G'Day Pipes. I, for one, believe you have a very valid point. We are in danger of losing our 'driving skills' with such things as A.B.S. Traction Control etc etc. As for Cruise Control, your point is well made. I further believe that one can do much better re fuel economy without C.C. The C.C. doesn't see approaching hills and when it finally 'sees' them, it drops the gears down and the revolutions 'up' more than is required. My current (and ex 'plod') experience has been that 'skills' are down. I frequently see younger drivers by the roadside with a puncture who genuinely don't even know where the spare is when it's not fitted under the boot floor (under chassis fitting etc). Or unable to cope with sudden small obstacles etc. remember an article which showed that the average driver has up to 80% of the information and conditions that a jumbo jet pilot has when landing. But how many of us really check our instruments (oil, temp, rpms and fuel ) regularly. Check our rear and side mirrors regularly or drive looking much further ahead than just the car or two in front. I know of very few people that conduct a pre drive check of just the basics, (tyres, wheel nuts, lights and warnng clusters) or do a 'running commentary' of conditions around, behind or ahead of them. Yet these things used to be done (to a greater or lesser extent) in the days before ANCAAP and 'safety' features as part of daily driving. For what it's worth.
-- Edited by Keith19837 on Friday 8th of June 2012 10:10:55 PM
pipes said
04:42 AM Jun 9, 2012
So many times the radio/TV tells us that, "The vehicle ran off the road, and hit a tree. Police/ Ambulance staff advise that the driver was killed."
It happens all over the country, and having had over fifty years of local, intrastate and interstate driving, I think I know, possibly, what one of the major cause of this type of accidents is.
A couple of years ago, over a period of six months, I wrote to every major motoring body in the country. As far as I know, the letter was not published in their customers magazines.
This is it.
No offence, but. I think that the average motorist is not really used to any form of long distance driving. Dashing around town, off to work, picking up shopping or the kids is part of most drivers day. Then they find that they, for a number of reasons, have to drive an unusually long distance. Work, a weekend break, deliver goods a hundred K's away, etc. etc.
As most of us know, todays modern vehicles are certainly both comfortable, and quiet. Driver sets off along the road. There's not a lot of traffic. Driver adjusts the heating/aircon (?) Next, the radio/CD player is switched on. Driver then brings the vehicle up to the speed limit. (110, WA) Then driver shakes the bum around a bit, settles into the ride with music, and then turns on what I think is the most dangerous accessory in the vehicle,....The cruise control !
At this point, I think that the driver has lost 90% control of the vehicle. I have watched drivers almost doze off as a result. It can, and often does, result in what is known as, "The hundred yard stare" Not unlike the way you may feel in a plane, bus or car, when a passenger. Drivers can so easily, "lose it".
Result. The driver doesn't notice, and the "cruise" doesn't "see" the bend ahead and the sign which says, 80 KPH. I believe, that in that split second , by the time the driver realises the speed is wrong, their first reaction is, naturally, hit the brakes, which turns the cruise control OFF. The vehicle goes into a skid, slides off the road, and inevitably, hits a tree. Please don't let the "cruise" control you. It's just the way I see it.
Regards
Pipes.
Rip and Rosie said
07:47 AM Jun 9, 2012
I have used the F3 frequently to travel between Newcastle and Sydney.
Weekdays in the peak, regular commuters travel in a specific way. They keep to the speed limit, minimise lane changes and drive to the conditions. Mostly the traffic moves as an entity.
Same trip on weekends, the sightseers are out, giving the car a good run. Speed is up, lane changes add to the fun. The race is on. Tailgaters heaven. My pet hate with these cruise controllers is that they hog the right lanes and will stick there despite being along side another car in the left- sometimes in the blindspot- and sometimes trapping a car that needs to pull out.
I love my cruise control, but its no excuse to switch off the brain.
-- Edited by Rip and Rosie on Saturday 9th of June 2012 07:49:17 AM
I fully agree with what you have written , And that is why we have so many driver changing lane all the time because they are on cruise control and has soon they get to a car that maybe driving a little slower can't turn off the cruise control we must pass , come to a bend in the road that should taking at 80KPH the cruise control is set at 100 KPH next thing they are having trouble keeping the car on the road. Then the story goes what a bad road it is camber not right
sandsmere said
01:28 PM Jun 9, 2012
Very good post pipes .
100% correct I reckon .
jimricho said
02:34 PM Jun 9, 2012
I like cruise control and find that it significantly reduces driver fatigue. But it should only be used in appropriate conditions. Winding roads, wet roads, hilly roads, heavy traffic etc are not appropriate conditions.
pauline said
02:43 PM Jun 9, 2012
I so totally agree with what Pipes has said, I really do believe c/c is a very dangerous accessory in a vehicle, if you are in full control of a car you have to use your brain and your foot on the pedal to control the speed you are doing............I feel that should a driver doze off the 1st thing that would happen is your foot would come off the accelerator and maybe just maybe the speed easing off would hopefully jolt the driver awake long enough to hopefully bring a very dangerous situation under control, just my thoughts on it anyway.
