I am a KIWI about to retire and spend the next two years travelling your beautiful country with my wife in a new caravan. I am at the stage I need to sign off on our tow vehicle , I know that GVM, GTM etc have been discussed at length so apologies for bringing it up again. I had pretty much signed off on a 2018 VX Landcruiser but I have received a spreadsheet that indicates it could be touch and go with weight and towing legally. It indicates that the Ford Ranger Wildtrak would be a safer bet. Given the cost of the Landcruiser I do not want to make a mistake by purchasing the wrong vehicle. Caravan Tare 2800 ATM 3500 GTM 3300 Ball 200
Also we pick the caravan up in Melbourne in mid June and intend to head up to the Sunshine Coast, at that time of year which route would be the best. We are not in any hurry. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
NERF
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:33 PM May 1, 2024
My personal advice would be to stick with the Landcruiser but buy a smaller and lighter van which will provide many more options on where in this huge country you can travel.
In particular, the tare of the van is much too high and its load capacity is too low for a "live-in" rig. You risk being overloaded irrespective of the tow vehicle.
No point in having a rig that can not go to the best parts of the country.
Cheers,
Peter
Are We Lost said
02:50 PM May 1, 2024
I mostly agree with Peter. The Landcruiser is a great tow vehicle up to a point, but no way with a 3500kg van. The same for the Ranger. The LC limitation is the low payload. When laden for full time travel it is too hard to avoid overloading the rear axle. The Ranger can carry more load but not while towing such a heavy van.
The van's 200kg specified ball weight is no doubt when empty as it left the factory. When it is laden the towball load is probably much greater. Ideally, it should be around 10% of the van's laden weight, so at least 300kg. That puts about 425kg+ weight on the rear axle. So depending on model of LC you only have 200kg available for passengers and everything you carry .... except it can't all be on the rear wheels. So it is impractical.
The new V6 Ranger gets closer, but the GCM of 6400kg is still not enough for such a heavy van. Legally it could do it, but then the Ranger would have to be under 2900kg laden. The towing vehicle should be heavier than what it tows.
Have a read of all the discussions in the Techies Corner/Weights and Measures section.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Wednesday 1st of May 2024 02:51:06 PM
Possum3 said
03:07 PM May 1, 2024
Welcome to the Forum, My two bobs worth:- A Y62 Patrol will legally tow 3,500Kg and has better fuel economy than a Landcruiser - It is fast becoming the preferred 4WD in the bush.
Rodsvan said
05:12 AM May 2, 2024
There have been some reports of transmission failure in the Y62 Patrols when used for towing heavy caravans regularly. Some transmission specialists have said that they are seeing this regularly even with a aftermarket transmission cooler. If you search on caravannersforum.com you can find out more.
And before I get bombarded by Patrol fans - yes I know it hasn't happened to all and not to yours etc etc.
Unfortunately most vehicles types will have some known mechanical issues, particularly with regular heavy towing. It's probably a matter of determining what they are and if they can be prevented by extra maintenance or modifications.
I agree with what others have said regarding limitations with most common tow vehicles and vans weighing up to 3,500kg. My own view is that the best options for a van that heavy are some of the larger American pickups or light trucks (and with either there are some compromises). I drive a BT50 ute and need to carry some items in the tub so I ended up choosing a van with a fully loaded weight of 2,650kg to keep within GCM and rear axle weight limits.
Gundog said
08:19 AM May 2, 2024
Are We Lost wrote:
I mostly agree with Peter. The Landcruiser is a great tow vehicle up to a point, but no way with a 3500kg van. The same for the Ranger. The LC limitation is the low payload. When laden for full time travel it is too hard to avoid overloading the rear axle. The Ranger can carry more load but not while towing such a heavy van.
The van's 200kg specified ball weight is no doubt when empty as it left the factory. When it is laden the towball load is probably much greater. Ideally, it should be around 10% of the van's laden weight, so at least 300kg. That puts about 425kg+ weight on the rear axle. So depending on model of LC you only have 200kg available for passengers and everything you carry .... except it can't all be on the rear wheels. So it is impractical.
The new V6 Ranger gets closer, but the GCM of 6400kg is still not enough for such a heavy van. Legally it could do it, but then the Ranger would have to be under 2900kg laden. The towing vehicle should be heavier than what it tows.
Have a read of all the discussions in the Techies Corner/Weights and Measures section.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Wednesday 1st of May 2024 02:51:06 PM
While some of your points are revelent, the disturbing one's are the opinion based one's like the tow vehicle must be heavier than the towed load, even Toyota Australia's towing guide accepts that the towed load can be heavier, and suggest extra precutions when doing so.
