I received this email from a friend this afternoon and thought I would pass it along to you all. Should make for an interesting discussion. I might add that these may OR may not be my thoughts, our thoughts are our own and we are entitled to think what we like.
Over to you ..................Ma
Regarding Our National Anthem I am sorry, but after hearing they want to sing the National Anthem in Arabic- enough is enough.
No where or at no other time in our nation's history, did they sing it in Italian, Japanese, Polish, Irish (Celtic), German, Portuguese, Greek, or any other language because of immigration.
It was written in English, and should be sung word for word the way it was written. The news broadcasts even gave the translation -- not even close. I am not sorry if this offends anyone, this is MY COUNTRY - IF IT IS YOUR COUNTRY SPEAK UP I am not against immigration -- just come through like everyone else.
Get a sponsor; have a place to lay your head; have a job; pay your taxes, live by the rules AND LEARN THE LANGUAGE as all other immigrants have in the past -- and LONG LIVE Australia ! PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Think about this:
If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone-----YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !!!! Will we only remain the Country of Choice and still be Australia, if we stop the changes being forced on us by the people from other countries who have come to live in Australia, because it is the Country of Choice?? Think about it! IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. It is Time forAustraliato Speak up.
Gary and Kerry said
07:40 PM Oct 7, 2009
Australia.............. LOVE IT OR LEAVE
Basil Faulty said
07:55 PM Oct 7, 2009
While I may or may not agree with these sentiments I do agree with the sentiment that if you don't like it then leave. Singing the National Anthem in Arabic??? Yeah well why not; you can get a drivers licence using a skilled interpreter who amazingly answers all the questions correctly on your behalf. Now to be strictly correct the National Anthem is sung in German by some Freemasons in SA, remember however that it was a German who composed "Song of Australia".
On the whole Muslims are not a bad bunch, it's their clerics who rule them with a regime of fear and ridicule who are the problem and due to their cultural beliefs the rank and file follow.
I was gobbsmacked when the head Muslim Cretin in Sydney made the remarks about women then went on to explain that ALL WOMEN should be "sewn up" so that their husband can ritually re open them on their marriage night with a "dagger", how sadistic is that? And why don't the women speak up? I find the whole thing incomprehensible and even further I find it abomnible that the god fearing Christians stand by and say nothing either but have a good old whinge if there is a bare breast on TV...
dave06 said
08:11 PM Oct 7, 2009
ritually reopen them, good god if mine was sewn up I'd be a happy man and leave it shut................................... Ohhhhhhh!!! you mean the other end!!! my mistake, sorry
brickies said
08:15 PM Oct 7, 2009
Lots of FURPHY do the rounds on the email never tell us who made what statement , i would be pleased that anybody would want to sing the National Anthem no matter what language
Disco Duck said
08:53 PM Oct 7, 2009
Onya DaveO :) :)
I think the Dragon would stitch you up first mate. Better watch it!!
ibbo said
10:03 PM Oct 7, 2009
I agree with you Brickies.As long as the Anthem is sung with respect to Australia.Cheers.Ibbo.
Ma said
11:02 PM Oct 7, 2009
Isn't this just the best country to live in. Freedom of speech and respect for differing views. ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR!!
dave06 said
10:21 AM Oct 8, 2009
tell ya what Ducky it would be a brave man that came at the dragon with a needle and thread, he would be seeing allah and getting his virgins pretty damn early I can guarantee that,
shes not a big girl but by hell she's a monster inside when her danders up, I know what would be sewn up and it would involve a needle a doodle and a top lip and a lot of screaming
pretty much the same as any aussie girl we instill them with self awareness and respect for themselves and not to be downtrodden, we instill our kids (boys and girls) with self pride and understanding of others and then along come these fools and their outlandish backward thirdworld ways and expect us to fall in line with their beliefs
mate I am and always will be an aussie, I'm not muslim, not particularly catholic or protestent, I do believe in a greater power and I often feel it behind the ear when I go astray
I believe that coming to our fantastic land is a privilige that quite simply some do not deserve, I believe when stepping foot on our great southern land all non australian conforming beliefs should be left at the door
I believe that a test should be passed whereupon a "normal" person asks the questions
sample (1a) critical question, do you speak english.......immediate denial if answer is no!