Dougwe said
03:13 PM Jun 9, 2012
I love my Cruise Control as well but only on open straight roads and never in built up areas or freeways. I have had it suggested and I think I have read on here somewhere not to use it when towing a van or similar.
Gerty Dancer said
04:44 PM Jun 9, 2012
Cruise control and towing a caravan dont go together.
Roving-Dutchy said
09:17 PM Jun 9, 2012
I have driven many tens of thousands of K's using cruise control when towing and never encountered a problem because of cruise control being set, but don't use in hilly or winding roads, even in my everyday driving it will be in constant use.
If I was to buy another car would probably not buy it if it didn't have cruise control
You have just as much chance of drifting off to sleep with or without CC and I don't think that if you do drift off your foot will come of the accelerator.
I also find CC very handy in 40k school zones, as you can pay full attention to whats happening on the road instead of contantly looking down at the speedo.
Then again if you are not comfortable using CC its best that you don't use same.
Jack Mac said
11:25 PM Jun 9, 2012
When, if, I find that my right foot doesn't work I'll give up driving. I have never owned a car with cruise control but have driven plenty and it does make you lazy. The only advantage I can see is that you can't exceed the speed limit inadvertantly, not really a problem towing.
If your foot gets tired it's time to pull over.
Landfall said
11:30 PM Jun 9, 2012
Bollocks!
As a professional driving instructor, I have to ask?
When are we going to stop blaming everything else, but our own driving skills?
Nobody forces you to switch on the Cruise Control. If you cannot control it, don't use it. Not rocket science.
The vehicle ran off the road because some jerk was not educated/proficient enough to control it. Simple.
There are no votes in driver education, therfore nobody will take it seriously at a government level.
If the same number of defence personell was being wiped out in Afghanistan, the would be on hell of an outcry.
On the roads, it's an "accident."
No its not, its poor driving education.
Driving long distances with Cruise Control, relieves one apsect of needing to concentrate on the right foot, relieves cramp, etc and should let the driver concentrate on the road ahead.
Stop blaming everything/everyone else and look in the mirror, that's the person responsible for driving the vehicle.
Dusty
rockylizard said
11:38 PM Jun 9, 2012
Keith19837 wrote:
---SNIP--- My current (and ex 'plod') experience has been that 'skills' are down. I frequently see younger drivers by the roadside with a puncture who genuinely don't even know where the spare is when it's not fitted under the boot floor (under chassis fitting etc). Or unable to cope with sudden small obstacles etc. remember an article which showed that the average driver has up to 80% of the information and conditions that a jumbo jet pilot has when landing. But how many of us really check our instruments (oil, temp, rpms and fuel ) regularly. Check our rear and side mirrors regularly or drive looking much further ahead than just the car or two in front. I know of very few people that conduct a pre drive check of just the basics, (tyres, wheel nuts, lights and warnng clusters) or do a 'running commentary' of conditions around, behind or ahead of them. Yet these things used to be done (to a greater or lesser extent) in the days before ANCAAP and 'safety' features as part of daily driving. For what it's worth.
Gday...
I believe the problem is definitely not the so-called "driver aids" - eg ABS, Traction Control, Dynamic Stability Control. The problem is as you have actually stated Keith19837.
The level of skill a person needs to obtain a learner's permit, "P" Licence and then "Full" licence are not taught at all in the existing process that provides these "licences to kill". The system tests a person's ability to negotative a vehicle at speeds that rarely exceed 70kph around suburban streets which they have practiced. The Victorian system of "so many hours of driving recorded in the log book" assumes the learner has been under the tutelage of "a responsible adult" and has actually successfully encountered the wide variety of driving conditions one would expect when driving.
The fault of the road toll is not the ANCAP ratings and/or the features that ensure a high ANCAP score.
It is Driver Education. That means drivers MUST be taught how to actually drive and control a vehicle - which is more dangerous than any firearm ... just look at how many are killed by motor vehicles and how many are killed by firearms each year.
Until we make road law a part of the Year 10 and/or 11 curriculum with a pass of 90% required and then introduce what used to be called Advanced Driving Techniques during the Learner's Permit stage and BEFORE a licence to kill/drive is issued.
The reason a 'stricter, skill-based driving instruction system' has not been widely supported over the decades just shows how little the community values life and property.
(stepping down orf me soapbox now)
Cheers - John
rockylizard said
11:46 PM Jun 9, 2012
Gday...
and another thing
I was taught by a friend's father way back when I was initially learning to drive a vehicle to always "employ POWER" before getting into a vehicle and driving off.
P - petrol (make sure you have enough)
O - oil (make sure the level is where it should be)
W - water (make sure the level is where it should be and hoses are OK)
E - electrics (check ALL the lights work - and the fan/alternator belts are in good nick)
R - rubber (make sure the pressures are correct and the tyres have sufficient tread and no damage)
This means that the POWER items need to be checked EVERY time you went for a drive - or at least once a week.
