Asked a young lad at the servo how much for an eight and a half kilo swap gas bottle .... to which he replied - we only do 8 point 5 kilo bottles!!!! To give him credit - when I raised my eyebrows at that he did realise what he had just said lol.
Bicyclecamper said
05:00 PM Apr 30, 2024
Yes but he learnt something today, that old farts talk funny.
Corndoggy said
11:50 PM Apr 30, 2024
Years ago when doing my apprenticeship i asked another one to get me a drill bit. Lets just say it was a 3/16 "drill bit. He went away and came back with lets say a 1/2" drill bit. Given that this was around the time of the change to metric but both metric and imperial were being used. I cracked it and off I went. Boss just happened to be in the factory and heard something and came over. Better tell more of the story. At the start of my apprenticeship, the very first apprentice this company took on, a deal was made, due to my age and if they were happy with me and if I did my work that was expected I would commence on 2nd year wages, I was 20. When I turned 21 would go to an adult apprentice wage. Guess what. Did all my work, the same as the tradesman I worked with, will not say under as the work was the same. Come 21 no pay rise but stayed 2nd year. Come 12 months later and 4 new apprentice's they complained about my wage as theirs was as per year. Mine was then set to my apprenticeship year, like theirs. I did work all over that factory. Building units, building 1 offs, building specials, building prototypes, making electronic cards, testing them, producing prototype cards from exposing, etching drilling fitting components and testing them. These other four still doing monkey see monkey do work. So I did have a bee in my bonnet about the work I did and wages compared to the others.
Now back to the drills. Boss asked what's going on and I just replied these goons get paid the same as me and they can't even get me a correct drill bit. These guys were supposed to have old school form 5 and form 6 schooling. Boss looked at him and asked if this was a 3/16 "drill. He replied he didn't really know. He then went into question mode, simple maths problems and the guy couldn't answer any except the very basic of basic ones. In the end we both shook our heads and let it be. No pay rise for me though. I never found out if he every passed and completed his apprenticeship. One thing I learnt that day is some people just aren't that bright no matter what schooling level they achieved.
dorian said
06:50 AM May 1, 2024
People confuse mathematics with arithmetic. Mathematics is stuff like calculus, probability theory, and statistics. Arithmetic is basically just addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. At least, that's the way I see it.
I notice that my arithmetic computation speed has declined as I've grown older. Stuff like adding up a bunch of numbers takes quite a bit longer today than it did when I was a student. Perhaps it's partly due to the Internet. I use Google's calculator on a regular basis, mainly for unit conversions and hexadecimal calcs, but also when I'm just plain lazy.
jade007 said
01:04 PM May 1, 2024
So answer me this guys. We are told in a sum we must do the multiplication first. Who decided this. For example 5 + 2 x 10 = 70 Apparently wrong . Should be 25. Why
DMaxer said
01:12 PM May 1, 2024
5+ (2x10) = 25
rgren2 said
01:18 PM May 1, 2024
jade007 wrote:
So answer me this guys. We are told in a sum we must do the multiplication first. Who decided this. For example 5 + 2 x 10 = 70 Apparently wrong . Should be 25. Why
Because you need standards, as to who made it the standard, I dunno. Just follow the rules.
dorian said
02:03 PM May 1, 2024
jade007 wrote:
So answer me this guys. We are told in a sum we must do the multiplication first. Who decided this. For example 5 + 2 x 10 = 70 Apparently wrong . Should be 25. Why
This is an interesting question. I thought that there may have been some official standard, but it seems that the order of precedence of mathematical operations is governed by convention.
The order of operations, that is, the order in which the operations in an expression are usually performed, results from a convention adopted throughout mathematics, science, technology and many computer programming languages. It is summarized as:[2][5]
So answer me this guys. We are told in a sum we must do the multiplication first. Who decided this. For example 5 + 2 x 10 = 70 Apparently wrong . Should be 25. Why
Because the "convention" we were probably taught many years ago was based on BODMAS (or BOMDAS) which listed the order as Brackets, Orders, (Multiplication/Division) , (Add/Subtract). Since then a particularly sad section of the world has been trying to prove that they are smarter than everybody else (or that they have less of a real life than everybody else) and have been arguing for/against this convention by using ambiguous equations to "prove" their point by saying that everybody else who doesn't get their answer is wrong.
Of course, truly intelligent and smart people know that if you make the equation unambiguous in the first place by putting brackets around the parts you require to be calculated first then (assuming people can do simple equations) everybody should get same answer.
Which at the end of the day, is usually the reason why you've written the equation down in the first place.
Simon
Whenarewethere said
05:58 PM May 1, 2024
255mm tyres on 18inch rims on my car, which I can pump up at 120 litres per minute at 90psi. Air compressor has imperial connectors on metric hose.