(1) do you like beer/wine and chops and acting obnoxiously at barbyq's........immediate disqualification if answer is no
(2) do you hit, demean, belittle or abuse woman, girls or little boys, are you likely to in the future......death penalty if answer is yes to any, no going back from that one
(3) are you willing to forgo all the bad points of your religion, bad points as determined by normal everyday australian woman and not the goody two shoes brigade
(4) do you promise not to slit our throats as we sleep, we are not fond of that!
(5) do you promise not to blow up any of our buildings, especially our pubs, we may grant a point of clarification if it happens to be a parliament house
(6) do you promise to integrate into our society and not group into one sector
(7) do you promise to actually get a real job and not rob us blind through social security benefits
(8) will you promise to be an active valuable member of our community and not a drain on our health or welfare system
(9) do you promise to leave your burker at the gate and become an everyday dinky di aussie sheila and not take any crap from your husband/boyfriend or family
(10) do you promise to limit your child bearing capabilities to two and not 500
just a sample of what I would be asking, not taking into account some of the harder ones
I have just reread my post and thought it may come across as racist, I would just like to add that I would be proud to stand next to a person of either sex from any other country and sing our anthem (if I knew the words) in any language
I know it's got "girt" by sea, who the hell is "girt" anyway and why is she always by the sea
at our table almost any night our guest list contains at least two muslims and many varied and differing religions, we love them to death as with all our other "foreigners"
the affection for us and our country is returned tenfold, they feel extremly priviliged and blessed to live in the land down under and not only follow the aforementioned rules but embrace them with pride
anyway that's the thought of the day from unca Dave, better get back to work now or I may have to emigrate and assimilate to another belief,
hawaii would be hard, all those grass skirts, wheres my whipper snipper heh! heh! heh!
-- Edited by dave06 on Thursday 8th of October 2009 10:42:45 AM
JRH said
05:41 PM Oct 8, 2009
I received this a while ago and I think it says it all. I hope it does not offend anyone, it is a subject I feel rather strongly about.
Australia- The Right to Leave
Our Country - YOU Have the right - the right to leave !
After Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights.
After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered.
This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen. Published in an Australian newspaper. Quote:
IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It ! I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.
However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.
However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.
This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.
This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is part of our culture.
If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, And we really don't care how you did things where you came from.
This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.
But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"
If you aren't happy here then Bugger off! We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.
-- Edited by JRH on Thursday 8th of October 2009 04:41:59 PM
suenami said
09:04 PM Oct 8, 2009
brickies wrote:
Lots of FURPHY do the rounds on the email never tell us who made what statement , i would be pleased that anybody would want to sing the National Anthem no matter what language
Lots and lots of FURPHIES - bit like the media, when they're bored....
Ma said
09:40 PM Oct 8, 2009
Well Said JRH. I agree wholeheartedly. This puts on paper what a lot of us think. GO AUSTRALIA !! AND AUSTRALIANS ....... this means Immigrants who want to adopt all the things you have identified as well...........adopt our country, way of life and principles and you can then call yourselves AUSTRALIANS.
DellieMay said
10:29 PM Oct 8, 2009
HEAR!!!!!HEAR!!!!!!HEAR!!!!!!. Proud to be Australian and all it stands for and all it's standards.
Rolly said
12:23 PM Oct 9, 2009
"Patriotism and jingoism are the death of democracy and free speech"
I can't remember where I heard that, but I hold it dear to my heart.
As a nation of immigrants, of descendants of immigrants, many of whom had little choice in the matter, we might all do well to keep in mind that, unless we are fully conversant with the all facts of the matter, it is best to withhold judgment on others and their behaviours.
As descendants from a predominantly British invasion of this country, we have a history of which Ghengis Khan, Hitler and Machiavelli might be proud.
So many of us choose to ignore the evils of the past, glorifying the unforgivable and lauding the violence and cruelty of our antecedents; the echos of which are only just below the surface of our 'civilised' veneer.
Individually we can not, of course, carry the guilt of what went before, but we can take on the responsibility of recognising that we all have a strong predisposition to xenophobia, and resistance to anything that destabilises our current way of living. Basically, we are all bigots.
I think that we all need to accept responsibility for what our Governments, and their regulatory bureaucracies, do in our name, and to each do our part in exposing and eliminating the injustices that seem inherent in society.
To do otherwise is simple cowardice.
And I think that we all need to examine our personal ethics when we accept the promulgation of partisan ideologies such as these; the products of narrow minds with blinkered vision.