I still employ POWER today - some 50 years on - as do all my kids.
Cheers - JOhn
Cruising Granny said
01:05 AM Jun 10, 2012
I hate cruise control! I feel out of control at the wheel of these vehicles. I don't have it in my car, but I tried it once in another vehicle and didn't last very long. I also drive manual rather than auto for a similar reason. I like to drive the vehicle in my control. It's personal choice, but in all the kms I have done I still prefer to drive my vehicle. Right lane hoggers and tail gaters are the bane of other motorists. And as Landfall already mentioned, it's poor driving skills which cause CRASHES. They are not accidents. It's a bit like saying guns kill people, when we all know it's people who kill people. Drive your vehicle according to conditions as carefully as you know how, and allow for the other bast'd's stupidity. Please use your mirrors.
justcruisin01 said
04:12 AM Jun 10, 2012
I have worked in a business for about 15yrs where they had a repair & service workshop, A smash repair , Tilt tray service with the police towing contract, & a recking yard.
As many of the crashed cars were off loaded into the workshop section untill they were processed we often had to help people unload their belongings from their car. Also some of the towins I done myself, as a result of this I got to speak to the victoms & got into the habit of asking just what had happened as we know all the roads around the area.
Beleive it or not, there were two consistant answers, First was a shrug of the shoulders with no reply & second was the same with a I dont know.
Now many of these people of who survived were again driving a friends car or a hire car, had not worked out what they had done wrong, unbeleivable.
I have actually suggested to a few, due to their attitude that they should have a think about it before they kill them selves the next time around.
JC.
Cruising Granny said
05:15 AM Jun 10, 2012
Speeding, distraction and arrogance could be the answer. As a result of a distraction, I shortened a little red Toyota in Cairns with my large Landcruiser. The distraction? A group of men, huddled behind a car carrier, ogling a red Mustang. No wonder a girl get distracted. Well, the blokes were huddling towards the road. I slowed down, checked out the 'stang, and looked up. Doing 50 KPH the little car was waiting to turn right about 100 metres in front of me. I hit the brake pedal and hung on, as my Landcruiser skated towards the back bumper and number plate of the little red car. All because I was distracted by a Mustang. Tricked you. You all thought I was distracted by the blokes. Nah! No one was hurt thankfully, the insurance covered the damage, and all is well. But it was distraction, and only distraction which caused me to shorted the little red car. Distraction killed a young Asian driver at the traffic lights adjacent to this caravan park. She did a right turn against the arrow, and was cleaned up by a truck. Now the truck driver has to live with that memory. Everything we do on the road affects someone else.
jonathan said
07:15 AM Jun 10, 2012
.. Well said .. Dusty !!
( its difficult to legislate against lunacy ... )
-- Edited by jonathan on Sunday 10th of June 2012 07:17:05 AM
jimricho said
08:35 AM Jun 10, 2012
In NSW getting a licence requires logging (I think) 120 hours on "L"s. That's twice the log book hours required for an unrestricted pilot's licence!
The real issue is quality of instruction not quantity. It's easy for politicians to take the easy path of just increasing the hours without addressing the real issues.
Quality professional instruction could turn out a safe driver with a fraction of the hours now required. New drivers who can't afford professional instruction should adjust their financial priorities, they would soon do this if they had no choice.
Learner drivers should not be permitted to carry any passengers including their parents (other than a qualified instructor). However a limited amount of solo driving at an appropriate stage would be beneficial.
(disclosure: In a previous life many years ago I was a part-time flying instructor)
-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 10th of June 2012 08:47:34 AM
brickies said
01:38 PM Jun 10, 2012
I once did a driving course conducted by the police head driving instructor who told us lots more crashes happen with their Police car on normal patrol then under lights and siren , the reason when under lights and siren the officer is completely alert at all times and in control of the vehicle
Dougwe said
01:42 PM Jun 10, 2012
Now come on Chrissy, do you really think we believe that story about not checking out the blokes?????????????
Brenda and Alan said
04:28 PM Jun 10, 2012
It's so easy to get distracted, not just by things or people outside your car. I constantly remind myself not to fiddle with the aircon, grope for a tissue in my bag, reach for my sunnies, etc. when on a bend (I live in the country and the road is very windy) but wait until I reach a straight section. I have caught myself drifting across the double lines on a bend a few times. It also amazes me that car manufacturers are allowed to advertise their product in such a way that they emphasise the speed and power; and why make a car that will do 200kph when you can't legally do that speed anyway.
rockylizard said
05:12 PM Jun 10, 2012
jimricho wrote:
---SNIP---The real issue is quality of instruction not quantity. It's easy for politicians to take the easy path of just increasing the hours without addressing the real issues.
