard 20L cassette to almost 2 weeks for 2 people. Use the sodium percarbonate as usual.
Cheers,
Peter
Cupie said
09:35 AM Apr 8, 2024
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Sodium percarbonate works by releasing oxygen in contact with water. It happens quite quickly. We add 1 teaspoon of our chosen laundry soaker with each #2, to spread the dosing over a longer period.
Another cassette trick for those inclined. If you severely reduce putting urine into the cassette (dispose of it in other ways) and severely reduce the volume of flushing water, (but don't entirely eliminate it) it is possible to extend the emptying period of a standard 20L cassette to almost 2 weeks for 2 people. Use the sodium percarbonate as usual. Cheers, Peter
Thanks for that Peter.
I'll just have to perfect the technique of pissing behind a tree or shrub in the Caravan Parks or perhaps beside the highway. LOL
The oxygen explanation rings true. I can recall people mentioning a build up of pressure in the cassette, though I thought that they had pressure relief valves.
I'll give the teaspoon a #2 a go.
Cuppa said
01:19 PM Apr 8, 2024
Have used generic nappy soaker/laundry booster for many years.
We did have a break from travelling for a year or two & when we re-commenced we found our method was not working so well. On advice from a friend who suggested we were using too much (we were using heaped teaspoons) we reduced the amount we put in & all was good again.
I wonder how many folk who try it & report that it doesnt work for them add too much?
Home brand soakers are cheap enough & come in good containers & available everywhere so although the 100% sodium percarbonate seems like a good idea, its not something weve ever bothered trying.
I recall using the Thetford chemicals on our very first trip with a porta potti in our bus. I dont recall the colour but they were the ones supplied with the Portapotti. The chemical stench inside the bus was awful, far worse than the rest of the contents, so we never used it again.
A little wipe of olive oii now & then too.
littledick said
02:33 PM Apr 8, 2024
Dougwe wrote:
Welcome to the gang Markfresh, enjoy here and out in the playground.
Those that use that stuff use the no name product, i.e. Woolies, Coles, Aldi.
Me, I have never found it works and have tried many different flavors and products but always end up back with Thetford Blue Sachets. So now just stick with the Thetford. I use a green one if emptying into a septic system though but find it not as good as the Blue one. No smells and dissolves everything in the canister ready to empty.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Tried many flavors, never thought of the taste test Doug. They never worked for us either, I use the Walex Lavender. Pee only!!
laurieoz said
10:35 AM Apr 9, 2024
Hi
Any explanation of why using too much nappysan would cause it not to work?
Laurie
Cuppa said
06:40 PM Apr 9, 2024
laurieoz wrote:
Hi
Any explanation of why using too much nappysan would cause it not to work?
Laurie
I wish I could remember Laurie. Pretty sure it was Julian Lawrence who suggested I try reducing the amount used, providing me with an explanation of why more was not better at the time, but the details have been lost to me over the years.
Those that use that stuff use the no name product, i.e. Woolies, Coles, Aldi.
Me, I have never found it works and have tried many different flavors and products but always end up back with Thetford Blue Sachets. So now just stick with the Thetford. I use a green one if emptying into a septic system though but find it not as good as the Blue one. No smells and dissolves everything in the canister ready to empty.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Beer brewing suppliers usually have 100% sodium percarbonate.
No objectionable smells emptying the cassette - ever.
We use whatever product is on special at the time including the pure chemical. Sard etc.
Supermarket products typically contain a 20-30% mixture.
Our method: Add a level tablespoon through the bowl hole and flush with a little water.
After each #2 add another teaspoon.
The 100% product obviously requires a little less.
A few on these forums claim that it is useless for urine only
That is not my findings at all.
Simple test: Urinate into a bottle, leave it for a day or three. Smell.
Repeat but first add a teaspoon full of the sodium percarbonate product. Smell again and now tell me it does not work.
When on the road for a few months I use the no name stuff with >20% active ingredient.
My method is to put a level lid full into the bowl & then add an electric jug full of warm water.
I empty the cassette every 3 or at most 4 days.
We use it for #1s & #2s.
Rarely any issues with odors except on a rare day 4 in really hot periods. I used to use a spray of eucalyptus & water for odor control but now just use the normal air freshener sprays.
If we are doing short trips I just use the back up bottle of Thelford blue that I carry.
BTW we use normal toilet paper.
That is not my experience. Frequently the toilet may go for a few days with only urine and no solid deposits. Yet on empting it certainly does not smell like days old urine.
I am going to try the simple test suggested by Scuabadoo. Easy enough to do two bottles side by side rather than consecutively, so a direct comparison can be made.
Sodium Permanganate (nappy soaker) in various brands, does the job well. We do tend to use an air freshener in the bathroom after using caravan toilet, and using the toilet at home similarly.
On a side note a couple of years ago i had to replace the rubber seal on the top of the toilet cassette and i had to take the large part of the cassette off to install the replacement rubber seal. And of course i had to have a bit of a look as to the condition of the inside of the cassette. It was as clean as a new cassette. No scum around the sides and the plastic looked as new. The new seal fixed the slite leak that i had with the slide that goes across the operning, along with a spray of cooking oil to help with the valve or slide not sticking.
The mention of the replacement of rubber seals reminded me of advice that I got from a Telford sales person.
He suggested that the seals should be sprayed regularly with olive oil.
Before emptying the cassette, I give the bowl a good clean out with toilet cleaner gel.
After emptying & rinsing the cassette, I give all the seals & the bowl a good spray of olive oil.