Right back to first PX Ranger to the current models they all can tow a 3500kg ATM van legally and safely, there are thousands of popular twin cab utes with a 3500kg towing capacity out there just doing that every day.
Unfortunatly the The weights and measures section, is some good information but that is overpopulated with opinions being proported to facts.
Personally I like the LC series, for me the limited load space is its biggest issue if you are going on an extended journey of discovery living in your van, I think Utes can offer better load carring options but becareful not to exceed axle weights.
NERF said
08:56 AM May 2, 2024
Thank you Guru , The LC I have my eye on has a 3950 GVM upgrade , does this alter the specs at all?
peter67 said
09:26 AM May 2, 2024
Spot on Rodsvan, no matter how you try to mitigate the problem, the heavier part of the towing combination always gets its way sooner or later.
Are We Lost said
11:59 AM May 2, 2024
Gundog wrote:Right back to first PX Ranger to the current models they all can tow a 3500kg ATM van legally and safely, there are thousands of popular twin cab utes with a 3500kg towing capacity out there just doing that every day.
Unfortunatly the The weights and measures section, is some good information but that is overpopulated with opinions being proported to facts.
It may be legal to tow such a vehicle home from the dealership but impractical and dangerous for travelling. The Ranger has 6000kg GCM (the maximum weight of the combined rig) and this is fairly common in that range. That means to tow a 3500kg van the Ranger can only weigh a maximum of 2500kg. So, with passengers and a few nick nacks in the back you have reached the limit. But towing a van 1000kg heavier than the tow vehicle at highway speeds is a disaster waiting to happen. The heavier the tow vehicle in comparison to the van, the better it is able to control the van if sway starts to develop. Caravan Council of Australia (often quoted for respected advice) recommend the tow vehicle be 30% heavier than what it tows. I think that is a little too conservative but it would be a safer combination.
The LC does have an advantage over the Ranger because it is heavier to start with, but the low rear axle capacity is its limiting factor. When laden for an extended trip a LC can not legally tow my van (ATM 3200kg laden to 3000kg), but my 2018 Ranger can. With towball load of over 300kg plus camping and fishing gear, portable solar, tools and spares and a little spare fuel and water I am close to breaching the Ranger's rear axle limit. Not possible to achieve that with the LC. That is fact, not opinion.
Anyway, I will leave it there rather than belabouring the point.
Are We Lost said
12:12 PM May 2, 2024
NERF wrote:
Thank you Guru , The LC I have my eye on has a 3950 GVM upgrade , does this alter the specs at all?
I depends on whether the rear axle limit is higher. From memory it is 1950kg as standard. Has this vehicle any fitted accessories that would eat into the available payload? You need to work out the weight of everything you want to carry in the back.
A rule of thumb for the towball load (assuming at least 300kg) is that it will add between 140-150% of that weight to the rear axle load due to the leverage effect.
Gundog said
12:33 PM May 2, 2024
Are We Lost wrote:
It may be legal to tow such a vehicle home from the dealership but impractical and dangerous for travelling. The Ranger has 6000kg GCM (the maximum weight of the combined rig) and this is fairly common in that range. That means to tow a 3500kg van the Ranger can only weigh a maximum of 2500kg. So, with passengers and a few nick nacks in the back you have reached the limit. But towing a van 1000kg heavier than the tow vehicle at highway speeds is a disaster waiting to happen. The heavier the tow vehicle in comparison to the van, the better it is able to control the van if sway starts to develop. Caravan Council of Australia (often quoted for respected advice) recommend the tow vehicle be 30% heavier than what it tows. I think that is a little too conservative but it would be a safer combination.
Ding Dong your wrong again.........its actuall 2850 and 3150 in the real world 300kg is not that big a deal. Oh the CCofA is a fancy name for a council of 1 person.
montie said
02:21 PM May 2, 2024
Are We Lost wrote:
Gundog wrote:Right back to first PX Ranger to the current models they all can tow a 3500kg ATM van legally and safely, there are thousands of popular twin cab utes with a 3500kg towing capacity out there just doing that every day.
Unfortunatly the The weights and measures section, is some good information but that is overpopulated with opinions being proported to facts.