Quality professional instruction could turn out a safe driver with a fraction of the hours now required. New drivers who can't afford professional instruction should adjust their financial priorities, they would soon do this if they had no choice.---SNIP---
Gday...
It was not that long ago that a group was again advocating the introduction of "quality professional instruction" (such as Defensive Driving Techniques) had determined, in their submission to the Victorian Govt, that a levy of just $2 per licence, on existing holders as well as each new licence, would cover the cost of providing the mandatory attendance for all "L" drivers to be put through the training before a full licence was issued.
That submision has been made each decade since the 1970s - the cost was only $1 in the original submission.
The proposal has never received sufficient support from any of the Govt's - irrespective of their 'colour. Such a 'stricter, skill-based driving instruction system' has not even been widely supported by the general populace over the decades - it just shows how little the community values life and property.
Additionally, I have always been an advocate for the introduction of a 're-test' for ALL drivers at least each five years - test of knowledge of current road rules and a driving test assuring bad habits are identified and addressed - as well as competancy.
As another poster stated - if the number of people killed each week were our serving members in overseas conflict or were killed by guns or knives or in fights at home there would be a public outcry.
Cheers - John
DandS said
10:09 PM Jun 10, 2012
Originally I wasnt going to comment on this topic but decided to throw in my observations and experience.
My job is driving heavy vehicles in Sydney.I drive buses and have done so for quite sometime (now only part time), I was also an excutive officer with the associate union, working closely with a number of state Govt depts including RTA, police and OTSI (Office of Transport Safety Investigations).My own experiences and observations of what I see and have encountered on the road is that is doesnt matter how much training and educatingpeople to drive, they will often take risks that endanger themselves and other road users. The risks I see drivers take daily on the roads is frightening. Often the risk results in an accident or worse.
My personal experiences in recent times have been: motor cyclist, ignore red light and left an imprint of himself and bike in the side of the bus. Truck ignoring speed limit, result was an accident, and me ending up with glass in my eyes and the truck left the scene. Motorist attempts to cheat in a transit lane, collides with bus and leaves the scene with his wrecked car, I have 3 injured passengers, one of which required stitches. Another heavy vehicle being driven recklessly, I am showered with glass as the vehicle tears out the front drivers side of the bus. Luckily my injuries were only a couple of glass cuts on my arm.
The vehicles I drive are equiped with up to 6 state of the art video cameras, covering almost 360deg view around the bus. They are used to determine exactly how an accident or incident occured, and identify rego numbers of other vehicles. What is surprising is when viewing these videos how many risks or rules broken a motorist has made leading up to the accident.
Not so long back we had the heartbreaking experience of having the police come to our home one afternoon to tell us that a family member had been killed in an accident less than 2 ks from our home. The other motorist at fault and charged.
My personal feelings are, some drivers take a risk or drive wrong and they know is wrong before they do it but just dont give a hoot. Most people are capable drivers, but some will always take that risk. Training and education would be hard pressed to change this. Sure mechanical problems can cause an accident. But using a feature on a motor vehicle as an excuse is not an excuse.
Daryl
-- Edited by DandS on Sunday 10th of June 2012 10:21:47 PM
-- Edited by DandS on Sunday 10th of June 2012 11:09:08 PM
-- Edited by DandS on Sunday 10th of June 2012 11:11:19 PM
Zoomtopz said
12:42 AM Jun 11, 2012
I got to agree with a lot of whats been said .
I reckon , here in most states , we get taught to get a licence .
We DON'T get taught how to drive .
Lots of valid points Pipes , I still classify myself as a Driver . I AM NOT
a Steering wheel attendant . So I drive everywhere , I am AWARE of
school zones , shopping centres . I DO NOT swith off when I am driving .
I am a Veteran , did you know there was more people killed on Aussie
roads than there were killed in Vietnam(Service personel that is) .
And it is Not pretty telling a widow & her children her husbands last words.
Cause you don't know if she is blaming you for the accident . He was
overtaking Over Double yellow lines .
I would like you all to think about this -
Most of our cars are waterproof , drive on a dirt road & dust will get in .
Knock off work after working ALL week , head out for th w/end , tired to
start with , got th air on , windows up . After an hour . How much
carbon monoxide has entered th cabin getting even tireder & you don't
even realise it . no wonder people don't know how they crashed .
To give you an idea , IF I were to go back driving Interstate . It would
take me at least 6-8 months to get driving fit . And that would only
be driving/working 12 hrs a day .
That's my 2/-bobs worth
Richo.
Travel Bug said
05:20 AM Jun 11, 2012
When I was learning to drive, I was taught that the most important car part is the nut behind the wheel.
Cruising Granny said
06:10 AM Jun 11, 2012
It seems these days the motor vehicle operator puts their hands on the wheel, the foot on the pedal and the brain in neutral. I observe really silly things on the road every time I leave home. Driving a higher vehicle does have its advantages when looking further ahead. I look around in case I have to take evasive action if the scenario gets messy.
