Do you think the carbon tax will effect the Grey Nomads?????
biggles said
02:07 PM Jul 11, 2011
Will it be good or bad......
Benwerrin said
02:14 PM Jul 11, 2011
Let's hope that the moderators are more open to free speech than the other site.
Oh, by the way, I reckon it will prove to be disasterous.
Vic said
02:16 PM Jul 11, 2011
Yes I think it will Biggles, I also think some State Premiers will blame the tax for rises in their states that have nothing to do with it.
tezza said
02:48 PM Jul 11, 2011
it will only effect you if you ever spend money and buy stuff as the price must eventually be passed down the line.
ChiChi1 said
02:56 PM Jul 11, 2011
Why is bread affected?
Cupie said
03:02 PM Jul 11, 2011
It will have less adverse impact than the GST did.
I strongly support it But will not use this forum to debate the issue.
Cruising Granny said
04:38 PM Jul 11, 2011
Next they'll be charging us a tree to exhale. The tax will not achieve the result they're claiming as the reason for imposing it. If they were really serious about reducing pollution emissions, not necessarily carbon dioxide, they would measure the OUTPUT, approve an acceptable level and penalise the industries which exceed this acceptable level. This could be applied to every fuel-burning motor. Cars and trucks would be restricted to the acceptable level. The manufacturers would be given the responsibility of ensuring their vehicles were built to comply. Factories and power stations would probably go to gas fuel, also ensuring they maintain the acceptable output of carbon dioxide. Taxing and penalising what goes in is criminal, considering the information the policy is formed on is incorrect. If we're suffering global warming now, once upon a time there was an ice age. What happened to that? Climate is cyclic as is everything else, including mankind. Our Prime Minister has internationally demonstrated what a gullible fool she really is, making the announcement based on someone else's information. I suspect that someone has a vested interest in the energy industry.
tonyd said
04:47 PM Jul 11, 2011
My reading of it is that GNs with diesel-powered tugs will be slapped with higher diesel prices. Seems only truckies and the like will be exempt, and then only for a couple of years. Greenies hate 4WDs in general, and diesel ones in particular. Cheers, Tony
NeilandRaine said
05:27 PM Jul 11, 2011
tonyd wrote:
My reading of it is that GNs with diesel-powered tugs will be slapped with higher diesel prices. Seems only truckies and the like will be exempt, and then only for a couple of years. Greenies hate 4WDs in general, and diesel ones in particular. Cheers, Tony
Truckies already get a 15 cent a litre discount, maybe they will loose some of that. People with Diesel vehicles have been subsidising the trucking industry through the high cost of diesel. Before I get jumped on I dont mind the truckies getting a discount, I just wish it was distributed through all fuel users a bit fairer. Trouble is once the truckies loose their discount then watch prices go up. I bet Julia says its an unforseen cost.
Im not sure how much we will be effected but I did learn how to tell when Julia is lieing Her lips move.
Cruising Granny said
05:57 PM Jul 11, 2011
How are the truckers awarded this discount/subsidy? It's not at the pump. Is it through the tax system? It's a considerable allowance, but from what I've seen this industry gets penalised and scrutinised 24/7. They even get penalised severely for spelling errors in their log books. They carry much of the freight of this country. Trains can't go everywhere trucks have to go. It's a hard way to make a quid. If every truck, B-double or road train stopped for just 24hrs, we'd have empty shelves in many industries and businesses. This country depends on the road transport network. So far they are not being included in the carbon tax grab, but my guess it will only be a matter of time. I drive a diesel, and I guess I'll get hit with every other private motorist in this country. That's not to say petrol and LPG won't get hit as well. The bottom line is, I believe this tax as it's being proposed and promoted is not good for anything except revenue raising. Whatever they gather will not be fully distributed. They will be keeping much of it in revenue. And it probably won't be used to research alternate power and energy options.
chris & terry said
06:21 PM Jul 11, 2011
I have not heard this mentioned anywhere, but if the carbon tax increases the price of anything (dah; this a given), then will not there be a 10% increase on the increase, ie; GST. & I believe all things we buy or use will increase. from fuel, gas, food, tyres, even the repairs & maintenance on our trucks (cars) & vans. As I see it a GST is applied to the sale (final) price, not cost price. Please help me out if I am wrong. Incidently, I am as concerned as most about the climate, but in my opinion a tax will do nothing but increase the Govt coffers.