Gary and Kerry said
12:52 PM Oct 9, 2009
My concern on this topic is birth rates. Where will we stand in say 50years time?
dave06 said
01:30 PM Oct 9, 2009
lot of big words in there rolly, must have been a real weight off your chest getting rid of that lot, but basically what you are saying is all in the defense of democracy, funny that, by stymying our freedom of speech and defending the right of the imigrant isnt that murdering the very nature of what democracy is all about, the basic right of freedom of thought and speech!!
would you have your wife/girlfriend/daughter submit to the very intolerances to humanity that the muslim faith would have them adhere to, if alah and islam is so damn good and should be upheld everywhere that islam is to pervade then why the hell do they break their necks to escape it
we are not against the imigrant peoples of this land or differing faiths we are merely trying to uphold that which we hold dear, FREEDOM, the freedom to make choices as to whether she wants her face shown or covered up, the freedom of religion, the freedom from persecution and all the rights that we all enjoy living here,
we endear our women with love, affection and great esteem, I for one will not allow anyone to belittle my wife or daughter in any way shape or form, the very faith of a lot of these peoples religions place the wife and daughter behind the standing of a goat, would you have that here
to be allowed to live in a fantastic country like australia is a privilige that not all deserve, all we ask is that when choosing a free country like australia that all the restrictions of the old country be left behind, leave the bull**** at the gate, respect our beleifs just a little
goody two shoes attitudes like yours are what allow genecides and holocausts to take place, we dont want it here, leave it behind when a new life is chosen is all we ask, imigrate to australia and embrace it's culture and attitudes
call that prejudism well I'm bloody prejudice and proud of it, if you want genuine multiculturism come and have a meal with me anytime, see what my country is capable of when the dream is truly embraced, mine is a table of many colors and nationalities
regardless of what took place to acheive that which we enjoy now is all in the past and cannot be corrected, that which we enjoy now can and must be protected I feel at any cost even war or prejudism,
if you go to a muslim nation with the attitude that you show here, I would be interested to see how far you get, merely placing your thoughts to writing will get you stoned
to answer the original question, I would be proud to stand alongside any man or woman and sing the anthem in any language that is chosen provided they sing the anthem and honour our flag and peoples, that includes our girls
brickies said
02:21 PM Oct 9, 2009
I think a lot of people should take to the road and enjoy whats out there instead of worrying about all the badies, they might find some nice thing to talk about and meet the nice people that let us all come here to share this country with in the first place we all came from some where to make this our home , remember when we didnt want those poms coming here then it move onto Itis then the asian , but DR chan was all right he save a lot of lives
Basil Faulty said
02:34 PM Oct 9, 2009
Rolly, are you single?
Rolly said
04:43 PM Oct 9, 2009
dave06 wrote:
lot of big words in there rolly, must have been a real weight off your chest getting rid of that lot, but basically what you are saying is all in the defense of democracy, funny that, by stymying our freedom of speech and defending the right of the imigrant isnt that murdering the very nature of what democracy is all about, the basic right of freedom of thought and speech!!
would you have your wife/girlfriend/daughter submit to the very intolerances to humanity that the muslim faith would have them adhere to, if alah and islam is so damn good and should be upheld everywhere that islam is to pervade then why the hell do they break their necks to escape it
we are not against the imigrant peoples of this land or differing faiths we are merely trying to uphold that which we hold dear, FREEDOM, the freedom to make choices as to whether she wants her face shown or covered up, the freedom of religion, the freedom from persecution and all the rights that we all enjoy living here,
we endear our women with love, affection and great esteem, I for one will not allow anyone to belittle my wife or daughter in any way shape or form, the very faith of a lot of these peoples religions place the wife and daughter behind the standing of a goat, would you have that here
to be allowed to live in a fantastic country like australia is a privilige that not all deserve, all we ask is that when choosing a free country like australia that all the restrictions of the old country be left behind, leave the bull**** at the gate, respect our beleifs just a little
goody two shoes attitudes like yours are what allow genecides and holocausts to take place, we dont want it here, leave it behind when a new life is chosen is all we ask, imigrate to australia and embrace it's culture and attitudes
call that prejudism well I'm bloody prejudice and proud of it, if you want genuine multiculturism come and have a meal with me anytime, see what my country is capable of when the dream is truly embraced, mine is a table of many colors and nationalities
regardless of what took place to acheive that which we enjoy now is all in the past and cannot be corrected, that which we enjoy now can and must be protected I feel at any cost even war or prejudism,
if you go to a muslim nation with the attitude that you show here, I would be interested to see how far you get, merely placing your thoughts to writing will get you stoned
to answer the original question, I would be proud to stand alongside any man or woman and sing the anthem in any language that is chosen provided they sing the anthem and honour our flag and peoples, that includes our girls
Dave, you have chosen to misunderstand and misrepresent what I have written.