Zoomtopz said
12:22 PM Jun 11, 2012
Living near & driving on th Pacific Hwy , NSW . I don't know what everybody
is complaining about . Probably because they can't get in their vehicle , set
th cc @ 110k & do their 550k trip in 5hrs . My right foot is th cc in my vehicle.
I don't know who caused th accident @ Urunga , BUT , nobody has blamed the
driver of th ute that WAS 4 to 5 times over th blood alcohol limit . I heard
they caught several more in th following weeks @ Urunga , over th limit
before they got to th highway .
At the moment I am teaching my son to drive . He is doing pretty well .
BUT he is also going to have'driving school' lessons . My idea of getting a
license SHOULD Be -
L plate - The 120hrs , over 12 months is ok with me .
Red P plate - MUST Do Defensive driver training course before green P's.
Green P plate - MUST Do Advanced driver training course before Being
eligible for Full licence . Bit tuff you may ask , tougher in a wheel-chair as
a young-un . Tougher on family burying a young-un .
Richo
rockylizard said
05:10 PM Jun 11, 2012
Gday...
Zoomtopz - ya right and I agree with ya.
The examples you have cited in your posts are not simply that 'trained drivers' take silly risks - it is actually UNtrained drivers who do not UNDERSTAND the risks and think because they are sittin' on a bit of plastic in their wallet they are a competent, trained driver - and full of their own self-importance.
I said earlier - Until we make road law a part of the Year 10 and/or 11 curriculum with a pass of 90% required. there will be little change.
I believe we need to get our younguns BEFORE they actually get behind the wheel so we can instill "Driver Attitude" and an understanding of the devastating power to kill of a motor vehicle - of themselves and others.
It won't happen - Govts will not allocate funds to it and community have insufficient interest and therefore will not support it.
In my younger days I was heavily involved in motorsport - circuit racing and rallying. Yet the only place I have felt I could die is whenever I drive on the open road where there are 100s of inattentive, untrained and unfocussed drivers heading toward me, coming at me from either side and some from behind.
Training is only part of the solution - it requires development of the right attitude to driving.
Having said that, and given our overall society at the moment, I guess we cannot get people to have the right attitude to drinking, or violence, or consideration of others in general life.
Oh well - back to me campfire in the bush where I keep away from the main roads as much as possible and enjoying my nomadic lifestye.
Cheers - John
rockylizard said
06:45 PM Jun 11, 2012
Gday...
and in light of all the above comments on this topic .....
G'Day Pipes. I, for one, believe you have a very valid point. We are in danger of losing our 'driving skills' with such things as A.B.S. Traction Control etc etc. As for Cruise Control, your point is well made. I further believe that one can do much better re fuel economy without C.C. The C.C. doesn't see approaching hills and when it finally 'sees' them, it drops the gears down and the revolutions 'up' more than is required. My current (and ex 'plod') experience has been that 'skills' are down. I frequently see younger drivers by the roadside with a puncture who genuinely don't even know where the spare is when it's not fitted under the boot floor (under chassis fitting etc). Or unable to cope with sudden small obstacles etc. remember an article which showed that the average driver has up to 80% of the information and conditions that a jumbo jet pilot has when landing. But how many of us really check our instruments (oil, temp, rpms and fuel ) regularly. Check our rear and side mirrors regularly or drive looking much further ahead than just the car or two in front. I know of very few people that conduct a pre drive check of just the basics, (tyres, wheel nuts, lights and warnng clusters) or do a 'running commentary' of conditions around, behind or ahead of them. Yet these things used to be done (to a greater or lesser extent) in the days before ANCAAP and 'safety' features as part of daily driving. For what it's worth.
-- Edited by Keith19837 on Friday 8th of June 2012 10:10:55 PM
So many times the radio/TV tells us that, "The vehicle ran off the road, and hit a tree. Police/ Ambulance staff advise that the driver was killed."
It happens all over the country, and having had over fifty years of local, intrastate and interstate driving, I think I know, possibly, what one of the major cause of this type of accidents is.
A couple of years ago, over a period of six months, I wrote to every major motoring body in the country. As far as I know, the letter was not published in their customers magazines.
This is it.
No offence, but. I think that the average motorist is not really used to any form of long distance driving. Dashing around town, off to work, picking up shopping or the kids is part of most drivers day. Then they find that they, for a number of reasons, have to drive an unusually long distance. Work, a weekend break, deliver goods a hundred K's away, etc. etc.
As most of us know, todays modern vehicles are certainly both comfortable, and quiet. Driver sets off along the road. There's not a lot of traffic. Driver adjusts the heating/aircon (?) Next, the radio/CD player is switched on. Driver then brings the vehicle up to the speed limit. (110, WA) Then driver shakes the bum around a bit, settles into the ride with music, and then turns on what I think is the most dangerous accessory in the vehicle,....The cruise control !