Terry
Cruising Granny said
06:28 PM Jul 11, 2011
You are so right. A tax won't stop the alleged pollution they claim is bringing about "climate change". If they can't reduce their output, they can buy "credits" from overseas. So they can keep pumping out carbon dioxide as long as they're prepared to pay for it. Where's the incentive there to reduce? They can't be serious! If little old Oz reduces and no other country reduces, what's the point? It won't matter. The Government will have the revenue in their coffers. That's the bottom line. Once again WE pay. We pay when we earn it, we pay when we spend it, and now we pay for exhaling it.
sandsmere said
06:43 PM Jul 11, 2011
I don't think it will effect pensioner GNs much at all . In fact , may be better off .
My final word on the subject too . There are plenty of political forums around if that's your go .
capt cream bun said
06:57 PM Jul 11, 2011
So i will be $5.00 better off per week? So what happens when the carbon price reaches $30.00 or more when it is let loose soom after?
Can some one please tell me if carbon prices will mean generally things will cost me more and if i recieve a $5.00 benefit to off set that, why have a carbon tax at all?
I beleive the new tax will dramatically effect fuel prices.
dazren said
07:28 PM Jul 11, 2011
I agree we should not DEBATE the carbon tax on this forum, However i see not problem in discussing the same, as long as it does not get heated, and if it does then i am sure the moderators will close the thread. it does not hurt to discuss it and get varying opinions, as this is a major change that will effect the australia we know and love,
IMHO i say don't confuse the carbon tax, with climate change, the agenda is to raise more taxes, and if Julia wants my support, there is one way she can get it ???
I promise if she will call an election, and let the people speak, and confirm ?? that she has that Mythical Mandate, then i will support that election call !! dazren
biggles said
07:50 PM Jul 11, 2011
The only reason I started this post is that I'm confused - I have a deisel 4x4, I'm presuming that with the carbon tax I will be paying a lot more at the bowser also powered sites would have to increase with rising energy bills. I'm planning a 3 month trip later next year & not sure how much extra to budget for.
Wombat 280 said
08:23 PM Jul 11, 2011
Stand by this is stage one . With all the exemptions they have now made we are down to 500 polluters who will be paying the tax , I can't see those 500 paying enough to give all these handouts to pensioners , and power generators and small business .
Would like to see a list of these 500 polluters so we can see if we should keep buying their products .
In a utopian situation what happens if these 500 or even a small portion of them clean up their act or go out of business altogether who is going to put up the cash for the handouts to GN's and low income families . I know they will remove the exemptions from motor fuels, the motorist and smokers are always a good revenue spinners.
Seeing that exemptions where still coming to the fore only last week when the truckies dared to protest over diesel inclusion shows that the lateral thought processes were lacking from the start . Note that the tax is fixed for three years and Labor only has two years to run . If they do get back in then we will see Labor's true colours
Vic said
10:32 PM Jul 11, 2011
biggles wrote:
The only reason I started this post is that I'm confused - I have a deisel 4x4, I'm presuming that with the carbon tax I will be paying a lot more at the bowser also powered sites would have to increase with rising energy bills. I'm planning a 3 month trip later next year & not sure how much extra to budget for.
You raised a good point Biggles, as travellers we need to know the effects, I suspect that until it kicks in we are not going to be sure of how we will be affected.
Cruising Granny, if truckies have an exception for awhile, shouldn't that apply to you with your pilot work?
jonathan said
10:48 PM Jul 11, 2011
I think its a little soon for speculation .. and I certainly won't get drawn into making a personal comment in here ..
We are all lucky to be able to have our own opinions .. but lets not spoil the Karma that exists here ..
Jon
Travel Bug said
11:22 PM Jul 11, 2011
Jonathon wrote:
I think its a little soon for speculation .. and I certainly won't get drawn into making a personal comment in here ..
We are all lucky to be able to have our own opinions .. but lets not spoil the Karma that exists here ..
Cruising Granny, if truckies have an exception for awhile, shouldn't that apply to you with your pilot work?
I doubt it. Maybe as a "commercial" vehicle I may be exempt. As a pensioner I'm exempt or at least will receive the rebate. This tax is such a messy policy it's very hard to know what goes where. I believe it's a valid topic for this forum, as this policy may or may not apply to us and other nomads, travellers, motorists and transport operators. Even the trains and ships will be affected. I have a feeling the Govt is targetting a specific sector which they haven't told us about yet. You can't tell me there are only 500 qualifying polluters or producers of carbon dioxide in our industrial/commercial sector? Which begs another question. What/who is a qualifying polluter?
BobnBev said
09:08 AM Jul 12, 2011
jonathan wrote:
I think its a little soon for speculation .. and I certainly won't get drawn into making a personal comment in here ..
We are all lucky to be able to have our own opinions .. but lets not spoil the Karma that exists here ..