It may be legal to tow such a vehicle home from the dealership but impractical and dangerous for travelling. The Ranger has 6000kg GCM (the maximum weight of the combined rig) and this is fairly common in that range. That means to tow a 3500kg van the Ranger can only weigh a maximum of 2500kg. So, with passengers and a few nick nacks in the back you have reached the limit. But towing a van 1000kg heavier than the tow vehicle at highway speeds is a disaster waiting to happen. The heavier the tow vehicle in comparison to the van, the better it is able to control the van if sway starts to develop. Caravan Council of Australia (often quoted for respected advice) recommend the tow vehicle be 30% heavier than what it tows. I think that is a little too conservative but it would be a safer combination.
The LC does have an advantage over the Ranger because it is heavier to start with, but the low rear axle capacity is its limiting factor. When laden for an extended trip a LC can not legally tow my van (ATM 3200kg laden to 3000kg), but my 2018 Ranger can. With towball load of over 300kg plus camping and fishing gear, portable solar, tools and spares and a little spare fuel and water I am close to breaching the Ranger's rear axle limit. Not possible to achieve that with the LC. That is fact, not opinion.
Anyway, I will leave it there rather than belabouring the point.
It can only weigh a maximum of 2500kg plus ball download of approx 300kg.
I agree, that van is too heavy for a Ford Ranger.
-- Edited by montie on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 02:23:06 PM
-- Edited by montie on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 03:31:31 PM
Are We Lost said
02:33 PM May 2, 2024
montie wrote:
It can only weigh a maximum of 2500kg inc ball download of approx 300kg.
I believe you are counting the ball weight twice. If the GCM is 6000kg and the van is fully laden to 3500kg, the Ranger can weigh a maximum of 2500kg (while disconnected). A ball weight of 300kg would make the weight on Ranger wheels 2800kg and the van wheels 3200kg. Both within specs and legal but far from safe.
montie said
03:30 PM May 2, 2024
Are We Lost wrote:
montie wrote:
It can only weigh a maximum of 2500kg inc ball download of approx 300kg.
I believe you are counting the ball weight twice. If the GCM is 6000kg and the van is fully laden to 3500kg, the Ranger can weigh a maximum of 2500kg (while disconnected). A ball weight of 300kg would make the weight on Ranger wheels 2800kg and the van wheels 3200kg. Both within specs and legal but far from safe.
If the ranger weighs 2500kg unhitched that will increase to 2850kg when you hook up. If the van is fully loaded your GTM will then be 3150kg giving you a combined weight of 6000kg which is the limit. Assuming a 350kg ball weight. Very little payload left in the tug (I think tare weight around 2200kg) and 2850kg towing 3150kg not ideal.
Sorry earlier post should be plus (not inc) ball download.
peter67 said
09:16 AM May 3, 2024
Why don't more people buy a light truck which is made for towing heavy caravans, with plenty of room for margin and less strain on the vehicle. Who buys anything with the intention of stressing it to the maximum every inch of road travelled, surely damages your flimsy dual cab ute mechanically, engine, suspension and chassis wise.
The chassis rails in particular on dual cab utes because the rear wheels are so far forward from the rear axle centre line giving any tow ball load tremendous leverage on the chassis rails and rear axle. Plenty of bent dual cab chassis from just this thing, google bent dual cab chassis to see lots of them.
KJB said
09:47 AM May 3, 2024
Don't send a boy to do a man's job...........
Big truck , small load - less wear and tear, less running costs, increased life and much more user friendly........
Warren-Pat_01 said
04:05 PM May 5, 2024
NERF,
I assume you've heard of Ned Kelly - an infamous Australian Bushranger. There's a saying "As game as Ned Kelly" & after reading the above that saying, if that's what you intend doing applies to you.
Perhaps I'm being conservative but I'm happy with our 2000kg 17'10" pop-top caravan. I have no ambition to break either the car or the caravan is some isolated location as recovery is too inconvenient & expensive. Our previous "house on wheels" was a Jayco Eagle Outback camper & we spent considerable time in it on two WA trips (we live in Townsville) - one to the north, one to the south. Due to circumstances, we missed out on the Pilbara area. We spoke to another couple at Esperance who were travelling in something considerably larger about 24' long. The "lady of the house" suggested she couldn't travel the way we were without all the facilities that she had!
While you're planning on living in a van for an extended period, I'd suggest you do an audit on what you need to carry, where you want to go & buy accordingly but I fear that's a bit late now. You won't need a Bushtracker to drive to the Sunshine Coast.
And for your route - if you haven't been to Australia before, I'd suggest remaining on Highway 1 where possible (I prefer inland routes) - but be careful. Again, it depends on what you want to see. There are good, bad & dangerous sections, along with lots of idiots who "have to pass that caravan, truck in front of them" without considering what might be coming. The best advice - Drive to conditions.