Please read it again before adding any further comment.
I have made no mention of restricting freedom of speech.
You have made several incorrect statements with reference to Islam and its requirements of its adherents based, presumably, on mass media reports which are sketchy at best and intentionally and selectively sensationalist at worst.
However, I must add that I do not support Islam any more than I support any other religion.
I am continually horrified by the evil that people do in the name of religion.
I am a convinced agnostic. (That does not mean atheist.)
As you so often do, you have gone off half-c_cked because of your well justified anger at the evil that is perpetrated in this world by those who would foist their warped dogmas onto everyone.
But it is just this kind of poorly considered and reactionary response that I rail against.
".....we endear our women with love, affection and great esteem,..."
You'd get lynched for uttering that bold statement at the womens' refuge that I support.
In fact, I remember you having such an issue in your own family.
Please don't accredit all Australians with the kindness, good will and generosity of spirit that you so obviously espouse: There's a lot of mean and nasty bar-stewards out there who have just as much right to call themselves Aussies as you or I.
I know and appreciate where you are coming from, but, in my opinion (for what little it's worth) it is an unsound and mythical platform on which to criticise others.
Off the guts of the topic, you sling the "big words" bit around like some kind of inverted snobbery.
Just what is wrong with using words and expressions that convey precise meaning in the written form, as opposed to using vague and ambiguous everyday language that often depends on tone, facial expressions, body language and immediate context to get it's meaning across.
You have many skills of your own. Please don't belittle my ability to write well.
I've worked damnably hard at it for a very long time; starting from a very low base.
Enough said.
I wrote what I wrote with conviction.
If that makes me a pariah, so be it.
Rolly said
04:45 PM Oct 9, 2009
Basil Faulty wrote:
Rolly, are you single?
That's a loaded question in this context, Basil, but, for what it's worth, I'm a "Born Again Bachelor."
dave06 said
05:06 PM Oct 9, 2009
forgive me if I am wrong but in your own writings you write "death of democracy" and then go on to belittle the democratic rights of others and their freedom to speak their own mind
i am an extreme fan of womens rights and am very active in womens shelters as well as support of a different more direct kind mostly hands on every night
I often give support love and understanding to a lot of women and have yet to be berated for it, in fact I am singled out for many "hugs" just to know they are still apreciated and enjoyed as a person, I have many letters from mums saying "thanks for saving me and my daughters life" I have many accolades from various institutions and all sorts of academic rubbish on my wall, none of which I value as high as actually speaking to the person on the end of a fist
if you knew anything about the break up of relationships and abuse within relationships it is the confidence of the female that is broken down first the then the self esteem, this is exactly what islam sets out to do from day one and it is this that I abhore
if I am wrong in this I ask the ladies of the forum who have witnessed abuse to correct me
you say in the name of religion but it is islam that will actually recruit suicide bombers to cleanse the heathens and it is the actual religion itself that denotes all other religions it is this I am against, i have devout muslims at my table who do not like all of the teachings and will not follow all of the teachings
if you take my words as angry then you are mistaken, I talk of many things and very rarely get angry, I use a lot of words where perhaps a couple would do, i actualy was not attacking your "large" words just trying to get a grasp of them and making light of them, i myself am a man of small easily understood words, a beer and chop man if you will
I am fully aware that not all nasty persons are coming from overseas but as I see it we have no need to import more we have enough of our own, we deal with our own as we see fit but the imports of others should be stopped before they become "our own"
Ma said
05:44 PM Oct 9, 2009
It seems that this is the SECOND time I have posted a thread which has lead to "unrest" in our ranks. Think maybe I will be a bit more choosey in what I put up here. I don't like or condone conflict of any sort and the outcome of my first thread lead to some quite "ill feelings" among some of us and for this I am still sorry and upset.
I support our Australian way and in particular free speech and respect everyone's right to their own personal views.
Please guys, don't let this evolve into a personal debate. I support most of the views of both of you and respect your rights to those views.
We can't all be as elloquent as Rolly and Dave, but I think at heart we are all saying the same thing.
Lets just shake hands and leave it at that.