Dick0 said
06:16 PM May 1, 2024
Whenarewethere wrote:
255mm tyres on 18inch rims on my car, which I can pump up at 120 litres per minute at 90psi. Air compressor has imperial connectors on metric hose.
Is this Arithmetic or Maths problem?
Dick0 said
06:25 PM May 1, 2024
dorian wrote:
jade007 wrote:
So answer me this guys. We are told in a sum we must do the multiplication first. Who decided this. For example 5 + 2 x 10 = 70 Apparently wrong . Should be 25. Why
This is an interesting question. I thought that there may have been some official standard, but it seems that the order of precedence of mathematical operations is governed by convention.
The order of operations, that is, the order in which the operations in an expression are usually performed, results from a convention adopted throughout mathematics, science, technology and many computer programming languages. It is summarized as:[2][5]
These are the rules, that tell us the sequence, in which we should solve an expression with multiple operations.
Whenarewethere said
06:29 PM May 1, 2024
Dick0 wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
255mm tyres on 18inch rims on my car, which I can pump up at 120 litres per minute at 90psi. Air compressor has imperial connectors on metric hose.
Is this Arithmetic or Maths problem?
Obviously both.
Corndoggy said
06:32 PM May 1, 2024
Interesting. Type both equations into my calculator and get the same result, 25. After all this time I would expect calculators to be programmed to give a correct calculations. Seems 25 is the answer. Don't argue with me, argue with HP, Samsung, Casio, Texas Instruments and all the rest. For their calculations.
Cant blame my calculator for failing form 5 math then, bugger.
Corndoggy said
06:51 PM May 1, 2024
Wife just said, she did better than me in maths, back in our our days, I can't remember that far back, we would have calculated 5+2×10=70 . This had changed by the time our kids hit school. This apparently pops up somewhere on the internet every now and then that causes some discussion. Don't know if her memory is as good, or bad as mine.
Whenarewethere said
07:01 PM May 1, 2024
Issues numbers & memory are anniversaries!
rgren2 said
07:05 PM May 1, 2024
Corndoggy wrote:
Wife just said, she did better than me in maths, back in our our days, I can't remember that far back, we would have calculated 5+2×10=70 . This had changed by the time our kids hit school. This apparently pops up somewhere on the internet every now and then that causes some discussion. Don't know if her memory is as good, or bad as mine.
I completed High School in 1969, even in primary school the order of operation was as Dick0 and Dorian have stated. I taught maths in primary and high, was always that way.
Corndoggy said
07:27 PM May 1, 2024
So this proves maths hasn't change and the wifes memory is failing too.
Thanks for that.
I dare not tell her though.
landy said
09:51 PM May 1, 2024
rgren2 wrote:
Corndoggy wrote:
Wife just said, she did better than me in maths, back in our our days, I can't remember that far back, we would have calculated 5+2×10=70 . This had changed by the time our kids hit school. This apparently pops up somewhere on the internet every now and then that causes some discussion. Don't know if her memory is as good, or bad as mine.
I completed High School in 1969, even in primary school the order of operation was as Dick0 and Dorian have stated. I taught maths in primary and high, was always that way.
Strange. I finished High School in 1964 there was never any mention of BODMAS , the order of operation was allways the order it was written.
I had never heard the term BODMAS until about 10 years ago.
Landy.
Corndoggy said
10:43 PM May 1, 2024
landy wrote:
Strange. I finished High School in 1964 there was never any mention of BODMAS , the order of operation was allways the order it was written.
I had never heard the term BODMAS until about 10 years ago.
Landy.
The plot thickens.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Wednesday 1st of May 2024 10:45:56 PM
rgren2 said
12:02 AM May 2, 2024
BODMAS is just an acronym to help students memorise the order, its a tool, the order of operation used to be taught without it, just memory.
jade007 said
05:53 AM May 2, 2024
But that is a different sum Dmaxer
-- Edited by jade007 on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 05:53:49 AM
-- Edited by jade007 on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 05:58:34 AM
ianlaw said
07:28 AM May 2, 2024
When I went to school (I finished high school in 1968) if it was in brackets it was calculated first.
5 + 2 x 10 = 70
5 + (2 x 10) = 25
Gundog said
08:45 AM May 2, 2024
If you use a simple calculator 5+2x10=70, use a scientific calculator 5+(2x10)=25 or 5+2x10=25.
So ineffect both are right one is simple arithmetric, the other is mathmatics
-- Edited by Gundog on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 08:45:40 AM
Magnarc said
09:11 AM May 2, 2024
As a school boy my maths knowledge was practically nil so, any comment from me is totally superfluous to this discussion. That being the case, I will not comment further.
Dick0 said
10:25 AM May 2, 2024
ianlaw wrote:
When I went to school (I finished high school in 1968) if it was in brackets it was calculated first.