Have not needed to change the seals/rubbers in >20 years.
I use the normal blue Thetford liquid (160mls as per directions) but also add a few table spoons of the cheapest nappy san (get it from Woolies or Aldi) to cover the "contents" of the loo after we use it for number 2's. My wife insists on looking down the loo each time she opens the toilet gate instead of opening with your foot as I do and she complains if she inevitably sees anything sinister in there. Note we both use the caravan toilet for number 1's and 2's and have never had a problem.
The best caravan innovation I have made is to buy a spare Thetford toilet cassette and an el cheapo Bunnings plastic crate with locking lid to store it in. If required, we swap the cassettes over and place the full one in the lockable plastic crate and place it in the back of the 4x4 until we find a dump point.
I look for the higher concentration of active ingredient, some home brands are about half strength.
The other thing is more is not better, I use about half dessert spoon once a day.
Neil
I find it interesting that many people seem to get good results from regular doses.
As mentioned in my previous reply, I just give it a cap full once only dose after emptying. We to use it for #1s& 2s. Empty after 3 days or max 4 if lightly used.
As a regular CP user, for my first (Main) #2 of the day I use the CP facilities. Not sure if that has an impact on the toilet's functioning
Wow thank you all for the replies and the welcome.
I will have a look for the no-name brand stuff and might get some Thelford blue just in case.
I also like the spare cassette idea which could potentially avoid some drama.
Does anyone put anything in the flush water and is this worth doing for eg eucalyptus?
-- Edited by Markfresh on Sunday 24th of March 2024 11:35:26 PM
The flush system had obviously not been used for a year or two prior to purchase and the water did contain a lot of black slime and gunk that took about a week of use before it ran clear never to return.
Be aware that Eucalyptus oils do irreparable damage to plastics.
There is no need to add anything to flush water.
We use "Glen 20" spray to maintain a pleasant atmosphere after use, (it is anti-bacterial as well).
100% agree, we use the same and get the 100% stuff from beer brewing suppliers, mainly used for sterilising.
Much cheaper than paying the same price for aound 30% sodium percarb in the napisan type products.
Test results are in. Without a doubt Potassium Percarbonate works on urine alone.
I used 3 milk bottles and gradually topped them up progressively over a couple of days. In the first I added about half a teaspoon of the powder (32%) each time. In the second I put about 2 heaped teaspoons at the beginning but then no more. No powder in the third. In hindsight I should have tried one with a greater concentration.
After a couple of days I loosely capped the bottles (allow any gas buildup to escape) and left them a further couple of days ... ambient temperature low 20s. Then removed the caps and checked the aroma. The first two were unpleasant but acceptable. But the third.....
The memory of that is going to linger in my memory for some time. If you want to try this test, all I can say is don't let your nose get as close as I did.
So, without any possibility of doubt, it works very well on urine alone.
Well done. Thanks for sharing.
Now, in the interests of science or whatever could you please kindly carry out this experiment -
* This time use #1s & #2s
* In one sample add Sodium Percarbonate only at the start of the experiment
* In the second, add a little more Sodium Percarbonate with each addition.
* No need for a 3rd untreated sample.
* Run the test for say, 5 days.
Thank you in anticipation. Will be ever grateful for your 'contributions'.
I used to use Black & Gold brand which was the cheapest and had the most percarbonate % of all the brands.
Then found I could get the Thetford Aqua Kem in liquid or sachets in bulk lots at under half retail cost on Ebay or elsewhere.
Shared the cost with other caravanning friends. Will last a long time before purchasing again.
I think I will pass on that. The result from that 3rd bottle has turned me off doing any further experiments like that for some time.
Go for it.
Buggar! Another question left unanswered.
(ie should I put a shot of chemical in after every use).
Any other volunteers.
We add 1 teaspoon of our chosen laundry soaker with each #2, to spread the dosing over a longer period.
Another cassette trick for those inclined.
If you severely reduce putting urine into the cassette (dispose of it in other ways) and severely reduce the volume of flushing water, (but don't entirely eliminate it) it is possible to extend the emptying period of a standard 20L cassette to almost 2 weeks for 2 people. Use the sodium percarbonate as usual.
Cheers,
Peter
Thanks for that Peter.
I'll just have to perfect the technique of pissing behind a tree or shrub in the Caravan Parks or perhaps beside the highway. LOL
The oxygen explanation rings true. I can recall people mentioning a build up of pressure in the cassette, though I thought that they had pressure relief valves.
I'll give the teaspoon a #2 a go.
We did have a break from travelling for a year or two & when we re-commenced we found our method was not working so well. On advice from a friend who suggested we were using too much (we were using heaped teaspoons) we reduced the amount we put in & all was good again.
I wonder how many folk who try it & report that it doesnt work for them add too much?
Home brand soakers are cheap enough & come in good containers & available everywhere so although the 100% sodium percarbonate seems like a good idea, its not something weve ever bothered trying.
I recall using the Thetford chemicals on our very first trip with a porta potti in our bus. I dont recall the colour but they were the ones supplied with the Portapotti. The chemical stench inside the bus was awful, far worse than the rest of the contents, so we never used it again.
A little wipe of olive oii now & then too.
Tried many flavors, never thought of the taste test Doug. They never worked for us either, I use the Walex Lavender. Pee only!!
Hi
Any explanation of why using too much nappysan would cause it not to work?
Laurie
I wish I could remember Laurie. Pretty sure it was Julian Lawrence who suggested I try reducing the amount used, providing me with an explanation of why more was not better at the time, but the details have been lost to me over the years.