-- Edited by Ma on Friday 9th of October 2009 04:49:18 PM
Rolly said
06:01 PM Oct 9, 2009
dave06 wrote:
forgive me if I am wrong but in your own writings you write "death of democracy" and then go on to belittle the democratic rights of others and their freedom to speak their own mind
Quote me please, Dave, so that I might see it.
JRH said
06:13 PM Oct 9, 2009
Rolly wrote:
Individually we can not, of course, carry the guilt of what went before, but we can take on the responsibility of recognising that we all have a strong predisposition to xenophobia, and resistance to anything that destabilises our current way of living. Basically, we are all bigots.
G'day Rolly,
I for one am not xenophobic, I do not fear strangers or foreigners, what I do fear is minority groups that come into our wonderful country and make so much noise that our wonderful free and easy way of life is being eroded. Our governments seem to pander to these groups hence no Christmas carols and no Nativity scenes in our schools because that would annoy or upset said minority group. It would seem the squeaky wheel gets the oil and it is about time we Australians started making some noise of our own in an effort to protect our way of life.
John
dave06 said
06:44 PM Oct 9, 2009
"Patriotism and jingoism are the death of democracy and free speech"
Ma we are simply having a discussion here, I for one am not upset and I feel you should not be either, if you are feeling upset thenI will apoligise and I will leave it at this and say no more!!!
-- Edited by dave06 on Friday 9th of October 2009 05:46:00 PM
Ma said
07:14 PM Oct 9, 2009
Thanks Dave, I appreciate your offer.
I don't mind the "discussion" if it stays that way.
The last time I put up a controversial thread it lead to your "black dog" or may have had a part in it at least and for that I will be eternally sorry.
Thanks again Dave and don't let me stop your discussions with others on this topic, I will just read them and leave it at that.
Ma
Rolly said
07:18 PM Oct 9, 2009
So much to agree on there, John.
Remember, though, that we, as the voters, must carry the ultimate responsibility for the actions of our governments.
I agree with you that we should be make a whole lot of noise about these issues, making abundantly clear to the powers-that-be those things that we do or do not approve of.
I see much of the problem of our democracy as a failure of the ordinary person to make an effort to take an active part the decision making that affects us all.
After all, the state of our favorite footy team is far more important than the state of our legislature, isn't it?!?
You rightly say that youare not xenophobic, but there is a large and vocal portion of the community that takes for fact the heavily edited and selectively reported material presented by the mass media - A media that is heavily influenced by commercial interests and political expediency, and panders to the lowest common denominator in our society with selective, sensationalistic and voyeuristic reporting.
I can't totally agree with you over the nativity scenes and Xmas carols in schools for, although I was brought up in the Christian tradition, I see no place for the promotion nor encouragement of any religion in secular education.
I consider the teaching of religions of all kinds to children to be inappropriate and akin to mind control. Child abuse, even.
Until religions present reasoned evidence for their creeds and dogmas, I will remain antagonistic toward them all.
As someone who has, at various times, read deeply into the history and teachings of many religions, I remain completely sceptical of them all; to the point that I will no longer enter into debate with any of the convinced faithful on the topic.
Apologies to all the others whose interests in this forum centre more appropriately around the topic of RV travel for the aging (not me - I'm aged already), but I do get all wound up by bigotry and jingoism. I should really not have raised such a contentious issue.
I am an vociferous advocate for justice, honesty and a fair go for all.
Those are qualities that seem to be all too rare in this avaricious, self serving, egocentric, and religiously, commercially and politically manipulative society of ours.
Oh! Yes! There are far worse societies than ours in the world, but should we judge ourselves by their standards?
-- Edited by Rolly on Friday 9th of October 2009 06:19:38 PM
Cruising Granny said
07:31 PM Oct 9, 2009
Here, here! JRH, true words of wisdom.
Australia is a league of nations since history began here.
So are many other countrys. We are a very young nation with the wonderful opportunity to avoid making the mistakes of many others before us.
This does not mean to be sterile and sealed, but we have a wonderful, friendly open-hearted culture here, and it's this culture which keeps our doors open to those that seek refuge here.
However our resources are limited, and I wonder how far we can take residential development, the drain on water and other resources to generate services to provide for all these people. Everything has its limits.
As a nation we must hold on to our open-minded and open-hearted culture, and we must not allow our new "families" to induce their culture if it erodes what we already have. They are welcome to share what we have, and if they want to retain their culture they must do it in private.