5 + 2 x 10 = 70 5 + (2 x 10) = 25
If it wasn't in brackets already, the rule was to create the brackets and calculate first for division & multiplication as separate sums.
Dick0 said
10:27 AM May 2, 2024
Gundog wrote:
If you use a simple calculator 5+2x10=70, use a scientific calculator 5+(2x10)=25 or 5+2x10=25.
So ineffect both are right one is simple arithmetric, the other is mathmatics
-- Edited by Gundog on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 08:45:40 AM
Both are not right because the first example is not following the rules.
Corndoggy said
11:32 AM May 2, 2024
Gundog wrote:
If you use a simple calculator 5+2x10=70, use a scientific calculator 5+(2x10)=25 or 5+2x10=25.
So ineffect both are right one is simple arithmetric, the other is mathmatics
-- Edited by Gundog on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 08:45:40 AM
I tried it in a simple and scientific calculator and got the same answer, 25.
Asked a young lad at the servo how much for an eight and a half kilo swap gas bottle .... to which he replied - we only do 8 point 5 kilo bottles!!!! To give him credit - when I raised my eyebrows at that he did realise what he had just said lol.
Now back to the drills. Boss asked what's going on and I just replied these goons get paid the same as me and they can't even get me a correct drill bit. These guys were supposed to have old school form 5 and form 6 schooling. Boss looked at him and asked if this was a 3/16 "drill. He replied he didn't really know. He then went into question mode, simple maths problems and the guy couldn't answer any except the very basic of basic ones. In the end we both shook our heads and let it be. No pay rise for me though. I never found out if he every passed and completed his apprenticeship. One thing I learnt that day is some people just aren't that bright no matter what schooling level they achieved.
I notice that my arithmetic computation speed has declined as I've grown older. Stuff like adding up a bunch of numbers takes quite a bit longer today than it did when I was a student. Perhaps it's partly due to the Internet. I use Google's calculator on a regular basis, mainly for unit conversions and hexadecimal calcs, but also when I'm just plain lazy.
Because you need standards, as to who made it the standard, I dunno. Just follow the rules.
This is an interesting question. I thought that there may have been some official standard, but it seems that the order of precedence of mathematical operations is governed by convention.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations
The order of operations, that is, the order in which the operations in an expression are usually performed, results from a convention adopted throughout mathematics, science, technology and many computer programming languages. It is summarized as:[2][5]
Because the "convention" we were probably taught many years ago was based on BODMAS (or BOMDAS) which listed the order as Brackets, Orders, (Multiplication/Division) , (Add/Subtract). Since then a particularly sad section of the world has been trying to prove that they are smarter than everybody else (or that they have less of a real life than everybody else) and have been arguing for/against this convention by using ambiguous equations to "prove" their point by saying that everybody else who doesn't get their answer is wrong.
Of course, truly intelligent and smart people know that if you make the equation unambiguous in the first place by putting brackets around the parts you require to be calculated first then (assuming people can do simple equations) everybody should get same answer.
Which at the end of the day, is usually the reason why you've written the equation down in the first place.
Simon
255mm tyres on 18inch rims on my car, which I can pump up at 120 litres per minute at 90psi. Air compressor has imperial connectors on metric hose.
Is this Arithmetic or Maths problem?
Yep.
These are the rules, that tell us the sequence, in which we should solve an expression with multiple operations.
Obviously both.
The phone gets it right.
Issues numbers & memory are anniversaries!
I completed High School in 1969, even in primary school the order of operation was as Dick0 and Dorian have stated. I taught maths in primary and high, was always that way.
Thanks for that.
I dare not tell her though.
Strange. I finished High School in 1964 there was never any mention of BODMAS , the order of operation was allways the order it was written.
I had never heard the term BODMAS until about 10 years ago.
Landy.
landy wrote:
Strange. I finished High School in 1964 there was never any mention of BODMAS , the order of operation was allways the order it was written.
I had never heard the term BODMAS until about 10 years ago.
Landy.
The plot thickens.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Wednesday 1st of May 2024 10:45:56 PM
But that is a different sum Dmaxer
-- Edited by jade007 on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 05:53:49 AM
-- Edited by jade007 on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 05:58:34 AM
5 + 2 x 10 = 70
5 + (2 x 10) = 25
If you use a simple calculator 5+2x10=70, use a scientific calculator 5+(2x10)=25 or 5+2x10=25.
So ineffect both are right one is simple arithmetric, the other is mathmatics
-- Edited by Gundog on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 08:45:40 AM
As a school boy my maths knowledge was practically nil so, any comment from me is totally superfluous to this discussion. That being the case, I will not comment further.
If it wasn't in brackets already, the rule was to create the brackets and calculate first for division & multiplication as separate sums.
Both are not right because the first example is not following the rules.
I tried it in a simple and scientific calculator and got the same answer, 25.
Just give me back my slide ruler.
Anyone remember how to use one of them?