Jon
Can you see this going on in china, talking out..they lock the poor suckers up. we are all lucky.. and its not us.. its our kids kids that will have to clean up OUR greedy mess. IF it lasts that long....
come on do a little thinking here!!!!!!. Dont be so short sighted people ...
gordon_adl said
09:52 AM Jul 12, 2011
This does bring up the possibly of selling negative carbin...doesn't it? I wonder how viable it would be to buy some cheap property out in the middle of nowhere and populate it with trees.
Then sell the negative carbin.
Cruising Granny wrote:
If they can't reduce their output, they can buy "credits" from overseas.
Wombat 280 said
01:39 PM Jul 12, 2011
Going it alone is what gets up most peoples noses . While places like India , China, Russia and USA produce more carbon pollution in a couple of hours than we do in 1 year are we really in the game . How can buying a forest in the third world help clean the air here. Then we have Brazil building 60 Hydro Electric Dams throughout the Amazon so there goes the trees. The Amazon is so flat that the dam will only have a depth of 14 meters and each will cover upwards of 600 Sq kilometers. Forgot to mention have a look just north to Indonesia and their palm forests with don't absorb carbon . Get real we are minnows in a bloody big pond of energy hungry sharks
ken thomas said
01:59 PM Jul 12, 2011
I think everybodyhas an opinion and would like to see reduced pollution and a healthy enviroment for our kids in the future but if all of our manufacturing industries and farming go offshore what are they going to be left with. You can be sure that a lot of industry will go under Ken
ozi2 said
05:03 PM Jul 12, 2011
Wombat 280 wrote:
Going it alone is what gets up most peoples noses . While places like India , China, Russia and USA produce more carbon pollution in a couple of hours than we do in 1 year are we really in the game . How can buying a forest in the third world help clean the air here. Then we have Brazil building 60 Hydro Electric Dams throughout the Amazon so there goes the trees. The Amazon is so flat that the dam will only have a depth of 14 meters and each will cover upwards of 600 Sq kilometers. Forgot to mention have a look just north to Indonesia and their palm forests with don't absorb carbon . Get real we are minnows in a bloody big pond of energy hungry sharks
Ditto your comments wombat, across the Malacca Strait in Malaysia they are clear felling their rainforest at a staggering rate and planting out huge area of palm plants, the whole region is slash and burn......and its international companies behind it!
BobnBev said
08:40 AM Jul 13, 2011
Get real we are minnows in a bloody big pond of energy hungry sharks
Dose this mean we have to swim with them ?
Why is it that the loudest are belived, its a fact that we are the worlds worst per head of population at polluting ,
Sorry but its time to pay the piper, before we carnt..
so easy to yell poor me, why do I have to, its them not me..
Our grand kids will look back and ask why didnt they do some thing, when they could have..
Its a no brainer Biggles no it wont, it will for the big mess makers..
would you leave your rubbish behind, no ,me eather. they want to!!!!!!
Cupie said
08:54 AM Jul 13, 2011
BobnBev wrote:
Get real we are minnows in a bloody big pond of energy hungry sharks
Dose this mean we have to swim with them ?
Why is it that the loudest are belived, its a fact that we are the worlds worst per head of population at polluting ,
Sorry but its time to pay the piper, before we carnt..
so easy to yell poor me, why do I have to, its them not me..
Our grand kids will look back and ask why didnt they do some thing, when they could have..
Its a no brainer Biggles no it wont, it will for the big mess makers..
would you leave your rubbish behind, no ,me eather. they want to!!!!!!
Sorry people, I said I wouldn't comment further, but I just had to.
I agree 100% with BobnBev's post.
Please let's not use this forum for subjects like this.
biggles said
10:00 AM Jul 13, 2011
Bob, Bev & Cupie, great to read your posts, this subject will effect everyone in some way, I'm worried that things will go wrong & it will hurt people in ways not imagined. It will, I think effect Grey Nomads as much as anyone, so why not this forum to help Julia sell it. Putting our heads in the sand wont help people understand this new tax, talking about it has got to help...
Nicholstones said
01:09 PM Jul 13, 2011
I think that there is a very high probability that there will be unforeeseen impacts, there is in almost any change and this is a pretty big one. However, that isn't an argument for not doing it, just to monitor it and make adjustments if needed.
From the analysis I have seen of the compensation in the package, and the demographics of the people who contribute to this forum, I reckon almost every one of us will be at least no worse off, and in many cases potentially better off. However, surely that isn't the point, the point is trying to change the way we work as a society to improve the lot of future generations.