Greg 1 said
05:29 PM May 6, 2024
I have been towing with a PX Ranger for some time now.
I can tell you that with that van you will be over weight.
My van goes 2980kgs fully laden and the Ranger is usually just on 3100kgs when I set off and I am just a handful of kilos under the legal maximum.
With the new V6 Ranger they have upgraded the GCM to 6400kgs, but not all of that is usable because the kerb weight of the vehicle is about 100kgs heavier than my 3.2litre Wildtrak.
So the gain may give you about an extra 250 to 300kgs but you are still not there to tow 3500kgs in any practical sense.
The fact that the Ranger may physically tow it is entirely irrelevant.
It must be able to tow it within the limitations of weight placed upon it.
Yes there maybe people out there with a large offroad van weighing in at 3500kgs and with everything bar the kitchen sink loaded on their vehicles and the vehicle is doing it, but the day is rapidly approaching that the law will catch up with them and they will be stopped and allowed to go no further.
Buy something that is going to be legal fully laden. Don't risk being stranded on the side of the road waving a hefty fine, or worse still breaking something that takes you off the road in a roll over.
Are We Lost said
06:11 PM May 6, 2024
Something that nobody has mentioned so far .... the level of experience you have with towing a caravan.
If you do not have much experience then the concerns raised here should be heeded much more. All those videos you see about van rollovers probably started the day with the driver thinking everything was fine. Yet sometimes things go wrong, and with a heavy van pushing the tow vehicle around, and sway begins, getting it under control again is far from easy if not impossible, let alone for a beginner. The less experience, the more care needs to be applied.
Perhaps you could come back to let us know if you are committed to this van or can choose something more appropriate. If you are committed then I think you should be looking at light trucks as the tow vehicle. Earlier Possum referred to Nissan Y62 which does have a good reputation. Yet with all the stuff you will be carrying for living a life on the road I doubt that would work.
gold dandelion said
09:57 PM May 6, 2024
I believe the Wildtrak is not rated as high as a GXL,
Hi Grey Nomads
I am a KIWI about to retire and spend the next two years travelling your beautiful country with my wife in a new caravan. I am at the stage I need to sign off on our tow vehicle , I know that GVM, GTM etc have been discussed at length so apologies for bringing it up again. I had pretty much signed off on a 2018 VX Landcruiser but I have received a spreadsheet that indicates it could be touch and go with weight and towing legally. It indicates that the Ford Ranger Wildtrak would be a safer bet. Given the cost of the Landcruiser I do not want to make a mistake by purchasing the wrong vehicle. Caravan Tare 2800 ATM 3500 GTM 3300 Ball 200
Also we pick the caravan up in Melbourne in mid June and intend to head up to the Sunshine Coast, at that time of year which route would be the best. We are not in any hurry. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
NERF
In particular, the tare of the van is much too high and its load capacity is too low for a "live-in" rig. You risk being overloaded irrespective of the tow vehicle.
No point in having a rig that can not go to the best parts of the country.
Cheers,
Peter
I mostly agree with Peter. The Landcruiser is a great tow vehicle up to a point, but no way with a 3500kg van. The same for the Ranger. The LC limitation is the low payload. When laden for full time travel it is too hard to avoid overloading the rear axle. The Ranger can carry more load but not while towing such a heavy van.
The van's 200kg specified ball weight is no doubt when empty as it left the factory. When it is laden the towball load is probably much greater. Ideally, it should be around 10% of the van's laden weight, so at least 300kg. That puts about 425kg+ weight on the rear axle. So depending on model of LC you only have 200kg available for passengers and everything you carry .... except it can't all be on the rear wheels. So it is impractical.
The new V6 Ranger gets closer, but the GCM of 6400kg is still not enough for such a heavy van. Legally it could do it, but then the Ranger would have to be under 2900kg laden. The towing vehicle should be heavier than what it tows.
Have a read of all the discussions in the Techies Corner/Weights and Measures section.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Wednesday 1st of May 2024 02:51:06 PM
While some of your points are revelent, the disturbing one's are the opinion based one's like the tow vehicle must be heavier than the towed load, even Toyota Australia's towing guide accepts that the towed load can be heavier, and suggest extra precutions when doing so.
Right back to first PX Ranger to the current models they all can tow a 3500kg ATM van legally and safely, there are thousands of popular twin cab utes with a 3500kg towing capacity out there just doing that every day.
Unfortunatly the The weights and measures section, is some good information but that is overpopulated with opinions being proported to facts.