I'm a fourth generation Lutheran whose forefathers settled in the Barossa Valley and Adelaide Hills. I'm very proud of their hard-work ethic, and I hope I have honoured and continued that ethic through my life.
The post WWII immigrants were very happy to be safe and free on our shores, and rewarded this country's hospitality with hard work, enterprise and intergration.
We should expect nothing less of any newcomers who intend to take up residence here.
JRH said
01:54 PM Oct 10, 2009
G'day Rolly,
I was educated in Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) and in high school we had RI (Religious Instruction). One day a week the various clergy would come to the school and each denomination would take a 40 minute class. We were not subjected to religious dogma but rather were told stories from the bible and then left to make up our own minds as to their veracity.
Those students who's religious beliefs were not catered for went to the school library and started their homework.
This very basic grounding in Christian values has followed me all my life and whilst I am definitely not a God botherer, nor am I particularly religious I believe these early teachings have guided me through life and influenced my behaviour and attitude toward others and I hope has made me a better and more tolerant person. Whilst I cannot claim it as my motto I do believe in the old saying "If you cannot do someone a good turn then do not do him/her a bad one" Having said all that I do not believe we should allow minority groups to come into our country and attempt to change our way of life.
John
Rolly said
03:40 PM Oct 10, 2009
JRH wrote:............. I do not believe we should allow minority groups to come into our country and attempt to change our way of life.
I agree, absolutely.
Just as I do not believe that any creed/dogma/religion/orthodoxy/convention/ etc. should be forced upon anyone.
Nor should myths and fables be presented as facts and realities to those who are too young and/or gullible to understand what they are being taught.
There are ways to persuade folk to behave well without telling them lies and fictitious tales of divine retribution and by presenting them with false ideas of heaven and hell.
As I said previously, I remain agnostic, i.e. not knowing, but I have yet to be presented with a convincing argument for the existence of a god or gods as presented by the many religions that I have encountered.
That does not mean that such an entity or entities does/do not exist.
But I need some solid evidence in which to believe.
I received this email from a friend this afternoon and thought I would pass it along to you all. Should make for an interesting discussion. I might add that these may OR may not be my thoughts, our thoughts are our own and we are entitled to think what we like.
Over to you ..................Ma
Regarding Our National Anthem
I am sorry, but after hearing they want to sing the National Anthem in Arabic- enough is enough.
No where or at no other time in our nation's history, did they sing it in Italian, Japanese, Polish, Irish (Celtic), German, Portuguese, Greek, or any other language because of immigration.
It was written in English, and should be sung word for word the way it was written.
The news broadcasts even gave the translation -- not even close.
I am not sorry if this offends anyone, this is MY COUNTRY - IF IT IS YOUR COUNTRY SPEAK UP
I am not against immigration -- just come through like everyone else.
Get a sponsor; have a place to lay your head; have a job; pay your taxes, live by the rules AND LEARN THE LANGUAGE as all other immigrants have in the past -- and LONG LIVE Australia !
PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Think about this:
If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone-----YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !!!!
Will we only remain the Country of Choice and still be Australia, if we stop the changes being forced on us by the people from other countries who have come to live in Australia, because it is the Country of Choice??
Think about it!
IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.
It is Time forAustraliato Speak up.
Singing the National Anthem in Arabic??? Yeah well why not; you can get a drivers licence using a skilled interpreter who amazingly answers all the questions correctly on your behalf. Now to be strictly correct the National Anthem is sung in German by some Freemasons in SA, remember however that it was a German who composed "Song of Australia".
On the whole Muslims are not a bad bunch, it's their clerics who rule them with a regime of fear and ridicule who are the problem and due to their cultural beliefs the rank and file follow.
I was gobbsmacked when the head Muslim Cretin in Sydney made the remarks about women then went on to explain that ALL WOMEN should be "sewn up" so that their husband can ritually re open them on their marriage night with a "dagger", how sadistic is that? And why don't the women speak up?