As for talk of 'bring on the election', unless the coalition policy changes then a change of government may remove the carbon tax and the consequent compensation package, but won't change spending associated with trying to reduce our carbon footprint. Instead of the polluters paying, and having incentive to reduce their pollution in order to reduce their tax, the government will pay companies out of general revenue to encourage them to do the same thing. So the money for change will come out of our taxes, not taxes paid specifically by only the large polluters. It makes me wonder if we've all dropped down the rabbit hole, with the Labor Party introducing a market based mechanism and the Liberals arguing instead for direct government intervention.
My last comment is on things I sometimes hear people say like 'if I am getting compensated anyway, then what is the point, nothing will change'. The point is that the compensation and the bills aren't directly linked. If you reduce your electricity consumption then you will reduce your bills, but the level of compensation won't change. So companies and individuals still very much have an incentive to reduce the amount of carbon produced by the goods they consume.
Will it be good or bad......
Let's hope that the moderators are more open to free speech than the other site.
Oh, by the way, I reckon it will prove to be disasterous.
Yes I think it will Biggles, I also think some State Premiers will blame the tax for rises in their states that have nothing to do with it.
it will only effect you if you ever spend money and buy stuff as the price must eventually be passed down the line.
It will have less adverse impact than the GST did.
I strongly support it But will not use this forum to debate the issue.
The tax will not achieve the result they're claiming as the reason for imposing it.
If they were really serious about reducing pollution emissions, not necessarily carbon dioxide, they would measure the OUTPUT, approve an acceptable level and penalise the industries which exceed this acceptable level.
This could be applied to every fuel-burning motor. Cars and trucks would be restricted to the acceptable level. The manufacturers would be given the responsibility of ensuring their vehicles were built to comply.
Factories and power stations would probably go to gas fuel, also ensuring they maintain the acceptable output of carbon dioxide.
Taxing and penalising what goes in is criminal, considering the information the policy is formed on is incorrect.
If we're suffering global warming now, once upon a time there was an ice age. What happened to that?
Climate is cyclic as is everything else, including mankind.
Our Prime Minister has internationally demonstrated what a gullible fool she really is, making the announcement based on someone else's information.
I suspect that someone has a vested interest in the energy industry.
Cheers, Tony
Truckies already get a 15 cent a litre discount, maybe they will loose some of that. People with Diesel vehicles have been subsidising the trucking industry through the high cost of diesel. Before I get jumped on I dont mind the truckies getting a discount, I just wish it was distributed through all fuel users a bit fairer. Trouble is once the truckies loose their discount then watch prices go up. I bet Julia says its an unforseen cost.
Im not sure how much we will be effected but I did learn how to tell when Julia is lieing
Her lips move.
Is it through the tax system?
It's a considerable allowance, but from what I've seen this industry gets penalised and scrutinised 24/7.
They even get penalised severely for spelling errors in their log books.
They carry much of the freight of this country. Trains can't go everywhere trucks have to go. It's a hard way to make a quid.
If every truck, B-double or road train stopped for just 24hrs, we'd have empty shelves in many industries and businesses.
This country depends on the road transport network. So far they are not being included in the carbon tax grab, but my guess it will only be a matter of time.
I drive a diesel, and I guess I'll get hit with every other private motorist in this country. That's not to say petrol and LPG won't get hit as well.
The bottom line is, I believe this tax as it's being proposed and promoted is not good for anything except revenue raising. Whatever they gather will not be fully distributed. They will be keeping much of it in revenue. And it probably won't be used to research alternate power and energy options.
Terry
If they can't reduce their output, they can buy "credits" from overseas. So they can keep pumping out carbon dioxide as long as they're prepared to pay for it.
Where's the incentive there to reduce?
They can't be serious!
If little old Oz reduces and no other country reduces, what's the point?
It won't matter. The Government will have the revenue in their coffers. That's the bottom line.
Once again WE pay. We pay when we earn it, we pay when we spend it, and now we pay for exhaling it.
I don't think it will effect pensioner GNs much at all . In fact , may be better off .
My final word on the subject too . There are plenty of political forums around if that's your go .
So i will be $5.00 better off per week? So what happens when the carbon price reaches $30.00 or more when it is let loose soom after?
Can some one please tell me if carbon prices will mean generally things will cost me more and if i recieve a $5.00 benefit to off set that, why have a carbon tax at all?
I beleive the new tax will dramatically effect fuel prices.