At this point, I think that the driver has lost 90% control of the vehicle. I have watched drivers almost doze off as a result. It can, and often does, result in what is known as, "The hundred yard stare" Not unlike the way you may feel in a plane, bus or car, when a passenger. Drivers can so easily, "lose it".
Result. The driver doesn't notice, and the "cruise" doesn't "see" the bend ahead and the sign which says, 80 KPH. I believe, that in that split second , by the time the driver realises the speed is wrong, their first reaction is, naturally, hit the brakes, which turns the cruise control OFF. The vehicle goes into a skid, slides off the road, and inevitably, hits a tree. Please don't let the "cruise" control you. It's just the way I see it.
Regards
Pipes.
I have used the F3 frequently to travel between Newcastle and Sydney.
Weekdays in the peak, regular commuters travel in a specific way. They keep to the speed limit, minimise lane changes and drive to the conditions. Mostly the traffic moves as an entity.
Same trip on weekends, the sightseers are out, giving the car a good run. Speed is up, lane changes add to the fun. The race is on. Tailgaters heaven.
My pet hate with these cruise controllers is that they hog the right lanes and will stick there despite being along side another car in the left- sometimes in the blindspot- and sometimes trapping a car that needs to pull out.
I love my cruise control, but its no excuse to switch off the brain.
-- Edited by Rip and Rosie on Saturday 9th of June 2012 07:49:17 AM
Very good post pipes .
100% correct I reckon .
I love my Cruise Control as well but only on open straight roads and never in built up areas or freeways. I have had it suggested and I think I have read on here somewhere not to use it when towing a van or similar.
I have driven many tens of thousands of K's using cruise control when towing and never encountered a problem because of cruise control being set, but don't use in hilly or winding roads, even in my everyday driving it will be in constant use.
If I was to buy another car would probably not buy it if it didn't have cruise control
You have just as much chance of drifting off to sleep with or without CC and I don't think that if you do drift off your foot will come of the accelerator.
I also find CC very handy in 40k school zones, as you can pay full attention to whats happening on the road instead of contantly looking down at the speedo.
Then again if you are not comfortable using CC its best that you don't use same.
When, if, I find that my right foot doesn't work I'll give up driving. I have never owned a car with cruise control but have driven plenty and it does make you lazy. The only advantage I can see is that you can't exceed the speed limit inadvertantly, not really a problem towing.
If your foot gets tired it's time to pull over.
Bollocks!
As a professional driving instructor, I have to ask?
When are we going to stop blaming everything else, but our own driving skills?
Nobody forces you to switch on the Cruise Control. If you cannot control it, don't use it. Not rocket science.
The vehicle ran off the road because some jerk was not educated/proficient enough to control it. Simple.
There are no votes in driver education, therfore nobody will take it seriously at a government level.
If the same number of defence personell was being wiped out in Afghanistan, the would be on hell of an outcry.
On the roads, it's an "accident."
No its not, its poor driving education.
Driving long distances with Cruise Control, relieves one apsect of needing to concentrate on the right foot, relieves cramp, etc and should let the driver concentrate on the road ahead.
Stop blaming everything/everyone else and look in the mirror, that's the person responsible for driving the vehicle.
Dusty
Gday...
I believe the problem is definitely not the so-called "driver aids" - eg ABS, Traction Control, Dynamic Stability Control. The problem is as you have actually stated Keith19837.
The level of skill a person needs to obtain a learner's permit, "P" Licence and then "Full" licence are not taught at all in the existing process that provides these "licences to kill". The system tests a person's ability to negotative a vehicle at speeds that rarely exceed 70kph around suburban streets which they have practiced. The Victorian system of "so many hours of driving recorded in the log book" assumes the learner has been under the tutelage of "a responsible adult" and has actually successfully encountered the wide variety of driving conditions one would expect when driving.
The fault of the road toll is not the ANCAP ratings and/or the features that ensure a high ANCAP score.
It is Driver Education. That means drivers MUST be taught how to actually drive and control a vehicle - which is more dangerous than any firearm ... just look at how many are killed by motor vehicles and how many are killed by firearms each year.
Until we make road law a part of the Year 10 and/or 11 curriculum with a pass of 90% required and then introduce what used to be called Advanced Driving Techniques during the Learner's Permit stage and BEFORE a licence to kill/drive is issued.
The reason a 'stricter, skill-based driving instruction system' has not been widely supported over the decades just shows how little the community values life and property.
(stepping down orf me soapbox now
)
Cheers - John
Gday...
and another thing
I was taught by a friend's father way back when I was initially learning to drive a vehicle to always "employ POWER" before getting into a vehicle and driving off.
P - petrol (make sure you have enough)
O - oil (make sure the level is where it should be)
W - water (make sure the level is where it should be and hoses are OK)
E - electrics (check ALL the lights work - and the fan/alternator belts are in good nick)
R - rubber (make sure the pressures are correct and the tyres have sufficient tread and no damage)
This means that the POWER items need to be checked EVERY time you went for a drive - or at least once a week.