I find the whole thing incomprehensible and even further I find it abomnible that the god fearing Christians stand by and say nothing either but have a good old whinge if there is a bare breast on TV...
shes not a big girl but by hell she's a monster inside when her danders up, I know what would be sewn up and it would involve a needle a doodle and a top lip and a lot of screaming
pretty much the same as any aussie girl we instill them with self awareness and respect for themselves and not to be downtrodden, we instill our kids (boys and girls) with self pride and understanding of others and then along come these fools and their outlandish backward thirdworld ways and expect us to fall in line with their beliefs
mate I am and always will be an aussie, I'm not muslim, not particularly catholic or protestent, I do believe in a greater power and I often feel it behind the ear when I go astray
I believe that coming to our fantastic land is a privilige that quite simply some do not deserve, I believe when stepping foot on our great southern land all non australian conforming beliefs should be left at the door
I believe that a test should be passed whereupon a "normal" person asks the questions
sample
(1a) critical question, do you speak english.......immediate denial if answer is no!
(1) do you like beer/wine and chops and acting obnoxiously at barbyq's........immediate disqualification if answer is no
(2) do you hit, demean, belittle or abuse woman, girls or little boys, are you likely to in the future......death penalty if answer is yes to any, no going back from that one
(3) are you willing to forgo all the bad points of your religion, bad points as determined by normal everyday australian woman and not the goody two shoes brigade
(4) do you promise not to slit our throats as we sleep, we are not fond of that!
(5) do you promise not to blow up any of our buildings, especially our pubs, we may grant a point of clarification if it happens to be a parliament house
(6) do you promise to integrate into our society and not group into one sector
(7) do you promise to actually get a real job and not rob us blind through social security benefits
(8) will you promise to be an active valuable member of our community and not a drain on our health or welfare system
(9) do you promise to leave your burker at the gate and become an everyday dinky di aussie sheila and not take any crap from your husband/boyfriend or family
(10) do you promise to limit your child bearing capabilities to two and not 500
just a sample of what I would be asking, not taking into account some of the harder ones
I have just reread my post and thought it may come across as racist, I would just like to add that I would be proud to stand next to a person of either sex from any other country and sing our anthem (if I knew the words) in any language
I know it's got "girt" by sea, who the hell is "girt" anyway and why is she always by the sea
at our table almost any night our guest list contains at least two muslims and many varied and differing religions, we love them to death as with all our other "foreigners"
the affection for us and our country is returned tenfold, they feel extremly priviliged and blessed to live in the land down under and not only follow the aforementioned rules but embrace them with pride
anyway that's the thought of the day from unca Dave, better get back to work now or I may have to emigrate and assimilate to another belief,
hawaii would be hard, all those grass skirts, wheres my whipper snipper heh! heh! heh!
-- Edited by dave06 on Thursday 8th of October 2009 10:42:45 AM
Australia- The Right to Leave
Our Country - YOU Have the right - the right to leave !
After Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights.
After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered.
This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen. Published in an Australian newspaper.
Quote:
IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It !
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.
However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.
However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.
This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.
This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part
of our society, Learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you
consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is part of our culture.
If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, And we really don't care how you did things where you came from.
This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.
But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage
you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"
If you aren't happy here then Bugger off! We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.
-- Edited by JRH on Thursday 8th of October 2009 04:41:59 PM
Dave, you have chosen to misunderstand and misrepresent what I have written.
Please read it again before adding any further comment.
I have made no mention of restricting freedom of speech.
You have made several incorrect statements with reference to Islam and its requirements of its adherents based, presumably, on mass media reports which are sketchy at best and intentionally and selectively sensationalist at worst.
However, I must add that I do not support Islam any more than I support any other religion.
I am continually horrified by the evil that people do in the name of religion.
I am a convinced agnostic. (That does not mean atheist.)
As you so often do, you have gone off half-c_cked because of your well justified anger at the evil that is perpetrated in this world by those who would foist their warped dogmas onto everyone.
But it is just this kind of poorly considered and reactionary response that I rail against.
".....we endear our women with love, affection and great esteem,..."
You'd get lynched for uttering that bold statement at the womens' refuge that I support.
In fact, I remember you having such an issue in your own family.
Please don't accredit all Australians with the kindness, good will and generosity of spirit that you so obviously espouse: There's a lot of mean and nasty bar-stewards out there who have just as much right to call themselves Aussies as you or I.
I know and appreciate where you are coming from, but, in my opinion (for what little it's worth) it is an unsound and mythical platform on which to criticise others.
Off the guts of the topic, you sling the "big words" bit around like some kind of inverted snobbery.
Just what is wrong with using words and expressions that convey precise meaning in the written form, as opposed to using vague and ambiguous everyday language that often depends on tone, facial expressions, body language and immediate context to get it's meaning across.
You have many skills of your own. Please don't belittle my ability to write well.