I agree we should not DEBATE the carbon tax on this forum, However i see not problem in discussing the same, as long as it does not get heated, and if it does then i am sure the moderators will close the thread. it does not hurt to discuss it and get varying opinions, as this is a major change that will effect the australia we know and love,
IMHO i say don't confuse the carbon tax, with climate change, the agenda is to raise more taxes, and if Julia wants my support, there is one way she can get it ???
I promise if she will call an election, and let the people speak, and confirm ?? that she has that Mythical Mandate, then i will support that election call !! dazren
Would like to see a list of these 500 polluters so we can see if we should keep buying their products .
In a utopian situation what happens if these 500 or even a small portion of them clean up their act or go out of business altogether who is going to put up the cash for the handouts to GN's and low income families . I know they will remove the exemptions from motor fuels, the motorist and smokers are always a good revenue spinners.
Seeing that exemptions where still coming to the fore only last week when the truckies dared to protest over diesel inclusion shows that the lateral thought processes were lacking from the start . Note that the tax is fixed for three years and Labor only has two years to run . If they do get back in then we will see Labor's true colours
You raised a good point Biggles, as travellers we need to know the effects, I suspect that until it kicks in we are not going to be sure of how we will be affected.
Cruising Granny, if truckies have an exception for awhile, shouldn't that apply to you with your pilot work?
I think its a little soon for speculation .. and I certainly won't get drawn into making a personal comment in here ..
We are all lucky to be able to have our own opinions .. but lets not spoil the Karma that exists here ..
Jon
Jonathon wrote:
I think its a little soon for speculation .. and I certainly won't get drawn into making a personal comment in here ..
We are all lucky to be able to have our own opinions .. but lets not spoil the Karma that exists here ..
Jon
____________________________________________________________________
I agree!
I doubt it. Maybe as a "commercial" vehicle I may be exempt. As a pensioner I'm exempt or at least will receive the rebate.
This tax is such a messy policy it's very hard to know what goes where.
I believe it's a valid topic for this forum, as this policy may or may not apply to us and other nomads, travellers, motorists and transport operators. Even the trains and ships will be affected.
I have a feeling the Govt is targetting a specific sector which they haven't told us about yet.
You can't tell me there are only 500 qualifying polluters or producers of carbon dioxide in our industrial/commercial sector?
Which begs another question. What/who is a qualifying polluter?
Can you see this going on in china, talking out..they lock the poor suckers up. we are all lucky.. and its not us.. its our kids kids that will have to clean up OUR greedy mess. IF it lasts that long....
come on do a little thinking here!!!!!!. Dont be so short sighted people ...
and a healthy enviroment for our kids in the future but if all of our manufacturing
industries and farming go offshore what are they going to be left with.
You can be sure that a lot of industry will go under
Ken
Ditto your comments wombat, across the Malacca Strait in Malaysia they are clear felling their rainforest at a staggering rate and planting out huge area of palm plants, the whole region is slash and burn......and its international companies behind it!
Get real we are minnows in a bloody big pond of energy hungry sharks
Dose this mean we have to swim with them ?
Why is it that the loudest are belived, its a fact that we are the worlds worst per head of population at polluting ,
Sorry but its time to pay the piper, before we carnt..
so easy to yell poor me, why do I have to, its them not me..
Our grand kids will look back and ask why didnt they do some thing, when they could have..
Its a no brainer Biggles no it wont, it will for the big mess makers..
would you leave your rubbish behind, no ,me eather. they want to!!!!!!
Sorry people, I said I wouldn't comment further, but I just had to.
I agree 100% with BobnBev's post.
Please let's not use this forum for subjects like this.
From the analysis I have seen of the compensation in the package, and the demographics of the people who contribute to this forum, I reckon almost every one of us will be at least no worse off, and in many cases potentially better off. However, surely that isn't the point, the point is trying to change the way we work as a society to improve the lot of future generations.
As for talk of 'bring on the election', unless the coalition policy changes then a change of government may remove the carbon tax and the consequent compensation package, but won't change spending associated with trying to reduce our carbon footprint. Instead of the polluters paying, and having incentive to reduce their pollution in order to reduce their tax, the government will pay companies out of general revenue to encourage them to do the same thing. So the money for change will come out of our taxes, not taxes paid specifically by only the large polluters. It makes me wonder if we've all dropped down the rabbit hole, with the Labor Party introducing a market based mechanism and the Liberals arguing instead for direct government intervention.
My last comment is on things I sometimes hear people say like 'if I am getting compensated anyway, then what is the point, nothing will change'. The point is that the compensation and the bills aren't directly linked. If you reduce your electricity consumption then you will reduce your bills, but the level of compensation won't change. So companies and individuals still very much have an incentive to reduce the amount of carbon produced by the goods they consume.