I still employ POWER today - some 50 years on - as do all my kids.
Cheers - JOhn
I like to drive the vehicle in my control. It's personal choice, but in all the kms I have done I still prefer to drive my vehicle.
Right lane hoggers and tail gaters are the bane of other motorists.
And as Landfall already mentioned, it's poor driving skills which cause CRASHES. They are not accidents.
It's a bit like saying guns kill people, when we all know it's people who kill people.
Drive your vehicle according to conditions as carefully as you know how, and allow for the other bast'd's stupidity. Please use your mirrors.
I have worked in a business for about 15yrs where they had a repair & service workshop, A smash repair , Tilt tray service with the police towing contract, & a recking yard.
As many of the crashed cars were off loaded into the workshop section untill they were processed we often had to help people unload their belongings from their car. Also some of the towins I done myself, as a result of this I got to speak to the victoms & got into the habit of asking just what had happened as we know all the roads around the area.
Beleive it or not, there were two consistant answers, First was a shrug of the shoulders with no reply & second was the same with a I dont know.
Now many of these people of who survived were again driving a friends car or a hire car, had not worked out what they had done wrong, unbeleivable.
I have actually suggested to a few, due to their attitude that they should have a think about it before they kill them selves the next time around.
JC.
As a result of a distraction, I shortened a little red Toyota in Cairns with my large Landcruiser.
The distraction? A group of men, huddled behind a car carrier, ogling a red Mustang. No wonder a girl get distracted.
Well, the blokes were huddling towards the road. I slowed down, checked out the 'stang, and looked up. Doing 50 KPH the little car was waiting to turn right about 100 metres in front of me.
I hit the brake pedal and hung on, as my Landcruiser skated towards the back bumper and number plate of the little red car.
All because I was distracted by a Mustang. Tricked you. You all thought I was distracted by the blokes. Nah!
No one was hurt thankfully, the insurance covered the damage, and all is well.
But it was distraction, and only distraction which caused me to shorted the little red car.
Distraction killed a young Asian driver at the traffic lights adjacent to this caravan park. She did a right turn against the arrow, and was cleaned up by a truck. Now the truck driver has to live with that memory.
Everything we do on the road affects someone else.
.. Well said .. Dusty !!
( its difficult to legislate against lunacy ... )
-- Edited by jonathan on Sunday 10th of June 2012 07:17:05 AM
In NSW getting a licence requires logging (I think) 120 hours on "L"s. That's twice the log book hours required for an unrestricted pilot's licence!
The real issue is quality of instruction not quantity. It's easy for politicians to take the easy path of just increasing the hours without addressing the real issues.
Quality professional instruction could turn out a safe driver with a fraction of the hours now required. New drivers who can't afford professional instruction should adjust their financial priorities, they would soon do this if they had no choice.
Learner drivers should not be permitted to carry any passengers including their parents (other than a qualified instructor). However a limited amount of solo driving at an appropriate stage would be beneficial.
(disclosure: In a previous life many years ago I was a part-time flying instructor)
-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 10th of June 2012 08:47:34 AM
Now come on Chrissy, do you really think we believe that story about not checking out the blokes?????????????
Gday...
It was not that long ago that a group was again advocating the introduction of "quality professional instruction" (such as Defensive Driving Techniques) had determined, in their submission to the Victorian Govt, that a levy of just $2 per licence, on existing holders as well as each new licence, would cover the cost of providing the mandatory attendance for all "L" drivers to be put through the training before a full licence was issued.
That submision has been made each decade since the 1970s - the cost was only $1 in the original submission.
The proposal has never received sufficient support from any of the Govt's - irrespective of their 'colour. Such a 'stricter, skill-based driving instruction system' has not even been widely supported by the general populace over the decades - it just shows how little the community values life and property.
Additionally, I have always been an advocate for the introduction of a 're-test' for ALL drivers at least each five years - test of knowledge of current road rules and a driving test assuring bad habits are identified and addressed - as well as competancy.
As another poster stated - if the number of people killed each week were our serving members in overseas conflict or were killed by guns or knives or in fights at home there would be a public outcry.
Cheers - John
Originally I wasnt going to comment on this topic but decided to throw in my observations and experience.
My job is driving heavy vehicles in Sydney.I drive buses and have done so for quite sometime (now only part time), I was also an excutive officer with the associate union, working closely with a number of state Govt depts including RTA, police and OTSI (Office of Transport Safety Investigations). My own experiences and observations of what I see and have encountered on the road is that is doesnt matter how much training and educating people to drive, they will often take risks that endanger themselves and other road users. The risks I see drivers take daily on the roads is frightening. Often the risk results in an accident or worse.
My personal experiences in recent times have been: motor cyclist, ignore red light and left an imprint of himself and bike in the side of the bus. Truck ignoring speed limit, result was an accident, and me ending up with glass in my eyes and the truck left the scene. Motorist attempts to cheat in a transit lane, collides with bus and leaves the scene with his wrecked car, I have 3 injured passengers, one of which required stitches. Another heavy vehicle being driven recklessly, I am showered with glass as the vehicle tears out the front drivers side of the bus. Luckily my injuries were only a couple of glass cuts on my arm.