Personally I like the LC series, for me the limited load space is its biggest issue if you are going on an extended journey of discovery living in your van, I think Utes can offer better load carring options but becareful not to exceed axle weights.
It may be legal to tow such a vehicle home from the dealership but impractical and dangerous for travelling. The Ranger has 6000kg GCM (the maximum weight of the combined rig) and this is fairly common in that range. That means to tow a 3500kg van the Ranger can only weigh a maximum of 2500kg. So, with passengers and a few nick nacks in the back you have reached the limit. But towing a van 1000kg heavier than the tow vehicle at highway speeds is a disaster waiting to happen. The heavier the tow vehicle in comparison to the van, the better it is able to control the van if sway starts to develop. Caravan Council of Australia (often quoted for respected advice) recommend the tow vehicle be 30% heavier than what it tows. I think that is a little too conservative but it would be a safer combination.
The LC does have an advantage over the Ranger because it is heavier to start with, but the low rear axle capacity is its limiting factor. When laden for an extended trip a LC can not legally tow my van (ATM 3200kg laden to 3000kg), but my 2018 Ranger can. With towball load of over 300kg plus camping and fishing gear, portable solar, tools and spares and a little spare fuel and water I am close to breaching the Ranger's rear axle limit. Not possible to achieve that with the LC. That is fact, not opinion.
Anyway, I will leave it there rather than belabouring the point.
I depends on whether the rear axle limit is higher. From memory it is 1950kg as standard. Has this vehicle any fitted accessories that would eat into the available payload? You need to work out the weight of everything you want to carry in the back.
A rule of thumb for the towball load (assuming at least 300kg) is that it will add between 140-150% of that weight to the rear axle load due to the leverage effect.
-- Edited by montie on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 02:23:06 PM
-- Edited by montie on Thursday 2nd of May 2024 03:31:31 PM
If the ranger weighs 2500kg unhitched that will increase to 2850kg when you hook up. If the van is fully loaded your GTM will then be 3150kg giving you a combined weight of 6000kg which is the limit. Assuming a 350kg ball weight. Very little payload left in the tug (I think tare weight around 2200kg) and 2850kg towing 3150kg not ideal.
Sorry earlier post should be plus (not inc) ball download.
The chassis rails in particular on dual cab utes because the rear wheels are so far forward from the rear axle centre line giving any tow ball load tremendous leverage on the chassis rails and rear axle. Plenty of bent dual cab chassis from just this thing, google bent dual cab chassis to see lots of them.
Don't send a boy to do a man's job...........
Big truck , small load - less wear and tear, less running costs, increased life and much more user friendly........
I assume you've heard of Ned Kelly - an infamous Australian Bushranger. There's a saying "As game as Ned Kelly" & after reading the above that saying, if that's what you intend doing applies to you.
Perhaps I'm being conservative but I'm happy with our 2000kg 17'10" pop-top caravan. I have no ambition to break either the car or the caravan is some isolated location as recovery is too inconvenient & expensive. Our previous "house on wheels" was a Jayco Eagle Outback camper & we spent considerable time in it on two WA trips (we live in Townsville) - one to the north, one to the south. Due to circumstances, we missed out on the Pilbara area. We spoke to another couple at Esperance who were travelling in something considerably larger about 24' long. The "lady of the house" suggested she couldn't travel the way we were without all the facilities that she had!
While you're planning on living in a van for an extended period, I'd suggest you do an audit on what you need to carry, where you want to go & buy accordingly but I fear that's a bit late now. You won't need a Bushtracker to drive to the Sunshine Coast.
And for your route - if you haven't been to Australia before, I'd suggest remaining on Highway 1 where possible (I prefer inland routes) - but be careful. Again, it depends on what you want to see. There are good, bad & dangerous sections, along with lots of idiots who "have to pass that caravan, truck in front of them" without considering what might be coming. The best advice - Drive to conditions.
If you do not have much experience then the concerns raised here should be heeded much more. All those videos you see about van rollovers probably started the day with the driver thinking everything was fine. Yet sometimes things go wrong, and with a heavy van pushing the tow vehicle around, and sway begins, getting it under control again is far from easy if not impossible, let alone for a beginner. The less experience, the more care needs to be applied.
Perhaps you could come back to let us know if you are committed to this van or can choose something more appropriate. If you are committed then I think you should be looking at light trucks as the tow vehicle. Earlier Possum referred to Nissan Y62 which does have a good reputation. Yet with all the stuff you will be carrying for living a life on the road I doubt that would work.