I've worked damnably hard at it for a very long time; starting from a very low base.
Enough said.
I wrote what I wrote with conviction.
If that makes me a pariah, so be it.
That's a loaded question in this context, Basil, but, for what it's worth, I'm a "Born Again Bachelor."
I support our Australian way and in particular free speech and respect everyone's right to their own personal views.
Please guys, don't let this evolve into a personal debate. I support most of the views of both of you and respect your rights to those views.
We can't all be as elloquent as Rolly and Dave, but I think at heart we are all saying the same thing.
Lets just shake hands and leave it at that.
-- Edited by Ma on Friday 9th of October 2009 04:49:18 PM
Ma we are simply having a discussion here, I for one am not upset and I feel you should not be either, if you are feeling upset thenI will apoligise and I will leave it at this and say no more!!!
-- Edited by dave06 on Friday 9th of October 2009 05:46:00 PM
I don't mind the "discussion" if it stays that way.
The last time I put up a controversial thread it lead to your "black dog" or may have had a part in it at least and for that I will be eternally sorry.
Thanks again Dave and don't let me stop your discussions with others on this topic, I will just read them and leave it at that.
Ma
So much to agree on there, John.
Remember, though, that we, as the voters, must carry the ultimate responsibility for the actions of our governments.
I agree with you that we should be make a whole lot of noise about these issues, making abundantly clear to the powers-that-be those things that we do or do not approve of.
I see much of the problem of our democracy as a failure of the ordinary person to make an effort to take an active part the decision making that affects us all.
After all, the state of our favorite footy team is far more important than the state of our legislature, isn't it?!?
You rightly say that you are not xenophobic, but there is a large and vocal portion of the community that takes for fact the heavily edited and selectively reported material presented by the mass media - A media that is heavily influenced by commercial interests and political expediency, and panders to the lowest common denominator in our society with selective, sensationalistic and voyeuristic reporting.
I can't totally agree with you over the nativity scenes and Xmas carols in schools for, although I was brought up in the Christian tradition, I see no place for the promotion nor encouragement of any religion in secular education.
I consider the teaching of religions of all kinds to children to be inappropriate and akin to mind control. Child abuse, even.
Until religions present reasoned evidence for their creeds and dogmas, I will remain antagonistic toward them all.
As someone who has, at various times, read deeply into the history and teachings of many religions, I remain completely sceptical of them all; to the point that I will no longer enter into debate with any of the convinced faithful on the topic.
Apologies to all the others whose interests in this forum centre more appropriately around the topic of RV travel for the aging (not me - I'm aged already), but I do get all wound up by bigotry and jingoism.
I should really not have raised such a contentious issue.
I am an vociferous advocate for justice, honesty and a fair go for all.
Those are qualities that seem to be all too rare in this avaricious, self serving, egocentric, and religiously, commercially and politically manipulative society of ours.
Oh! Yes! There are far worse societies than ours in the world, but should we judge ourselves by their standards?
-- Edited by Rolly on Friday 9th of October 2009 06:19:38 PM
I was educated in Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) and in high school we had RI (Religious Instruction). One day a week the various clergy would come to the school and each denomination would take a 40 minute class. We were not subjected to religious dogma but rather were told stories from the bible and then left to make up our own minds as to their veracity.
Those students who's religious beliefs were not catered for went to the school library and started their homework.
This very basic grounding in Christian values has followed me all my life and whilst I am definitely not a God botherer, nor am I particularly religious I believe these early teachings have guided me through life and influenced my behaviour and attitude toward others and I hope has made me a better and more tolerant person. Whilst I cannot claim it as my motto I do believe in the old saying "If you cannot do someone a good turn then do not do him/her a bad one" Having said all that I do not believe we should allow minority groups to come into our country and attempt to change our way of life.
John
I agree, absolutely.
Just as I do not believe that any creed/dogma/religion/orthodoxy/convention/ etc. should be forced upon anyone.
Nor should myths and fables be presented as facts and realities to those who are too young and/or gullible to understand what they are being taught.
There are ways to persuade folk to behave well without telling them lies and fictitious tales of divine retribution and by presenting them with false ideas of heaven and hell.
As I said previously, I remain agnostic, i.e. not knowing, but I have yet to be presented with a convincing argument for the existence of a god or gods as presented by the many religions that I have encountered.
That does not mean that such an entity or entities does/do not exist.
But I need some solid evidence in which to believe.
So far, no joy.