The vehicles I drive are equiped with up to 6 state of the art video cameras, covering almost 360deg view around the bus. They are used to determine exactly how an accident or incident occured, and identify rego numbers of other vehicles. What is surprising is when viewing these videos how many risks or rules broken a motorist has made leading up to the accident.
Not so long back we had the heartbreaking experience of having the police come to our home one afternoon to tell us that a family member had been killed in an accident less than 2 ks from our home. The other motorist at fault and charged.
My personal feelings are, some drivers take a risk or drive wrong and they know is wrong before they do it but just dont give a hoot. Most people are capable drivers, but some will always take that risk. Training and education would be hard pressed to change this. Sure mechanical problems can cause an accident. But using a feature on a motor vehicle as an excuse is not an excuse.
Daryl
-- Edited by DandS on Sunday 10th of June 2012 10:21:47 PM
-- Edited by DandS on Sunday 10th of June 2012 11:09:08 PM
-- Edited by DandS on Sunday 10th of June 2012 11:11:19 PM
I got to agree with a lot of whats been said .
I reckon , here in most states , we get taught to get a licence .
We DON'T get taught how to drive .
Lots of valid points Pipes , I still classify myself as a Driver . I AM NOT
a Steering wheel attendant . So I drive everywhere , I am AWARE of
school zones , shopping centres . I DO NOT swith off when I am driving .
I am a Veteran , did you know there was more people killed on Aussie
roads than there were killed in Vietnam(Service personel that is) .
And it is Not pretty telling a widow & her children her husbands last words.
Cause you don't know if she is blaming you for the accident . He was
overtaking Over Double yellow lines .
I would like you all to think about this -
Most of our cars are waterproof , drive on a dirt road & dust will get in .
Knock off work after working ALL week , head out for th w/end , tired to
start with , got th air on , windows up . After an hour . How much
carbon monoxide has entered th cabin getting even tireder & you don't
even realise it . no wonder people don't know how they crashed .
To give you an idea , IF I were to go back driving Interstate . It would
take me at least 6-8 months to get driving fit . And that would only
be driving/working 12 hrs a day .
That's my 2/-bobs worth
Richo.
When I was learning to drive, I was taught that the most important car part is the nut behind the wheel.
I observe really silly things on the road every time I leave home. Driving a higher vehicle does have its advantages when looking further ahead. I look around in case I have to take evasive action if the scenario gets messy.
Living near & driving on th Pacific Hwy , NSW . I don't know what everybody
is complaining about . Probably because they can't get in their vehicle , set
th cc @ 110k & do their 550k trip in 5hrs . My right foot is th cc in my vehicle.
I don't know who caused th accident @ Urunga , BUT , nobody has blamed the
driver of th ute that WAS 4 to 5 times over th blood alcohol limit . I heard
they caught several more in th following weeks @ Urunga , over th limit
before they got to th highway .
At the moment I am teaching my son to drive . He is doing pretty well .
BUT he is also going to have'driving school' lessons . My idea of getting a
license SHOULD Be -
L plate - The 120hrs , over 12 months is ok with me .
Red P plate - MUST Do Defensive driver training course before green P's.
Green P plate - MUST Do Advanced driver training course before Being
eligible for Full licence . Bit tuff you may ask , tougher in a wheel-chair as
a young-un . Tougher on family burying a young-un .
Richo
Gday...
Zoomtopz - ya right and I agree with ya.
The examples you have cited in your posts are not simply that 'trained drivers' take silly risks - it is actually UNtrained drivers who do not UNDERSTAND the risks and think because they are sittin' on a bit of plastic in their wallet they are a competent, trained driver - and full of their own self-importance.
I said earlier - Until we make road law a part of the Year 10 and/or 11 curriculum with a pass of 90% required. there will be little change.
I believe we need to get our younguns BEFORE they actually get behind the wheel so we can instill "Driver Attitude" and an understanding of the devastating power to kill of a motor vehicle - of themselves and others.
It won't happen - Govts will not allocate funds to it and community have insufficient interest and therefore will not support it.
In my younger days I was heavily involved in motorsport - circuit racing and rallying. Yet the only place I have felt I could die is whenever I drive on the open road where there are 100s of inattentive, untrained and unfocussed drivers heading toward me, coming at me from either side and some from behind.
Training is only part of the solution - it requires development of the right attitude to driving.
Having said that, and given our overall society at the moment, I guess we cannot get people to have the right attitude to drinking, or violence, or consideration of others in general life.
Oh well - back to me campfire in the bush where I keep away from the main roads as much as possible and enjoying my nomadic lifestye.
Cheers - John
Gday...
and in light of all the above comments on this topic .....
Cheers - John